OoT3D: 100% Segmented Discussion [NG+ Saw]

[TheWayfaringFox]

It depends on how fast you grab Poe #9. I think it is possible to get the skulltulas if the movements are fast enough.
I've tried to clip through red ice before and I couldn't for some reason. I think I will have to come back to it, because I am completely uncertain and I don't trust myself with this...

For a segmented run it seems like it is possible as long as you know how to fish really well. But it looks like there would only be one chance for it there, but it would save a lot of time.

The fastest way to walk to Biggoron is by reaching the bridge area in LW from LH and then performing an HJ off the bridge, and then to GC and then to DMC.

[r0bd0g]

Delivering the Eye Drops you need to get the scrub grotto HP and big poes 7, 6, and 8. Doable?

[TheWayfaringFox]

Yes. That's fine.

[r0bd0g]

I'll throw in the HP on the lab too. There's a problem though is that I still have Big Poe 9. I'll have to think about this more. I think I could use FW to save some time in ZF and I could drop the poe off then, but then that's like, a couple extra trips to the poe collector, so I'm not sure how it's gonna work out.

[TheWayfaringFox]

So I got through the rest of the route yesterday.
-The Spirit Temple Actor glitch does not work and now I understand why. I noticed that on the doors in the temple, time stops completely. So should we clip into the puzzle area and push the statues? They and the mirrors are always loaded and we can easily clip back in with a hookshot clip. I may need to time this, actually.
-I literally think that Child 2 is well thought out. The mask quest is fast and the sidequests are well placed.
-The HP in the graveyard in the crate can be obtained with the boomerang. However, there are other methods and idk whether or not the boomerang method is the fastest. I would like to see a setup for it.
-There are two new tricks in the Fire Temple:
 -With a TSC clip within the first Fire Circle area you can get behind the gate and to the switch, which saves a key.
 -There is a Grunz Clip that allows us to hover to the blocked door in the main entrance, which makes us able to BK skip right after obtaining the Hammer.
-It doesn't look like we can reach double defense early.

[r0bd0g]

If I'm understanding this right... there IS a clip to get past the hammer blocks in the first room and there IS a replacement for the block clip? Those are really nice to have, lol. I forget if this makes the fire cs skip better or worse, lol. I think it makes it a bit worse. I think at this point it'd be hard to think of a way to make it good in 100%. Uh, is there no video of this TSC? It does skip the HSJ off the map chest right?

Too bad about the actor glitch. Did you look into getting that key after the lower child side GS by grabbing the ledge below the part of the gate that falls down? I've never tried this so IDK if there's a trick to it.

The fastest way to get that HP on normal OoT is to use the longshot to get up there but we never go there after getting the longshot, so getting it with the boomerang is best (though RG has been getting his nuts back at dampe's grave and getting it then). You could watch current 100% runs to see what their set-up is, though probably not a recent RG run. That said I mean probably you could do a 3DS-only thing like HSJ up there? Thing is that might be slower? A bonus of the boomerang trick is you can multitask it with the soil GS.

As far as rerouting the poes, uh, there are some decisions I need to make still that I haven't bothered to try and see which is best. Need to see whether or not to get Big Poe 9. Need to see whether or not to plant the bean... again... The reason is that before I was keeping one of the big poes through child 2 so I didn't have to make an extra trip to the collector. Now if I don't get all the big poes back-to-back I can't FW back every time, and on one of those trips, I want to get nocturne, which means I need fire temple cleared already. Probably I'm just going to give up on trying to choose between bean/no bean and just leave it the way it is. How did your bombs hold out? If the 40 bag was crucial then that kinda makes the decision easier.

[r0bd0g]

http://pastebin.com/BFeLadLj

Fix for the Claim Check issue. If there are no -more- major issues, then I'm done updating this. I also incorporated the tricks I was told about. I noticed that you have to cross the graveyard an extra time if you don't split shadow, so I made the decision to to split it. I had to compensate by finding a couple more rupees, but it didn't really waste much time to get them. I tried to fix some time of day stuff in child 2 so I could get the stuff in night child graveyard on the first trip through it. I couldn't do it before b/c Dampe wasn't there. I moved some more stuff around and you need a lot more magic drops than you used to, but it doesn't really seem like a problem. Still no idea if planting the bean is a good idea or not.

