100% definition

[CloudMax]

Activating all cubes makes nooooo sense. We should only activate and open the chests that contain required items for 100%. If we decided to open them all, so much time would be spent just opening unneeded rupee chests, there's sooooo many rupees throughout the game in the overworld and in dungeons along the way to all destinations that we can get instead. We'll most likely be getting 50r from every boss fight when playing through boss battles for the heart piece and Hylian Shield alone (~650r total?).

I can agree on no ammo-carrying upgrades though, since the majority seems to agree with parax.

I still think 1 of each medal is the way to go. To me the game is giving you 2 routes to obtain the HC and rupee medal: If you have a lot of money you can buy them from beetle, if you want to go the more exploritory route you can find them in goddess chests. When I got both pairs of each finally, it felt redundant.

Absolutely no to maps IMO.

You do not spend much time opening the chests AT ALL, since you visit/revisit every single area in the game for different reasons.
A good route should make it so that opening all the chests only takes like 10 minutes, maybe even 20. But not more.
And I said activate cubes, I did not even mention opening them at all.

And like I said earlier, most people WILL be against maps.
I do not really see why. This is the 100% category, yet people try to keep it as low as possible, like as if it was a low 100% run. We'll skip most of most dungeons because of skipping the maps.
And I guess this is why people is against maps, because you have to do more parts of the dungeon, and people do not want to do that for some reason.
People want quiver upgrades, but they do not want to do the dungeons to get the maps, which is the most fun part of the game. I do not see the logic in that, at all.

Ohh well, Like I said before, it just seems like people try to remove as much as possible every time they come up with a 100% definition.
If we go by the current definition, we'll only do like 80% of the game tbh. No cubes, no cube chests, no shield upgrades, no maps.

Also, should we have to activate all the bird statues? I imagine most people will be against this aswell though.

If we're going to skip goddess cubes and stuff, then we should just keep it as low as possible, like:
All B Items (upgraded)
20 heart containers
9900 rupee wallet
5 bottles
8 pouch slots
Hylian Shield

I do not see a point in even considering getting the quiver/bags or 1 of each medal, if we do not even get the cubes. It is like the replacement for the heart piece searching. There is almost no heart pieces to be found in the game (on the ground) compared to earlier zelda games. Instead they've put a lot of cubes all over the game.

[aleckermit]

I don't see how activting the cubes has ANYTHING to do with 100%.

They're exactly like the cow in Link's house in OoT. We don't get the cow in 100% because it's not an item Link actually adds to his inventory, it's an overworld modification. Just like the goddess cubes/chests. Unless the 100% definition reqires you to OPEN all goddess chests, there's no reason to trigger all teh cubes. And I don't see the point in opening all teh chests.

We should prob do a poll for this. Figure out whether the majority wants ALL medals or 1 of each medal, and whether the goddess cubes/chests should be required. Also whether the ammo holders and their upgrades should be required.

[TheOnlyOne]

Goddess cubes and chests are the same as sea charts and underwater chests in the WW. And the gratitude crystals are akin to skulltullas/poes.

[aleckermit]

Goddess cubes and chests are the same as sea charts and underwater chests in the WW. And the gratitude crystals are akin to skulltullas/poes.

Exactly, and we don't get all charts/sea chests in TWW. The gratitude crystals aren't really a debatable issue since they're all required for the max wallett.

[CloudMax]

I don't see how activting the cubes has ANYTHING to do with 100%.

They're exactly like the cow in Link's house in OoT. We don't get the cow in 100% because it's not an item Link actually adds to his inventory, it's an overworld modification. Just like the goddess cubes/chests. Unless the 100% definition reqires you to OPEN all goddess chests, there's no reason to trigger all teh cubes. And I don't see the point in opening all teh chests.

We should prob do a poll for this. Figure out whether the majority wants ALL medals or 1 of each medal, and whether the goddess cubes/chests should be required. Also whether the ammo holders and their upgrades should be required.

The ammo holders are a temporary upgrade that most likely ends up in the bank. It won't be used. So it'll be just as useless as anything else.
The definition of 100% has always been questionable and will always be.
Getting all the cubes (including useless ones that gives rupees), is just like getting the last 50 golden skulltulas in OoT. It is completely useless, it is something you simply do because it feels like it is a part of 100%.
And skipping maps/compasses/boss keys are skipped simply because people didn't want to collect them, but in a true 100% (if 100% means getting everything), you would get them, no matter if you want to or not.
Everything is questionable, that is why we have this thread.

