OoT3D: 100% Segmented Discussion [NG+ Saw]

[Norkix]

I hear you there, r0bd0g. Routing is annoying sometimes.

In NG+ news, which I know nobody cares about but I'm still doing it anyways, I'm going to begin rerouting child 1 tonight. Thankfully, BA-ing the saw only takes a few minutes, so it won't be that annoying to start over. ^_^

[benstephens1000]

Thankfully, BA-ing the saw only takes a few minutes, so it won't be that annoying to start over. ^_^

Can't you not just save a file with BA saw to set up your NG+ file? That's what I do for FW

[Norkix]

I had that originally, but I accidentally saved after practicing FWWW... So I need to get Saw all over again.

[TheWayfaringFox]

Okay, there are three extra hookshot clips that I used in the Shadow Temple to reach things:
 
 -Hookshot clip in skulltula/guillotine path to skip dealing with the skulltulas and walking
 
 -I clipped to skip the second Silver Rupee puzzle

 -I was able to clip through the corner of the wall to obtain the GS in the falling spike room, but you have to push the block to stop the first falling spike set from hitting you, so idk if it saves time there.

Bongo wasn't that bad with just the hookshot. I actually think it would need testing to see how much time longshot, BGS and Ice Arrows would save. We could block skip with the longshot which would save some time. And there's the stuff that normal Oot does.

- I left the fire arrow platform GS until Child 2. I can't tell from what fox is saying if it's faster to swim all the way over there or not... If you can't do full superswims, I'm was guessing it wasn't. I'm not sure if he's realizing that if I get it in child 1, I have to swim all the way back from the platform as well.

From the data I collected, it is faster to wait until child 2 to grab it. You save 20 seconds with the Serenade method instead of during your first trip to Lake Hylia. I should have specified beforehand.

[Norkix]

Just a quick question: How do Ice Arrows save time in Shadow?

[r0bd0g]

"Just a quick question: How do Ice Arrows save time in Shadow?"
They should speed up the bongo fight by a few seconds.

"Hookshot clip in skulltula/guillotine path to skip dealing with the skulltulas and walking"
I've added that to my copy of the route. Good eye.

"I clipped to skip the second Silver Rupee puzzle"
How did you manage that? You mean the one with the beamos and the traps? I looked around there and couldn't find anything to hookshot to. What'd you hookshot?

"I was able to clip through the corner of the wall to obtain the GS in the falling spike room, but you have to push the block to stop the first falling spike set from hitting you, so idk if it saves time there."
Neat, but yeah I'm kinda doubting that one when you can basically just run in there and get the thing.

[Norkix]

Wha- How could Ice Arrows speed up Bongo? I know they freeze his hand, but I've never seen an instance where they're faster than regular arrows. But maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places.

r0bd0g, if you backwalk to Castle Town from Fairy Ocarina, you should make it there before nightfall. I don't know what this waiting for dawn business is.

[TheWayfaringFox]

Wha- How could Ice Arrows speed up Bongo? I know they freeze his hand, but I've never seen an instance where they're faster than regular arrows. But maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places.

He opens his eye, which shortens his first phase and makes it extremely easy.

"I clipped to skip the second Silver Rupee puzzle"
How did you manage that? You mean the one with the beamos and the traps? I looked around there and couldn't find anything to hookshot to. What'd you hookshot?

There are these wooden things alongside the walls that you can hookshot like all the wooden floors in the room before block skip, and I hookshot one to skip the walkway and another is close enough to get past the gate to the falling spike room.

[r0bd0g]

"I don't know what this waiting for dawn business is."
You need the egg to hatch to wake Talon.

"There are these wooden things alongside the walls that you can hookshot like all the wooden floors in the room before block skip, and I hookshot one to skip the walkway and another is close enough to get past the gate to the falling spike room."
Those aren't hookshotable in normal OoT. I specifically checked to see if you could skip this gate. I was like, why can you not hookshot this stuff but I could do it back in the Skulltula room.
I'll add that in, assume it's not solid coming the other way. I don't think this will cause rupee problems but I'll have to check to be sure. EDIT: Yeah, if I don't pick up any extra rupees I'll have exactly enough for the deku nut upgrade.

[Norkix]

r0b, I wasn't talking about the Wierd Egg, I was talking about the bridge rupees. You say it doesn't matter because you have to wait for dawn, but the sun should be just starting to set when you get there. You might have enough time to get the rupees before nightfall (factor in a half heart of damage for each one), but I'm not sure.

