ZSR Forums

Talk.

Maybe I did something wrong, but it doesn't pan out. Getting the GS is very easy, but then Skyloft is set to after the getting GS and Fi cutscenes. This means that the race has passed. If you try jumping off, you can't call your bird. If you go to where your bird should be, the cage is empty. In addition all cutscenes leading up to the bird (such as zelda, groose, vision as you approach the cave, and zelda after the cave) do not occur. I think it may be impossible to continue as this stands...

Fuck me, why didn't I check WW BiT.

I do not know if this is new, but when you save at a statue in BiT, it will save over the file that you currently have selected in the file selection menu.
Example:
all 3 save files are empty.
I start a new file on slot 1.
I perform BiT on it.
I run to a statue, press A to activate the file selection menu AND the statue menu.
I select slot 2 in the file menu, but I do not start the file, I just click on it once.
I now save in the statue menu.
Now press B and return in the file selection menu.
You will now see that you have saved over slot 2.

This can be done on any slot. So you basically choose which file you want to save your BiT on.

I now have 2 totally clean BiT saves on slot 1 and 2. The creation date says 01/01/2000 12:00a.m.
The name on the file is a blurred shading.

This also makes night early possible, since the NPCs that block the bridge isn't spawned when skyloft is in its BiT state.


______

Here's my attempt at skipping as much as possible in skyloft.
I started out with 3 empty files.

new file (slot 3)
zelda
Save (slot 3)
BiT
BiT Save (slot 2)
Load (slot 2)
Goddess Sword
Groose
Loftwing, save & quit
Load (slot 3)
BiT
BiT save (slot 2)
Load (slot 2)
Emerald Tablet, save & quit
Load (slot 3)
BiT
BiT save (slot 2)
Load (slot 2)

Skips:
-Practice Sword
-Ceremony, Sail Cloth & Fi escorting
-Pouch & Unlocking UI settings

Skipping the ceremony, sail cloth & fi escort should save some time.

So you die while you're in Skyloft to activate BiT? Where can you even do that? Since it sounds like we aren't waiting to get to the waterfall or night.

Fall damage. There is a couple of different spots that has enough height to damage you.

For those who were curious, glitching the GS this way and then grabbing the practice sword does nothing. You maintain the GS :P

As for dying in Skyloft, you can jump from the Goddess Statue area down to the area below where you normally follow Fi to get up. I'm not sure if there's a more effective way or not.

Testrunner, you need to get the gs and then leave right after, without using skyward strike or using the tablet. It works. There are also some side effects.
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I've noticed that 3 goddess chests are active, and their corresponding cubes are gone. The main point is that the deep woods cube is gone, which slows you down for the skip. Also, as soon as you walk in, the goron text for shooting the cube appears, but sadly you won't warp over there.

The 3 chests have the adventure pouch upgrade, heart piece, and seed pouch. This does not enable early slingshot

Alright, I was able to get it to work using the huge drop behind the statue. That seems rather slow, but it doesn't appear to count for time anyway.

I'm not sure about the Zelda cutscene. You can bypass it by going around the back, but you trigger it later anyway. If it won't trigger later if you view it earlier, it seems better to do so, but that sounds unlikely... The next few things make sense, although I just realized that, once you get in BiT mode, it might be better to save that onto Slot 3, then save it onto the empty Slot 2, so you don't have to worry about triggering it again for the other times. Probably a moot point since you would have the cutscene skips in an ideal situation, though.

To explain in case anyone gets confused like I was: The gates block you from getting to the Goddess Sword, but you can get around them by going near the one near the Goddess Statue and jumping off the edge; you reappear on the other side. From there, the Goddess Statue is open; you can walk right in, grab the Goddess Sword and trigger the cutscene where you get the Emerald Tablet. From there, the cutscene that's supposed to trigger right before you get the Goddess Sword happens. After this, you just have to turn around and leave, since when you place the Emerald Tablet, it permanently removes the events that let you get the Loftwing. You can then get into the save behind the waterfall using the Goddess Sword, but the bird won't be there until you speak to Groose, so you have to view that scene first. When you rescue it, you get a chance to save, which you want to do, then load File 3, since File 2 is about to get locked into the race with no other chance to activate BiT. When you go into BiT with File 3 and save onto File 2, all it does is update File 2 with BiT and leaves it otherwise untouched. From there, you can load file 2, and since you're in BiT again, you can go into the Goddess Statue again and this time place the Emerald Tablet. From here, you can save again, and go to File 3 again to activate BiT a third time, but I'm not sure that's a good idea, since the Adventure Pouch is kinda important. Maybe it's faster to get it later?

Seems that not getting the Adventure Pouch doesn't erase your inventory, but it makes the number of slots 0. I played further from there and went to the Sealed Temple; the bottle there automatically got sent to the Item Check. When I tried to pick it up from there, all eight slots were tan, as if you just hadn't gotten them yet. This makes me think that if you just need one slot for later, it might work to just get one from Beedle, but they're kinda expensive, so it seems unlikely that that could be faster than getting the four for free. Or if that one from the chest works...

First of all, This glitch is a lot of fun, and I'd love to do it in a run. But I don't know if it saves any time. If it's segmented, you can't get the goddess cube skip. Not having the sail cloth may or may not save time. The main concern is imprissoned. You have to go down 4 times. If you just jump down, you'll die (pretty sure it'll do 4 hearts then 2 hearts fall). So you need to walk the spiral around? I guess I'll do more testing

Well saving while in BiT with a blank file in slot 3 has an interesting effect. It makes the slot you were using a blank file, but it keeps the items you get when you save. Hard to explain, just try it out.

You just wrote everything that It tested in the IRC a few hours ago lol. Every single thing you did. xD

Anyway, the fastest way I've found to activate BiT is to jump down to the right of the kid that wants you to roll into a tree.
climb back up, and jump down again. And then continue like that. It is relatively fast to do this, 15 seconds for each jump at most. Probably less?

Skipping the ceremony, sailcloth & fi escort quest saves a lot of time. That is basically the only useful BiT in skyloft that I can think of. Or is it faster to skip Practice Sword aswell? I actually don't know. But I can't imagine that it would be faster to skip it.

Also, if you unlock a new pouch slot after skipping the pouch, you still do not have access to the - button. You can however get items there. The problem is that you can't use them. :p

You skip like at least 5 minutes if you BiT past the sail cloth. probably more. I am pretty sure it is saves time, even if you have to walk around at the imprisoned.

I have no idea what that even means. I've played with a blank slot 3 a lot. What do you mean by "keeps the items"?
People is really confusing when it comes to BiT.

When I was testing last night, I dunno if it's just me, but the GS skyward strike seemed to be charging at MS speed... It's definitely the GS though... Maybe it's a hero mode thing and I just haven't noticed?

Also guys don't forget BiT Warping to Skyloft after level 1 and 2. That'll also save like few minutes.

Have file 3 a blank, unused hero save. Load file 1, BiT, save, reload with no screen. Get the GS and save. Now restart the system. The file looks like a blank save, but after you load it, you will have GS, even though you watch opening cutscene.

NewGame+, lol! haha.
But really,  if we find ways to keep more stuff we may actually get a ng+ category.

CloudMax, I was mostly explaining the things you said in your timeline so they would make sense to people who hadn't seen it for themselves. I was going to mention that, but it looks like I forgot.

So you're saying, go BiT, revert to normal in the outer area, then just go see Groose and work from there getting the Training Sword along the way, only skipping to get into the Goddess Sword after rescuing the Loftwing? That does sound like it could be faster, although that depends on the applications of what Abahbob found.

If the - button doesn't work, it sounds like we need to get the original Adventure Pouch to use bottles later. Do we know if it's faster/possible to do the third BiT and get it later?

This might already be NewGame+, since it involves loading position and a glitched state from another file.

Hm... Looking at TestRunner's post, I'm wondering what applications the instant warp to Skyloft could have. You could skip a few cutscenes, and definitely screw things up if you warped in the middle of something like Bokoblin Base...

I haven't tested, but  think BiT Warping in the Bobokin base will result in a lock and unable to finish the Eldin song. But if it doesn't, and you can warp back down to any bird statue, you could probably skip any number of items.

Also, I dunno if it's NG+ cause you're using black files. All the manipulations are done with changes you made during the run. Although is it's true and we can find a way to keep all itemsat start, a NG+ run would be pretty hilarious.

That's what I meant, screw things up for the worse. But that would be damn interesting if you could skip more things... Seems like you might need most of those items regardless, but you could probably go back and get them more quickly later.

Using the blank file may or may not matter. It doesn't affect the time on the original file, so if we're going by that and excluding time spent on the BiT file, it probably doesn't matter that it's new.

Bobokin base seems so unlikely. If you could warp down, wouldn't you warp into the normal map? I'll try that once I get there on my TS skip save.

Whatever we do, it seems like it's mostly going to be limited to Skyloft. Of course, Skyloft is where Sky Keep is...

Yea, I guess you can also BitWarp from lavius.

Also lots of tricks for skipping random items? I smell a puzzle race.

Anyone have a file where they have Sky Keep open or they've dropped it onto the Sealed Grounds? Seems worth looking into how BiT reacts to that.

I seems that using a BiT to skip the pouch and shield is probably a poor idea. Both are pretty needed, and only a few room transitions and a Fi text are extra. The time is takes to BiT anyways, you probably get off the island slower.

Still unsure about skipping the Practice Sword, the times are pretty similar, but I think the BiT may be slower.

When you do BiT, and reload the file normally, you'll be placed in your room (you'll need to skip the four opening cutscenes, so useless on normal mode). This means that BitWarp is even easier, as you don't need to perform a BiT again to warp, just S+Q.

So I just found this strange glitch involving BiT which could lead to some breaks if people are willing to test.

It's basically a way to appear in strange places on the map when loading a file instead of at the save statue where saved. in maps with more than one save point, they will all warp you to the same places

I'm doing it by:
1)Having a save file on slot 1 saved in the map where I want to appear in the strange place.
2)Using a corrupt save file on slot save slot 3 with the corrupt heart, causing BiT from the instant death on file load
3)in BiT, load the 1st file and save at an owl statue in the same A press.

This is what I'm using to cause the glitch to happen, I'm not sure what is neccessary though.

so far I've tried (all using a save file currently at the earth temple besides the desert one):
Inside sealed grounds (normal) - appear OoB under the map (can't get in bounds)
Outsie sealed grounds (normal) - OoB under the map
Faron woods - appear in bounds next to the vine used to jump to The elder
Deep woods - Oob under the map
Main desert area (after upgrading beetle) - land in so me sink sand without a way to get to land
Earth temple - Land in lava and keep respawning and landing in it until death. Death takes link to the propper statue he should be at.
Skyview temple (first save statue) - in-between unloaded rooms. Got into OoB water once somehow in the 1st main room but couldn't get there again. Jumpslash from constant falling wil load two rooms beside you.
inside the digging mitts place -spawn pretty much above where the save statue is

try different save statues in temples because room loading will effect things, although you will always appear in the same spot on the map. I only tried the first two save statues in the earth temple so try more of those too.

The skyview one should skip the first two rooms as it warps you into the 3rd room, if only I can work out how to get into the OoB water again...

if you find anything or have questions, let me know.

Things I want to try:

-Eldin captured
-triforce place
-cistern
-loading off save prompts


Skips:

saving at first save statue in eldin - takes you right above the digging mitts place, skipping a big chunk of eldin (all of the lower part)

Heres a sweet skip. Do the thing GAS talked about at the first bird in Eldin. Skips straight into the little place with the mitts :D

It seems to me that there are some instances where BiT will not work. Three times I can remember, the cave in skyloft, Demise, and at the beginning of the bokoblin capture. The only thing these have in common is this: continuing doesn’t actually put you at a bird statue. It definitely needs to be tested in more places, but for now I’m going to say this: BiT won’t work if continuing will not put you at a bird statue.

And this warping is interesting. My guess is it's using the xyz position of the skyloft bird statue, but loading a different map.

Shit's getting fucking weird.

Ok here's what went down...

I had 3 saves, one a near completed save in slot one, the second was a newish hero save, and the third was a "new" save which originally had my newish hero save on it, but i copied it over to slot two and deleted slot 3.

With this configuration, I died and gameovered while in Title Screen BiT, then chose to continue. When I continued, bat's door by the graveyard opened up. I dropped down and went inside. Walking in I instantly received 5094 rupees... the EXACT NUMBER of rupees i had on FILE ONE.

Also, through some bizarre sequence of events, I've managed to corrupt file one so that it starts out IN BIT.

TheOnlyOne: Argh that's a shame. Definitely means BiT won't apply to AC big key. I was wondering why BiT was sometimes not working, but i guess it makes sense now (kind of).

mzxrules: Woah! I'm baffled... sounds like you somehow loaded from File 1 instead of File 3 in BiT.

To GAS's: It probably places you at at the 0,0,0 of each map? That seems like it could be. And holy balls batman, starts in BiT? does that mean the actual game is forward in time?  :D

BiT as in the title screen version? Damn, this is all getting so weird. Anyone able to record this stuff? I can record, but not for the next few days.

Also, a couple of minor things I noticed; I'm probably not the first one. Talking to the potion lady without the Adventure Pouch, the conversation continues as usual where she gives you the Empty Bottle, but her text box is blank when you would get the potion, and talking to her again and again results in the same conversation. Going back after early Goddess Sword, I ran into the instructor guy who wants you to target him, but for some reason I couldn't target him. Eventually I just walked away, since he was only yelling at me to stay if I went near the boxes, which I didn't even have to go up. Also, after placing the tablet, I flew back over Skyloft and for some reason I couldn't land, even though the down arrow thingy appeared telling me I could. I was able to fall normally into Faron, then back onto Skyloft when I went back later.

Also, I was messing around and accidentally overwrote my first file by saving in BiT without having a file selected, but for some reason it overwrote it with the second file instead of the blank third one like the first post says. Anyone know why this might be?

I feel like we need a better way to tell the difference between the title screen BiT and the loading from a saved BiT. Maybe full BiT for the title screen one, partial BiT for the loaded one without the title screen? Thoughts on those names?

TheOthin, join the IRC. Here's a useful thing I got. http://www.twitch.tv/abahbob/b/303987352

Not sure what IRC you're referring to. Link please?

Awesome Eldin skip. Feels like this game is just going to start flying to pieces now. Wonder if there's any way this could work to help get into early Bokoblin Base...

I do think it's good to mention all the important stuff here, regardless.

I was talking about irc.speeddemosarchive.com #zelda. But it's gone downhill...

How are you going so fast during BiT Abahbob?

He's using codes for testing; like speed boosts, moon jumps, etc.

Oh okay

Trying out wrong warping now, will edit as I test. Wrong warping can be done with any save file

Saved Location		Warps to
BiT Map		BiT Map
Pumpkin house in the sky		OoB near ???, hit skyloft landing trigger. Land outside the Bazaar.
Sandship (first statue in the front end of the boat		Spawn in the back of the boat, room with two different spots to shoot the timeshift stone on the mast. Puzzle elements are unloaded, leaving takes you back to the same room, saving at the bird statue takes you back to the same room, but only some elements are unloaded
Sky Keep		All rooms in Sky Keep are treated as separate areas. Named by the exits they have
ES room		Puts you hanging on a ledge, allows for map skip
NW room		OoBs
NS room		Sticks you next to a ladder in the conveyor belt part of the room
W Triforce room		Drops you off in the middle of a patch of quicksand, can be escaped but perma stuck if you fail.
Save checkpoints		Places where the game prompts you to save
After Goddess Sword		Places you OoB south of the Knights Academy

Is it possible to make a tab for http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/ for BiT? If everyone recorded the BitWarps, I'm sure all the combinations could be cataloged.

EDIT: Thank you CloudMax

After the race tomorrow, I will happily go through and BiT warp from every single bird statue in the game and catalog where they take you, if this isn't already in progress.

I haven’t gone through the whole sequence yet, but I’ve having a hard time getting BiT to work at all during the Bokoblin capture, mainly because of what I said before, dying takes you back to the cage, not a statue. I’m not sure if this is true the whole time, and I really can't remember if it is once you reach the cave.

Edit: Found some places where continuing doesn’t take you to a bird statue, but BiT does work. I’m not sure now why it doesn’t work in some places.

Isnt there a bird statue close to the Earth temple place during the capture? I really thought there was.

Did some testing, here's what I found

Ancient cistern: 1 statue puts you in mid air in the middle of the room, 2 are oob.  One of them is kinda close to the main room, and if we can somehow hit oob water from there it could pretty much skip half the dungeon, but it looks hopeless for now.

Eldin area: 1 just puts you in a useless spot/lets you get to the digging mitts cave early (must have to do with position).  The other 2 are oob, and 1 of them can put you directly on lava.  I also tried doing it during the item loss sequence.  You can run around the entire world with no items.  Super useful!  (/sarcasm)

Outside fire sanctuary: I was hoping one of them would put you past the fire wall blocking the sanc but they're all oob

Fire sanctuary: this one actually seems promising.  The statue near the plaza will just lead to an oob, but the other 2 statues will lead you to unloaded rooms about half way through the dungeon.  You're able to go through doors but a lot of walls, actors, and textures wont load.  I was able to get to 1 bird statue and saved hoping it could lead to a 2nd wrong warp but I just ended up in the unloaded room again.  If we're able to get to the statue near the boss door then I'm 99% sure we can get the bk skip.

If this is the case, can you warp to different places by saving at different skyloft statues?

yes.

New finds:
Deep woods (save at the ground floor outside academy statue) - takes us behind skyview temple, allowing us to see all those strange loaded actor issues.

Skyview temple (save at the other statue next to the stairs up to the goddess) - takes us to the main circular room with the beetle in the middle. Enemies and switches are unloaded until re-entry.

This could skip slingshot but CloudMax talks about this messed up skyview if you don't trigger that entrance switch. Still worth a try...


I'm going to do a complete playthrough testing BiTwarp in every map in every state of that map

Lake Floria (outside ancient cistern): Knight Academy statue puts you inbounds a few feet away from the bird statue. The other two are random OoB spots.

Volcano Summit: Bazaar statue puts you inbounds at the beginning of the area (near the hill). Other two both put you out of bounds. Shame, I was hoping for early Fire Dragon. >.>

Also, I saved in the Ancient Cistern basement and did BiT wrong warp. I ended up back in the main room with no actors loaded. Weird :s

So there's something else that can affect where you end up, then?

ooh shit... found a break in LMF. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGaq78E6jY4

Oh fuck yes. Gj GAS. Adding to main post

Fuck I was trying to sequence break that door by just highflipping over the fences around it :D

uhh... I'm not GAS, but thanks :P

Looking back at this, what about boss battles? Are any of them in the "does work" group? Could it be used to get to the loading zones to exit the battles early?

I'll get to testing this later if no one can do it sooner.

It should be possible to skip slingshot and the kikwis now if I'm not wrong.
first you use the faron woods BiTWW to skip the first kikwi.
then you use the skyward strike for deep woods early.
after that you use the deep woods BiTWW to get behind skyview temple.
Enter skyview temple.
Now use BiTWW in skyview temple to get into the circle room.
Save and Load. (actors will be missing in the circle room otherwise)
Use a skyward strike on the red crystal to get into the beetle room.

I have not tested it yet. GAS is going to test it for me.

Edit: GAS has confirmed that everything up until the last step works. He has not been able to test the last step yet.

Also, doors are missing so you can't make your way to the boss door.
So after you get the beetle, you use a bird statue to warp out, activate the door switch with the beetle, and then enter the temple again.
This should allow us to complete the temple.

We may be looking at a Slingshot skip here. We just need to test that one last step and see if it works.

Quick question since I haven't played this game yet, if you were to skip the slingshot, or any item for that matter, would you still be able to get it into your inventory during the whole Bokoblin Base sequence?

I think you would be able to get it. I can't remember for sure.
We skip slingshot during bokoblin base though.

Also, sadly, our theory didn't work out.

I entered the beetle room, and the miniboss even didn't trigger. =(

You can get all the items if you trigger the sequence early without most of them - currently impossible without cheats, but still seems to confirm that your previous inventory doesn't matter, at least for the core items.

