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Author Topic: PAL N64/VC OoT Thread  (Read 14093 times)
Jbop
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Twenty-three is number one! Do you think I'm a traitor?

Posts: 231



« on: November 24, 2014, 07:30:34 PM »

Version Differences

Differences from NTSC

Basics:
Framerate is 5/6ths as fast as NTSC (50FPS vs 60FPS)
Rolls are shorter and slower on average.
Player can choose between English, French, and German as the language.
    English is faster than French. French is faster than German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoScv8Ro3Xk

Not Basics:
Nabooru CS skip does not work - http://www.twitch.tv/hyperion64/c/4161285
It is easier to crash the game by using magic after playing the Song of Storms
    (also possible, but much harder, on NTSC) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQNKT6kxHw

PAL 1.0 Info

- Compiled after NTSC 1.1 but before NTSC 1.2
- Nayru's Love crash works as in NTSC 1.1/1.2
- Bongo Bongo CS skip works like in NTSC 1.0/1.1
- Ass Chest contains bombs

PAL 1.1 Info

- Compiled after NTSC 1.2
- Nayru's Love crash is fixed
- Bongo Bongo CS skip does not work.
- Ass Chest contains Fire Arrows


Setups

Gerudo Valley bridge skip with Hookshot - http://www.twitch.tv/hyperion64/c/3964640
Deku Tree B1 skip backup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cxn00JsIxM
Naviless with stick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh4Y0Q-mMWs
Zora's River ZL skip with megasidehop - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS9B5TZMoNo
Lake Hylia Lab clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpIve00R9VE
Forest Medallion CS skip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjoRpKdf1Xc
SS Teleport to Shadow Temple - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfSU_AukwWM



Speedruns

Any%            [27:50 - ENG] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HABsAd8C6yM
No RBA/WW [2:40:09 - ENG] - http://www.twitch.tv/hyperion64/c/3867631
No WW        [1:17:18 - ENG] - http://www.twitch.tv/hyperion64/c/4333811
Ganonless    [1:52:30 - GER] - http://www.twitch.tv/remidemmi/c/5168283
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 08:23:30 PM by Jbop » Logged

Quote from:  ZFG on March 24, 2008, 8:27:24 AM
Quote from:  Prognosis_4 on March 24, 2008, 8:25:50 AM
Why are you guys so certain it's possible?
Because its OoT.
Jbop
Moderator
Twenty-three is number one! Do you think I'm a traitor?

Posts: 231



« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 09:51:44 PM »

- Reserved -
Logged

Quote from:  ZFG on March 24, 2008, 8:27:24 AM
Quote from:  Prognosis_4 on March 24, 2008, 8:25:50 AM
Why are you guys so certain it's possible?
Because its OoT.
Pedalpowertoast
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2014, 12:45:27 AM »

Good shit.

E:Nah I'll just add, what's the PAL GC version like?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 12:51:08 AM by Pedalpowertoast » Logged

http://www.youtube.com/user/Pedalpowerluigi

Using a slow version on purpose is your choice, but you will get no sympathy or agreement from me.
Lol
Jbop
Moderator
Twenty-three is number one! Do you think I'm a traitor?

Posts: 231



« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2014, 01:41:39 AM »

Good shit.

E:Nah I'll just add, what's the PAL GC version like?

Essentially NTSC GC, which is why I didn't include it.
Logged

Quote from:  ZFG on March 24, 2008, 8:27:24 AM
Quote from:  Prognosis_4 on March 24, 2008, 8:25:50 AM
Why are you guys so certain it's possible?
Because its OoT.
Hyperion64
Deku Scrub

Posts: 16


« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2014, 05:43:54 PM »

The roll animation is one frame shorter on PAL than on NTSC which has a surprisingly huge impact on some glitches.

- you can't megaflip/megasidehop/HESS off of single frame damage sources as in:
> Deku Baba megasidehop as B1 skip (you can still do something like this)
> GS WESS for Mido skip
> GS WESS in Zora's River for the rock clip

- that also cancels ISG in midair or before Link leaves the ground:
> 37th HP in Gerudo Fortress as child using a megaflip to reach the loading zone (hovering over the wall inside the building still works)
> Tektite hover for fishing pond early
> Gerudo bridge megaflip using ISG near the ledge
> forest escape using the Business Scrub (Cosmo escape)
> faster Deku B1 skip method of the GS hover with a megaflip

- some timing based tricks involving rolls become more difficult or might not work at all:
> rolling from the switch in Jabu Jabu's Belly

Maybe some of these glitches actually work but their positioning would be incredibly precise. One bomb superslides are possible on PAL as an example but noone has found a consistent way of performing them as adult.
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Hyperion64
Deku Scrub

Posts: 16


« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 01:25:00 PM »

Adding some general info first: (which is already known, just for the sake of completion)
The music in OoT has the same tempo but has a lower pitch on the PAL version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWk0BRS_8Qw
Pausing for the first time after a console reset enters 'map' screen on NTSC instead of the 'select item' screen on PAL.