@Fox Ooooooh. Wow. Okay. Thanks for clarifying, that will come in handy

[r0bd0g]

You don't lose time picking up those rupees because either way you should make it to talon before the egg hatches. But uh, since you mention the fall damage from the chains, uh, route change, lol. Savewarp after deku take the 1/2 heart from the fall from the chains. It seemed actually a little tricky to take fall damage from that, like, it's barely high enough.

[TheWayfaringFox]

Okay, so I'm now through Segment 42.
-I used the explosive-fish method to damage myself for the Minuet CS skip. I didn't take damage before the RI warp in Shadow and the tektites seemed to be good for taking damage for the Bolero. Equipping the hover boots might speed this up here.
-The chu-hookshot trick works for the Forest Stage GS
-I used a bombchu and did a hookshot jump to reach the first GS in the Forest Temple
-I was able to grab the GS in the right courtyard from the edge right near edge to the water
-You can reach the archery game at night by hookshot clipping the left corner behind the house
-I came up with a route for the Gerudo Token and it was really easy. You enter the one closest to the gate first, then you leave through the other exit and HJ off of the box and enter the loading zone near there. Then you IDJ off of the vine and obtain the GS and the HP and enter to the next area. Then you leave and head back to the vine and head to the final carpenter. (I'll try to make this more detailed soon)
-I did a superslide to the archery GS and did a Sun's Song warp after the receiving the Gerudo Token
-I did a hoverboost and a jumpslash to reach the area with the HP early in the Ice Cavern
-You can (but it's pretty difficult and you need many bombs) skip pushing the block in the silver rupee room with megajumps
-I used the hover boots to damage buffer for the Serenade CS skip so I wouldn't move
-The trick for the claim check does not work because the timer starts immediately upon entering (it sucks I know  ), so should we perhaps get two other poes on the way to him?
-I don't think you can skip that annoying room with an HJ because the ceiling is flat
-I took damage form the GS on the tree and with the hover boots I didn't fall off
 

[r0bd0g]

UGH. About the claim check trick, did you test it with coming from the crater, assuming the heat timer does override it?
It could be possible that it's just the FW it doesn't work with.


I'll make changes to the route based on the rest of what you'd told me. A couple comments:

- I have a better route for the Windmill if you're damaging with tektites. Also I think I will just damage down all the way to 1/2 heart and use the damn moron tunic. Also I will move the rock wall GS to here so you can have another excuse to blow yourself up.
- Clipping into the archery house is faster than playing Sun's Song, right? I'll change the route for this to be in. If you're wondering what the deal was there, there's a Sun's Song warp after the Twin's House GS now and that vile segment continues until you can deliver the mushroom. It wasn't much of a time saver, so I didn't think it worth it to make that segment longer to include it, but now that I know you can clip in at night, it should save a decent amount of seconds, anyway.
- I don't understand how the Sun's Song warp is helping. The FW back to the training ground should be faster than a Sun's Warp and walking back out...
- Were you able to get the HP w/o blue fire, and where you able to skip the last red ice wall w/o blue fire? It wouldn't be the end of the world if you couldn't.
- The trick jumps I was referring to are where you like, run towards one of the holes, and then turn around at the right time. Link slides to the edge of the hole and jumps but the jump ends up going inward. You should be able to do that in both places where it'd be needed. Maybe you could find a video of this somewhere, IDK.
- How was the timing with fishing while on the eyeball frog timer?

[TheWayfaringFox]

The claim check was tested coming from the crater. If you just FW there the timer runs out before you land, and the timer ran out on literally the first roll.

I'll review the FW warp outside the training grounds. It was night when I got the Gerudo Token, so that's why I went to the skulltula and the Sun's Song warp took place.

I couldn't. The red ice is slightly different on 3d. I'll make sure to double check, however.

I'll start looking over the trick jumps. I must have not read that line or something.

Lol, I suck so bad at fishing that I knew I wouldn't be able to pull it off. I tried it later and it took longer than the timer. Are there any tips on this?

Edit: Trick jumps work. I will have to double check the HP like I said because I got a blue rupee in one area.

[r0bd0g]

Really you have to deliver that thing. Ugh.

My route said to make it day and do the archery first. I guess I dunno for sure if it's faster that way. I'm not sure how time of day is going to work out when you reach the next GS's in zora's river.

So the HP might work maybe, but the last red ice wall isn't skippable? To get the HP they put down a bomb to get some extra collision going. ZFG I think has a video of what he does on normal OoT.

Do you think there was enough time to get everything done, though, if you were able to pull up the fish right away? I'd hate to have to do it on the Eye Drops timer because already I have a lot of things I'd like to get during that, so that'll probably be tight too. It'll be a hell of a segment.

What's the fastest way to walk to Biggoron?