I don't think we should give up on this. I'll try messing around there.

Some BiT stuff from me. Last one is my favorite!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFhU7AH7GX4&feature=youtu.be

Aw man BiT is fucking this game up so bad :D Can't wait to see what runs will look like in 10 years

Wait Kazooie, that last one in your video... that might actually be very very significant. You should be able to clawshot the vines from there, and if the Fi trigger doesn't extend past the wall, that would mean skipping the ENTIRE Scrapper escort. Someone needs to test this :x

edit: IT WORKS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TrJNuUrPu4)

edit 2: in the Sandship you can wrong warp into the boss key room. Unfortunately actors aren't loaded, you can't reload the room by going through the door at the top without using a small key (which would screw you out of the bow), and save + reload at the bird statue only loads a few of the actors. :/

Looking at the early Tree of Life seed, it seems like it should be possible to get it to grow on the first visit to Hylia's Realm, saving some time. From there, you could presumably land back in Lanayru Gorge and complete the Thunder Dragon part of the Song of the Hero quest before actually meeting Levias to start the quest. Would that have any implications for triggering the other parts early as well, so that when you visit Levias to start the quest, you can immediately complete it rather than having to visit him twice?

Also, looking at all those Faron warps CloudMax posted, even if we still need the slingshot, most or all of those warps seem like great timesavers. Which makes what, six BiTs an ideal run would use before even going to Eldin the first time? And then a seventh immediately upon landing in Eldin. Hope the people who will be watching runs of this game like the title screen.

The warp in faron woods is useless since we have to catch and find the kikwis now that slingshot skip isn't possible.
The warp in deep woods is useless simply because it isn't faster to perform the warp if you have the slingshot (especially if you use my goddess cube trick).
The warp in skyview temple is useful on the other hand. It will be used during the first and second visit and save quite some time.
During the first visit it is possible to skip almost the entire skyview temple. You use the BiTWW, go to the room with the boss key, enter the door to the far right, then go back and it will be loaded. We have to go back and get the beetle though. I tried to get the hook beetle without the normal beetle and it turns out that you can't equip the beetle. So getting the normal one is a must.

Edit: Added the useful skyview tricks to the ZSR page: http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/dungeon/skyview-temple

Wow... I stop visiting the board/irc for 1.5 weeks and this happens??

Anyway, I did some testing with BiT warping.

Fire Sanctuary:
Same as ZFG, I forgot that he tested that already.
But I will note that some more testing should be done with this, as it seems that it should be useful in some way.

Behind the Temple in Faron:
All 3 statues lead OoB.

Sealed Temple:
All 3 statues lead OoB. I did not try the Temple of Hylia, but I assume it will be the same.

Sealed Grounds:
All 3 statues lead OoB.

As you can see, no big finds, Hooray! Well at least I tested some spots so others won't have to. I will test more later today probably.
Anyway, great finds TheOnlyOne and GlitchesAndStuff! And those of you who found useful warps as well!

It's too bad you can't save anywhere, that would solve all our problems haha.

I'm confused for the slingshot skip.
Cloud are you saying you activated the crystal through some cheat method and the mini-boss did not load?
I don't get why a weapon would cause a boss to load or not.

The temple with the triforce, you can't get into that temple before placing the crystal in the bird, right? It would be cool if it was possible to get in that temple early.

For those unaware, there is a forth skyloft bird statue that can be used for BiT warping. This is the statue by where you rescue your bird, through the cave. Of course, this statue is so low that it’s not going to be very useful, but I still think it should be tried on every map just in case.

Places I’ve tried (all of them put you OoB): Fire sanctuary (first statue outside and near boss), Lake Floria (by waterfall), Sand ship (first statue), Inner volcano area, Ancient Cistern (main and basement).

The only one of these that has any potential is the AC basement: you are very close to being in bounds and in fact quite close to a platform. I wasn’t able to get on the platform even by moving to the extremes of the bird statue in skyloft, but it might just be possible.

And for those of you who want to tell me that the game will crash when you leave the cave obviously haven’t tried sleeping in a bed. ; )

The way that the temple works is, if you don't trigger the switch to enter the temple, then all the actors that are different in the later skyview temple will be missing. This includes the miniboss and beetle chest. He got into the beetle room by Z targeting a keese and firing a skyward strike at the crystal.

but the main reason why it wouldn't work anyway is because the slingshot is required to activate your B button.

I didn't realise you could actually get to this statue... But now you mention it, I'll try it out

Guys, we need to start organizing this stuff.

Here's a layout a propose.
The name of the map, which statues were tested, effects.


Map Name --------- [1] [2] [3] -------- Effects

ex.

Lanayru Desert ----- [X] [X] [X] ----------- All spawn inside normal area.


Idk, some crap like that. Here are numbers for Skyloft Statues to stay organized.

(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/abahbob/Skyloft.png)

The 4th statue should be tested too, yes?

Can you tell us how to get there?

Can you do a BIT while in the BIT skyloft?
For now, try cheat codes to use it.

Can it be used in any temple to get to a lower floor?
Maybe inside the second fire temple?

That's what I would hope. But I still don't know how to get to that statue.

It's the statue right where you rescue your loftwing. From the sound of things, it doesnt seem like we're gonne be able to get over there w/o cheats since entering that cave and trying to leave causes a freeze


But in the case that we could, it's always good to document these things :P

You can leave areas at night was what I meant in my post above. Just go through the cave at night. This warp really seems useless though.

And I already tried fire sanctuary. No good.

Ok, so that 4th statue can be reached.
I would say document this just in case.

I think I'll try this glitch as I'm pretty bored with my current game. I'll just create a backup of my Save data just in case.

So you can use the 4th statue for wrong warp?

Oh wow, I didn't know you could get to the fourth statue. Definitely gonna mess around with it some.

Which bed are you sleeping in to make it night? I've tried 2 so far, and both times after I exited the building I didn't regain control of Link after the camera panned back to him.

If your file has opened thunderhead or the graveyard door, you will see that cutscene and get stuck by going out at night. Make sure file 3 hasn’t done either of these. (Or choose a file that hasn’t before entering the house I suppose.)

Okay, I realized that.... I guess I'll start a new file on file 3. I had my 100% file copied onto all 3 files. File 3 was saved with one heart for quick death, file 1 was used as a backup, and file 2 was the file I was manipulating with BiT. Thanks.

Miles found a way to get the Fire Sanctuary boss key early.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om3M1yC6Ta4

Nice! I didn't think to try that, I thought that the blue platform wouldn't load unless you were "in the room" where the boss door is.

Nice, I wish he would of kept the video going and show him getting the boss key.

Okay, for those who can leave a house at night and the game not freeze, but you have opened the thunderhead or the graveyard door, I have figured out how to still use the fourth statue to BiTWarp. Here's how:

Note that this will probably only work for BiTWarping on file 2 (you'll understand why after you read this or try it out).

Since the thunderhead cutscene only starts when you press A and bring up the file select screen, you must not touch A after leaving the cave until you are close enough to "talk" to the statue. This will bring up the statue's prompt and the file select screen at the same time, and the cutscene will not activate. Now press down on the d-pad to center the cursor. This should put the pointer on file 2 and deselect any options from the statue's dialog. From here you can press A to select file 2, then move the control stick like normal to load and save at the same time.

EDIT:

I made a video showing how this is performed and it is uploading to YouTube now. I will post the link on this post when it is finished.

EDIT 2:

The video is uploaded here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZ0m8-LWJc).

Was all those rupees from a previous file?
I won't completly understand this until I get around to doing this entire glitch myself.

Yes, doing certain things during BiT update certain aspects of your inventory with the inventory of the file that BiT was activated on.

So after watching TheOnlyOne stream i tried messing around with BiT... And i admit i re-did almost all the things you guys tried ( just for the sake of it) but there was ONE thing that doesn't seem to make sense at all

Loading a file while BiT just as the prompt is disappearing while going to sleep --> It loads, but you end up falling into the void BUT if you check your map you're clearly in the house were you slept on.

Also the color of the void depends if you are going from day to night. I found it interesting and i got a little obsessed with this one as it seems the game "registers and saves" your position while you sleep and go through doors.

Maybe different beds render different X,Y,Z coordinates just as it happens with bird statues (That's what i'm going to try next)

**Edit**

Tried that with all the beds i could find and the result was the same. Loaded equipment from file 3, but always ended up falling OOB while the maps shows the House were i slept (but there is no Link icon anywhere)

I believe it is something of the opposite of the BiTWW as we know it. It seems to load the room of the bed, with the coordinates of the save already made.

I figured the same thing and put it to the test. Saving at different statues in the file you load as you sleep indeed alters the position of Link in relation to the room. I managed to actually get him into the potion house (not OoB) by saving at the bazaar statue in skyloft. I can’t see any use for this yet as you’re limited to skyloft houses, but we’ll see.

Edit: It seems day vs. night alters the position as well.

Edit 2: Selecting day to day or night to night then loading during the fade out loads that file properly and spawns link in the house you slept in, regardless of where you saved.

That could be useful, as you don't need to save over the file to get back in skyloft. Now warping on any file works easier.

I'm confused a bit.
You say your position is altered when you sleep in a bed?
So let's say you die purposely in Faron woods. There are 4 statues in Skyloft so that means your player can be warped to 4 different points. Now add in the night/bed factor and your player can be positioned at another point?
Or did I misunderstand?

While back in time, if you sleep in a bed and load a file during the fade out, that file will actually load, and link will be in the map of the house you slept in. Link’s position in this map is based on the position he was in in whatever map that file had been saved in. This is usually out of bounds. However, if it’s day and you sleep till day or night and you sleep till night, and load a file during the fade out, the file will load, and link will be in the house, not OoB. This is different from the BiT warping we’ve been dealing with so far, and it’s more or less unrelated (as there is no saving going on.)

By the way, you can do something similar with the hint stone by the training house at night while back in time. Load a file while saying you’d like some hints, and the list will come up. Exiting this list, you will see that the file has loaded normally, and you will be in front of the stone (or in that spot if it isn’t actually there.)

These are alternate ways of warping to skyloft, I suppose, but they’re slower than just warping to BiT skyloft with the Bazaar statue.

Hope that clears some things up.

This is something rather useless, but it is possible to mess up the button texts on menues during BiT.
If you interact with a statue during BiT and open up another menu in the file selection while it is loading, wrong button texts will be attached the the buttons.
Example:
Interact with a bird statue, and while the menu hasn't fully loaded yet, press the -/+ button on a file to bring up another menu.
The buttons will use the text from the last opened menu, on both of the menues, making it look all messed up.

It appears that the buttons still act the same, it is just a visual error, so I do not think it is useful at all.

______

During BiT, the game triggers the cutscenes that the currently selected save file have already "Unlocked".
I have explained this a several times, and I do not understand why people still hasn't figured it out.
If you do not have a file selected, the game uses save file number 3 and takes the information from it. if that file doesn't exist, it take file 2, if that one doesn't exit, it takes file 1, and if that one doesn't exist, it uses the information of a BiT file.
So you never have to think about "save file 3", you can choose which file it uses by simply having it selected in the file menu, I found this 2 days ago, and explained it a several times.

If you do not want to trigger any cutscenes, you just select a save file that has not yet came far enough into the game to have watched/unlocked these cutscenes.

This is why people say that different cutscenes randomly triggered in skyloft when they rolled into a tree, or turned a windmill, because they all had different information on save file 3, and when they said that it was random, it was simply because they had another save file selected in the menu without knowing about the effects it causes.

The game loads data this way for everything during BiT, it is the same when you enter a new area, it will load the area to look like the currently selected file. And it also works like this during BiTWW. It is basically how the game loads data during BiT.

Hope this helps.

______

I managed to activate a pillar of light during BiT, I entered the goddess statue, activated the triforce symbol, put the tablet in there, started the cutscene the game asked me if I wanted to save, but the file selecting screen was gone during this, so I could sadly not BiTWW using the cutscenes save it seems.
When link spawned in his room, the cutscene where he's equipping his tunic starts, and as soon as it ends and you get control over link, the game crash.

However, since the game allowed me to save, it was possible to BiTW to skyloft using the cutscenes save.

When I loaded up the file that I had done BiTW on, it started the cutscene in the academy where link equip the tunic (he does not actually equip the tunic if the file doesn't have it.). It also auto heal you so that you have full lives.

I was really hoping that I would be able to BiTWW.

-

I used the BiTW on a new BiT file (unused) and a few funny things happened.
I wake up in links room, when I exit it I get the pouch. Everyone in the academy acts as if I'm leaving skyloft (except for the beds. can't sleep in the academy).
Outside of skyloft it is like a totally new save file. I get the skyloft intro, the instructor wants me to go to him, and everything seems normal.
Except for a few things...
Both of the skyloft gates are open (they are trying to repair the gate while it is open, looks weird).
The Sparring hall is unlocked, so I could get the sword right away.

Everything else appears to be normal.

Wow CloudMax, I did the exact same thing. I had actually gone through the wing ceremony on the file I saved to, so I got the pouch and went outside, and as it turns out, the characters from the ceremony were all still standing there, and if I got close the instructor told me to run off the platform repeatedly until I turned around and went the other way. XD Jumping off skyloft and calling the bird started the race, but with the normal sky music. I also managed to get two Fis on the screen at the same time inside the goddess statue… Weird stuff, but all useless it seems. =/

I do have an important question that I hope someone can figure out an answer to. When you try to go outside at night while back in time, it usually loads nighttime skyloft the way it would be for the file that is “loaded.” But on some occasions, they game crashes just like when you go outside during the day. I simply cannot figure out what causes this. My guess is it has something to do with the files themselves, but I haven’t been able to see any pattern in when it will crash and when not. Does anyone know what’s up with this?

The reason we need to get this cleared up is because I’m pretty sure we could get into sky keep in BiT for another warp position (or more, my guess is only one though because the game would crash when the map comes up after moving the rooms, but who knows) by going in at night, but it keeps crashing on me when I leave the house. I’ve tried leaving with a file that just got the trial stone, one right after placing the stone, and a fresh file (save in front of academy at the start of the game) with the intent of loading nighttime skyloft with the fresh file, then selecting the file with the trial stone then placing it. I just find it strange because I had no problems leaving at night before I tried to pursue this.

GlitchesAndStuff & I found something interesting.
He earlier noticed that after a BiTWW in fire sanctuary, if he died, he got warped back to the statue he saved at before starting BiT.

I tested this with BiTW and found out that we actually can revert the BiTW.
If you BiTW to skyloft, and then kill yourself before entering a new zone, the game will teleport you back to the location you were at before the BiTW.

So basically, the game keeps the location you should respawn at through BiTW and BiTWW. It will obviously be overwritten as soon as you go to another location that sets the respawn location.

I am surprised that the game actually keeps the respawn location.


------

No useful BiTWW in skipper's retreat.
No useful BiTWW in Shipyard.
No useful BiTWW in pirate stronghold.

Daww cloudmax, I was just testing sand sea areas :/. Oh well now I don't have to finish.

Also, I have just one a few questions about the files used during BiT. You say that with no files selected it pulls info from file 3, or file 2 if 3 doesn't exist, or file 1 if 2 doesn't exist. You also say that if no files exist, it uses information from a BiT file? What do you mean by that? And how could there be no files? I realize you could use the menus to delete any existing files, but you have to first select them to delete them. I just want to clear that up because I don't fully understand the "BiT file" you mentioned.


-----


Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

By BiT file I meant that it loads a "default" file. When you create a "BiT file" it has the creation date of year 2000, 00:00 playtime, etc.
If you do not have any existing files, it will load this default data.

And you can start BiT without having an actual save file.

Just start up the game, delete all files, create a new file, start BiT without ever saving. You won't have any save files since the game doesn't actually save that you are creating a file.

-----

I managed to lock my console.. kind off.. during BiT.
I were in BiT and loaded a file, then started to save right before the screen faded out. (I couldn't actually see that the saving process even started)
When the game had loaded, my home button were disabled permanently, I just got that disabled icon in the bottom of the screen.
I then tried to reset using the reset button on the wii. It didn't work either.
I now started to play again and noticed that after I had hit the reset button, all buttons on both controllers were disabled. The only thing I could do were move and swing my sword. The sound were also missing.
This is because the game is waiting to finish the saving process before it resets the game, but it disables everything before it actually reset.

You can still enter loading zones and such during this, the game still function properly, except for the missing sound and disabled buttons.

The only one, you don't think the game randomly crashes because you just opened the path to the forest area? What if it's trying to load that cut scene over again, or at least randomly.

That doesn't seem likely, because the other two cutscenes only load when you bring up the file select screen. I also tested with most of the save files that are posted in the save stockpile thread, and they all freeze upon exiting a house at night. There is something else that we are not realizing just yet.

Guys, I really want to organize all these warps, but please test all the statues. I would hate to say a warp doesn't work when a different statue leads to a big skip.

Also, here's the quickest place to start BiT in skyloft. Just watch beginning. http://www.twitch.tv/abahbob/b/304161304 (http://www.twitch.tv/abahbob/b/304161304)

Forgot to mention this earlier, dying at night while back in time doesn’t crash the game.

If you select quit, the game goes to a black screen where you can do nothing, but it doesn’t actually crash; the home menu still works.

If you select continue, Link will come out of the house you left or appear at the last statue you saved at (if you save in skyloft at night), like when you normally die, but you are still back in time.

If you select continue and load a file at the same time, the file will load, and Link will come out of the house you left or appear at the last statue you saved (as above.) This is another slow way to use BiT to warp to skyloft. As CloudMax said, if you die in the actual file after this, continuing will take you back to where you actually last saved.

Trying to go back in time while back in time just brings up the normal title screen it seems.

This is weird.

I played all the way through the story UNTILyou have to follow Fi.  I performed BiT and went to get the GS.  I got the Sword from the Pedestal and the cutscene triggered giving me the Emerald Tablet..THen the cutscene restarted of m just entering the SotG with Link already having the GS. The cutscene just loops constantly.

Edit: Also after Fi re-tells me to re-draw the Sword the GS isn't in the Pedestal instead Like I already expained) I already have it.

This is known. Because of BiT, you are still in a somewhat unloaded BiT mode. After you draw the sword and the cutscene starts, you are in normal mode. It's similar to how in BiT you can enter a map fine, but when you leave the game crashes.

So after the cutscene I get the Hero's Tunic and all and when I try to go to Faron Woods/Sealed grounds I can't call my Loftwing. She/He isn't even on the Down-DPAD either

Just go into the statue and get the sword. Don't place the tablet or use skyward strike. Then talk with Groose. Then bird and race. Continue from there.

Also, check out my Skyloft route. Needs improvement, but its already faster than Paraxade's test run.
http://www.twitch.tv/abahbob/b/304272866

To elaborate: If you place the Emerald Tablet before rescuing the Loftwing, the Loftwing is gone forever. So you don't want to do that. Although I'm not sure why you'd want to go through with the race after you get the bird. Unless you just mean the practice with Zelda?

Hmm 2min saved. I wonder how many more can be saved with perfection.
That corrupted file will save 1min and 10sec(about) for the BIT part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TrJNuUrPu4
So he could of done it 2min 49sec(youtube length).
This is impressive!

Here is a video of the the Skyview trick I mentioned on page 2 for those who missed it, or simply want to see a video of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtYMdKd4bts

You can read about it here:
http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/dungeon/skyview-temple

Looking at the BiT section of the site - you can load the Stone of Trials from an existing file in BiT? Does that mean it's possible to access Sky Keep during BiT?

On an unrelated note, I've found that when I'm in BiT and attempt to jump off the ledge to get placed near the Goddess Statue, I often wind up crashing the game. I'm not sure about anything I'm doing differently; in the videos I've seen, no one else seems to have any issues with it.

The game crashes when you activate the stone of trials if I remember correctly. I can't remember exactly what happened.

Also, about the crashing, I have never experienced it myself, but people say that it happens when you press B while falling down there or something. Can't remember for sure.

