100% Segmented Team Run

[aleckermit]

Good info Darkeye.

I'm assuming we are using a 1-character name for sure because of the large amount of in-game talking we're going to do.

PS: A little heads-up to those who have v1.0 OoT on their Wii, the v1.0 save file and regular VC OoT save file look identical in every way so you'll have to figure out which save is which (shouldn't be much of an issue, I think save files are kept in order once they are copy pasted).

[Runnerguy2489]

I think it would be cool to choose "ZSR" and just lose the x amount of frames over the course of the run.

Here are some bomb locations:


Segment 20: ZR grass
Difficulty: This segment is already hard as hell and we are pressed for time to get to market. I'd say don't push this one. Plus we probably don't have less than 30 so only one drop would be useful.

Segment 20: Graveyard grass
Difficulty: Same as above pretty much.

Segment 24: 3 bushes near GC warp
Difficulty: Shrot segment and even though there are only 3 bushes it's only 5 seconds out of the way. Issues could be if we SS -> ESS past the owl (which is faster) instead of GJ.

Segment 26: Graveyard grass
Difficulty: This looks like a long segment but the grass is fairly early. I'd say AT LEAST one gotten here. Most likely 2 from the grass.

Segment 26: Dampe pot
Difficulty: Super easy, no reason not to grab this one.

Segment 31: Grass in LW
Difficulty: Pretty easy segment, not much out of the way. You have to wait for nut upgrade bomb to explode anyway so might as well get one from the grass.

Segment 31: Grass in Kokiri Forest
Difficulty: A little later in segment but it's right by the GS you are getting. Could even get lucky and get 2 here.

Segment 35: Kakariko grass
Difficulty: Easy segment but we may be pressed for time in time moving areas. This grass isn't the most ideal but it's not far out of the way.

Segment 39: Hyrule field grass w/ epona
Difficulty: Has poes already which are difficult. And you only really break like 4 grass things so I'd say no but it's a possibilty since it costs 0 time. Might as well go for it.

Segment 39: ZR grass
Difficuly: Same as above but more grass. I would hope at least 1.

Segment 41: Hylia grass
Difficulty: 3 grass areas, might as well hit one and try and get a bomb drop or two

Segment 43: Two grass by the tree or 3 grass areas
Difficulty: Neither of these are ideal so skip if possible I would say but both are possibilities.

Segment 49: Pots in WT
Difficulty: 2 bomb drops in pots near GS, must get since they are automatic and cost next to no time.

Segment 52: 2 bushes near tree
Difficulty: Wouldn't count on it with just two, and you'd have to do it after the long ass cs.

Segment 53: 2 pots with bombs
Difficulty: Already included in run; these are practically needed unless we have been very lucky with drops

Segment 54: 2 pots with bombs outside flare dancer
Difficulty: Doesn't take much time and automatic bombs are always good

Segment 54: Drop from flare dancer
Difficulty: Wouldn't count on getting it but if it comes out it's a bonus for sure.

Segment 56: Epona grass
Difficulty: Again these are pretty tough to get bombs from

Segment 58: Kill an armos
Difficulty: Might as well if we need bombs still; not too many places left to get them

Segment 60: Epona grass
Difficulty: See 56

Segment 62: Pot in falling spike room
Difficulty: Not really that far out of the way and I believe it's automatic




Additionally, I think we should at least attempt to work backwards or project somehow from the end where we will use bombs; that way we can have an idea of how many we should get in the end. There's no point working some of these segments to get bombs and then end the run with 20.

[aleckermit]

ZSR name would be sweet. We'd lose a few seconds over the course of the whole run but not a big deal.

[ING-X]

yeah in a 6+ hour run a few seconds isn't gonna make any difference lol.

[RingRush]

I see people are getting anxious to start running segments. I still say hold off until we get the route done, we are in no rush.

Also, I am highly for combining segments 1 and 2. Even if there was a full second of optimization lost, it would still be faster than splitting it. It isn't like segment 2 is extremely hard, especially since we don't grab any rupees. RG got his seg 2 in like 5 tries iirc, so I doubt we are going to lose any optimization at all. Plus, we have a ton of runners who will do this first segment, probably more than any other segment.

