ZSR Forums

RTA Route: http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/mm/routes/any-rta

ing... all you did was add in was an extra bomb drop and hess, keeta made this route entirely >_>

iknorite :3

I fixed the bomb route, we forgot that you can just get bomb drops before and after depositing eggs. I also edited some things to be more specific.

Good luck with this ing

you are either the good of bomb tricks or this is impossible xD

one question, why do you go to the swamp normally? I can't see any advantages

saves explosives and has Pirates Fortress right after Zora Mask

I'm not sure if it's actually faster but it seems theoretically so.

i actually thought about this today, not really sure if the time it takes to go through the path to the swamp makes up for the time gained by doing great bay in one visit. I think it probably does, though.


Yo I'm almost as consistent with megaflips as I am with ISG what up. :P

I'm pretty comfortable with the old school stt bk skip (the one that has a vid on zsr), so I've added that to the route. I get it about as consistent as the one jiano uses and it's faster and saves more explosives.

Alright I've confirmed that going to swamp first is faster. If you wrong warp before woodfall you have to do an extra bomb shop trip before woodfall, which also complicates the shit out of the rupee route, definitely wasting far more time than taking the path to the swamp. I've also finished testing the route, and everything seems to work out fine as it's written.

hmm, I timed it back when I planned the TAS route and going to the swamp was way slower. I also can't see how doing great bay in one trip saves any time at all. there is no backtracking or anything if you don't do GB in one trip.

I believe you, though, if you timed it. other than that if there is a bomb route advantage it is quicker for sure.

good luck with the run btw ;)

Son, I am proud

Alright I've gotten rid of the 6 explosive GBT BK skip after determining that it is not only most likely slower (due to pretty much needing pause buffering), but is also way too hard for a single segment even with pause buffering. The height and angle needed is just way too precise.

EDIT: I just did some timing for keeta's new route, and this is what I found compared to my old route (which was basically the same thing as keeta's except it got adult's wallet and didn't delay zora mask):

skipping adult's wallet - 1:10 saved
path to swamp - 1:20 lost
deku bigocto skip - 0:40 lost
bombs after bottle dupe - 0:05 lost
2 extra bomb drops in gb - 0:10 lost
no sos to gb - 0:15 saved
less chus for gbt - 0:10 lost
no flying zora - 0:15 saved
extra bomb drops in snowhead - 0:20 lost
no ikana owl or swim to swamp - 0:45 saved
more chus in stt - 0:30 saved

TOTAL: 0:10 saved

Combine this with my old route, which had the following changes over jiano's 1:53 route:

hess in great bay - 0:05 saved
flying zora - 0:15 lost
hess through woods of mystery - 0:10 saved
zora hess to bigocto - 0:10 saved
no bomb shop trip before woodfall - 1:10 saved
megaflip to torch - 0:10 saved
megaflip bk skip - 0:05 lost
megahover into pf - 0:07 saved
no pause buffering in gbt - 0:15 saved
no bomb drops in snowhead temple - 0:20 saved
chu hovers to snowballs - 0:15 saved
megaflip gap to goht - 0:03 saved
hess to stone tower - 0:05 saved
no bomb shop trip before stt - 1:10 saved
5 less chus in stt - 0:20 lost
2 drops from nejirons - 0:20 lost (luck manipulation taken into account here)
old school stt bk skip - 0:15 saved
no pause buffering for bk skip - 0:30 saved

TOTAL: 3:45 saved

This means that the 2 routes combined save about 3:55 total. Take the turtle cs skip into account (which I timed to save 1:20) and we have an estimated 5:15 saved over jiano's 1:53. take about 3 minutes of N64 lag and loading times into account and that's still over 2 minutes saved over his run.

So my estimated time is around 1:51 for this run. goods hit.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: OK I'M A FUCKING MORON. I mistimed the path to swamp to be 1:20 when it was actually 1:30 (I must have used the game clock and forgot about the gossip stone time stop and the deku mask cutscene). So keeta's route is actually A COUPLE SECONDS SLOWER than my old one.

Keeta I am disappoint. T_T

Alright I'm kind of in a dilemma and I need some advice on what to do regarding the megahover up stone tower.