Not to be rude, but I believe I found that wrong warp first. Anyway, yeah there is a softlock if you press B to get back to the title screen on certain animations like falling off edges and sleeping.

You found the wrong warp, but if you watch the video, you'll see that I found a way to skip basically everything by reloading the area behind the barred gates.

CloudMax, when the site lists the fence hop method for early Lake Floria, you're credited for the trick, but Brickguy is also credited for getting the original fence hop that you expanded to skip directly to the waterfall. This seems like the same situation, but you're the only one credited for this skip on the site.

That was because others didn't get credits for finding the wrong warps either from what I know of anyway.
It is like the regular wrong warps (not using BiT), I do not take credits for finding any of the warps, even though I tested almost all of the OoB warps in the entire game.
It is the same for the early BK in fire sanctuary. The finder of the actually warp didn't get credits, but the person who found a use for it did.
I am not the one who decides if this is the right or wrong way to do it, I just followed that mindset because it seemed logical to me, and because someone else also used it before me.

I only put Miles for early BK in the Fire Sanctuary because I didn't know who found the warp. If you know who found them, you should really put something on the page like, "wrong warp discovered by ___", or like I did with the skipping the scrapper escort when I said it was found by Paraxade & Kazooie. I just haven't looked that deeply into the posts to know. So please don't keep with that mindset Cloud. If you know who found the warp, post it on the page(s).

Guys, I'm worried about Sailcloth skip. If you skip it, the doors in the academy won't unlock. Wouldn't this affect starting the info about Lavias? That would mean it would only be for harp runs. I'm getting to that part now, but if anyone has a save around there it would be helpful

Any type of save file or a BIT version?
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/960633-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword/saves

If the doors to the school is locked from the outside then why not use clawshot and enter Zelda's room. Assuming you can still get outside somehow.

What i mean is this. When you finish the race and get the Sailcloth, all the internal doors unlock. If you skip all that, the only open doors are the bath, restroom, links room, and the headmaster's room. So that kills the Levias sequence when you need to talk with one of the Instructors. I'm on lvl 5 atm, almost there.

Yeah, this whole thing explains why m2k2 stopped putting credit on the pages. It probably works better that way.

Abahbob, something to try when you get there:

Place the emerald tablet while back in time. You can do this by going back in time with the file you want to progress, selecting a file that hasn’t placed the tablet, then entering the goddess statue, then selecting a file with at least the goddess sword, then skyward strike the bird thing, and then place the tablet. You will get some cut scenes and it will prompt a save. Make sure the file you’re trying to progress in was selected before this prompt comes up.

You should have warped your file into the cutscene where link puts on his tunic. After the cutscene, you are in the academy in your room. I have no idea if the state of the academy will be of any use, but it’s worth a try.

Oh, had another idea. Since you are saved in the academy, maybe you can BiTWW into other parts of the academy? Also worth a try. Even if something works out, it may really just be faster to get the sailcloth.

The only event that affects the academy is the Race. Other events change actors, but nothing else changes the locks.

Does clipping through the vines get you inside the school or is it all void?

Wait, isn't the lower academy door still unlocked if you skip the sailcloth?
I am almost positive that it still was unlocked for me.

It locks itself during the Fi escort, but doesn't it stay unlocked if you skip the Fi sequence?
And isn't the lower academy door unlocked in the Skyloft Title map? If that's the case, then we won't have any problems either.


I'll add it in right away. But then I'd appreciate if I and kazooie will get credits for the OoB wrongwarps if they ever become useful aswell, since I spent an entire day testing almost every single one of them. ^^

It was ZFG that found the fire sanctuary warp, at least he was the first person to mention it that I know off, and he posted a video of it.
Glitchesandstuff found the skyview warp.

_________________________________

This is something I found out while doing some testing with BiTWW and OoB WW today:
Fire Sanctuary is split into 3 sections.

Section 1:
The first room in the dungeon.

Section 2:
The Boss Door Area, including the room to the north west.
All rooms from the mouth up to the boss key.

Section 3:
All other areas in the entire dungeon.
Note that all the bridges is a part of this section.

When you BiTWW in a dungeon, which section you were in before the warp decide which section of the dungeon it loads.

In Fire sanctuary you will load section 3 if you saved at section 3.
If you saved at section 1, you will load section 2.
If you saved at section 2, you will load section 2.

When you BiTWW, the actors in the room will only be loaded if you saved in that room before activating BiTWW.
When you're in a section with missing actors, you have to reload the current room to make them appear. You can do this by exiting and entering it again, or save & quit, then load the file again.

An example of this is when we get BK early in Fire sanctuary. We save in a room in section 1 and BiTWW, so the actors will be missing. then we have to reload the area to make the actors load properly, so that we can continue to the boss key.

We can also skip a few rooms before the mogma mitts in fire sanctuary by doing BiTWW from the statue after the 1st room.

This is the same for all dungeons. I've not documented the sections for any other dungeons yet.

He isn’t saying you can’t get into the academy, he’s saying you can’t get into the room of the instructor who teaches you the spiral charge.

Unless some sidequest event unlocks his door (doubtful) the only potential way into his room would be a BiTWW. We might have to get the sailcloth afterall. =/

So you can't skip sailcloth because of this stupid thing? Have anyone proofed this yet? What about if you sleep to night in academy and then go to his room and sleep to morning? Or is his door locked at night?

Here's the Fire Sanctuary timesaver I mentioned in my last post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YGWQhLdP9w

It is funny to battle against that Dark Lizalfos. He will block every single attack you do on him, and then he resets unless you hit him fast enough.
So I tried all my items and noticed that it is possible to stun him with the whip, and if you put away the whip and attack fast enough, you can get a hit on him, then just spin attack and use finishing blow on him. :)

I also tried to see if you could get past the other gate during BiT, it turns out that you can.

I misworded my post.
I meant can you clip through the school to get to his room?
For now we should just wait and see what happens when it's time to talk to him.
It's hard to come up with theories without at least being able to test them.

You can't talk to him at night because he's taking a bath ;)

Is the thunderhead locked until you get the spiral charge? Because there was some video of a guy fighting the M(?)ilobyte by landing directly on Levias without charging any of the eyeballs.

You have to unlock it before going to levias, but the thunderhead unlocks way before that. You go to thunderhead after the 3rd temple.
Levias is after the 6th(?) temple.

Ah right, the isle of songs, I forgot.

I'm guessing Levias doesn't appear until the teacher dude has taught Link the spin dash?

He doesn't appear until you bring him the soup, and you can't get the soup until you get the spin dash.

Although if it's possible to complete the Thunder Dragon quest early, I wonder if that might help by triggering something.

I'm almost at lvl6 on my BiT save. I'll hurry up and finish to see if the door remains locked. Warping in there is so unlikely, but maybe warping from Zelda's bed would work. It's a 1 in a million chance though.

Turns out Sailcloth skip gets you stuck. Dead-end. Only useful in harp runs.

Before you give up, can you at least post a video of the situation?

Trust me, there is no way. If there was, it would be way longer than just getting it. I was thinking maybe finishing the Cawlin's letter, but i doubt it. If you want a video, just skip sailcloth and go into academy. Hit + and you can see the map. Try going into most rooms. That is the situation.

Post a save of it in the save topic then?

Would we save time by doing BiTW after rescuing the loftwing to skip the ceremony intro? I am not sure how long that intro really is.

Also, we can still skip most of the Fi Escort even if we get the sailcloth by saving at the first statue after exiting the house during night, BiTW & then enter the statue of goddess. But I do not know how much time this would save either. I would assume that it is slightly faster though.

This will not save much time, but it's something.

Edit:
During BiT, if you kill yourself, then choose Continue and load a file at the same time, you will warp to the location you were supposed to respawn during BiT.
So if I for example enter the goddess statue during BiT, kill myself in there with bombs, then load a file and press continue at the same time, I will load the file and spawn in the goddess statue.

___________

In the sand ship, wouldn't we save time by saving at the statue at boss door when we get 2nd key, BiTWW to the boss key room, unlock the door to spawn the boss key chest, take the boss key, and deathwarp back down?
Or maybe it's faster to just run to the boss key room? I can't remember how long it takes.

I have an idea that's probably impossible.
Can you double BIT...or something like that.

Let's take the Ancient Cistern for example. First the normal BIT way.
1. So you save at the entrance bird and do a BIT.
2. Then during BIT you head to the bird statue(near the 2nd floor school entrance) at the school and save & continue your Ancient Cistern game.
3. If I understood right, you'll be back in Ancient Cistern at xyz location.

Now what if you did this instead.
1. So you save at the entrance bird and do a BIT.
2. Then during BIT you head to the bird statue #1 at the school and save but don't continue.
3. Perform a BIT during this BIT mode.
4. Then during BIT you head to bird statue #2 and save & continue your Ancient Cistern game.
Would you be at a different location then if you would of performed a normal BIT and just chose bird statue #2 from the start?

In theory, the first save would end up putting you back in skyloft, then the second save would BiTWW you on the skyloft map, which would just put you in front of the statue you saved at. Of course you never know until you try.

I actually messed around with this last night. I think skipping part of the Fi escort using BiT may be a tad faster, but I'm not completely sure. Also, after rescuing the loftwing but before the race, there are two unskippable decently long cutscenes to sit through, so if we can skip those scenes with BiT, it would be nice. I can try playing around with it now to see if it works.

EDIT:

If you do BiT after saving your loftwing, you can go inside a building (like the Bazaar) and come back out to load the actors. Zelda, Groose, Cawlin, and Stritch are at the Plaza, and so is instructor Horwell(?), and the Golden loftwing with the statue (the loftwing isn't solid). If you get close enough to Zelda, the cutscene starts except it has no control over Link. When I did it, after Zelda left the plaza, it pushed me a little bit, and I wasn't visible for the rest of the cutscene. Then the other cutscene starts like normal, then the race. But you can walk around Zelda to avoid triggering the first cutscene, and jump off and call your loftwing. When you mount it, it loads the area outside of Skyloft, except you are in the race, so you can skip the cutscenes with BiT which would be faster.

Matt, if you leave skyloft from anywhere at that point, you will cause the cutscene. This is known.

This double BiT stuff makes no sense. The reason For BiTWarping is saving and loading at the same time. Saving once without loading would set your map to skyloft, therefore making you appear there if you attempt to warp.

Also, I'm not quite done with sailcloth skip. Me and Testrunner were talking last night and I got an idea I want to try. Slim chance, but it would save a lof of time.

I also wonder exactly how BiTWarping works. The thing I want go know is if it uses the coordinates you are at, or the ones you saved at. So far, they are the same, but if we find another activation method, that would be important. That would make us able to use any coordinates instead of being limited to statues.

Can you activate a saving cut scene during BIT mode? Then you could save and load a file at the same time instead of just using the bird warps.

Slim to none chances. Saving places like that typically require activities to be done and they cannot be done in BiT. Also, turns out that even with the Tree of Life fruit, the Thunder Dragon will not appear before Levias. No sailcloth skip fix yet


IDEA: I was talking with TestRunner and he thought of using BiTWarping into unloaded rooms, then using a Wrong Warp from those statues. Please test!!

There is a bug when you do the early seed of life. I got it when I made my 2nd visit to the Desert after getting the clawshot, but got the Bird Statue the first time I went to the desert. I then started the minecart part when I was going to get the 3rd part of the Song of the Hero and all the textures for the minecart section were shown as they were back in time even though the minecart had not reached that section. For example, you can see all the vines in the hookshot room but can only climb on them when the minecart is far enough on the rail. The only things that didn't appear early were the platforms and the clawshot targets.
All in all it is just bothersome more than anything, but something to watch out for.

Tried doing BiT warp/new save by sleeping in bed at night and saving, it was kinda neat. You can create the 1 heart corrupted save so that it starts out at night. New game starting at night is dead end haven. You can reach the goddess statue but the door won't open without Fi.

Also, dying and continuing results in a game crash with the 1 heart / new game?

I hope people realise this by now since I've explained it way to many times already, but you can't OoB wrong warp from unloaded rooms.
Unloaded rooms and OoB rooms is entirely different things.

A unloaded room is when you are in the right map, but actors haven't loaded properly.
A OoB room is when you have loaded the wrong map.

And BiTWW rarely takes us to OoB rooms. it is almost always just unloaded rooms.

We can get to OoB floria waterfall by BiTWW from lake floria. This OoB Wrong Warp crashes.
We can get to a OoB statue in Fire Sanctuary by loading the boss door area, and entering one of the doors on the bridges. This one also crashes.
We an get to OoB statues in the desert area by doing BiTWW from temple of time. These statues crashes.

I can't remember if there actually is more OoB statues that we can access, but there is just a few that we have access to, and they all crash.

Doing BiTWW in skyview and spawning in the unloaded circle room is not OoB. It is just the room that hasn't loaded properly.

And then there is places like LMF that is extremely odd. This one takes you into what seems like a OoB room if you BiTWW from the entrance bird statue. Problem is that the game actually registers that OoB room as being in the actual room, but exiting and entering the room or trying to OoB Wrong Warp won't do anything. it doesn't count as being OoB....

Sorry CloudMax, I guess I was mistaken. I thought a Wrong Warp was from unloaded rooms. Also, can we just call it BiTWarping? It has nothing to do with Wrong Warps. It is so much easier to say bit warp. Just a pet peeve.

Probably some old stuff here, but gonna post it anyway.

I discovered how to die during BiT and be able to continue without crashing the game. I "think" all that needs to be done is you need to just save the game on a non bit or corrupt file. Or if that doesn't work, just grab a fruit to load a non-bit or corrupt file. I'm sort of wondering if there may be a way to access other locations with this, have to test something out tomorrow to be sure.

Second, I was able to wrong warp from night-time pumpkin to night-time skyloft. That wrong warp is so nifty.

Third of all, every bed in the houses on the east side of the river always has the ability to change time.

Fourth, I noticed that if you bit as soon as you get your loftwing back, you can jump of any platform and fly around skyloft. If you head towards the east end of town, somewhere around there you'll hit a loading trigger which will take you straight into what I'm calling the "loftwing training ground". This area will load during BiT, and completing it simply returns you back to the proper point in the game.

Now, this stays this way until after you've beaten the bird statue challenge and zelda is tossed below the surface. Once the Follow Fi sequence starts, hitting that trigger takes you to the Loftwing Ceremony thing instead. Once you complete it, everything seems to run normally until the sail cloth diving challenge. No cutscene will play once you hit the ground, and you're stuck in that area of skyloft and have to bit out.

Interestingly enough, if you bit out of the Follow Fi sequence and talk to some people, they talk as if you haven't completed the Loftwing Ceremony thing.

Has this been attempted on the demo? Maybe the whole game would be available after wrongwarp and saving? It's possible there's no statues on a demo BiT Skyloft though

The demo at my local best buy has statues, but they cannot be saved at. But this doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to BiT.

Wait, are you referring to the leaked demo? Thinking of that, I really want to get that on a hdd and try this out.

I discovered something new.

The cutscenes that play in Skyloft are NOT determined solely by what cutscenes have already played in the file. There is another factor to this.

Here's exactly what I did on my Hero save in slot 3. I started off at skyloft's bird statue and killed myself, activating BiT. When I rolled into the bug tree, the bats door opening cutscene occured. I then moved to the bird statue outside of the earth temple and saved/killed myself. This time when I rolled into the tree I got both the bats cutscene AND the opening of the thunderhead cloud cutscene!

Yes the leaked one, the effects should be intriguing

Dying in that goes right back to the title screen, without the game over screen. You also can't use the home button. Resetting via the button on the wii while the screen is black did nothing, but i only tried it once, so i can't say for sure it wouldn't work at different times, but i doubt it.

Have you tried TP BiT?

Just tried, and it didn't work, but i've never done it before, so i may have timed it wrong. I could try it in dolphin with savestates tomorrow, but in don't expect anything different, since unlike the retail version, the demo's title screen is just a generic picture of the sky.

If the title screen is literally an image, then BiT shouldn't work. But you never know

Sorry, it's not a still image. It's a picture of the sky, with clouds moving across. But yeah, i highly doubt it'd work.

Sounds like it will. We just need to find a place for it. I saw a video and it seems like it uses the same engine for most things.

What does the screen look like as it transfers from death to start menu again?

Normal dying fade out crap. After its black, it takes a while. It then fades back into the title screen file select.

More things.

I discovered how to wrong warp to different points of the sky. To do so, simply obtain the ability to fly by saving over a file with the ability to summon a loftwing (should be a file that already has the goddess sword legitimately), then jump off the platform and start playing an existing game. The timing for this is very broad, but if you're late it will crash the game.

The coordinate in the sky is dependent on what bird statue you previously saved at. One cool thing about this is that if you save at like the pumpkin bird statue, you'll end up at the same spot, but the sky theme will play as long as you don't jump off of anything.

Can anyone make the Left on D-Pad to walk through walls and air, but for the Demo? I really want to explore a bit, but the only code that lets you explore Skyloft causes no events to work.

Actually, it would also work to add an activator to the current walk while in the "bird racing" level. Just make it so that it is only activated when holding down something on d-pad.

sounds interesting...

Something that I experienced the other day was the cutscenes playing as soon as I selected the file without saving or picking up fruit, This is probably already known but I don't look much into BiTE, when I saved again on that file though, it didn't happen again... I was selecting a file saved in BiT skyloft

Can this be used to get into thunder head early?
I just realized something. Besides Skyloft there is a statue on punkin island and inside thunder head, can both theses statues be reached and used like the other statues?

Well I doubt that they would work. Or well atleast. Skyloft is it's own map, so the statues have separate coordinates from pumpkin and thunderhead. Once we get away from Skyloft with the title screen open, then we can wonder about these things. 

Just for fun, anyone with action replay want to test this?
I seen someone run across the sky with no bird so I know this is at least possible.

Well, no. If you run from skyloft, you will stay in skyloft map. So unless you magically get into beedles ship and sleep, you cant exit skyloft.

Ahabob, you can get into the sky map if you save over a file that has a bird, but haven't gotten the goddess sword. If you try and fly here during bit, you can get to the sky by heading into a loading trigger somewhere around the east side of Skyloft. This takes you to either the Loftwing practice or Wing Ceremony thing depending on how far in the game you are.

So, if you can figure out (or already know) how to gain back control after the thunderhead cutscene plays, and can clip out of the practice area, you could possibly reach the thunderhead couldn't you?


I've never experienced a cutscene playing just by selecting the file from the file select. From my experience...

Rolling into the tree by the bug kid always plays cutscenes related to file 3.
I can activate cutscenes fairly consistently by going up to a bird statue and not saving. What file is selected here determines what cutscene plays.
Saving the game seems to "lock-in" a file.
Dying and continuing, or entering skyloft at night seems to re-activate any cutscenes that play.

Sorry mzx, said that wrong. Clipping out of the training sequence would be really sweet.

Try different doors. Bazar, the different houses, how about falling off the edge of the screen as well?
What about pressing start while dying.

There's some ideas for you.

Some notes:

I see the only uses for the corrupt file in harp runs are in skyloft and skyview.
Warp from damage on the fire blob in eldin.
Finish earth temple with 2 hearts, skip heart container.
Save at the prompt and use bomb for death outside temple.
Save at bird in Lanayru, bomb for death.
Save at bird next bird and use bomb for death.

If you dont like having 2 hearts, in lanayru you could save at the statue after the bit, then deathwarp after the western node. wastes time, but faster than using a stool.
Or you could risk it and use TestRunner's method of deathwarping after the hook beetle.

Has all BiT research stopped? I haven't heard anything in a week.

I still have a ton of stuff I want to test but I'm really lazy right now and not motivated. the fact that no-one else is motivated makes me like that too :p I'll test some stuff eventually. We still need to know why some people don't crash when they try to go to skyloft at night BiT

I believe it was something about which title screen you have open at what time. Thanks for having some motivation. It kills me to see this forum become more and more inactive, when we have already cut off so much time. Still not close to enough, but still a good amount of time

Sky Keep:

Entry room
-Bazaar: Spawns you on top of one of the right wall; from there you can jump out of bounds or skip the dungeon map
-Knight Academy statues: Didn't bother testing because I'm pretty positive they'll be OoB; it's not a very big room

Skyview Temple room
-Bazaar: Spawns you over a bottomless pit.
-Knight Academy Upper: Out of bounds
-Knight Academy Lower: Out of bounds

Small Key room
No bird statue.