Getting the cubes is just as useless as many other things. And the cubes in this game is like I said earlier, the replacement for the heart piece searching. They've reduced the heart pieces by A LOT and put goddess cubes all over the game instead for those who likes the searching and puzzles which zelda really is all about. However, goddess cubes does not have a number in your pause screen, which for some reason makes it more useless than other items, when it really serves a bigger purpose than most required items.

So, 100% will always be broken. And right now we're deciding how broken it will be. And I'm fine with either requiring everything (except for opening chests), or require as little as possible. But just randomly throwing in what should be required and what shouldn't will just make the definition even more confusing and broken.

And the gratitude crystals are akin to skulltullas/poes.

They give the same rewards, but you collect them in entirely different ways. The cube collecting is much more similar to skulltulas than gratitude crystals ever will be, since you get almost all crystals from side-quests, which normally gives heart pieces in most games, which makes gratitude crystals similar to heart pieces.

Confusing, isn't it.

___________________

And one more thing:
Goddess cube hunting would make 100% runs much more interesting. Especially when it comes to the routes, and maybe we'll find different tricks to reach cubes earlier, etc.
The 100% category just seems boring and not interesting at all at the moment. It'd be any% with the side-quests and a lot of time in the bazaar upgrading items, and a rare few heart pieces that are found in the overworld/dungeons.
Cubes would be what really makes 100% into its own interesting category, without it, it has nothing special to offer.

[aleckermit]

The cubes should not all be activated, period. ESPECIALLY if you're not going to open them all. The sea chart/treasure comparison is a perfect parrallel with the goddess cubes/chests. You activate them, they show you where treasure is, and you open them all in teh first playthrough at random just to aquire a few HP's and inventory items. We should treat it as a weeding-out process to obtain teh real 100%-required items.

That out of the way, I say: 1 of each medal. I'm on the fence about the ammo holders.. they still meet 100% definition to me. Remember, 100% in gaming started from Metroid and that percentage went by items and upgrades Samus obtained.

[CloudMax]

That out of the way, I say: 1 of each medal. I'm on the fence about the ammo holders.. they still meet 100% definition to me. Remember, 100% in gaming started from Metroid and that percentage went by items and upgrades Samus obtained.

In metroid they didn't have hidden objects all over the game that you were supposed to find to get different rewards (goddess cubes). If there was, you'd probably have to collect them.
1 of each medal sounds stupid to me. either all medals, or none. if you have 2 apples and only pick one, it isn't 100%, it is 50%. I'm sure my math is correct. The medals are also completely useless. I've never ever used one (except for the 2 heart container medals).
And ammo holders is just another way of wasting time in the bazaar. Having to buy and upgrade them just to throw them away is way more annoying than finding the goddess cubes, period.

And from my last post:

Goddess cube hunting would make 100% runs much more interesting. Especially when it comes to the routes, and maybe we'll find different tricks to reach cubes earlier, etc.
The 100% category just seems boring and not interesting at all at the moment. It'd be any% with the side-quests and a lot of time in the bazaar upgrading items, and a rare few heart pieces that are found in the overworld/dungeons.
Cubes would be what really makes 100% into its own interesting category, without it, it has nothing special to offer.

What fun would 100% be (especially when it comes to watching) if the only differences from any% is:
play minigames
run around talking to NPCs to get gratitude points
hit a FEW of the goddess cubes
open up 1 extra chest in fire sanctuary (for a bottle)
spend extra time in the bazaar upgrading items for multiple minutes
and open up like 4-5 chests to get a few heart pieces (aswell as picking up a rare few on the ground. those will only add a few minutes though. You'd barely notice it.)

In my opinion, goddess cubes is the only single thing in the entire game that really would make 100% interesting, since everything else in 100% is just watching someone run around talking to NPCs and open like 5 extra chests in the entire game.

[aleckermit]

Hitting goddess cubes (especially to make a chest appear that you don't need and will not open) is not fun. Whether you think the goddess cubes are more fun to require or not is beside the point anyway, they aren't obtainable items that Link adds to his inventory or quest screen, or pouch. They're just switches that make chests appear.