Now it'll be up to somebody who owns the game to keep going on this. Optimize the time of day a little better, add more 3DS-only stuff that I don't know about, route out your explosives and bomb drops, stuff like that. Good luck.

Maybe if I get bored I'll make an RTA route out of it but don't hold your breath. :p

[benstephens1000]

Once again, thanks for your continued support R0bd0g. Now that I finally got the Any% NG+ WR, I'm gonna start reviewing this route and will probably make an RTA route out of it. After reading over some of it, it seems that not too much will have to be change if people are willing to practice some of the more difficult tricks like.

[r0bd0g]

I'm stupid, lol, bad copy-pasting strikes again. I'm selling the fish before I can use it for the poe cs skip. I could get the 50 rupees in DMT instead, though I would need to find some more rupees besides, but... I think it'd be better with seg 22 being shorter since it's long enough without it. I will add a FW after first coming to LW and then do Forest. Not worth updating the route over, anyway. I found some magic just after the silver rock skip that should cover that extra cast nicely. I will check more if this is the best option here.

I also remembered you can't cast FW inside Link's House, so I will try and combine some segments together and move some stuff around to avoid this. Expect longer segments in Child 2. There is one segment that'll have to be longer than I would like. The fire arrow platform gs provides some flexibility.

I'm seriously considering doing fire and/or water without the biggoron sword. I want to see if the time saved on fights is less than the time it takes to play sun's enough times to get it. You have to go to biggoron again and the sun's will happen naturally in that time... EDIT: Yes, I'm moving BGS to adult 2 when you go down DMT with the hammer. You will lose a bit of time in Fire. I couldn't really find a better way to damage down for the prelude cs skip than to use that GS... so you will have to lose time in water for no reason. I will think about it some more.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Just wondering, but in this category might NG+ Boomerang save more time than than Saw? You can skip almost all of JJB with it, and there are a pile of GS's that it could help on. First seg could look something like Sword + WWT -> ZL -> Cucco bottle + Sun's Song -> GC -> Saria's Song -> Bracelet + DC + Shield -> ZR -> Silver Scale -> back down ZR -> LLR -> GV -> LH + Ruto Bottle -> Fishing HP + Savequit, and second seg could look something like GDT -> LW warp to ZR + Fish -> Move KZ -> JJB -> FW + Savequit.

Obviously get all the HP's and GS's as you pass them.

[r0bd0g]

You can't skip any more of JJB than you already do b/c you still need to actually get the boomerang.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Oh yeah. I suppose there are no JJB timesavers later on if you come back here as an adult to get it while getting serenade, Iron Boots, and those PoH's? All I can think of is that you wouldn't have to raise the water in B1fl because you could just climb the ledge, or maybe use hoverboots to get across.

[r0bd0g]

Not really worth a new post, but here are some minor fixes. Fixed the issue with the Fish, and the issue with trying to return FW from inside Link's house. The day graveyard and gerudo valley segments had to be combined -- hopefully that's not a problem. I also moved the BGS until later. I'm still internally debating about whether or not to do the water temple with the BGS. The next best option I could think of for the prelude CS skip is to do it after serenade cs skip. You have lose a 12-second timesaver and you have to RI the bombs instead of using the FW back to the ToT, though I'm not sure what the damage is there. Besides that, you would not have the longshot in Fire, and also Dark Link will have more health when you get to him, though you would still kill him faster that w/o the BGS. Last edit for real this time. http://pastebin.com/mAK4D1Pm

Yeah I can't see Jabu as adult doing anything. Only I could think you could get the GS's in the basement of the main room, but I feel like it's not worth it to enter/exit Jabu again just to have adult's movement while getting those. I think the trip to them is probably shorter after boomerang besides.

[Pedalpowertoast]

Posted route to ZSR. Some parts still need editing, so I need some help with that.

[r0bd0g]

Just something you need to know is the route has a lot of guesswork on my part. A lot of things should still be timed to see for sure if they're faster, and it'd be a lot of work to do it especially seeing as you can't test it on emulator. Things like, IDK, ZL CS skip, the Nocturne WW vs. Iron Boots... and a lot of little things besides.