Earth Temple room
-Bazaar: Spawns you right next to the bird statue. HOW HELPFUL
-Knight Academy Upper: Out of bounds
-Knight Academy Lower: Out of bounds

LMF room
-Bazaar: Puts you next to the ladder near the Sentrobe at the first conveyer belt.
-Knight Academy Upper: Out of bounds
-Knight Academy Lower: Out of bounds

Ancient Cistern room
No bird statue. Shame because that's the room that had the most potential.

Sandship room
-Bazaar: Spawns you in the quicksand underneath the Nayru symbol
-Knight Academy Upper: Out of bounds
-Knight Academy Lower: Out of bounds

Fire Sanctuary room
-Bazaar: Spawns yoou on the stairs in front of the bird statue. Another incredibly helpful one!
-Knight Academy Upper: Out of bounds
-Knight Academy Lower: Out of bounds

I did a little testing on the Mining Facility while everything was unloaded. I don't know how common knowledge this is, but smaller surfaces you can't normally walk on, you can while it's unloaded; the track for the mining cart, and the two areas you can crawl, for example. Unfortunately, there seems to be no use for this here. I was able to get to the chest with the rare treasure early, as well as the red rupee chest, but that's about it.

What do you mean while it was unloaded?

Where there are no textures and the only things loaded are bird statues, doors, and such, and walking through one of the doors causes you to fall endlessly. I wasn't sure if this is what you guys consider "out of bounds."

I mean how did you get there?

Save at the first statue in the Mining Facility, BiT, save/load at Statue 2, and you'll land near where the blue switch would be to open the door, but almost nothing will be loaded.

Ah. Actually, imma mess with that. I haven't looked into it, but it may be useful.

I remember TheOnlyOne messed with the unloaded room in LMF, and actually the ground that is activated in the past by the mine carts is loaded, so it's possible to get to the bird statue by the boss without doing much but navigating the main path, but when you save and quit the room is still unloaded.

Not any BiT research really, but something that should be noted is for anybody playing skyward sword off of any method where resetting takes you all the way back to the wii menu (for example the early leaked full game), rather than an actual disk, BiT will be impossible. Lucky me I have a disk.

I have the disk as well, but I ripped it onto my external HDD and I use Configurable USB Loader and BiT works just fine for me.

Fully unloaded rooms in LMF was tested fairly extensively by theonlyone. Here's the run down if you don't know:

The room was completely unloaded instead of partially unloaded in LMF, because LMF (like most dungeons) has several "areas". You'll notice that sometimes when you go through a door, the screen fades black or white to load the next room. That indicates an area transition. When you enter a new area, the entire "area" is partially loaded, and the room you are in is fully loaded. But when you BiTWW from the beginning of LMF, you respawn in the location of the second area, even though you are still in the first. This is possible because all the areas in the dungeon share the same map, and your position is based off the map, not the area or room.

The game still thinks you are in the first area because that's the statue you saved at (First room of LMF) and you never hit a trigger (the doors) to let the game know you are in the second area. Even if you save now, the game still does realize you are supposed to be in the the second area. Remember, statues are not inherently linked to their respective rooms. The game keeps track of what room/area/map you are in when you enter loading zone/doors. Saving at a statue will not update this. In fact you're position is determined by Link, so all statues are identical in that they only give you a prompt. If you were able to save anywhere, you should be able with little consequence.

So a Save and Quit at the statue will not reload the room properly, cause when you load the file the wrong area is loaded. All the textures are not loaded, and neither are the loading zones. Chests and doors are still there, but doors that load a different area do not work. The game still recognizes the solid floors (no walls ofc) and seems to be set to the "past" mode, so you can walk where the platforms appear from timeshift stones.

This is all a dead-end ofc. I think I may have to make a vid explaining BiT. People keep asking me how it works.

Paraxade: That makes me sad. Looks like nothing useful in Skykeep.

I think I'd have to disagree about the time stone thing though. You can walk where the time stone normally goes, yes, but you only have a very slender walkway to do so; about the length of the rail that the mine cart travels on. For whatever reason, it appears to be that the rail is flat in this unloaded area.

I'd accept that, as you can also walk along the "crawlspace" floor too.

has anyone tested BiT warp with the underwater save statues at floria? and also maybe the opposite using the loading zone trick while BiT, might place link somewhere in the swimming animation (not helpful but interesting)

Edit: I just tested anyway, nothing useful and link doesn't swim :(

Here's a vid explaining BiT. Hope fully it'll pull in more runners.

http://www.twitch.tv/testrunner/b/306311907

Can you upload to YouTube? That would be nice to get rid of ads and it would be more public.

I'll have to make a youtube account... but I guess i could.

EDIT: meh, the vid is too long. I would have to split it, which kind of seems like it would defeat the purpose. If I make a shorter vid, I will upload it.

Perhaps someone with a Director's account could upload it. I don't have one unfortunately or I would.

I want to make a more concise vid at some point. I'm not fully satisfied with it. I forgot to have a good save to show BitWW and thus has a bunch of dead time for traveling >_>. Although if someone chops out some of the middle, it'll prob be nicer, dunno. I give permission for people to post the vid on youtube for me if they want.

i have a youtube account without time limit if that could be useful.

its up
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al4upuRjwCk

Should I record and post a youtube video of a full harp run? Seems like it would be nice for some people to see it and have a go to source to recommend people to see.

I would like to watch a full harp run. If you do it, would you skip sailcloth?

I figure I would, as I'm not looking for a full game. I could make an alternate video for cloth route.

The BIT info is a little unorganized. What statues have not been tested yet?
Only bird statues can be used to warp you on the land below, right?

I dont think anyone knows which ones have been tested.
Yes, only bird statues.

Maybe it's time to start a list for each bird statue on Skyloft(all 4), and each area.

I currently screwed up my game with some codes(nothing to do with BIT) and want to start over. I'm about to find out if BIT will help me keep my Hero Mode or not.

I think we tested all the statues.
At least I DID have a long list of all the warps in a text file earlier.
I had entered all the information found from in the thread, and just tested the rest myself.
If there is a warp that isn't mentioned anywhere on the ZSR pages, it is most likely not a useful warp. But feel free to double check everything.

BiT Absolutely will not work for me. I've tried about 50 times, and I'm positive I'm doing it right. I must have tried reseting on every different frame after hitting Continue and it absolutely refuses to work. I have no idea why.

EDIT: Apparently BiT doesn't work if you're in the past. I went back to the present and it worked.

I may eventually make an organized list of every map and statue, even if it isn't important and say which have been tested or not. But someone feel free. I'm busy with school stuff and haven't posed in a while. My last run was 11:45 to the emerald and I did warp in wrong place in skyview, so I quit

Interesting. Wonder why being in the past stops you from wrong warping and/or the title screen.

I guess I should've mentioned this in my vid. You cannot activate BiT in some rooms. It's not fully clear which rooms. Such places include the waterfall cave and Demise.

I would like to get this known to hopefully get people testing again. If you open a door then right away load a file. You will be placed in the map that the door leads to. But XYZ of the file being loaded. That limits it down to any map on skyloft. And Skyloft itself. Now if we could just find a save statue in the king's room..or if whatever reason the warp is still there for skykeep(doubtful though). Also I BIT. Then when i was exiting a room i loaded a new games file. It skipped the opening cutscene and placesed me on the other side of the gates. I'm guessing that would most likely be useless. But for the hell of it i killed myself. Pressed continue. It spawns me at my last savepoint. Which i guess either doesnt exist or its the starting cutscene. So I just froze.

See, all of this has been tested. The loading a new file and loading a room really wouldn't help, because it still requires a file to BiT, and we start with all blank files. But keep working on that line of thought. We really haven't gotten much with loading during cutscenes or transitions, so you're on a good roll

Yes you do start with all blank files, but when going threw, skipping the sail cloth, you cant access the king's room later on. So that means for every statues we have unlocked up to that point, its possible an XYZ would end up in his room. We have no need for any other files.But your most likely right, I've already gone threw most the statues unlocked. One got pretty close but not close enough..

Just thought I'd mention, you also can't BiT at the first room in Skykeep, not that it would be of any use really.

If you start a new game while exiting a door on the eastern part of skyloft. You will load that side skipping the cutscene. You will be on the other side of the women blocking the bridge. There is an invisible barrier across the whole bridge. You can then go to bed and sleep till night. So nighttime on a free file..I couldnt find any use with it though..

Holy shit I just deleted part of skyloft. Okay so what I did was went bit and saved over a file that has obtained the eye to activate skykeep cutscene. I then went over to where i would put eye in. I then loaded file, waited about half a second and pressed A to put it in. I spawned. No crash. Everything was silent. You cant hear link running. If you jump off things it makes this thudding sound as if you had iron boots? I dont know. So i went up over bridge to where the temple was. it got deleted. Its gone. Wtf. Does this mean if differnt cutscenes are loaded as you load a file. Simmalar outcomes are possible? Also the file I loaded was saved to the bird sequence, allowing me to fly around this version of skyloft that is partially deleted. Going over where the load zone for skykeep would be does nothing, either that or i keep missing the right spot.

The goddess statue disappeared? I think that happens normally after you beat Skykeep. Does that mean the game thinks you already beat it? If you leave and reenter or S+Q is the Goddess Statue still gone? Does that mean you can go to Faron and start the demise sequence, thus skipping Skykeep all together?

I think its something more to do with the cutscene failing to play. Its a fake skyloft your loaded into. So leaving the area and comeing back loads normal skyloft, the correct version. S And Q will save you there. But the game acts as if your in the same point storywise. But yes it was a fresh file that had not left skyloft yet. But no flags are hit saying you made it here. So even if we where in a version skyloft that didnt appear till the end of skykeep. I doubt going to sealed grounds would continue the story to after skykeep, but then again you never know..

Also. If you click load and at the last second before it loads, you walk into a loading zone. You will load that file in that area. Would it be quicker to just run in BIT to godess statue entrance load file into there. Pulling sword? Instead of saving in BIT loading the file then running to the statue?

Hmm, very interesting. If it works, it probably is a little faster, as you don't need to save at the bird statue. I'm worried that the trick may be very hard to pull off tho, for the amount of time saved (a couple seconds maybe?). What's the timing window like for this loading trick?

While BIT, what if you load one of your game files while heading into a door(or did you just say this?)?
In your game, what if you Reset the game while heading into a door(or did you just say this?)?

This is two possibilities that may or may not do anything.

Loading a file while another area is being loaded makes that file be loaded in the area you loaded. Little use atm. Possible use may be to enter Goddess Statue in BiT without needing to Save.

Resetting while loading an area results in a crash, iirc. But that may be purely bad timing. Theoretically, you may be able to activate BiT by doing that. Not much better than just dying tho.

I have done it in the goddess statue. It would be faster to do it that way both times. To get the sword. Then to activate the slab after getting your bird back. The timeing on it is pretty easy to pull off. If its a door, Click A to open it then fast click load file. If its a loading zone. Load file and as the screen fades enter zone. So if you time the load on you way to goddess statue you can do it without waisting any time at all. Also I have tried countless times to get BIT off a loading zone. I could never manage to pull it off but I could be messing up the timeing.

That door you said was locked, is it unlocked in BIT mode?
If so then can't you enter his room in BIT mode and load your file?

It remains locked in any mode. Think of it like this, the door starts locked, and it is unlocked by completing the race.

Yes the indoor rooms are locked. But I found out with correct timeing on loading and entering a door. It will take the xyz of the file your loading. But place you in the building. So if we could just find a correct save statue that puts you in his room..

Something funny but useless and most likely already known. If you have your sword out and click a file that has no sword while in BIT. It will cause your sword to become invisible. You can charge it up. But you cannot swing it at all. Also a few ideas. There are plenty of cutscenes while in BIT. So attempt to load one right as the cutscene begins. In theory it might work. It did with Skykeep. Well I think it did. It skipped the cutscene and I believe loaded the area the cutscene actually took place in, thus deleting the goddess statue. I could be wrong on why it happens but I cant think of a better explanation. Also anyone have an idea how long it takes for the cutscene to start up ending BIT? What if you load an area as that cutscene starts?

Also a few things I've noticed. If your a bit early on loading the area while loading a file. It will take your xyz of your save and place you in the area you load. But if you load the are at the very last second after loading a file it takes you to that area but without the xyz. Its all based on timeing. Which makes me wonder other things. I think we need to try every possible angle on this. If we can find another way to load the are we are in but take the xyz of the map we loaded. Maybe im thinking about this wrong. Statues do not load an area, but they do update your xyz. So what are some ways of updateing your xyz without loading a new area? Maybe timeing a load right as you fall off the edge and spawn? Just ideas. Oh and I noticed if you press B right after strikeing the thing on goddess temple but right before the statue comes up. It will cause it not to come up at all. And Pressing B at the last second as your falling stops the cutscene of the invisible guy saveing you but locks you up. But what Im getting at is pressing B at the right time can stop certain effects from happening. I wonder what would happen if you press B right as a cutscene ends that would lock you up. Just theories.

In BIT you save and load a bird statue at the same time.
What if you did it at different times. First save, then a split second later load your file.
Or load your file and a split second later save your game.

I haven't had any luck yet for the door part, but that was before I read that your instructions so I'll try it again.

KingofHeart: That won't work, because load and save commands are queued. It doesn't matter how fast you load after saving. The game will save, then load as soon as it's done saving. Resetting the Wii is queued with saving too. So saving and reseting will reset the Wii as soon as it's done saving. This is ofc already used in runs. In case you are not a aware; saving in BiT is saves the selected file normally on BiT Skyloft. Which is used to get into Goddess Statue early, skip the sail cloth, and warp from anywhere to Skyloft.

The craziness exists when doing a save and load simultaneously, because the game doesn't know which to do first. Or doing two load commands, since they are not queued with each other. Or saving and deleting (they are both "write" commands), also not queued.

I tried to do door warp thing, but with little luck. I loaded the area and was still in BiT, as if i never loaded the file. My timing is obv very wrong. >_>

Yea, I've known about the pressing B to softlock. I doubt there's anything useful there, but you've already found some interesting stuff in BiT, so won't stop your research!

I got the door thing working and I think I understand what you were saying on how it works.
You tried all 4 saving statues, right?

Timing is everything for the door version you want to load after clicking A to open door. And if you cant get it to work, try moving the file your loading to a different save,then attempt again. I've had it happen one time where I could never get the door load to work so I moved to a different statue and it started working for some reason(I am not sure why it works like this. As for entering loading zones, its much easier to get the timing down. And you can load a file then save, you just have to be fast to pull it off, it skips the saving part altogether and makes it so you cannot use your menu. Saving at a statue while in this state fixes that though. Also just for tests, I moved my nulled file into the cutscene where link puts on his tunic after waking up. No dice there, he instantly died after the cutscene played. I also attempted to move it to the point where your leaving goddess statue hoping to trigger the zelda cutscene, Cutscene did not play, and he just died instantly. And remember there is few different timings when loading an area. The results I've seen so far are loading the area but your still in BIT(you are way to early on entering the loading zone after loading), Loading the area but your on your file(your timed it perfectly), and loading the area but taking the xyz of your save(you are somewhat early on hitting the loading zone). Now keep in mind in this method of warping you are not limited to the 4 statues on skyloft, but until we can take BIT into other areas, it is really limited. Most likely possible use is if we find a save that would warp u into the mayors room, but keep in mind he is on the 2nd floor so a save would have to be pretty high up. Oh and if you pay atention to the Press A button while in BIT it pops up 26-28 times before playing the intro cutscene, with that in mind I was trying to load a different area as it starts up, I pulled it off one time but it ended in a freeze(but this was entering an area that would have frozen anyways.) I will keep messing with this.
lol. Figured out how to Mute your game, Press A to watch the instuction movie then enter a cutscene, everything is muted, even when you load another file. Also the home menu is deleted. Saveing at a statue does not give it back either lmfao..

Going to test shortly but do different doors in Skyloft school give different results?
I plan on picking a statue that can get me the closest in the school, then will load my file for every door possible in the game.

All a door does is load that area. Your save is what choses the xyz location. Also cutscenes do have different areas. I loaded the file as the cutscene after you withdraw goddess sword. It loaded me in A "silent" version of the goddess statue. It took my xyz so i ended up out of map, but if it where the real goddess statue, there would be sounds playing. I will try to attempt to get into the godess statue fake. And seeing as that worked..I am almost certain other cutscenes will so my idea is, place the stone, activating the Faron area, and loading a file at the same time, In theory you would load a file that takes place on the map of the cutscene. Ill attempt these and post the results shortly.

I think I figured something out, maybe everyone knows this. Besides saving at different statues, you can position yourself at different locations next to the statue.
So I wonder if there are any statues where you fall when you save right against the statue verses a few pixels away from the statue.
Also, if there is any way to activate the statue and get a good amount of distance away, it might load more possibilities.

edit: Can you even get into the school during BIT? Twice I tried and it froze with a black screen. I can load a file before it freezes but I just want to get in normally.

If it where possible to open the statue from far away it would greatly increase our WW locations. But there is not a way as far as I know. What we need is another method of updateing our xyz but on the map of our file. Which does not seem likely from all the testing that has been done. But then again you never know..

I'm currently looking into that. Using cheats I saved way up in the air, and now when I load the file I start up high in the air. So it's definitely a fact.

Hmm Just an idea I had, If you copy/delete a file, then save, so the copy/delete action happens before the save action, does it allow movement? If so we could stall the save..seems doubtful though..OMG i started a new game as goddess sword cutscene started, This time the cutscene actually played omg. Because there was no previous XYZ location. Holy shit if the same effect works with skykeep ill shit myself.

Omgomg skykeep cutscene is playing on a new file omfg. Battaries dies right as it started. Someone test this out please. Have one file with skykeep open, one file not started. Do BIT save over file with skykeep open/you have the eye. Now pick up a fruit spawning your inventory, Now walk up to the statue. Press A to load your new file and right as it loads file run foward and press A on the statue. Cutscene will play on a new game~ Good news and bad news. Skykeep is open but no way to get to it, and since the game now thinks your at that point, there is no way to get your bird back. But I have a theory..what if it doesnt have to be a new game? What if it can be any file that when loaded plays a cutscene(like link wakeing up from bed) if that where the case we could activate it later on down the line..Sadly all this is pointless seeing as it loads data from a file further in the game :\

Okay so it doesnt have to be a new file thank god, as long as the file your loading starts in a cutscene(which we can make any file like that by placing slab in bit). So we can open skykeep at anypoint. Also I skipped the GS. Just loaded a file right as cutscene starts opening faron. File has to start in a cutscene. Now your swordless, and do not have the bird but I do have other theories to skip needing the bird to fly alltogether, Ill get testing on em right away.

Allright it worked, Kinda, you still need a file that has the bird unlocked but anyways. I think I've come up with a faster route, and skip zelda's cutscene. First off start a new file. Die, BIT. Creat a corrupt file. Now enter a building/exit a bulding while loading a file. You will be outside In real skyloft. Go activate cutscene to get bird to spawn. S an Q. Activate BIT. Head to cave, either load the file as you enter cave or exit it, does not matter which(I dont think). Now save bird, when prompted to save and quit. Activate BIT again. Head to goddess statue. Now you could do one of two things depending if skipping the sword will fuck you over or not. Either load a file as you enter goddess statue(if you want to get the sword) pull it out and put in slab, or if you want to skip sword, actually now that i think about it skipping the sword will take longer then getting it because you would have to load the file, pull the sword, leave go past zeldas cutscene, S and Q, come back in BIT, activate slab as you start a NEW file. S and Q. go BIT save over your file with bird, Jump off ledge, call bird, as you do load file, you will be in the sky with out ever getting the bird. Obviously skipping the sword would be stupid in a speedrun, even if it wouldn't screw you over(which im sure it will). But hey, if it doesnt, I'd love a swordless challenge :3

Also skykeep as soon as you get hookshot(aginst rules do to haveing to use data from a file further ahead). But all you do is get hookshot, S and Q. BIT. Go to goddess statue, place slab while in BIT(make sure you load area with a file selected that hasnt placed first slab). Click a file that has Sword(assuming the one I just mentioned doesnt have it). Skyward strike thingymabob(no clue what it is, whatever makes the slab pop up). Let cutsene play, when promted to S and Q(make sure your hookshot file is selected). BIT again. Save over a file that has unlocked skykeep/has the missing eye. Grab fruit, make sure you have the correct file selected. Go infront of statue, but not too close to it. Press A to load your file that just got Hookshot. Run foward and press A on statue, If timed correct, you will load your file but the cutscene will play. Skykeep early :D Stupid rules tho >.>

Edit: Major flaw in this route i did not realize. You still need your sword to rescue your bird..but you could always grab the training one along the way..