Megahovering up stone tower allows me to skip the bomb shop trip prior to entering the temple, which saves about a minute and 10 seconds. However, inside the temple I'll have to use 5 extra bombs and get 2 or 3 extra bomb drops from the nejirons, overall wasting about 40 seconds. This, combined with the fact that it doesn't even change the rupee route at all (skipping buying bombs after snowhead leaves me with 70R to buy steal chus with), means that the megahover up stone tower only saves about 30 seconds. Considering how late in the run it is and how hard it's going to be to get all those megaflips with the lag (which exists on every version of the game), I don't know if it's worth it.

Thoughts?

I think you should skip the megahovers. Way too much risk for too little reward, especially that late in the run.

dont do them, they are not reliable

lol sig, megahovers are fine, it's just doing that many of them in a row that's a huge problem. It's why I had to cut woodfall BK skip down to 3 megaflips instead of 7.

I would say skip them, only because megaflipping in Stone Tower is ultra-shitty.

I got a 1:53 today on N64, 15 seconds faster than Jiano's run. It was nearly perfect up to lullaby skip, but then I got fucked over by the wind and from there everything went downhill. I'm definitely going to redo, but if you're interested in watching it I have a ustream recording (http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10163219) of it.

Alright I'm comfortable with megahovering up stone tower so it'll be in my run now. I edited the route to incorporate this by skipping the bomb shop trip BEFORE climbing stone tower (rather than the one after) which avoids silly nejiron luck manipulation altogether and is probably faster all on its own. I figured out that I'm MUCH more consistent at the megahovers if I wait for the smoke to clear after doing a megaflip (this dramatically lowers the amount of lag).

Alright sorry for the triple post but this is pretty important.

As you all know I am extremely indecisive and can't decide whether to do this run on N64 or VC. VC has the obvious advantage of being 2-3 minutes faster due to less lag and faster loading, but I'm far more comfortable with N64 and play better on it. Furthermore, N64 has the advantage of HESS which will make the end product look much better.

Help? D:

IMO, speedrunning is also for entertainment, not just amazing time.
I'd sooner watch a run with cooler tricks than less lag.
Seriously, go N64.  ;)

I don't agree. If you want entertainment, go make a TAS. A Speed Run consist of the fastest acheivable way to beat a game. So you mean since RBA on OoT isn't entertaining, you would rather make a Non-RBA run ? Cmon, same thing for Sm64, no BLJs ? Less lag and faster loading times are factor to be taken seriously if you want to do a REAL speed run, aka beating the game as fast as possible. If, loading times + less lag saves more time than what could be saved with HESS'es, than go for VC imho, if you aim for beating the fastest real time speed run to date. If you aim for SHOW OFF, then go N64. Hope I got my point across lol.

I thought somebody would say something like that.
Saying this in a better way, non-TAS is for showing off skill - I'd be far more impressed with cooler tricks than a couple minutes less lag.
That's just me, though.

As I said, it all depends on what you aim for, showing off skill while loosing time or optimising your run with the best time you could pull off. Anyways, that's just me we all got our own point of views. So I would say ing : go with what you think fits the best for you in order to save time.

Yes, in a heartbeat. I would also rather watch a non-rba run as well.

A quote from SDA though, which I think sums up what you are trying to say. Although it's not really a quote to live and die by, as you don't see many speedrunners going out and getting the japanese versions of games to have quicker text. 

I would do it on the N64 if that is what you are most comfortable with. The run should be about you having fun (That is why we play games, right?) and not about pleasing other people on the internet.

I completly agree with you. By rather non-rba I meant that you would sacrifice your speedrun's time to give entertainment while a speedrun defines itself by beating x game in an optimized time. Of course you would watch it since it's more entertaining than a RBA run. But if you wanna Make one, considering the entertainment for viewers is like setting an own limit to yourself. And none plays on NTSC-J majora's mask because the time you would save by faster texts would be lost by all the bugs that slows you down. It's not like NTSC-J OoT, it's way more horrible control wise.

Then again, it depends on what you care about : time or entertainment for viewers. And if you actually play Majora's Mask, you should have fun no matter how you wanna do your speedrun.

Another thing to consider: I can easily beat jiano's 1:53 using N64 version even though he was on VC. Either way, SDA will accept an N64 run with better play quality over a VC one with worse play quality, even if the VC one is technically faster.