I think "ZSR" has pretty much been chosen as the character name. Make sure if you do an attempt to use that name.

Anyone want to step up to the plate and start testing how many bombs everything needs (preferably in stream)? RG has a state so you can start keeping track after the Biggest Bomb Bag (before then we should have enough...and if not, 1 drop isn't that hard to manage). Also keep track of chus...if we have leftovers after all of the hovers, they might be able to be put to good use somewhere. This probably means using an emulator to make sure you can nail all superslides and fairly optimize all hovers. Preferably, someone experienced will do this phase of the testing, as they'll know a lot of the tricks. I'd say ZFG, even though he can't stream, or maybe Pokey or Jiano. Or runnerguy if he ends up super bored and wants to put even more into this project despite already doing so much. Or even multiple people, as long as we have one final bomb route.

Finally, we need some organization on ZSR. We need an easy submission link that automatically puts segments in a "segment attempt" folder. After a few days for the easy segments or when we clearly get a good one for the hard segments, an admin can move one run from the attempt folder to a main "100% segments" folder.

[aleckermit]

Here's my submission for segment 1 (no sword): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfNumv38Jmk

No blue symbols, great save.

I don't think combining seg 1 and 2 will save more than a second. Having a sweet no-blue symbol intro + perfectly optimized seg 2 is better than saving a single second IMO (if it even will save any time which I doubt).

I'm not trying to rush the run ahead, this is just my submission if we choose to keep seg 1 and 2 separate.

[darkeye14]

I looked into the route and found where the Gold Skulltula count gets messed up:

GS in rock maze [8GS][27 B]
[...]
Know-it-all brothers GS [10GS]

GS in tree [25GS]
[...]
To Kakriko (get GS in tree on the way) (it should be night) [25GS]

Every Gold Skulltula count from "Know-it-all brothers GS" in Segment 10 to "GS in tree" in Segment 20 needs to be reduced by one. There are no other mistakes in the GS Route. I don't feel like going back and fixing pause counts because they're not important and they can't throw a runner off like a screwed-up GS count can.

I suppose I could help with the bomb(chu) counts, even though I don't know what the optimal explosive amount of explosives is for a lot of tricks. I think having 0 bombs/0 chus at the end of the game would look incredibly professional, as it would attest to the strength of our route and the ability of our runners to stick to that route. Should we work backwards from there?

[Runnerguy2489]

Can we please please please hold off on starting this? I know people are anxious but getting some kind of explosive route together is a huge task still...It took over a week just to go through the game and optimize pauses. If you want to get started on this then helping out with the bomb route would be ideal.

Additionally, we haven't even talked about uploading videos to youtube. Create a new youtube account and link to the segments through our youtubes seems like the best option...otherwise people are going to have to jump around a ton of accounts to view them all. Even if we create a playlist, people would have to check it constantly for new segments because they might not be subscribed to all of us. Plus I don't know about you guys, but if I have segments 3, 9, 12, 24, etc. I don't even want to think about all the stupid ass comments saying, "Where's segment x of your run?"

[aleckermit]

Can we please please please hold off on starting this? I know people are anxious but getting some kind of explosive route together is a huge task still...It took over a week just to go through the game and optimize pauses. If you want to get started on this then helping out with the bomb route would be ideal.

Additionally, we haven't even talked about uploading videos to youtube. Create a new youtube account and link to the segments through our youtubes seems like the best option...otherwise people are going to have to jump around a ton of accounts to view them all. Even if we create a playlist, people would have to check it constantly for new segments because they might not be subscribed to all of us. Plus I don't know about you guys, but if I have segments 3, 9, 12, 24, etc. I don't even want to think about all the stupid ass comments saying, "Where's segment x of your run?"

I am willing to help route, just let me know how I can assist. That Youtube account idea sounds excellent as well. I made the seg 1 submission just because it's an un-changing segment, I'm not trying to rush us into attempts yet, I just felt like doing my segment 1 attempt for submission while I had the time today.