Uh...make a video...got confused. ;)

No way of recording but which part did you get confused by? Basically, when you load a file right as a cutscene starts, you are placed on the map that cutscene took place in. But if the file your loading has a cutscene when you start it up, it confuses the game and plays the cutscene you activated BIT. Doing different cutscenes can lead to skipping the sword, and early skykeep(we still need hookshot, and since you cannot activate the statue while In BIT enless you have the items loaded of a file that has unlocked skykeep its aginst the rules to use that data). Plain in simple, BIT. Use saveing and fruit to spawn B button and items. Go up to statue. Press A to load a file that will cause a cutscene(ie a new game or the cutscene where link wakes up). Run up to statue and press A. Pressing A too early causes a freeze, but the timeing is not that bad.

If someone would be kind enough to record these finds i would be much appreciated.

Random idea, what if I warp into the training grounds cutscene, would i spawn flying or would i fall infinitly lol

lol first dead end with skipping the sword is right when you get to sealed grounds lmao..

Also I have a theory for anyone who did the harp run. Go BIT, put in slab, select your harp file. Save and quit when it prompts you to. Go Bit again. Pull sword from pedastal, click your file before you charge it. Charge it. When text box is done, press A to continue and Press A to load file at the same time. You will be placed in the goddess chamber with zelda's dad. It could be a long shot but then again you never know till you try:\

Even if that theory fails I have another one that will get your sailcloth back, but would defeat the purpose of skipping it in the first place.First off you need to put your file into the waking up cutscene. You also need a file still in the race save. BIT. Save over your harp file, or race file, either should work. Before jumping off bridge make sure the race file is selected. Jump off, fly, enter the training ground thing. Once it is about to end, you need to click load on your harp file. (File has to load right as cutscene for race starts). It should work just like any other cutscene warp. (have not gotten around to testing it but see no reason why it shouldn't). Finish race. Get sailcloth. Do jump into circle thing. After that just say fuck you to fi when she wants you to follow her. Lol even if she asks you to follow her but even if that where the case all you would have to do WW into a room with a bed. Which I guess would save some time because you don't have to follow fi? Like i said I have not tested this, let alone much at all with training grounds/race. So i honestly don't know. But hopefully my first theory works out.

Also dont skip the bird. Its a waiste of time, because you have to BITW every time you want to leave. You can land in other zones because they dont require dpad down.  But you would be screw'd over when you have to fight the flying whale.(don't know his name, nor do i care).

Also anyone have the second or third slab but have yet to place it? I reccomend messing around with those cutscenes while in BIT.

I'll record this later today(assuming it's super easy).
Assuming we only need the hookshot to reach it, I can just float across or give myself hookshot early just for testing.

edit: Haven't recorded but I assumed you meant we can get to Skykeep early, but you only predicted this.
What do you mean by early anyways? Possible to skip the Hero Song quest?

This is a wild guess after reading "Basically, when you load a file right as a cutscene starts, you are placed on the map that cutscene took place in." but I think he means that during BiT we have to load a save file and activate the cutscene that gives you access to skykeep at the same time, and as a result you will be able to enter skykeep on the file you loaded.
We can easily get stone of trials during BiT with http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/loading-data-on-the-title-screen
But this would require you to actually have another save file with the stone of trials, which isn't allowed in a speedrun anyway. Unless we can get the stone of trials during BiT without having another file, I can't really remember if this is possible.

This would most likely skip the song quest if it is possible, but it would only be possible with the use of a file that already gave the stone of trials.

If you already have the stone of trials then how is it considered early?
Still working on the timing.

edit: I also plan on recording the different BIT glitches.
First video is the basic BIT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SKIBXEcQU

O man, so much text over the day I was out >_>. Glad the BiT research grounds are being revived.

First, keep in mind a BiT video already exists: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al4upuRjwCk. Although it is somewhat long and boring. Improvements are welcome, but it is prefered if you add content.

Second, I'm more interested in early Thunderhead than skykeep. I can see of no way to get the stone early with current known glitches. On the other hand, there have been cases of the thunderhead cutscene playing in BiT after getting the harp. One such instance happened right after a Harp Run, so all my other files started empty. This would skip probably about 30 minutes. Unfortunately, that probably also would not work, as that cutscene does not load an area like the skykeep/tablet/sword/etc cutscenes. Worth looking into imo.

Third, as for the lock with skipping the Sail, getting into the headmaster's room is no problem, as his room is never locked. The lock takes place when you need to meet Lavius (The whale/Sky Spirit). The problem is that Instructors Orwel's room is locked, (The guy who teaches you the spiral charge).

Fourth, Corrupt files in weird places has been done before. The cutscene plays, and then you die.

Fifth, As soon as you select Save, the game will "lock" link until the save is done. So you can't delete/save and move around.

I hope I covered everything...
Guys, please read through the entire thread, before posting "new" info.

Can you kinda chill on the theories? It's really a pain to read through all this stuff. Here's something to remember, you can't get your bird in BiT. Exiting caves crashes. At night the bird isn't there.
Placing tablet crashes bit after cutscene. If you save at the prompt and restart, the following cutscene will occur, but you won't have actually placed the tablet (no column).
Also, focusing on stuff like skykeep "early" is best left as a solo project without too much importance. It's not early, as you could just enter it on your normal file.
I completely agree with TestRunner. Read what he has posted. I may make a complete list of all I know if I have the patience, as I am in San Antonio on vacation today with some spare time.

Another thing, sailcloth skip is not worth all the trouble in any%. The time it would take to skip it and to warp into the instructors room (which I highly HIGHLY doubt will ever work) would certainly be longer than just doing the race, as it would also be helpful to have the sailcloth to take less damage and skip the fairy in Faron. You also wouldn't take damage in eldin getting the mitts. There are many more spots to try BIT, but I think you're all beating a dead horse. Thunderhead early is still worth consideration though.

Also, I have some BiT videos on YouTube. Really there is no point to record stuff again, pretty much just taking credit for other people's work. Get permission first.

Also, something to note, after getting the Sail Cloth normally, S+Q and BiTW to get GS/Tablet. Skips the Follow Fi Sequence. Although the time difference is small, so it may not really matter. You have the sailcloth normally, and the instructor's room should be unlocked. Abahbob is right, any crazy BiT nonsense to get to the instructor will be slower than just doing the race.

Man I wish I had my wii with me. I only brought my n64... I still want to see what happens if you use codes to run from Ghira after he steals your sword. If you could go swordless and there was some effect, then it would be worth it to try BiT crap for sword skip or w/e crazy shit.

Basic BiT Theory:
1. BiT can only be entered from certain maps.
2. The BiT map has the same loading zones as the normal map.
3. The BiT map allows you to enter, but not exit other maps (with few exceptions)
4. Sleeping in a bed while in BiT will take you to the normal skyloft night map.
5. Normal daytime skyloft is not accessible with the Title Screen open.
6. Loading files at correct times can allow you to warp to the coordinates of your previous save on the map you are entering.
7. Saving and loading files at the same time will warp you to the map you are loading, at the coordinates you are at when you save.
8. The bird does not exist in BiT Skyloft.
9. Placing the tablet with the Title Screen open will crash after the cutscene in the Academy.
10. Saving after placing tablet with Title Screen open will save you in the academy scene normally after the cutscene and you will get the pouch, but after exiting the academy, you will be in the original version of skyloft and the tablet will not be placed anymore.
11. Loading, Saving, and map transitions are all closely related.

I think I found a new speed run glitch. I want to test it myself first but if it works it should save at least 30 seconds, maybe more depending on how many times it can be used.

THE SUSPENSE IN KILLING ME!!!

NVM, I've should of known it would fail.

I assumed that since we could skip locked doors, that we could use that key anywhere.
Second theory that I'm not going to bother with but you can. If a dungeon has two locked doors and the first one is skippable, could you use the key on the second door?

Keys are dungeoun/area specific. I say are because the goron key for sand sea and the lanayru gorge keys work also. The second theory is proven.

Yea, that was already known. Although the key for the gorge and the Sand Sea are interchangeable. I guess the game considers them the same dungeons or something. You can use any key obtained in a dungeon on any door in the dungeon. So you could skip the first door and use the key on the second door. Unfortunately, there is no place where that is useful.

Edit: Dangit, Abahbob beat me to the punch!

My theory about "if we could go through the wall" gets you the harp early.

I think the problem with that though would be that even if you could skip LMF and get harp you still need the bellows in other places i think, so it would be like skipping sailcloth, useful in a harp run but a dead end in any%

Well all early ToT attempts have failed ion the past. If you can get it to work though, that would be great. You can just do it after you get the bellows. Sure to save like 7 minutes from skipping the second half of LMF. And in a Harp run, it would save like 25 minutes. All wishful thinking I'm afraid.

If you could avoid needing the Bellows until Bokoblin Base you could get away with it, but that might be a bit of a stretch.

Theres that one miniboss type guy in the desert thats buried in the sand that you need bellows to fight so I dont think its possible to skip, even if you could get harp w/o LMF.

I never said anything about skipping the wind item, just everything else.

If by everything else you include the first two temples, you can't get to lanayru before them
If you just mean the second half of LMF then okay. Good luck getting over the wall haha

If you could get early ToT, you would go through the dungeon backwards, skipping the entire Lanaryu Desert Section. But again, this is all theoretical. First find a way into ToT, then we can talk about how it is sequence breaks. It is clear it would be worth it, but it's probably impossible with current known glitches.

You couldnt go through backwards, as 1. the cart is on the other side and 2. entering moldarach drops you in infinite loop i believe

We discussed this about 2 months ago.
It is not possible to skip all of lanayru desert, however, back then we had a lot of theories.
This was my route theory if we could get ToT early:
First get ToT early while being OoB to reach the OoB owl statue in ToT.
Wrong warp with that statue (not BiTWW just regular wrong warp)
This took you to the stone cache or w/e the building is called.
Continue all the way to the gust bellow.
Exit LMF and use the owl statue to get to ToT.
Enter and exit the back entrance to get the harp.

This didn't work since we couldn't find a way to access ToT in its OoB state.

My second theory was to just access the north section of the desert, enter LMF, get the gust bellows, exit.
Then take the north-west path to ToT and somehow get over the broken wall.
Then just enter and exit the back entrance to get the harp.

I have been very close to get up onto the broken wall at ToT, like a few pixels away, but it just wasn't enough.
If we could perform a highjump anywhere, I'm pretty sure we could get over.

The thing is that this only would save a few minutes now that we have the BiTWW in LMF. It is still a decent timesaver though.

Where do you next need gust bellows? Sand sea? That feels wrong.

You need Gust Bellow to turn the windmills in Skyloft to obtain the Harp. So pretty much right after LMF.

Oh yeah. Forgot bout those

What did you do to get yourself close to the wall?
On the right side of the wall, part of it sticks out(not the white part, the brown wall) near the right corner next to the TOT wall....so I was able to do a double run up.

In the 4th dungeon you used zombies to get a little higher. Would regular moblins work the same way? There are two moblins when you first get to this area and make it past.

Well, moblins could get some more height. If anything, the way we will get over will not be at the temple itself, but rather the cliffs around the whole area. Final strike, highflip, idk.

Well, haven't had a chance yet to find out of those areas are solid or not. Hope they are.
Hmm, how would final strike even give us more height for the TOT.

The only way I can think of is if we could push a moblin through a wall.

BTW, when I was in lake floria area. I saw this skull and pushed it straight enough that it went through the wall. I only managed to do this once, and the wall was slanted.
By slanted, I mean this. If you stood against the wall and did a moon jump, you would be pushed back as you went higher.

Well, i have tested the walls around the ToT area. They are solid on top for a long ways out. Still, I don't like talking about this, as it seems so out of reach and its been speculated about since the game first came out. And I believe you mean boboklin, as there are no moblins close to ToT. A boboklin could get height the same way as it does for the basement skip, by doing a final strike with a wall that juts out infront of you. I see no area that would work for this.

Pushing an object through a wall is much more different than pushing an enemy, as enemies are specifically programmed not to go through walls, where objects, as I would guess, are programmed to exist, but aren't worried too much about collisions.

I realize loading data from other files(even threw a glitch) is against the rules in a speedrun. But an exception was made for Oot 3ds. New game+. I was wondering if a similar category could be used in skyward sword useing BIT to load cutscenes from a different file.

Well, NG+ is already used. Starting a race in hero mode is technically NG+. But using other premade files will never be accepted in an official any%/harp run. Perhaps a fun race, but it would need to be a special category.

Loading data from other files isn't against SDA's rules as long as they are created during the run.

For BiT, I can save at a bird statue then go into another area and die there right? For example, I save at a statue in an area with no monsters, go right into a different loading zone and die quickly there.

Most people use the corrupt "insta-death" save to activate BiT

I know that, but I tried to activate BiT in the waterfall cave, (killing link inside) and it did not work.

Some maps just won't work. I think I've got it in the waterfall cave, idk. I know it won't work in the boss trials and demise.

There are a bunch of areas that you can't die in to activate BiT. Some of these places include:

• Inside the Isle of Songs
• The Waterfall Cave
• Sequences
• Bosses

Mind you, you can save in one of these areas (ie the Isle of the Songs) and then go outside to kill yourself to activate BiT. Although mzx was right, in this situation you'd save then load your corrupt file.

So to sum it up, yes you can just go into another area to die.

When I was playing SS yesterday I did make this picture for skyview temple BITWW. I was thinking should we do this for all areas of the game and upload them to SS section of ZSR? That would be much more better in my oppinion than having table to tell where you warp. Same way with this you can also add explanation if that spot is usefull at all and tell if you can use it for something. Is this good idea or is it just waste of time? Numerical order is same as picture on the first page of this forum.

Here is picture what I did:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2vklqbo.jpg)

Hrm, that sounds like a good idea actually. It would be a nice way to tell whether any of the OoB spots are close enough to the level to be almost useful... I never thought of checking the map when I used them <.< But yeah I'm all for it.

This sounds like a great idea. I would help contribute if my little bro didnt delete his file on the game (put over 200 hours into it just to delete it and start over, even though there was still a blank file -_-)

I love it the idea, but this will be so much work, lol. The table was already really tedious. I guess it shouldn't be a problem if lots of people work on it though. Heh, I wonder if you can just do one of the bitWarps and then figure out the other 3 by relative coordinates.

One thing that that would be nice is maybe color coding? Like Red dot OoB and Green dot in-bounds. Oh also, adding lines to separate the different Areas of the dungeon would be really good. It would make it much easier to visualize.

(sandship is gonna hard to do)

I was rethinking this and it need much work to do. Now if I think of it I prefer table more and if that WW have any use then just add little explanation for it. Of course this picture thing is also good if lots of peoples are willing to do it!

EDIT:
I started to doing those pictures of maps and where you warp. I'm taking screenshot from emulator and editing them. It's pretty quick to with savestates and emulator. I have done few areas already. I colored them red for oob and green for inbounds and where you can move. Here is one example. Don't mind blurry numbers. Tinypic screwed them up.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/eam8fc.jpg)

Pictures are way more helpful.
Also, if possible it would be nice if someone could test one statue, and easily coordinate where the other statues will put you(use a different color since it's still untested).
It be so much faster.

You cannot test them like that. You need to test each statue separately. Read this topic: http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=1049.0

I edited and tested all possible bit warps last night in this game and edited maps. Be sure to comment them and if something can be done better. I hope those turn out to be usefull!

EDIT: I found this from skykeep. Does this help us to skip map in this dungeon? Somebody should test this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS1LXByAhX4

EDIT2:
This really needs to be tested more! You can active skyloft tower early in new file. I hope we can open storm cloud with this someday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNd-3e6z28g&feature=youtu.be

I did a lot of tests for the light tower early trick and this is what I've found:
Where you've saved before BiT doesn't matter, what matters is whether or not the file have unlocked the light tower. (I tried saving at multiple places)
The BiT file that you load can be created beforehand, so you can have a premade unused BiT file available, you do not need to save during the process of the light tower early trick. It appears that the file have to be unused though.
I think the key requirements for this trick is:
You loaded night skyloft using a file that have already unlocked the Tower of Light. (Kazooie said that it only works during the night. I haven't checked myself)

So, I optimized the trick into this:
Have a file that have unlocked the Tower of Light in slot 1.
Have a unused BiT file in slot 2.
Activate BiT.
Enter Pipit's House. (I use this house because you're always able to sleep in it, no matter which file you've selected)
Make it night.
Exit House while file 1 is selected.
load file 2.

The Tower of Light cutscene will activate.

So for now it seems like we have to actually have a file that have unlocked the tower already, which means that it won't be allowed in speedruns.

___________________________________

Also, we need a list of cutscenes that activates during BiT depending on which statue you save at. Some people may not be aware of it, but different statues results in different cutscenes during BiT.
Saving outside of Skyview Temple before BiT will for example cause the Cloud cutscene to start when you select that file during BiT.
And saving outside of Earth Temple before BiT will cause the Cloud cutscene and Batreaux door to trigger when you roll into the tree.
etc.

For regular speedruns, certainly. I get the idea that it may be feasible for NG+, but maybe not. Worth investigating.

Okay, this sounds like a good idea. This was mentioned and thought through a long time ago, but not thoroughly tested. If we are going to start testing these cutscenes with different statues, let's make an organized list. Idk how it will be, but I just don't like going in circles like with the bitwarp testing.

If we make a list of cutscenes it'd be something like:
Forest Temple (that's the name of the statue outside of skyview temple) Statue:

• File Selection (when you enter the menu and the file is in slot 3, or you select the file): Thunderhead Opening
• Tree (when you roll into the tree that causes a cutscene to trigger): ...
• Box (when you move the box): ...
• Bench (when you sit on the bench that triggers a cutscene): ...
• Cave (If I recall correctly, you can trigger cutscenes by going to the cave entrance. I sliced the tree and a cutscene started, I think.): ...
• Bird State (When you stop interacting with a bird statue you can trigger cutscenes): ...
• Grave Stone (Roll into the stone and push it. You have to do it during the night if I recall correctly): ...

It may also be possible to get different cutscenes by inserting the stone of trials, or walking into the sheikah stone trigger.
I'm not sure, but I think interacting with different bird statues gives different results.

If all these are possible, a table for each statue would look something like this:

Earth Temple	Result
File Selection	None
Tree	BAtreaux Gate, Thunderhead
Box	Unknown
Bench	Unknown
Cave	Unknown
Grave Stone	Unknown
Stone of Trials	Unknown
Sheikah Stone	Unknown
Bird Statue (Bazaar)	Unknown
Bird Statue (U Academy)	Unknown
Bird Statue (L Academy)	Unknown
Bird Statue (Cave)	Unknown

So we'll basically have a list of each and every statue in the game, and then what happens when you do all different things that can trigger a cutscene during BiT... It will require a lot of testing, and right now it isn't even useful. Like, we can't do anything with the cutscenes.

Edit: There seem to be more than just the statue that affect things. For example, I tried to start the cloud cutscene using deep woods, but it didn't work until after the file had completed the first temple.
And I can't get any cutscenes to start using the earth temple statue on one of my files.

I did little bit reasearch for this awhile ago. To me it make now little bit sense. Still needs more testing though!