SS does have a lack of mini-games that reward HP's and items but that doesn't mean we need to make up for that by adding bogus requirements to 100%.

[mzxrules]

If this was Metroid Prime, Goddess cubes would have been part of the 100% just like visor scans would be.

Another thing... All dowsing targets or no?

[darkeye14]

Remember, 100% in gaming started from Metroid and that percentage went by items and upgrades Samus obtained.

But in Metroid, you can't just buy unlimited Missile Tanks in a store; you collect them once, and then they're gone forever. It made sense to require the Biggest Bomb Bag in OoT because (disregarding RBA shenanigans) you could only get it once. And the MM 100% definition is based entirely around the items you don't lose when going back in time (i.e. the items you can only get once). The ammo upgrades in SS aren't permanent (you can put them in storage or even sell them), and they aren't unique (you can fill the Item Check entirely with Large Quivers if that floats your boat), so comparing them to OoT's ammo upgrades or to Metroid just doesn't make sense. Just because it's a Quiver doesn't mean it's anything like OoT's Quiver.

[aleckermit]

But in Metroid, you can't just buy unlimited Missile Tanks in a store; you collect them once, and then they're gone forever. It made sense to require the Biggest Bomb Bag in OoT because (disregarding RBA shenanigans) you could only get it once. And the MM 100% definition is based entirely around the items you don't lose when going back in time (i.e. the items you can only get once). The ammo upgrades in SS aren't permanent (you can put them in storage or even sell them), and they aren't unique (you can fill the Item Check entirely with Large Quivers if that floats your boat), so comparing them to OoT's ammo upgrades or to Metroid just doesn't make sense. Just because it's a Quiver doesn't mean it's anything like OoT's Quiver.

I can sway to the majority on ammo holders and all medals vs. 1 of each medal but I can't agree with the cubes, I think my reasoning is sound.

What's your opinion on the cubes darkeye?

[CloudMax]

SS does have a lack of mini-games that reward HP's and items but that doesn't mean we need to make up for that by adding bogus requirements to 100%.

Then do not add 1 of each medal and ammo holders.
They are just as bogus as anything else.
It is just stupid.

1 of each medal does not make any sense at all. Why would you ever only get 1. Either all, or none. That is the most logical thing to do.
And the ammo holders is just a time waster, it is a temporary upgrade you choose to equip that doesn't upgrade link permanently in any way.

I'd say either throw in as much as possible into the 100% category, or keep it to the lowest, without any stupid things at all.

All dowsing targets or no?

I think we should unlock all dowsing targets. It is something you unlock permanently and it is on the UI even.
The same goes for bird statues (which some people will be against), it serves as a warp point in the game, and it is something you unlock. I do not see how these could be skipped in a 100%. And no shit can explain why it shouldn't be in the definition.

[darkeye14]

I think the Goddess Cubes are kind of dumb. It seems pointless to hit a cube that you're not even going to get treasure from anyways (though some unnecessary cubes might come in handy for buying expensive things from Beedle). It would be like spawning a treasure chest in OoT, and then not opening it. It just seems like a waste of time.

And from my last post:What fun would 100% be (especially when it comes to watching) if the only differences from any% is:

Adding arbitrary items to the definition seems like an SRL goal, not a rational and sensible criteria for which items to collect. No-OoB MM any% is way more fun than the standard any%, but it's just not a realistic category. If the 100% run is boring, then it's the game's fault, not the fault of the people who came up with the definition.

[aleckermit]

I really don't think any of the rupee goddess chests will come in handy. Unless the cube is in Link's direct path and its chest is on an island that has an item we need.

As for bird statues, I think whatever we decided with MM's owl statues applies here.

[CloudMax]

I really don't think any of the rupee goddess chests will come in handy. Unless the cube is in Link's direct path and its chest is on the same island as a HP/medal/pouch chest.

As for bird staatues, I think whatever we decided with MM's owl statues applies here.

In the IRC they clearly told me NOT to compare with oot/mm definitions, because they said that a lot of stuff is questionable in those definitions aswell.

I just think bird statues should be collected it just seems logical.

And rupee chests should be totally useless if you play hero mode (which you most likely will do), since you just can sell your rare treasure for 300 rupees each, and it goes really fast.