[darkeye14]

Anyone who wants to help with the explosive route should download this: http://www.mediafire.com/?wlvgyqwggdag6y2

It's a Mupen savestate created right after obtaining the Biggest Bomb Bag in Segment 17. I downloaded RG's "dekutreeentrance.st" and played it up to that point in the run; the file possesses one more Piece of Heart at that point than the route projects, but RG's savestate came with it, so he is the only one who can explain it. Hopefully, if this savestate gets spread around to all the right people, we can create a high-quality explosive route.

[aleckermit]

I downloaded that Save-state and played through segment 20.

Some notes:

Segment 18 - Should do a SS to Saria cutscene if we can spare the bomb. This is an easy segment and a SS down the path to the Saria cutscene seems like common sense.

Segment 20 - How are we dealing with passing the rocks barrier in ZR (2 bombs, one for blowing up rock and one for ground jump to skip owl?). The Dampe Grave dig... first of all we need to make sure that we get into Kakariko soon after nightfall in order for Dampe to be in the graveyard. Also, how many tries are we willing to do to get a heartpiece? After getting into Shadow early, I had 29 bombs left (this included the SS to Saria cutscene but doesn't include a ground jump for skipping ZR owl). I'm pretty sure my hovering onto the seam was optimal (7 bombs total I think?). I collected a few rupees from grass and 5r behind Saria's house that I probably shouldn't have IDK... maybe like 7 total. Dunno if that matters but my total rupee count is 55 as of the start of segment 21.

Here's my savestate at the beginning of segment 21: http://www.mediafire.com/?efud5djllngnd3d

[ZFG]

Segment 20 - How are we dealing with passing the rocks barrier in ZR (2 bombs, one for blowing up rock and one for ground jump to skip owl?). The Dampe Grave dig... first of all we need to make sure that we get into Kakariko soon after nightfall in order for Dampe to be in the graveyard. Also, how many tries are we willing to do to get a heartpiece?

For ZR we're throwing a bomb at the rocks, drop another bomb and get ISG and GJ from it, roll into the tree for the GS, ISG to kill it then go past the rocks to buy bean.  When RG tested this he just barely made it to market by night and got to kakariko at the right time for dampe easily.  The HP must be gotten 1st try.  It'll be a hell of a hard seg but too bad.

About the bomb route, I don't think it needs another full playthrough, we should be able to figure out where to use bombs just from looking at it.  For tricks with unknown bomb counts, simply test them on another file.  We could do this in #route again later.

About combining segs 1 and 2, I actually think they should be combined.  I've gotten a few perfect to near perfect runs to the sword in MST, and without the need for rupees it should be even easier.  From alec's seg 1 it looks like it takes about 1.5 sec to save, which I think is more time than a less optimized seg 2 would lose.  Though of course we're talking about tenths of seconds here, maybe a second max, but it does seem like combining them would be faster.

[Runnerguy2489]

Anyone who wants to help with the explosive route should download this: http://www.mediafire.com/?wlvgyqwggdag6y2

It's a Mupen savestate created right after obtaining the Biggest Bomb Bag in Segment 17. I downloaded RG's "dekutreeentrance.st" and played it up to that point in the run; the file possesses one more Piece of Heart at that point than the route projects, but RG's savestate came with it, so he is the only one who can explain it. Hopefully, if this savestate gets spread around to all the right people, we can create a high-quality explosive route.

Cool thanks. Yes I have an extra heart and I have the DMC GS. We were testing these and I was able to collect both but we later decided this would be too hard for that segment and we pass by that area later anyway. There are probably other savestates that are inconsistent with the typed route; but the typed route is the most correct.

I also had to megaflip -> HESS to get to the market before night in that segment with Zora's River. When is the last time reset before this segment? Is it Saria's Song or Deku Tree? We need all segments with areas of time passing to be near perfect at that point.

[aleckermit]

From alec's seg 1 it looks like it takes about 1.5 sec to save

Saving on VC takes approx 1.9 seconds if done perfectly. That's with TAS perfection. My save took 2.2 seconds. VC has a ~1/2 second pause delay that the N64 doesn't have (Yes, I took the time to figure this out in Sony Vegas). GCN = 4/5 second pause delay.

[ING-X]

So i was right - VC DOES have pause delay! I knew there was something odd about the pauses on VC when I first played it. Did you just time the length of the pauses on all 3 versions and conclude that GCN and VC's pauses took longer than N64's?