Tricks/Glitches/Timesavers topic

[RheaultWnage]

Quick access to Desert Palace with Vulture Bump!  Get bumped onto the edge of the stairs nearest the entrance, and just walk on over.

Just timed this, took me 21 seconds between unmerging from the portal and entering the loading zone of the Palace. I also timed the slowest method to reach the Palace (didn't have the Energy Scroll) and it took me 52 seconds. If I remember correctly, the method using the Scroll was 17 seconds faster than the long one, so the new method would be about 14 seconds faster than the Scroll one.

Good find.

[kirbymastah]

Hm IIRC zander told me that the stamina scroll ultimately saves 15 seconds from the merge-method of reaching desert palace alone (and it also saves little bits of time in several minor spots, but let's ignore that for now). So if we do the vulture method, then would skipping the stamina scroll be worth it?

Also that trick looks annoying to do =/

[ZanderGoth]

it would seem the vulture method saves about 20 over the scroll but the scroll is kinda used for other skips/fights. not getting it would prolly end in a bad boss fight/trick later on.

[RheaultWnage]

Stamina Scroll is pretty useful for the Turtle Rock sequence break, the Dark Big Key room (although there is an energy potion nearby), the Gemesaur fight (energy potion nearby), both Arrghus fights (if you use the Ice Rod), merging the wall during that pink fairies attack in the Yuganon fight, [maybe more].

I don't think it's required for any of those, but it does make life much easier.

[Roadagain]

Wouldn't Merging during Yuganon waste a bit of time? I always figured it does that, so I just dodge the little buggers.

As far as the other ones, I think the big ones are Turtle Rock and Gemesaur. If Gemesaur can be prevented from moving while still getting the Stamina Potion, that should be another non-issue, but the Turtle Rock sequence break is tough as it is.

So it seems this strat will move the Stamina Scroll to the list of stuff to eventually stop getting, just like the tunics. It makes stuff easier, but ultimatel wastes a bit of time.

[kirbymastah]

The turtle rock sequence break would be terribleto do without the stamina scroll; you'd likely be forced to wait between each ice rod use, so it refills a bit between each platform. I don't think skipping stamina scroll would ultimately be worth it honestly =/ I mean idealy yeah, but in a realistic run...

[Hornlitz]

You end up wasting a least 20 seconds getting the scroll though, because you have to go back up the moving platform, and I don't know if it's just me, but I always have to wait a while for the platform to come down again. I'm not sure it would be worth it to get the scroll unless you can get up the moving platform right away. (Then again, I'm not sure how much time these tricks save, so maybe it is worth it.)

[kirbymastah]

Well there are several minor spots where stamina scroll helps, including the bosses of Dark Palace and Turtle Rock. Heck, with stamina scroll, you can finish off the mask of the dark palace boss without the stamina refill (MAYBE you can do that without? I don't think so?).

Helps also for stealth skip pre-Dark Palace if the chompy enemy is in a bad spot, since you'll have to use sand rod a lot more to shove him into that corner.

[KingOfHeart]

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6440063/albw/cucco_up_ledges.jpg < I'm confused on how you got on this ledge

[RheaultWnage]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6440063/albw/cucco_up_ledges.jpg < I'm confused on how you got on this ledge

I remember seeing a video of this. The guy circled in the air with the cucoo and got there. I don't remember if he went there straight from that ledge where you can jump, or if he went on some house or something else first. IIRC, he couldn't go on the grass left of him either.

Also, I just did a run without getting the Energy Scroll. It is very viable if you practice a few key things first (Mostly Gemesaur King, but also Turtle sequence break and Dark Maze skip). It also allowed me to put Ice Ruins last, which was much less stressful. And it pretty much guaranteed I didn't have to go to the fairies, potentially saving even more time.

Only downside I could think off from doing Ice Ruins last: 1 or 2 more textbox(es) overall, due to 1 more warp with rescued Irene.

[Roadagain]

Gemesaur shouldn't ultimately waste that much time depending how he's positioned. I think ultimately, it's going to come down to how much does the Stamina Scroll stuff save, including the smaller stuff.

For now, I'd definitely go with the Stamina Scroll, as it's not likely to save that much time anyways.

[RheaultWnage]

For now, I'd definitely go with the Stamina Scroll, as it's not likely to save that much time anyways.

I timed the difference between going down to get the Scroll or moving along without it. Depending on how the elevator back up cycle goes, I'd say getting the Scroll adds between 13-17 seconds right there.

Now, not having the scroll for both the Turtle Rock and Gemesaur adds a little time, in the range of 2-3 seconds each. Your previous post made me realise how stupid (unless you're literally about to die) it is to merge during the fairies attack in the Yuganon fight, so the Scroll doesn't matter there.

Dark Maze skip isn't aftected at all, unless you get REALLY bad luck with the enemies placement/movement. Actually no, that's not true. I saw Zander do a textbox skip in the area just before the skip (merge the wall and move along until past the prison, skips the MUST CAPTURE INTRUDERS text). Doing that isn't a good idea without the scroll, because it will drain most of your Energy before you can even start setting the skip up. I don't think skipping the textbox saves much time though, because you're moving slower while merged (dash towards south-east when not merged), and the distance is a bit long.

Big Key room in Dark Palace isn't a problem now that I learned how to properly throw those goddamn bombs. If I miss one, grab the potion, wastes 2 seconds. Both Arrghus fights are barely hindered. Skip every other Ice Rod attack, waiting for it to recharge. I lose more energy from missed Hookshots than anything else anyway.

And I like doing Ice Ruins last because I'm scared eh.

[Teague]

I dunno I still think overall it should be gotten.  I think people just have to get over the Ice Ruins, I do it third or fourth and its not bad once you've done it a bunch.

[kirbymastah]

The Ice Ruins really isn't that bad once you know where all the dangerous spots are and practice it. The boss is also easy if you use the tornado rod strat to dodge the triangle attacks. If you go into the fight with full health, you should have at least 7 hearts, meaning you can take one hit from the triangle attacks (4 hearts) and one hit from the ice ball attacks (2 hearts).

[RheaultWnage]

The Ice Ruins can get easier with a lot of practice.
The skips and boss fights without the Scroll can get easier with a lot of practice.

I have practiced both a fair amount of time, and I've gotten pretty decent at the Ice Ruins if I may say so. The thing is, with 7 hearts, there's not much room for error, and we all know shit can easily hit the fan during a run. (hell, I felt from the Turtles going to Turtle Rock in my PB) I've gotten past the Ice Ruins more often than not when I was doing it 3rd, but I'm not an adept dying 90 minutes into a run.

I'd rather mess up the Gemesaur fight really bad and lose 15 seconds than slightly mess up Dharkstare or that room with the Eyegores and lose my run.

Both routes are viable, pick yours.