So I think I'll go with N64. I'm definitely gonna need a new controller before I can do that though, lol.

Moved megahovers up stone tower to before GBT so it isn't so late in the run.

EDIT: Turns out flying zora is unnecessary too. I edited the route again to take that out. This should make that beginning much easier (no more stupid bullshit that wastes 15+ seconds if you fail it gg).

Alright, my new N64 controller came in the mail yesterday, and it's amazing (I can actually run full speed without having to push as hard as I can on the stick). My only problem so far is that it's still sometimes kind of a pain in the ass to turn exactly 180 degrees (although it's much better than my old one) and HESS is a bit harder since I'm used to having a gigantic deadzone on my stick. Fortunately I'm starting to get used to it, so expect a finished run within the next week ;D

Sorry for the quadruple post.

I've eased up the route a bit, I think I made it a bit too hard for a single segment run to rely on (hence my constant resets). My route is now very similar to the WIP jiano wrote, with a few differences (mainly added HESSes). The main thing I had to cut out was the excess megaflips, which I've been failing a lot and have been actually LOSING time from rather than gaining time. I also cut the megahovers up stone tower (I can get it sometimes but I still fuck it up way too much to be reliable). There may be a few other differences from my old route but I don't think it's anything major.

I'm pretty sure a time of 1:52 or better (on N64) is submittable.

Sounds good. Keep at it Ing hope you get a good run soon.

Forgot to post this after updating the route about a week ago lol

I've gotten way more comfortable with megaflips recently, so I've put them back in the route. This is serious business time - we are gonna get a submittable run before year's end ;D

...hopefully :P

Godspeed, ing.

Year's end = tomorrow. Make it happen.

liar

fuck you zero D:

Completely re-written route. It's not all that different from what I had written there except that it's not plagiarized and is more specific (it even has the pauses routed :P)

The pause for the Ocarina of Time in First Cycle isn't in the route.
.reject

i win

who wants to commentate on my run :O

id be glad to

gratz :D

this guy

Here's an LQ of my run: http://www.mediafire.com/file/up66x75bt6ler9u/mm149_LQ.mp4

Pretty good imo, only real mistakes were in stone tower and inverted STT (and even those weren't that bad).

Wow nice run, grats. You should upload it to youtube.

Congratulations!!
Will you have a HQ version of the run available for download, or Youtube or w.e?

Also, have you considered making a commentary version, that would be awesome.

Yeah, we'll be doing commentary this weekend. Still haven't decided on a commentary team yet.

I'll TOTALLY do it XD although if I don't then ill probably just go trade in borderlands at gamestop lol

I'd like to but since Ing thinks I know nothing about MM and am a complete troll I won't.

Commentary's done :3

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B9KFP4FN

Commentated version is now on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85k0fo1qnyo

Amazing job!

I watched this, and I'd like to say that the commentary was boring as fuck.

Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qye2LdwUBxI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qye2LdwUBxI)

Of course the commentary was boring as fuck; RingRush wasn't in it to make it entertaining D:

Great run. Sure there were some hiccups along the way but I'm glad to see it came together for you. It isn't the prettiest run at times but in the end it's the completion time that matters.

The commentary wasn't the best but it was still entertaining. The only parts I found myself a little bored with were the very beginning and end.

I'm working on a new route because of the new TAS by MrGrunz that came out recently. I've confirmed that it is still fastest for console to do 3 bomb shop trips (shit like triple staircase is the only reason TAS does 2), but thanks to the new BK skip for GBT I've been able to add 8 chus to the route. I've also moved the bomb shop trip for STT to before scaling the tower, which saves 1 SoS at the expense of having to get bomb drops from the Nejirons in STT (evens out to about 10 seconds saved). However, this does mean that the Stone Tower climb has to be put at the end of the run.

i think you should add in mikau walking cs skip considering its ease if you can make it to bottle duping in time, which i don't think is a problem
getting nuts from the tree by the GB fairy fountain is guaranteed if you roll into it, so those can be used for a faster garo master
if you can find a stick somewhere, a deku stick js on the last hit of majoras mask guarentees broken stick for the next 2 fights
sva's set-up for ISTT long jump is really easy so you have another few chus saved too

Mikau walking CS skip is completely luck based from my experience; it seems 100% random whether he gets up right away or not. Either way, I need to play zora pots for 90R since 3 bomb shop trips is still faster.