More or less important PAL setups:
swordless aqua escape (easy) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh4Y0Q-mMWs
Sleepless Waterfall skip in Zora's River - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS9B5TZMoNo
Lake Hylia house clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpIve00R9VE

I need to record a lot of setups now so let me know if you have priorities for certain tricks. I'll be working on speedruns as well because people shouldn't be shocked at how terrible PAL performances are.
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Hyperion64
Deku Scrub

Posts: 16


« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 10:24:43 PM »

Forest Medallion CS skip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjoRpKdf1Xc
SS teleport to Shadow Temple - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfSU_AukwWM

The Forest Temple cutscene skip is one of the few setups which is faster and easier on the PAL version. The main reason for that is because rarely anyone is searching for PAL setups. I'm just trying to get more people involved in the PAL scene.
It would be good to know which categories people are interested in so I can work on specific tricks. The current work in progress list includes general glitches as well (like superslides, megaflip/-sidehop, HESS, weirdshot, etc.). Feedback is highly appreciated on both the videos I posted and priorities for the ones I'm about to record.
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Valientlink
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2014, 05:13:21 PM »

Afaik, the pitch on the PAL version is only altered in project64. When played in nemu64, the pitch is normal. Console PAL also has the correct pitch a majority of the time. However, in this vid, the pitch is lowered on console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQNKT6kxHw Also apparently, magic arrows after playing the song of storms can crash on PAL according to this vid.
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whyieyesya
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 09:04:50 PM »

I believe PAL N64s use a different frequency to generate sound. Perhaps that is why the pitch is different.

I still want to do a mod on an N64, so I can switch between clock frequencies corresponding to NTSC and PAL consoles. I am pretty interested in what that will do with the sound.
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Jbop
Moderator
Twenty-three is number one! Do you think I'm a traitor?

Posts: 231



« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 12:35:40 AM »

Watching DeathBasket do runs on N64, it seems like N64 is the correct pitch also. PAL VC for me definitely is.
Logged

Quote from:  ZFG on March 24, 2008, 8:27:24 AM
Quote from:  Prognosis_4 on March 24, 2008, 8:25:50 AM
Why are you guys so certain it's possible?
Because its OoT.
Hyperion64
Deku Scrub

Posts: 16


« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 11:51:59 AM »

I don't know what causes the pitch difference in this video but I'm pretty sure Chain noticed the pitch difference in his N64 version as well. I'll look out for that when I'm testing different cartridges.
About the Song of Storms - magic arrows crash: The reason for it seems to be the whirlwind-like animation sorrounding Link in combination with magic arrows. I wasn't able to reproduce it when it wasn't visible/about to vanish. It is possible to crash on the NTSC version as well, however the animation is way shorter. It's easier to reproduce with input buffering after Song of Storms or playing the song with Ocarina items using the bow in order to skip the pulling out animation. I couldn't crash it with Fairy spells or Zelda's bar opening spell during tower collapse. It might be impossible to have these animations overlap with the Song of Storms.

Edit: Video footage of the crash on project64 NTSC and PAL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8bLyyRtfYM
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:40:48 PM by Hyperion64 » Logged
Hyperion64
Deku Scrub

Posts: 16


« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2015, 05:42:20 PM »

A few updates after having been rather inactive on PAL searches:
DC WW initial position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPaDcAw0LJc
DC WW non-initial position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao40-5o50Ok
SS setup from Fairy Fountain exit to DC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twAJXuTfkLc
doom jump setup in DC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTEw2uTbqBs
Zora's Fountain weirdclip for the strength GS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGIdzuu1KhE
quickdraw bottle on B with a bomb (adult): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQKLFpGWOJk

My Deku Tree WW adjustments aren't what I'd like them to be but Nox has come up with a setup which is similar to the NTSC one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqzl0xexlZU
I often find other setups which I deem slower or more difficult than the ones I'm posting. If anyone wants to improve a certain setup and appreciates input/inspiration, contact me.

I also got a new PB for no WW with 1:12:07 (http://www.twitch.tv/hyperion64/c/5721544)
The PB in ganonless with 1:12:02 was really sloppy so I won't highlight it... I'll try to beat it until next week, though.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 12:16:02 PM by Hyperion64 » Logged
ING-X
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 02:37:44 AM »

Pitch is lowered on PAL ROMs because of the slower framerate; the PAL N64 outputs a higher audio frequency to compensate for this.

The shorter rolls on PAL also make superslides much more difficult; a lot of the time they just plain don't work off of bombs as adult link (I think it depends on how many objects are loaded, similar to contortion hover).
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<complex> the thing where everything you say is fucking retarded


<ethandude> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual cheak this out luxury it might come in helpful when u wright your resime
Valientlink
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2015, 04:21:39 PM »

These are pointless things to really include, but worth noting I think. PAL and US action icon and B text size definitely differs (obviously related to different refresh rates) Although gamecube looks more like NTSC aside from attack and stop text. It's interesting how the pre-release (prob September 98 or so) B button text is small, and resembles the PAL look.



Btw, image size differs between pal "stop" and eng, but eng one is definitely larger if you see it in gameplay (I took these from videos)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 01:07:31 AM by Valientlink » Logged

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SgtPepper
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2015, 12:57:31 AM »

I feel so bad for the Europeans out there who had to deal with PAL. It's sooooo sloooowww...
So is NTSC-U anyway, but only because of text speeds, which isn't as severe of a drawback.
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actually HESS stands for Hyper-Extended Super Swag
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