Storage Discussion

[Abahbob]

Now that Dry Storage is possible, I think that we should look into Storage more. Specifically on what happens if you store certain cutscenes or dialogs. I'll explain my theory on how storage works.

Lets have an imaginary value. This value is at 0 when you aren't in a cutscene, and 1 when you are.

Taking out the Wind Waker does +1.
Putting away the Wind Waker does -1.

When Forest Water expires, it does +1.
Closing the dialog does -1.

When the Forest Water expires on the same frame as you pull out the Wind Waker, the Forest Water dialog overwrites the Wind Waker +1.
You now have +1 with the Wind Waker out, and the Forest Water box open.
Closing the box does -1, so you are at 0.
Putting the Wind Waker away does -1, so you are at -1.

-1 is Storage.

When you activate the next cutscene, it does +1, so you are at 0.
Since it's at 0, you can walk around normally and junk, but the text is saved somewhere.
When you activate another cutscene, the stored text is activated because it playing overwrites the new cutscene/text.


I don't think that -2 is possible, because I have managed to get into -1 with a dialog box open, and closing it didn't change anything or stack storages.

What I've noticed is that when you are a few frames from the ground in a WW dive, link slows down. Also, when you put away an item in the air, you jump up/down a little bit. When you put away the Wind Waker 3 frames from the ground, I believe it causes Link to move down and hit the ground on the next frame, so the Wind Waker stays out, but it does -1 and closes the HUD. The next putting away does another -1 and activates storage.

Now lets get some discussion going on.

[Nook]

Nice math, and that item put away is interesting.

Testing different scene interruptions could be great, for example if you can move during the Quill text on Dragon Roost, getting to the doorway load zone shouldn't be a problem. 

Maybe a storage PW skip? Not sure how that door does with storage. New BK skips for ToG, Wind, and Earth maybe too

[Abahbob]

if you can move during the Quill text on Dragon Roost, getting to the doorway load zone shouldn't be a problem. 

Storing that does nothing, it just plays again.

Maybe a storage PW skip?

Storage PW skip is old, I did it with door cancel, and I believe someone did it with chest storage.

New BK skips for ToG, Wind, and Earth maybe too .

ToG can't really skip the BK. Earth BK skip with chest storage has been tested ages ago iirc. Wind, possibly.

[Pottoww]

Nice math, and that item put away is interesting.

Testing different scene interruptions could be great, for example if you can move during the Quill text on Dragon Roost, getting to the doorway load zone shouldn't be a problem. 

Maybe a storage PW skip? Not sure how that door does with storage. New BK skips for ToG, Wind, and Earth maybe too

A "new" password skip does already exist. By storing KoRL's text and open the door to Tingle's cell you are able to get through the door on the pirate ship without entering a password.

I don't think there is any possibility to skip BK for Tower of the Gods, since you need the BK to open the sealed door which blocks you from getting out of the tower on your way to the boss room. About the Earth Temple, the skips we do have for that one atm seems to be faster than a storage skip would be, if I originate my words from my own testing. But idk. I have no idea about the wind temple. This might save some time on our way to the boss rooms though.

Anyway, very interesting theory Abahbob. I think you, at least, might be heading in the right direction with that! I have found some small tricks with this "dry storage" that would be useful in a tunerless run as well.

Btw, this glitch totally broke the game and I hate it since it took the feeling out of it </3

[rust45]

I'm not sure if this would be the right place the post this, but I want to share something that I found while learning to do PW with door storage.

I found out that if you pause while the screen is white from door cutscene, you can shortly see where you are. I found that this was very helpful in pulling off the password skip, as before I discovered that, I had trouble finding out where I was going even with the minimap.

[Abahbob]

I'm not sure if this would be the right place the post this, but I want to share something that I found while learning to do PW with door storage.

I found out that if you pause while the screen is white from door cutscene, you can shortly see where you are. I found that this was very helpful in pulling off the password skip, as before I discovered that, I had trouble finding out where I was going even with the minimap.

This is known, along with opening the map screen to see.

[rust45]

Oh, my bad then. Still though, since I found that out, I trust the door storage skip more than the ledge clip.

[Abahbob]

Storage can be used to skip the cutscene in DRC for the entering the main room.

[Yashichidsf]

It's not realistic to ever expect someone to get storage in an RTA to do that though, is it? I'm not really sure exactly how difficult WW diving with an object instead of a wall is since I never do it.

[Nook]

It is realistic, and while it's not the easiest thing it's certainly possible and has been used in the past few WR runs

[Yashichidsf]

That exact trick has been used? Seriously? I don't recall hearing about them or seeing them done...

[Matti]

A little thing about the form of wind waker dive that's commonly used to get dry storage, as I don't think everyone fully understands why only some ledges work for it.

There are two set-ups that can be used to get the dive:

1. Have an object at the top of the ledge that pushes you backwards and off the ledge.

2. Having link turn around when the wind waker is pulled at the top of the ledge. Link will turn around if there is a solid piece of geometry blocking where the camera needs to be when you pull the wind waker. This is the far more common form of dive spot used and you can tell the difference between the two by whether or not Link turns around for the dive. It also means that only specific points on some ledges will work, for example:



you can wind waker dive off this ledge (stonewatcher) only so long as you are standing with the tree blocking the camera's desired position.

[Abahbob]

That exact trick has been used? Seriously? I don't recall hearing about them or seeing them done...

No, not the exact trick. Also, that dive specifically is not realistic in a RTA, because it saves little time. A dive from a movable object going off a ledge that small is not realistic unless it saves 20+ seconds imo.

2. Having link turn around when the wind waker is pulled at the top of the ledge. Link will turn around if there is a solid piece of geometry blocking where the camera needs to be when you pull the wind waker. This is the far more common form of dive spot used and you can tell the difference between the two by whether or not Link turns around for the dive. It also means that only specific points on some ledges will work, for example:

Are you saying that Link turning around for the dive makes him more likely to dive?

[Matti]

Are you saying that Link turning around for the dive makes him more likely to dive?

To my knowledge it's one of the two ways you can get a dive. Being pushed off or having link turn around are sufficient on their own to enable the ledge climb wind waker dive. It doesn't make him more likely; for some ledges it's what makes him.

[GlitchesAndStuff]

To my knowledge it's one of the two ways you can get a dive. Being pushed off or having link turn around are sufficient on their own to enable the ledge climb wind waker dive. It doesn't make him more likely; for some ledges it's what makes him.

This is true yeah, but there are a few small exceptions in some places where ledges don't do that even if link turns around, not sure why, but because link doesn't get flipped along the center of where he is actually positioned, his location will be moved back when you wind waker dive. it's also how the backup spot at outset works, if anybody is wondering.

That exact trick has been used? Seriously? I don't recall hearing about them or seeing them done...

The trick you are talking about has a ledge facing a wall right before the cutscene trigger, there are a bunch of spots along there at different heights to climb up and get storage, and it's very easy to get it first try.