When you save in deep woods and your file in on file 3. You will trigger cloudhead opening cutscene byt hitting switch when you enter to skyview temple. If you do it before that in bit any cutscene wont trigger at all. And in eldin volcano if you save before opening dungeon with completed key and roll to tree or move box while in bit. Only cloudhead opening cutscene will trigger nothing else. When you have opened dungeon and go out and save again. Then do bit again and roll to tree or move box you will trigger baetraux door opening cutscene and cloudhead opening cutscenes! This all is gonna make sense soon as you can see.

Bit cutscenes have something do durrent area cutscene what you have watched. Not any flags like opening doors or hitting switches, Not anything like that. Only watched cutscenes and cutscenes only. No some shitty Fi talking :)

EDIT:
I think those cutscene what affects to this are cutscene in that area what you can skip in hero mode. Example when you first time enter dungeon or open it's door it have skipable cutscene in hero file before it. Not yet sure about this but this seems to be the case. So if this is the case and we can find tower opening cutscene spot we could really have tower of light early in new file, just maybe. Go test this guys!

Interesting. Maybe it doesn't depend on the save location. Maybe BiT just reads data from the skip.dat file then?

Kazooie and I did some brainstorming in the IRC and this is what we came up with:

It could be that loading a file during BiT counts as a cutscene trigger, just like rolling into a tree, or pushing a box.
This would explain why the tower of light cutscene starts after you load that file.
This is what I think anyway.

After that I went to find out why we needed a unused BiT file for this to work. At first I thought the file had to be in BiT skyloft, but that idea was scrapped after I tested this on a unused BiT file that was located in the regular night skyloft instead and it still worked.

So then I started looking at the theory about the save file having to saved right before a cutscene trigger. Like for example after the loftwing training. If you save here the game expects a cutscene to start the next time you load it.

So Kazooie tried this theory and it still didn't work.

Then we tried to do this after performing a BiTW on the file. (So that link isn't standing on the ceremony cutscene trigger)
Aaaaand it worked.
So, yeah, we do not have to activate the tower of light on unused BiT files now.

I don't know if I forgot anything, but it should explain why and how we think it works.

Confusing...hoping for a video soon so I can see how this works.

I haven't tested this, but perhaps it is map flags of some sort. With outside Earth Temple, it needs to be tested without keys, with keys, and with door open. Should provide some basis. Damn, this reminds me of FWWW or w/e that crap is. I must say that this is a good thing to spend some time on, especially if we can get some stuff to transfer, but there is still much more to work on. I'll try to get the bitwarp pictures up soon, hopefully will help with other stuff.

Activate light tower early without using a new file (which makes it possible in hero mode)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYT1DaCP8bc

That's confusing. When you say possible, your not talking about legit speedrunning.

I said that it is possible to load it in hero mode. Something being possible has nothing to do with it being allowed in speedruns. =/
And I do mention that it isn't allowed in speedruns with all caps in the video description on the first row.
And the fact that the glitch is all about loading a file that have already unlocked the tower. that should speak for itself.

I keep seeing this and thinking of other glitches, like in DK64 where you can load the weapons from multiplayer into the main story, which is counted as NG+. Is there anything that would make this not get the same treatment?

The Funky Weapons glitch in DK64 counts as new game + because it involves the cutscene theater and minigame arena, which must be unlocked before they can be accessed. If there were a way to do the glitch without those, it would not be classified as new game +. Basically, NG+ involves using an unlockable mode or feature that may or may not involve transferring stats or items from previous playthroughs. You still have to beat the game from start to finish, so transferring game progress through a glitch is not allowed.

So do this means we can have NG+ category for SS. Or does SDA or some other things accept that kind of category at all? Or can we use that category in race example?

New game + in Skyward Sword would be Hero Mode. Things like the glitch to raise the Light Tower wouldn't be allowed.

What is it that makes it so that light tower early isn't NG+ when the stuff in DK64 is? I really do not see the difference to be honest.
Why is for example newgame+ in OoT3D allowed when early light tower isn't? I do not understand that either. =/

Okay, I see. So Funky's weapons just involves something that was unlocked by a separate file rather than actually taking data from that file; the thing it takes data from isn't an actual file. Meanwhile Light Tower actually does require taking data from an existing file.

CloudMax, does this explain  the difference?

Well, if you do the blank file dupe method, but instead of copying, you play, then you can get progress and save and it still says it's a blank file. Wouldn't that be similar to oot3d? It still shows the opening scene and stuff, but it is pretty similar to OoT3D.

The game data on the system as a whole is what makes it NG+, not just the individual file. NG+ comes originally from Chrono Trigger where you got ALL data from a previous file. I agree with Cloudmax. There's no reason to not allow light tower early and skykeep early in NG+.

On a side note, I would not consider Hero mode as NG+ since the gameplay is basically the same as normal except that you can skip cutscenes.

Duped files are boring. You can have a file that starts right before Demise. I wouldn't really count that as a real run.

Well, I was making a point. I would consider Hero mode NG+ because of the items carrying over, not the cutscenes.

Duped files would be so boring, it wouldn't really be much of a run.

If we were allowed to get early light tower and early sky keep we would be able to skip the light tower quest, fire sanctuary and hero song quest, right?
We would play up until the bow and then go to sky keep right away.

I have a few other ideas in mind that I haven't tried yet.

What you mean by skykeep early? Is there really way to get there early or are you just demostrating some routes? Sorry to ask such a dump question. And it seems there was litte arguement about tower of light early trick to being allowed in NG+. So it is allowed then? I don't really know what to say about this :/

I believe he was talking about having a duped blank file up to skykeep. Bleh we need a name for this and a page about it, even though it really isn't too useful.

For counting any of this as NG+, I say there is almost no way it would ever be counted, unless it could be done without a file up to that point, such as making a file, getting to let's say Faron, then using it to do early light tower. All this is theoretical of course.

While I was looking for rupee farming tricks during my first playthrough WAAAAAAY back in november, I noticed that if you kill all the enemies within the owl statue's loading barrier, they do not respawn when you reload. Could it be that this game treats statue saving like a savestate, as MM did? Sorry if this has already bren brought up (too lazy to read from beginning) or is already known, but I think actually understanding how saving works in this game may somehow help us with unlocking the secrets of BiT.

Well, I doubt it works like a savestate. That would probably stop BiT from working actually. It most likely stores separate variables and loads them, hence why you can save and load right and teleport to a different map with same coordinates. Have you checked where certain enemies appear after saving and such? BiT really doesn't have many saving mysteries. It's mainly the title screen mode that has so many questions and quirks to it. BiT itself has no secret of how it works about activating. The game loads you when you hit continue, then loads the title when you hit reset. That's the simple explanation, there are more technical reasons aswell.

I still don't think Hero mode is NG+. The fact that treasures carry over doesn't affect the run very much. If can find a way to make all the files during the run, it's not NG+, it would be completely legitimate in an RTA. Basically that means that someone would need to find a way to get light tower CS to happen before you actually unlock it.
NG+ would be loading data from other files. So you could open skykeep and light tower early. You'd still need to play through most of the game (get arrows). TBH, it actually doesn't sound that bad, since you play most of the game and skip the boring parts. You could even skip the sail cloth.
A duped file run would be to go straight to demise, since you just have the file start at the last save before him, making it about a 10 minute run.

Screw this talk. We can argue about NG+, but in reality, we don't do RTA that isn't hero mode, so there is no NG+. Anything new with CS early stuff?

It is possible to get skykeep early by loading data from a file that have unlocked the stone of trials.
You have a file with stone of trials unlocked.
Now just like with light tower early you have to save at a same prompt while playing through the game.
After saving, activate BiT and BiTSave over the file with stone of trials unlocked. This will give you stone of trials during BiT.
Now go to the statue where you insert the stone. Load the file that saved at a save prompt and then insert the stone when the screen is fading out.
Just like with the light tower early, you will load the file and activate the cutscene.

This should work with all cutscenes that you can activate during BiT.

It is possible to start the opening thunderhead CS before it is unlocked on any file. I can provide a vid if you want. If we can find a way to load that CS on a file... But more importantly I feel as though this shows that it is possible to start CS in BiT before they are unlocked. Maybe it is possible to find a way to start the opening Light Tower CS early too. Although this may be just the crazy workings of BiT and one big dead end :/

Dunno if this was known or not.

Yes, I know that it is possible. Just save in deep woods after opening the entrance to skyview temple and you'll trigger the thunderhead CS whenever you select that file during BiT. (There is already a theory out there for why this happens, and it seems to be pretty solid)

And I noticed something that could ruin the theory about being able to start any cutscene by loading a file at the same time.
I think the reason it worked with skykeep is because it actually seem to load a new scene when you trigger it. The screen fades out, just like it does when you enter a loading zone. So it may not be possible to do this with any cutscene after all.

So, even if we can trigger some cutscenes without having actually unlocked them on any file, we may not be able to actually load them on a file, and only in BiT.

Also, has someone been able to load skyloft with the skykeep entrance present during BiT? I do not care if you can reach it or not, I just want to know if someone has been able to load that skyloft at all, like during the night or w/e. Trying to watch the skykeep cutscene during BiT will just crash the console, so that's a no go. And I haven't been able to enter Night Skyloft during BiT with a file that have skykeep unlocked selected.
If so, how?

Also, watching the Skykeep cutscene on a file apparently unlocks Stone of Trials.

Btw, I got it to work while I was in Earth Temple. It triggered when you load data from a file in BiT and then select and cancel a bird statue. Or you could do it many the other ways; like push a the box roll into the tree, open the graveyard, etc. I am not really sure if it would go anywhere, since it doesn't load a new area like in Skykeep. But we did manage to load CS before they happen. So I'll probably work on one of two things. Either find a way to load the thunderhead CS onto files, or start the Early Light Tower CS early.

I don't have a file at that point, so I can't test the skykeep in night BiT. There are so many things that seem to affect what happens and whether it crashes or not. Not sure if it's just the fact that skykeep is open is what's crashing or if there is something else. New files will crash, and the file I had in Earth Temple crashed, but my new 0-char file did not crash.

A clean BiT file will not crash if you have it selected and exit a house during the night. A 100% file that have saved outside of fire sanctuary doesn't seem to crash either (works for both me and kazooie). Anyway, the fact that we're able to load cutscenes before actually unlocking them on a file has been known for a long time (and we both know that), and we can't seem to use them to actually transfer the data over to a file, which sucks... I think it'll only work with cutscenes that have transitions.

Also, I did some testing and I think that I accessed night skyloft during the day, or something. It is messed up anyway.
The file had skykeep unlocked early, it was on a file that had just saved the loftwing. But when I accessed this weird skyloft skykeep wasn't present (but the statue was facing skykeep as if it was unlocked, and the stone was inserted).
There were torches all over skyloft, and they were lighted up, as if it was night.
No NPCs present. There was however a bat outside of the goddess statue entrance.
The bars blocking the goddess statue were spawned.
It basically looks like I am in the Fi Night Escort, but it is day. Kinda messed up.

Edit: after looking around further I'm pretty sure that I'm in the Fi Escort, but it is day. Exactly the same actors are loaded. It is so weird that it is day though.

Edit2: I entered and exited a house. The game now thinks that I've finished the ceremony.
If I try to enter the sky I start to fly around fake skyloft. I can't dismount from the loftwing because I haven't unlocked the ability to do so yet. (what many don't know is that you unlock this & Fi when you insert the first stone tablet)
I also have access to the loftwing training by flying into the loading zone (this is possible until you've inserted the first stone tablet. After inserting the first tablet, the regular loading zones that takes you to the sky appears.)
After accessing the training again the game goes back to thinking that I haven't won the race yet. (and the race will trigger)

Edit3: I managed to unlock light columns early, but it requires files that have already unlocked the tablet pieces.
I noticed some interesting stuff when doing this. If you do not activate the first tablet piece first (and start with the 2nd one for example), when you insert the piece, the game will act as if it was the first piece after the red light column has activated and you'll start the cutscene that takes you to the academy. HOWEVER, the cutscene's bugged. Fi and the fat guy isn't there and the camera get stuck under the ground and it seemed like nothing was happening for like half a minute, after that i decided to skip the cutscene and it properly took me to the save prompt. Everyone wil act as if you're about to leave skyloft, even though you activated the red column.
Only the red column was activated after this since you used the 2nd tablet piece.
I went back there and attempted to insert the 1st piece. The 3rd piece spawned when I tried to insert the 1st one while the 2nd one was already inserted. The green column spawned and no cutscene started after that. The 3rd tablet piece is also gone. Links sound's also muted. You could hear the sword and such, but links voice was gone. (it probably changed to the bokoblin soundset just like it did with the statue wrong warp I found. I could not test the fall damage sound though, so I can't confirm this).

Being able to unlock columns early means that it is possible to skip the skyview and earth temple bosses. And being able to skip the earth temple boss means that we just have to grab the bomb bag and then leave.

We could actually go and get mitts & bombs before skyview temple. I do not think this'd be useful unless we find a trick that requires bombs though, since we have to get slingshot first, or the game will just softlock when you get an item.
And you can't use the Hook Beetle unless you have the regular beetle, which sucks. If the regular beetle wasn't required we could just have skipped skyview temple entirely.

I'll see if I can upload some videos tonight. My brother's currently playing Sc2 on the computer that I use for recording...

Great stuff you have there guys! Sadly all of those tricks is not allowed in speedrun and races which sucks. I read all new posts and didn't understand much. Video would make much more sense if somebody can upload some. I really wanna understand this thing :)

That day thing is weird, but then again so is BiT. Like when you activate the opening thunderhead CS in bit night, it turns day halfway through the CS. I can't walk around to see what changed, since you get soft locked.

Looking forward to that vid of the early Light pillar, sounds awesome. NG+ runs seem to be getting more and more interesting to me. You would only need to beat AC and SK. It's a shame you'd still need Gust Bellows for that SK room. I wonder if we could do something interesting with the Emerald pillar early. Cause then that would be legit in a non-NG+ run, since it takes only about 4 minutes to place the tablet. My guess is no, but we'll see.

I'm in a bit of trouble..

So I can't seem to figure out how I raised the pillar yesterday. Now I have to use a file that's quite far into the game to trigger the Fi conversation in the Goddess Statue and then select a file that hasn't come quite far into the game yet (any file that haven't inserted the 3rd tablet yet seem to work) during the Fi conversation to make it raise.
Not only that, it seems like this removes my tablet pieces during BiT so that I can't insert them anymore. This is a problem. The solution I came up with for this is to kill myself with bombs so that the room is reloaded and I get the pieces back. This works, sure.

So, all this works, but there's a problem with it..
It requires a file that have inserted all 3 tablet pieces already, which means that we only can perform one early light column per run.
And it also requires bombs so that you can kill yourself, which means that we only can do it for the 3rd light column... It is the one that saves the most time, but unless I can figure out how I managed to get the pillar out of the floor without my 100% file, we won't be able to perform it on the 2nd column. :S

This is what I do now:
I save at a save prompt on the file that I want to get early light column on.
Start BiT
Enter the goddess statue with the file that have all 3 tablet pieces selected.
Select my 100% file to trigger the Fi conversation.
Select the file with the 3 tablet pieces and when the Fi conversation finishes, the pillar raises from the floor.
I now pull out bombs to kill myself while the file with all 3 tablets is selected.
I choose continue. I now have all 3 tablet pieces.
I insert the tablet piece and wait until link have inserted the tablet piece and stands still, then count to 3, and load the file I want to get early light column on.

This sucks because I have to kill myself AND it requires a file that have already inserted all 3 pieces...

I'll make a video of it anyway and hopefully I'll be able to figure this out...

Edit: Inserting the 1st tablet piece after the 3rd one will crash the game/console. It didn't crash when I did the same thing with the 2nd piece instead of the 3rd one yesterday.

Edit2: Screw everything I said about needing a file that had inserted all 3 tablets, blah blah blah. It is obviously related to the area where the file has saved, just like when you trigger cutscenes in Skyloft during BiT... Saving outside Fire Sanctuary (after finishing fire sanctuary) will trigger one of the Fi conversations when you select the file in the Goddess Statue.
I'll look more into this.

Edit3:
Early Light Column: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96B-Rwgrlk
Fi Escort During Day (on any file): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md8gBcPZR4E
Early Skykeep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGab4Y-ykrU

Can you do thunderhead early right away and get the first song before the first trip to faron?  You won't have the harp so you couldn't do the trial first trip, but it could save a trip later on.

What theory is that?

Just opened the thunderhead early without using a preexisting file... that means speedrun-legal. Play up til Skyview, open the door, then go back outside and save in Deep Woods. Do BiT, go to a bird statue, and activate it and select your file saved outside Skyview at the same time. Then save, and shortly after the "Saved." message pops up, load the file. When the file loads you'll find the Tower of Light raised and the thunderhead open. Pretty sweet. I'll get a vid up soon.

This seems sufficiently confusing enough that I'd rather not do any more SS attempts til we have the most optimal place to do this though <_< In case you don't have to be saved in Deep Woods right after opening Skyview.

Glad this was finally found. Having to load pre existing files is silly.

It's still only for the thunderhead though, the other cutscenes might still require another file.  Though this at least gives hope that the others might be possible too.

Turns out the save is unnecessary, just load a file right before the cutscene starts playing (doesn't even have to be saved in Skyloft) and the thunderhead will be open on that file. You just have to queue it behind another cutscene to give you time to select the file before it starts playing. The fastest way to do it is to load the file right at the end of the cutscene that plays every time you do BiT :P

Yeah, that's the whole point of the glitch.
You have to load a file right before a cutscene starts.
Also, whether or not you've saved before a cutscene gives different effects. (I noticed this 2 days ago when I got the Fi Escort During Day thingy).
For example, if I were to load a file that have saved at a cutscene save prompt before loading at a light column cutscene, I will watch that cutscene on the file that I load.
However, if I were to do it on a file that isn't saved at a cutscene before doing this, I instead end up in skyloft with all the actors from the Fi Escort loaded.

This also explains why kazooie and i didn't find the early light tower and thunderhead. When we were looking for it we thought that the file had to be located at a save prompt for early light tower to work, and you've now proven that that isn't the case. Whether or not you've saved before a cutscene seems to give different results though. (this is important to remember).
It is impossible to pull off what you did if you had saved at a save prompt, because I tried to do what you did, but with a file located at a save prompt instead a few days ago.
I queued the cutscenes by saving outside deepwoods and selecting that file in BiT, and then load another file before the saving was done. This didn't work, because when I selected the file at the save prompt, it clears the cutscene queue in BiT, so it wont trigger after I'm done saving anymore. You can cancel cutscene queues by simply selecting another file that wouldn't trigger them, before they actually trigger.

I still do not believe that it will be possible to get early skykeep and light columns, because they are triggered in quite different ways.
The Skykeep cutscene does not work like the light tower, thunderhead cutscenes, etc., you have to actually insert the stone in the statue and you'll load a new scene. (the screen fades out and the cutscene starts), just like with loading zones.
I do not believe it will be possible to trigger that cutscene for this reason.
The light Columns early seems more likely to be possible without another file, but I still do not think it'll be possible, unless we manage to trigger the tablet insert cutscenes (which I doubt is possible)


Oh, and also, the theory we (kazooie and I) had about loading cutscenes in BiT.
We believe that it is related to cutscenes you've watched in the area where you save at. (or possibly flags. I think this is more likely)
This is why for example when you save in deepwoods for the first time, you won't trigger any cutscenes in BiT.
If you activate the Switch outside of Skyview then save in deepwoods, you will trigger a cutscene.

Same goes for Earth Temple. If you save there before opening the temple entrance you won't trigger a cutscene.
If you collect all keys and open it, you will trigger one.

And the list continues. Saving outside of Fire Sanctuary seems to be the most promising one we've found so far, since that one has multiple flags that is set (if it is flags that is used) for each fire you remove, and opening the temple, and entering the temple.

So it is related to cutscenes/flags/something in the area that you saved in. We also discussed that it could have to do with skippable cutscenes only. Like for example, moving a log in deepwoods wont have an effects on the cutscenes that play, but having watched different cutscenes that is possible to skip in hero mode will.

