BiT Research Topic

[CloudMax]

That's confusing. When you say possible, your not talking about legit speedrunning.

I said that it is possible to load it in hero mode. Something being possible has nothing to do with it being allowed in speedruns. =/
And I do mention that it isn't allowed in speedruns with all caps in the video description on the first row.
And the fact that the glitch is all about loading a file that have already unlocked the tower. that should speak for itself.

[TheOthin]

I keep seeing this and thinking of other glitches, like in DK64 where you can load the weapons from multiplayer into the main story, which is counted as NG+. Is there anything that would make this not get the same treatment?

[Manocheese]

The Funky Weapons glitch in DK64 counts as new game + because it involves the cutscene theater and minigame arena, which must be unlocked before they can be accessed. If there were a way to do the glitch without those, it would not be classified as new game +. Basically, NG+ involves using an unlockable mode or feature that may or may not involve transferring stats or items from previous playthroughs. You still have to beat the game from start to finish, so transferring game progress through a glitch is not allowed.

[Kazooie]

So do this means we can have NG+ category for SS. Or does SDA or some other things accept that kind of category at all? Or can we use that category in race example?

[Manocheese]

New game + in Skyward Sword would be Hero Mode. Things like the glitch to raise the Light Tower wouldn't be allowed.

[CloudMax]

New game + in Skyward Sword would be Hero Mode. Things like the glitch to raise the Light Tower wouldn't be allowed.

What is it that makes it so that light tower early isn't NG+ when the stuff in DK64 is? I really do not see the difference to be honest.
Why is for example newgame+ in OoT3D allowed when early light tower isn't? I do not understand that either. =/

[TheOthin]

Okay, I see. So Funky's weapons just involves something that was unlocked by a separate file rather than actually taking data from that file; the thing it takes data from isn't an actual file. Meanwhile Light Tower actually does require taking data from an existing file.

CloudMax, does this explain  the difference?

[Abahbob]

Well, if you do the blank file dupe method, but instead of copying, you play, then you can get progress and save and it still says it's a blank file. Wouldn't that be similar to oot3d? It still shows the opening scene and stuff, but it is pretty similar to OoT3D.

[TestRunner]

The game data on the system as a whole is what makes it NG+, not just the individual file. NG+ comes originally from Chrono Trigger where you got ALL data from a previous file. I agree with Cloudmax. There's no reason to not allow light tower early and skykeep early in NG+.

On a side note, I would not consider Hero mode as NG+ since the gameplay is basically the same as normal except that you can skip cutscenes.

Duped files are boring. You can have a file that starts right before Demise. I wouldn't really count that as a real run.

[Abahbob]

Well, I was making a point. I would consider Hero mode NG+ because of the items carrying over, not the cutscenes.

Duped files would be so boring, it wouldn't really be much of a run.

[CloudMax]

If we were allowed to get early light tower and early sky keep we would be able to skip the light tower quest, fire sanctuary and hero song quest, right?
We would play up until the bow and then go to sky keep right away.

I have a few other ideas in mind that I haven't tried yet.

[Kazooie]

What you mean by skykeep early? Is there really way to get there early or are you just demostrating some routes? Sorry to ask such a dump question. And it seems there was litte arguement about tower of light early trick to being allowed in NG+. So it is allowed then? I don't really know what to say about this :/

[Abahbob]

I believe he was talking about having a duped blank file up to skykeep. Bleh we need a name for this and a page about it, even though it really isn't too useful.

For counting any of this as NG+, I say there is almost no way it would ever be counted, unless it could be done without a file up to that point, such as making a file, getting to let's say Faron, then using it to do early light tower. All this is theoretical of course.

[Norkix]

While I was looking for rupee farming tricks during my first playthrough WAAAAAAY back in november, I noticed that if you kill all the enemies within the owl statue's loading barrier, they do not respawn when you reload. Could it be that this game treats statue saving like a savestate, as MM did? Sorry if this has already bren brought up (too lazy to read from beginning) or is already known, but I think actually understanding how saving works in this game may somehow help us with unlocking the secrets of BiT.

[Abahbob]

Well, I doubt it works like a savestate. That would probably stop BiT from working actually. It most likely stores separate variables and loads them, hence why you can save and load right and teleport to a different map with same coordinates. Have you checked where certain enemies appear after saving and such? BiT really doesn't have many saving mysteries. It's mainly the title screen mode that has so many questions and quirks to it. BiT itself has no secret of how it works about activating. The game loads you when you hit continue, then loads the title when you hit reset. That's the simple explanation, there are more technical reasons aswell.