With some testing we should be able to determine which one it is.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Z1XAMcB8E

Alright, this has probably been seen, and said before here, I just haven't seen anything about it.
After you execute a BiT, and you save and load the file, if you reset and open the file up again, you'll be back in Skyloft. I thought that this might be faster than going to a statue and flying back. Just a thought.

Hornlitz: Very old, that should be on the site too. Just load the file shortly after saving rather than doing both at the same time.

Anyway, how do you trigger the thunderhead cutscene with the Earth Temple? I was going to time which was faster but it's not working for me. Tried it before ET, after opening the door, at the save prompt after finishing the dungeon, and manually saved after finishing the dungeon... nothing on any of those.

Well, blame kazooie and me for that then. We said that it happened if you do it after entering the temple.. but it could obviously be related to some trigger way further into the game, like for example the bokoblin base... I never actually tried to do it at earth temple directly after entering it, so I just assumed that that was the case when Kazooie told me so. >_<'


http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/back-in-time-save-bitsave

You actually perform a BiTSave when you BiTWarp because BiTSave is just when you load the file before it has finished saving, so that not all information has been saved yet.


________

Edit1:
Load a file and start the title screen cutscene:
Start BiT
BiTSave over a file (you save so that you have a respawn location set)
Kill yourself
Continue and load at the same time

You will load the file and get stuck in the cutscene that plays at the title screen. (it looks at the sky above skyloft)
_________

You can do the trick that allows you to play on a file and save while the file still says "Hero Mode" and causes the intro cutscene to run without using BiT at all with the use of http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/misc/opening-empty-files. It is extremely simple.
It only works with hero mode though since the game will crash if you try to load a new adventure file.

And this glitch REALLY need a name.. Some people call it NG+.... But that doesn't make any sense because we call hero mode files ng+ as well...
_________

A new way to overwrite files in BiT:
Everything except for the playtime is overwritten (which means that by doing this, it's possible to set your 100% files playtime to 0 minutes.)
1. Have the file you want copy in slot 3.
2. Select the file that you want to overwrite.
3. Die. (A respawn location must be set, and you can't use BiT skyloft. (using BiT skyloft would trigger the title screen cutscene. I enter the goddess statue and kill myself there)
4. Continue and load the file at the same time.
5. Mash A as fast as you can to open up the File Selection.
You will now load the file you selected in step 2, but because you opened the file selection in step 5 the game loaded all the data from file 3 instead.
6. Save.
Even though it loaded all the data from file 3, you DID open the file that you selected in step 2, so when you save, you'll save over that slot instead.
You'll keep the playtime that you had before overwriting the file.

You can copy new hero mode files this way (just place a new hero mode file in slot 3). This works like the glitch I mentioned above where you can save your progress, but the file will still say "Hero Mode" in the selection, and it will trigger the intro cutscene, so this is not a good way to copy hero mode files. The file wont be "clean" anymore.

This is useless, but it is something.

I also tried a variation of the overwrite glitch mentioned above.
In the step where you mash A to open the file select, hold the control stick down so that you'll enter the loading zone to exit the goddess statue.
You'll get the same result except that you spawn in skyloft instead.
What's even more interesting is that when you quit the game now (save & quit or die & quit), you will return to the title screen. you won't return to the file select. So no file will be selected.

So it's not possible to use it to get a Hero Mode file that starts at 0:00 to allow the ingame clock to be accurate?

I guess with all the messing around with files, it wouldn't really be accurate anyway, though.

That save statue before earth temple tiggered thunderhead opening cutscene when I tested it. If I remember correctly. Before opening door to temple and having completed key thunderhead cutscene came when I rolled tree what drops blue rupee or pushing box. And after opening door to earth temple. Batreaux door opening and thunderhead cutscene both started from to rolling to the tree. You can't trigger that cutscene with save staute in BiT.

Hope this helps :)

Nope, sadly it isn't.
Well, I guess it would be possible to reach a save statue in the game without actually changing anything at all on the save so it would be like a unused file (except that the file now have a set respawn location, which does make a difference during BiT), but the time it takes to reach the statue would be counted in the playtime so it would say 0:00, but it would be more like half a minute...
So no, this isn't useable to get a accurate ingame clock.

It's called Duped New Files. http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/BiT/back-in-time-files. Let's not confuse it with NG+, which is referred to using BitLoading. And people, don't call Hero mode NG+, it's just Hero mode. >_>

Also, Parax: THANK YOU!!! Someone finally found a way! This proves that as long as we can find a way to start the CS early, we can load it on the file. Not really sure if early SK or light pillars are possible though, but I'll keep my fingers crossed since those would cut off a huge amount of time.

Dammit. 2 days off. Thats all I take off. Guys, great work. This is such a huge step. I may get back into SS because of how much I hate imp and scrapper. Any known side-effects of A: Skipping windmill/imp stuff, and B: Farores Courage early? I understand that Courage is out of the way and believed to be worthless, but I think it may change some cutscene triggers or something.

I started a new file last night using pretty much all the known skips now.

Sailcloth skip
Early light tower
Early Lake Floria
Countless bit warps

So on and so forth. I activated the light tower as Parax did, and got the song before heading to the desert the first time. I cleared the second silent realm before I stopped and haven't run into anything unusual yet.

Calling it duped new file is just weird, since doing it with the select new file glitch doesn't have anything to do with copying/duping.
And yes, I myself call BiTLoading NG+, but there IS people who call the "duped new file" glitch NG+. No one ever says "duped new file" when talking about it in the IRC, ever.
And yes, Hero Mode should just be called Hero Mode (not NG+ like some people say. They argue that hero mode is ng+ and not bitloading because you keep treasures in hero mode...)

This is why I brought it up. People call everything different things, which is extremely confusing. and it will become even more confusing if we call a glitch "duped new file" when it has nothing at all to do with duping. :/

Trying to define NG+ in Skyward Sword just seems ridiculous. I mean, let's say someone was planning on playing on Normal Mode for some reason. They'd obviously use skip.dat to skip the cutscenes, but that would still entail keeping data that wasn't included in the playthrough in order to get skip.dat activated in the first place. So the only thing that would be considered not some degree of NG+ is Normal Mode with cutscenes, which is just idiotic. I question if there would be any merit to so much as having a Normal Mode category at all, and certainly not one with cutscenes.

While dupe can mean to "duplicate", I was referring to "fool". I call it duped files since you trick the game (or other players) into thinking it's a fresh file when it obviously isn't.



Uhhh. Dumb question: do you mean you played up to the second silent realm, or that you somehow did trials early? Let us know if this indeed works. Hopefully we don't get screwed by scrapper when delivering the water or soup.

Up to. I playied about 5-6 hours yesterday; I suppose I should've mentioned that.

Well, at this point, NG+ shouldn't be decided. Since we are still breaking the game, all any% races should be Hero Mode. Once we get a more defined understanding of the game, a NG+ category can be made. If we call Hero Mode NG+, something could come along later and it would make things even more confusing. So as of now, there should be no NG+. Agreed?

Well, it seems I've reached my first impasse. I assumed I'd have to stop before the Hero's song quest, since I skipped the sailcloth, but apparently nothing ever triggered the gate of time. So I'm told to hit the pillar with a skyward strike, but I can't really do that if it's not there. >_>  I believe Kazooie uploaded a video with it last week, but I didn't think it would be impassible.  So does this mean that we won't be able to skip the first imprisoned fight or is there some other trigger that I've neglected?

Yeah, Kazooie showed that in his video. You can still skip the Imprisoned, you just have to go into Sealed Temple and learn Ballad of the Goddess to raise the gate of time before you go do the Faron silent realm. The game doesn't stop you from leaving before fighting the Imprisoned.

Also I did a 5:56 SS run today using the new skip, so as long as you raise the Gate of Time I can vouch nothing else goes wrong and the game is still entirely finishable.

grats on the sub 6

All right, thanks Parax. So was a way to get into Owlan's room ever discovered so we could do the sailcloth skip without getting stuck?

Nope, you have to get the sail cloth. But you can skip the race intro with BiT, so that saves like a min or two.

Alright, so I found that thunderhead early works after beating skyview temple. I did however go back into the temple, then back out and then attempt it. I don't know if it will work right after the kikwi cutscene. Sorry if this was already mentioned.

Quick update: Sailcloth is unnecessary, unless you want to save yourself some hearts after every large jump. You can travel up vents without any problems. Link just doesn't have a sailcloth to pull out during the animation.

pivotguyDC1: Not quite. Completing the Ceremony unlocks some of the doors inside the Academy. One of these locked rooms is the instructor that teaches you the spiral charge. So you still much complete the Ceremony (and thus get the sail) in order to learn the spiral charge and thus be able to progress. It's really silly reason, but that's how it is, unless we can find a new major skip to to skip the song of hero or Lavius. The item itself isn't required, but the task of obtaining it is.

Pretty confident that Lavius can be beaten with just arrows, it just takes a fuckton of time/arrows to do. If you can get into thunderhead without having to do the spiral charge training you could skip the sailcloth.

Heh heh, Lavius. Spiral charge itself is not required to beat the game, but the task of obtaining is required to progress the story (to get the pumpkin soup). You can use a bomb to skip the first phase of lavius, and then fight him with the sword (arrows optional) for the second phase. It's a shame how trigger based this game is, cause otherwise a lot of items/quests could be skipped.

Yeah, sailcloth skip seems impossible for now. No sailcloth = no Instructor = no spiral charge = no pumpkin soup = no lavius = no song of hero = no win. A way into that room would be helpful. Some other event would hopefully unlock the doors. The only thing I could think of is that playing in a blank game crap and then loading, which would load you into the original academy. If I recall correctly, that one has open doors. But that would be a pain and certainly not worth it.

Also, the doors don't unlock from the ceremony. Finishing the ceremony puts you into Academy 2, which has all the doors locked for the Fi sequence. Finishing Fi puts it into Academy 3. For some reason, skipping Academy 2 and finishing Fi causes the doors to remain locked instead of going to Academy 3.

If you load a file and then trigger a loading zone during the fade-out, you spawn in the new map at the file's xyz coordinates (kinda the opposite of BiTwarp). I guess you could try to see if there's any place in the game you can save to spawn inside Owlan's room?

There is one problem with that. Owlan's room is not loaded if you don't open the door. You can try this out with walk through walls cheat. Idk if bitwarp loads this room then somehow.

I was thinking it might, similar to how it loads whatever dungeon room you spawn in.

I think someone has testing this some time back; xRedShifterx was it? I don't think he tested ever statue, since there's like 100. Also you might need to do this from the entering the academy, not the owlan's room. I could be wrong but I think someone told me that if you use cheat to go through the wall then owlan is still there. Which means that all the "rooms" in the academy are one big room in terms of loading and that the doors do nothing. I could be wrong though (it's been a while since anyone has attempted this) it should probably be confirmed.

It's a long shot, but I wouldn't mind trying out all the statutes whenever I have time. I just need someone to explain what I need to do exactly.

Just save somewhere, then do BiT, go to the door to Knight Academy, load your file, and open the KA door as the screen is fading out. You might need to open the door a little earlier than that, it'll prolly work if you open the door and load the file with the same A press.

It doesn't seem like it's going to work. I noticed that the bazaar statue would spawn me somewhat close to the study room at the south end of the academy. So I tried all of the ones close to it using Kazooies maps. One statue in fire sanctuary spawned me halfway up the stairs, but that's the closest I ever got to even getting on the second floor. Makes me wonder if the second floor is even loaded. But anyway, the only maps I was able to use were the ones here on the site, so there may have been something I missed.

This is true. I tested all the statues. As far as I know, no statues load you into any building. I haven't tested all, because it seems pointless. BitWarp, as you know, is xyz. None of the statues are close to 0x or 0y, or I would assume so. And I'm pretty sure the buildings are centered on a map. When I did BiTWarp with beds and doors and check the map, Link was not even on the map.

The second statue in Fire Sanctuary appears to be the closest we'll get. But the interesting thing about it is it seems to be able to spawn me with the second floor loaded, but it may just be because I'm close to the stairs. I did my best to try and spawn right between the walls, but I either get pushed into the stairs or out of bounds.

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32rv9SLTP1qcdlyro1_400.jpg)

But hey, this is something I guess. ;D

(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32rurK6DX1qcdlyro1_400.jpg)

When I was doing a Harp run earlier, I save and quit on the prompt after getting the Ruby Tablet and when I did a BiTWarp to Upper Academy I also activated Thunderhead. I wasn't purposely trying to do it, but I load files really late on warping and when I was finished with Earth Temple I noticed Thunderhead was opened. Not exactly sure if opening Thunderhead at this point would help Any% though.

Thats known, its later than the current place for Early Thunderhead.

Three vids.

The first is well known small time saver leaving Skyloft. just made a vid for those who don't know about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOO8-S90pE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOO8-S90pE)

Already known, but if you save at a Deep Woods statue after visiting Skyview, then the thunder head cs will play if you select your file. Doesn't matter how late in the game.

Saving in most places after visiting skyview, if you examining a statue will cause thunderhead. For some reason it does work if you saved in Skyview, but it seems to work almost everywhere else. So using the save prompt after Skyview, you can activate thunderhead and save warp back to skyloft simultaneously. Faster than the current method by like 15 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYuc3C5_gtw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYuc3C5_gtw)

The last one is the crazy one. If you've pushed down the log near the waterfall in Faron Woods and you saved at a Deep Woods statue, both the gates will be open. Magic. Afaik, this seems to be the only things I could get to work in Faron. So just make this file with these conditions, and copy it over to File 3 and you'll be golden for the rest of the game. Note: If you make this file after you enter Skyview, it'll trigger the thunderhead CS automatically, which results in s soft-lock. So you have to make it before you enter the dungeon.

In order for this trick to be useful, you need to copy the file once you've met the criteria so that it's always available. After getting the slingshot, push the log, save in Deep Woods, and copy the file to File 3. A nice bonus of file 3 is that the game automatically loads it in BiT, so the gates are open by default. Takes like 50 seconds to make this file, but definitely worth the time saved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5adaPmxHpZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5adaPmxHpZ8)

A couple notes on that third vid of TestRunner's:

- You can enter Skyview 0 and leave, save at the statue, and the file won't trigger the thunderhead cutscene in BiT.  So I think it's actually opening the Skyview Temple door that causes that to happen.

- What I do for any% runs is push that log down, and instead of visiting the Faron Entry statue, I visit the In the Woods statue to setup the fence version of Early Lake Floria (because I'm rubbish at the rope version).  So part of the 50 second cost of making the magic gate-opening file can also be used to make for a quicker setup for that trick, if you choose to use it.  In fact, that's how I noticed the upper academy gate was open in BiT; I did that setup, then saved outside Skyview Temple and copied to slot 3 so I could test some Early Thunderhead stuff.  Then next time I was in BiT, boom, the gate was open.  TestRunner was the one who figured out that it was pushing the log that made the UA gate open.  Which still makes no sense to me, but whatever.

yea, forgot to mention that skyview 0 does not trigger thunderhead. Not sure if it's the fact that the Door is open, the entering Skyview CS, the Fi text when you enter, or some variable that checks if you've entered Skyview 1 yet. This ofc has no effect on the open gates in bit.

Normally, the fence hop is about 10 seconds slower than the rope method (according to parax). With this new glitch, the fence hop is obviously faster, which obsoletes the annoying rope method. Your welcome =P (and yea, props to indy for showing me the glitch initially, and triforcebrawl for finding that first vid. )

Considering the fact that skyview temple has a zero version of the map... Is it possible that the forest where the kikwis if i spelled that right also has a zero map? Considering how many versions of that map there are. you see I'm interested in exploiting this glitch for speed runs and beta stuff as well so just curious.  

LOL BETA-QUEST!

Theoretically, yes. Most areas have multiple versions as you progress through the quest. Although I don't know you you'd get into other areas "early". And the conditions for "version_1" may be nothing in most areas, meaning that that there is no "version_0".

I'm pretty sure the trigger that loads Forest one is placing the tablet opening the hole in the clouds if we can glitch our way through the clouds before the tablet gets placed we'll get to forest 0 right?

Maybe, not necessarily. The condition may be nothing. Also you there is no way to "glitch through the clouds", as the loading zone does not exist.

Yeah, pretty much what TestRunner said. In BiT Skyloft if you fly around, you can actually see the holes and go through the clouds. The triggers do not exist until the tablet is placed. Even if you could go early, it wouldn't be Faron 0. Placing the tablet is like opening a door. It doesn't change where the light takes you.

i know i was thinking of bit loading and ww if you could just bitload a corrupted save before skyview then ww there after a few attempts of corrupting then saving just the right data you might get there

Doubt it. The possibility that you could get there using that is ridiculous. The possibility that it exists is even lower. Although there are multiple verisons of Sacred Grounds, I still doubt that a "0" exists.

Gotta bring the SS Forum back alive.

Airikita uploaded this, but hasn't posted about this. So I feel like posting about it. This is pretty interesting. The application of this isn't very useful, but it may be interesting in other places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aysmloHUTfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aysmloHUTfM)

Ask her about it, I don't know the exact details. Something about loading a file onto another file, but apparently different than BiTLoading. She managed to get to Sealed Grounds with Practice Sword. She had a phone call at the end and had to stop recording.

Yea this is basically Early Light Pillars. There are a couple other ways to do this, but it's cool to see it done without bombs. I messed with this before for funzies. You get dead ended when you need to charge a skyward strike in the sealed grounds. I was hoping to at least skip Fi, but nope, she's still there. What a troll she is.

Once again, this is bitLoading. Not sure what Airikita thinks bitLoading is, but now I wonder what it means too... Also she really needs to test on hero mode, I don't know how she puts up with all that text.

I researched BiT for SS, and I've been on my own kind of "hunt" for different results with the same method/concept the BiT uses.
 
I came up with reverse-BiT by doing certain cutscenes in Skyloft during BiT and loading a game at the same time.
 
However, at first I came up with the death warp in the BiT cave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLddWeJXaQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLddWeJXaQ)
 
This wasn't accidental, I figured since Link appears in the BiT as a result of him respawning, so why not make him respawn in a file that I can open?
 
I expanded more, finding that doing this same concept when cutscenes started, I could trigger the Sky Keep early:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvSRXgWsK0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AvSRXgWsK0)
 
Which was really tricky since, if you time it wrong, you can either crash the game or just load the file with no results.
 
However, I also loaded a BiTLoaded map with glitchy sounds. At first I thought the timing was off, but I tested it again.
 
Apparently Sky Keep will only open if the file you OPEN starts with a cutscene.
 
Which is why a new game works, because it starts with Link's nightmare.
 
So I tested a new theory... skipping the Goddess Sword and opening the portal to Faron.
 
I tried at it a bunch of times, but I ended up back at Skyloft. However, a closer look... I did it at night (by sleeping in a bed during BiT) and my other file was in Daytime. So when I loaded the file, BiT was loading the map, however it was not loading the cutscene to opening the portal.
 
I saw bats flying in front of the Goddess Statue in daytime with the gate shut... BATS IN DAY TIME!!!
 
That clued me in that the scene was loading in Skyloft (to open the portal), but the file I loaded had to be SAVED before a CUTSCENE.
 
So what did I do? Saved AFTER flying with Zelda before the cutscene with Groose at the Wing Ceremony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aysmloHUTfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aysmloHUTfM)
 
I tested out other cutscenes during getting the Goddess Sword. If I started a file while starting the cutscene where Fi handed me the Tablet, I get the Ancient Tablet, but the Goddess Sword would be gone FOREVER!
 
I also had some random OoB moments where I would fall infinitely in the position that I saved in Skyloft.
 
Why would I skip the Goddess Sword? For fun. But I was stopped at the Evil Aura and couldn't do a thing with the toy sword.
 
(Recently TestRunner has told me that these findings are old, but I've been doing my own glitch hunt without knowing anything about it. I find it helps me find more breakthroughs)

This has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I'll repost for Airikita's sake. So, if you try to load a CS onto a file from BiT then you'll be warped to the Follow Fi sequence Skyloft but it's day time. Kind of weird, not much sense to it. But if your file is saved at a Cutscene, then the file will be loaded proper.

You can place any of the three tablets, thus causing the Light Pillars to open early by loading them from BiT. Although trying to place a real tablets on your file out of order will result in a crash (usually). You can also open skykeep just as you showed. Unfortunately, these BitLoading glitches are generally not allowed in a standard SpeedRun since you need to use pre-prepared files. Everything you use must be done/made during the run. You could of course have a special category that allows this though.

Luckily there is a way to cause the Opening the Thunderhead CS to start without any premade files (saves about 30 min), so it's allowed in speedruns. It would be great if we could find a way to open skykeep early without premade files (as it would save about an hour) but I don't think it's likely since the thunderhead CS is triggered very differently. But it's BiT, who knows what magic is lying in wait.

There is something else I've been looking at... If you have a file saved in a location (in my case, I used my completed game saved in Hylia's Realm), and save in BiT map, you will start at the BiT map if you load that file.

However, if you die (kill yourself) in Skyloft on that file, you WON'T respawn in Skyloft, instead you will respawn back at the save point BEFORE saving in BiT.

Technically the save in BiT doesn't seem to count as a true save.

So, in my completed file, when I died in BiT Skyloft playing my completed file, I ended up back in Hylia's Realm.

I tried dying by loading my completed file in BiT before dying, but it will only crash. So it doesn't seem to work during BiT itself.

Perhaps if you save in Skyloft during day it may not crash? Or perhaps it is the loading from dying in Skyloft BiT that causes this to crash?

I wonder what would happen if you saved before a cs, saved in Skyloft BiT, and died in that file...

So when you perform either a BitSave or a BitWarp, the game does not update your "death respawn location", aka "checkpoint". Your checkpoint is updated everytime you enter an area loading zone, save normally, and a few other special places. So if you die, you respawn at your last checkpoint. But BitSave and BitWarp do not update that. So if you die after performing one, you'll appear at your last checkpoint (which is the last time you saved before BiT). However, if you enter a building then the checkpoint is updated, so if try to kill yourself then you'll respawn in the building. It's good to know, since it's a good way to "undo" a BitSave or BitWarp.

So, the BiTSkyloft is a little funky. It's the area that plays during the title screen. As such, there is no map. Tring to load the area proper will result in a crash (by either entering/exiting a building or by dying and respawning). The night version of skyloft is however the normal skyloft map, so it can be loaded properly. All the buildings and caves and goddess statues don't crash either, as they are normal maps.

You should probably check out the ZSR page if you haven't before. It doesn't go into some details of a lot of things, but you may find if helpful: http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/SS (http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/SS). You could also read through this entire thread, since a lot of stuff is documented over time here.

Uh... can someone explain this BiT mishap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1GXF0FNPk

It's worth mentioning that the "it works after the save prompt because a cutscene is scripted to trigger when you load the file" theory is BS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPbq-MK3Weg

That same thing can be done on every single save prompt. The game is not scripted to trigger cutscenes when you load the file, it spawns you inside cutscene triggers.


Not sure what you meant here but there is a map (Skyloft), just with a weird state for the title screen applied to it. If you went to a different area and then went back, it would try to load day Skyloft; that's what makes it crash, for some reason.

New breakthrough/theory: is Skyloft BiT the REAL Skyloft, or the psuedo-Skyloft you see in the skies when flying your Loftwing???

Video: http://youtu.be/B9t8YjJkNRQ

With my new discovery - loading a map in BiT psuedo-Skyloft, it's clear that this isn't really Skyloft you're on, but the Sky itself!

Surely you can't go to the Lumpy Pumpkin or the color island, but technically I should be able to fly my Loftwing below the clouds! However, loading a map from my complete file has actually loaded the sky when it should have loaded Skyloft-only!

Technically, think of it - no people, and the mirror is down. Possibly the ONLY reason you see the full Skyloft at night is because, when you leave a house, you're ACTUALLY ENTERING SKYLOFT!


The only reason Lumpy Pumpkin is notloaded is that it "thinks" you're actually in Skyloft, so it loads the statues, but the people actors are still missing, including the knights. Also, note that the birds flying above Skyloft only appear when you're in the sky.

So, you're not really in Skyloft.

Also, when you save at a save point, and start a file and it's all bright, remember this: the intro that you play on a new file? The cutscene where Zelda hands the letter to her bird looks EXACTLY like the Skyloft you see when you save at a save point in BiT and start your file!

just watched video down button on the d pad is locked by the file load screen to be center the cursor that's why you cant press dpad down have you tried with the forest column of light? that's earlier and might work better

BiT Skyloft is the Skyloft from the title screen. It's not the on from the sky. There are videos of people gltiching and landing on the skyloft in the sky. It's a separate map, that's why the other islands don't really exist.

Yes, Faron was tried, but it didn't work. I have another theory to test, and it requires another file. It should still work, but I won't be able to die with bombs.

My concern is, without a blank file, it might not save the position in BiT, so if I die it could crash.

Hopefully I could still test my theory either tonight or tomorrow.


Yea, it's true there's differences, but I'm referring to the lighting in BiT. The statue is outlined in a blue light (like an aura), similar to the lighting you see on the island when flying in the game. But whatever, it was a theory I didn't give much thought. But I'm guessing that Skyloft island is the same thing when you fly in the sky, and the Lumpy Pumpkin (and other islands) get loaded when the screen changes. The transition is to load those islands.

Which is why I believe those portals should be active when the map is fully loaded.

An effect I had occur when I loaded the map from my completed file, and saved over my incomplete file, was when I started my incomplete file, the tower with the mirror raised the pedistal on start-up. However, when I entered a building and went back to Skyloft, the pedistal was down. So it was as if the pedistal raised up temporarily, like the map psuedo-loaded in my incomplete file too.

I was under the impression that the Skyloft we see in the sky is a miniature version.

Update: apparently the Faron portal will load in psuedo-Skyloft, however entering it in BiT sends you to the sky... it's weird, like the activation is there for Faron Woods, except that it triggers the entrance to the sky.

Also, it's true Skyloft in the sky is smaller, however it could just have been scaled. The maps are identical (as you can see in my video).

Curious to see if you can enter Thunderhead, with it activated beforehand, in the pseudo-Skyloft state; that won't require the down button.

Actually, I managed to activate the Thunderhead AND have the down button working to drop off the bird, but apparently.... it doesn't work.  :(

I guess perhaps the portals are loaded when you transition to The Sky.

ALSO, I had a file saved before the Wing Ceremony race and saved over it in BiT Psuedo Loaded Map, and managed to activate a portal in that file when I played it. HOWEVER, activating the portal only warped me to the sky, not to where the portal should have sent me.

So sad to say it was a bit of a piss-off... I guess the portals are loaded when you transition to the sky.

I have a video of it, but I won't be posting it tonight.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I have an extra note... the only transition that doesn't crash when flying to the sky is the flight with Zelda. My theory about the maps being identical have to be pretty close, because if it crashes to exit a house during day, then of course it would crash when you fly into the sky during day!

What if... you are able to fly into the sky if it were night? Too bad that's impossible by the game standards.

EDIT: here's a video: http://youtu.be/37QfY7MccGg
What's weird is saving after psuedo-loading a map in BiT over an incomplete file, and if you fly into a cloud where the portal is "supposed" to be, you'll warp to the sky, even if you're nowhere near the trigger for the sky.

Does anyone have a save thats been corrupted by a BiT Glitch? I'd like to see what the binary data looks like.

I forget what we think crashes BiT at day, but I think it had to do with having people loaded. Not sure. Another interesting transition that crashes is the area where you start the race. The race loads for a couple frames, then crashes. I think it has to do with the HUD for the race, or text loading. Maybe try loading a file, etc, when entering the race.

Unfortunately there's not enough time to load another file during the race... and even if you load a file with say... the ride with Zelda, I'm not sure if that would give results. I could attempt something of the sort though.

I also came across an interesting test. I did the BiT Psuedo Loaded Map glitch today, but instead of just simply "continuing" after dying in BiT Skyloft, I started up a file, and it crashed.

I think it might have tried to load the saved map in my file, but I'm not sure. It should've respawned me in skyloft if it didn't work, but it crashed instead.

Also, if it's people, how come the market loads just fine?

Could it be the size of the map (number of polygons) AND actors?

2 new updates:

Recently found how to do a trick TestRunner has been trying to do, the "duped new game" glitch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MyZk7YGPBQ&feature=plcp

Allows you to play a game, and if you save, it will still start as a new game at the intro cs.

Doing my own little test, I found a way to do a "Back in Time Equipped (or New Game Plus)" glitch by reversing the "duped new game" bug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFCKJhU3QE&feature=plcp

The interesting effect is that, even though it copies the equipment and file info from file 3, even if you have full hearts, it resets your hearts to 6 hearts. (The extra 2 are from the medallions)

I have not explored this "Back in Time Equipped" file yet, but I will update if I find out anything else interesting after doing this glitch.

If very curious of the results of if you did it during the bokoblin capture sequence. And then what would happen if you got the "real" item.

This isn't anything new.  It is documented here:
http://zeldaspeedruns.com/ss/misc/opening-empty-files
I should also have a video of it somewhere on my YT channel.

I did some testing with this way back in april, maybe earlier, can't remember for sure. We joked about having a NG+ category with this trick but obviously that won't happen, just like you stated in the 2nd video. You basically just load a completed file camouflaged as a new file. :P

Edit: Here's my YT video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbzlf2sMU_c&list=UU3tiqNxITl1l-Nu_FALZX5w&index=3&feature=plcp
Appears that it was back in january, not april. :p

The skyward sword documentation is really confusing. Some things are put in places where people won't look.
I mean, this trick allows you to save while keeping a file as "Hero Mode", creating the illusion of NG+, but it is placed under "Miscellanious > Opening Empty Files". No one would look there for a glitch like this.

I do not play Skyward Sword any longer though. So maybe I'm just missing something. Don't really know what's going on atm.

CloudMax: I've seen your video, but that's why I gave that information in the video. The BiT way is TestRunner's glitch and I was helping him out trying to do it in BiT.

In fact, I watched your video before I posted the videos. TestRunner was just having trouble remembering how to do it in BiT.

However, even though you can keep the new Hero Mode file with a completed game, this trick you can only do once:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFCKJhU3QE

I did the opposite of the "Duped New Game" glitch, I died in a new Hero Mode file, and had a completed game in file slot 3. That way, the game from file 3 gets copied to the new Hero Mode in file 2, and you can start the new Hero Mode in the opening cutscene.

This trick resets your hearts to 6 hearts, and since file 3 has every single heart, you can't get them back.

Makes it look like I created a NG+ from nothing.

Also, if file 3 is a non-Hero Mode file, starting a new game in Hero Mode and saving will make the file a non-Hero Mode file, according to file 3 (obviously).

Ahh, I didn't finish watching the video. Sorry about that. So instead of doing the basic "save a Hero Mode file as Hero Mode" you just load that file while loading the data from file 3.
I think I've heard something similar before. About it being possible to load one file while the game thinks you're playing on another file that is. I am positive about that.
I think I did that earlier, but not with the same method as you. I'm not sure though.


Edit:
Ah, think I found it. It is not the same thing, but the result is pretty much the same?
Page 9 in this thread. First post. (http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=969.320)


As you can see, I do it in a totally different way. But the result is pretty much the same, isn't it?
I'm not sure if my method allows for the intro cutscene to play. If it doesn't then that's the difference right there. :p
I load a new Hero Mode file, but the game thinks that I have selected another file, which results in the game loading the data from that file instead.

I never got these things recorded because I quit playing the game before doing so.

We can talk more about these things in the IRC. I may be able to help out in some way. Even though I haven't played the game for months, I'd still say that I know more about some things related to BiT than most people. I've forgot a lot of things though. :p

(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4282/necropost.jpg) lol humor aside o think I've found something interesting about bit. You know when you first load a game after a bit and you get that weird false map that you leave and come back if you want to load the game? well its about that map after doing the tower of light early like from the beginning of the game early I've realized something your actually on skyloft and the forest silent realm at the same time how did i discover this? by leaving and returning to that map multiple times one thing I've realized is every thing is washed out in blue when your on that false sky loft compared to the normal one. second clue is when you jump off of the map with out calling your bird and the sky guard guy saves you you still only see glitch as he doesn't exist on that map those two things hint to me at least that your actually in the silent realm of the forest. what do you guys think?       

Edit: not sure if Airikita has discovered this but i just found out when you do a bit you actually jump into three maps at once in several layers as i watched Arikita fly in bit and the color differences of the alternate skyloft i realized your in the sky silent realm skyloft all at the same time the lowest layer the one we see and interact with being skyloft.   

That is a fair point, but it could also just be a quick outline of Skyloft during development that they may have left in (the Knight wouldn't have been programmed into it). I dunno, I think my idea is less probable than yours lol

Ok, here's how BiT skyloft works. (feel free to correct me testrunner)

When you continue and reset to initiate BiT you actually spawn on the title screen's map. If you look at the title screen normally, you'll see that there's actually an entire skyloft map on it. If you look hard, you'll see that the title screen is very bright, the same reason BiT skyloft is very bright. You actually spawn on that title screen map. That means that obviously, things like the knight don't have to be in the map, however, for some reason I don't know, triggers still work perfectly fine for the most part. You are not in faron trial, or anywhere else, you are actually on the title screen's version of skyloft.

^ your on two maps TLoZSR my theory was that your on three all at the same time which would explain atleast tom me any way why we cant go inside and back out a building 

You are in the title screen.
I promise you that you are not on 2 or 3 maps.
BiT has nothing to do with the Faron Trial, that is complete and absolute bullshit.
BiT in every other game just puts you on the title screen, or in The Wind Waker's case, on the map you were returning to.
The colors of the actual title screen is the same as the BiT map.
The Knight doesn't spawn for the cutscene because his actor is not on that map. Because of this, the camera is not able to follow him and it is glitched.

I can tell you this: loading 3 maps on top of each other would look horrible and most likely crash because of lack of RAM.

The Faron silent realm is a map. Each map has it's own lighting. There is no reason, and most likely no possibility, that a map could load from another map's data. If you were in the Faron silent realm, you would be in Faron, in the silent realm. Not on Skyloft.

You can load elements from another map with TP BiTE though IIRC.

So you can be on one map with what elements from another map?

The only thing that really stands out is that you pull the area music from the other save. I also want to say that the lighting is different as well

You're wrong about why you can't go inside and back out a building, and I'll tell you why. It's pretty simple really, when you cause a BiT certain flags aren't set because when F000_stg_l0.arc.LZ is loaded up, it's using one of two available zev.dat files for skyloft, one being for the normal skyloft and one for the title screen. So when you try enter a house you're not setting those flags (or setting them to incorrect values) which causes the game to invoke a kind of "Failsafe" mode, which is better than the DSI you get when trying to load an invalid file.

EDIT:
iirc the alternate zev.dat file isn't stored with skyloft, it may be imbedded within the main.dol (haven't checked)

Can someone figure out where BiT reads from memory? This has been kinda annoying for a while. Tricks like "opening the gates in BiT" and "Early Thunderhead" and all the various random cutscenes that play... it's all very mysterious. Like I understand the general idea behind it, I was just hoping someone could find the specifics. I'm fairly sure there's got to be some stuff we are missing if we just had some detailed testing in a memory viewer.

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it seems to me that BiT is simply a failsafe, a kind of error handler. The affects of the BiT, while unintended, were considered better than the alternative. Overall it's just bad programming on Nintendo's part. As for the exact details of HOW it works, again I'm not certain.

FYI: some BiT stuff, choco and I are trying to find some more stuff with BiT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR5_Z5KrSbs

Reposted here in case youtube eats it:

The area you're working in is known as "Level scratchpad", basically it's where volatile metadata gets stored, if you wish to know more about the format please refer to my documentation project:
https://code.google.com/p/skyward-sword-save-editor/source/browse/trunk/save%20editor/Skyward%20Sword%20Save%20Format.txt

I've also written a save editor for it available on my github: https://github.com/Antidote

BiT stuff from Bob_LobLaw

http://pastebin.com/zJBAmBri

He's correct on every point except one, he used binary blob correctly XD

Some things that bug me about the pastebin.

Object State is a terrible name since object is such a broad term, and the flags don't capture the state of a singular entity. They seem to be equivalent to Ocarina of Time's scene flags, but maybe i'm mistaken?

I don't like the term blob because blobs have an indefinite shape, whereas if i'm reading it right each "blob" is a static 16 bytes. I'd call it a block.

"It's important to note that the arrangement and schema of one blob, have nothing to do with any other. What would be a perfectly reasonable blob in Faron might be complete nonsense if inserted into the spot of the Skyloft blob, for example."

That to me seems unnecessarily confusing. Should be something like "The data in one block will be interpreted differently if loaded in a different area".

"Note: if you monkey with the state index byte, you still won't be able to get your file to load your area into a bizarre state. I'm guessing that the game performs some sort of sanity check to make sure that this index belongs with the map you're saved in. This begs the question of why it stores this byte at all since it calculates it on load"

Not sure what that means exactly.

I fucking love how BiT has turned into a trick that involves manipulating bits.

You can jump off the top of the Light Tower to take damage, but it's a pain in the ass to climb up, jump off, climb up, jump off, etc.

I'm aware that it's known (posted in the BiTloading pastebin), but adding a bit of detail:

Working on making my own Hero Mode file for both Any% and 100%, with exactly what's necessary and nothing more, so I'm currently on Adventure Mode (Normal Mode), doing the BiTWarp to skip Scrapper Escort (saved just outside Fire Sanctuary, at Inside the Volcano if I remember the statue name correctly), and I had Light Tower CS play during BiT after accidently selecting the file and backing out of the save statue to reposition myself. This is known to be possible, nothing new here. No clue yet if it will screw me or not, haven't continued the game since. Don't think it will as I didn't try and load any files while the CS was playing.
EDIT: I'd attempted the BiTWarp before, hugging the statue on the right side, and found myself a bit far away from the vines and had to reset to redo the warp after getting stuck when I fell, jumpslashed in midair, landed, and hit the Fi trigger below. The CS occurred during the second attempt at the BiTWarp.


After the cutscene played, I still retained control of Link and was able to move him around and position myself correctly for the BiTWarp. From what I've read here, viewing a CS during BiT is supposed to remove control of Link from you, and you don't retain control when it ends. Can try and upload the file set as it is now, perhaps it can be combed over to view the differences.
Of note is I am playing on a Wii U in WiiMode (using the Home Menu for resets); not sure if this is relevant or not. While I was attempting to position myself for the BiTWarp, I was continuously Z-targeting the statue; perhaps this let me retain control?

EDIT: Save attached (125kb): Save file 1 is the file I'm setting up, File 2 is corrupt file, File 3 is for BiTMagic. File 1 is currently saved in BiT Skyloft at UA statue with respawn location at Eldin Volcano statue.



Couple observations, most probably already known, unrelated to above.
Viewing the Lanayru Gorge entrance CS early, via BiTWarping OOB and accessing Lanayru Caves early, places the world map in a semi-glitched state; the game assumes that Lanayru Gorge is the last location you visit and thus fills everything else in, even if you haven't been there yet (Sorted by region. Lanayru: Sand Sea, Desert, Temple of Time. Eldin: Volcano. Faron: Lake Floria). Also, whenever you view another area's entrance CS, the Lanayru Gorge region is always filled in, but the map properly zooms in on the correct area. So far I haven't encountered an issue, nor do I believe I will as I'd viewed the Eldin Volcano entrance CS (the last area before Lanayru Gorge) and no issues occurred.

If you fail to BiT off the corrupt file (select Continue, but not reset), you crash with a black screen. Likely because no respawn location is set, if I had to guess, though there's probably more reasons (trying to heal 0 health, for example)

Deathwarping is so hard when stuff does half of Hero Mode damage to twelve hearts. Anyone deciding to make their own hero mode 100% files, get ready to love your Corrupt File!