I thought about getting those nuts, but I never really thought about whether it was faster or not. I'll look into that.

There aren't any convenient deku sticks to grab after getting NWBN without losing massive time. The only way to save sticks for Majora is to get bremen mask and dupe over that, which is way slower than just not using broken deku stick.

The ISTT long jump actually doesn't save *any* chus (I use bomb hovers there) but it does save a few seconds and explosives, so I'll still be using it.

Updated the route; turns out that the 2 explosive BK skip is way slower in a SS (it'd need to be pause buffered since it's only a 2 frame window), so I put in the 5 explosive method instead (which I'm actually starting to get pretty good at ;D ). I also added in the hover to skip the pirate in PF. I timed it versus doing the pirate fight normally and skipping the pirate is optimally 15 seconds faster than fighting her, at the expense of 3 chus (which the 5 explosive method for GBT BK skip conveniently saves).

EDIT: We now skip adult wallet, which is about 25-30 seconds faster (depends on whether or not you get good luck with beamos in stone tower). It turns out that you actually CAN do woodfall BK skip without going through the swamp normally. Good shit.

gbt bk skip is fast, although if you pb it i can see where the problem lies. even still, shouldn't the chus saved save time somewhere else

also, bremen mask is not a 50 second detour, rather 30 sec http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfe5nPbpQUI
broken deku stick should be faster

btw, should create a separate route for if you can mover after pushing mikau.. that way you can cs skip with sodt, saving a good amount of time. and if you don't get it you would just use the normal one

Ok, I see where my problem was. 50 seconds is the time it takes to go from the clock town owl to the bomb shop with bremen mask, whereas it takes 15 seconds without. So bremen mask takes 35 seconds to get. Broken deku stick saves about 30 seconds on majora and 20 seconds in garo master, so yeah broken deku stick is about 15 seconds faster. Even so, the difficulty of setting up broken deku stick is probably not worth the 15 seconds it saves in a SS run.

Mikau cutscene skip is useless because I need to do zora pots, which you can't do at night.

The route is updated again to avoid needing beamos bomb drops in stone tower by avoiding buying bombs at the shop before bottle dupe and instead getting 2 drops in great bay. For those who didn't see my last edit, we now skip adult wallet, which is nearly a minute faster since it turns out you actually CAN get zora mask before bottle dupe and still have more than enough explosives for woodfall bk skip. For those curious as to how I derived the nearly 1 minute figure:

-Only one trip to bank in first cycle (10 seconds saved)
-No rupee from ECT (47 seconds saved)
-No getting adult wallet (16 seconds saved)
-2 chus replaced with bombs in wrong warp (6 seconds lost)
-2 extra bomb drops behind observatory (10 seconds lost, 5 for each drop)
Total: 57 seconds saved


I timed ALL of this either myself with a stopwatch or by using one of the runs that have been on SDA, so this should be accurate. Some times were rounded obviously, but for the most part it should be spot on. If anyone who isn't keeta wants to check these to see if I made a mistake somewhere (which it's possible I did), go right ahead.

i could easily time all of these accurately, which you should like considering all of your other timing errors, but since you don't want me to..

Since the new route ended up being too hard for a SS run, I put the old 1:49 route back in the first post and converted the new route into a segmented route, adding the new 2 explosive GBT BK skip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFeWnWLGfU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVFeWnWLGfU) 1:55:57 RTA (JP) by sva. He could beat ing's run imo, he made a lot of mistakes this run and still got a very good RTA time.

osnap competition

New route:

Majora's Mask Any% SS Route
Written by ingx24

First Cycle:
-Intro
-Get 1R from bush on way to clock town
-Grandma's story twice
-Dance with scarecrow
-Get 1R from pot
-Deposit 2R
-99R from inn
-Escape ECT
-Enter NCT
-Get magic
-Deposit 99R
-Song of Time

Second Cycle:
-Get deku mask
-99R from ECT
-Get adult wallet
-Withdraw 200R(200R)
-Buy 20B and 20C(20B)(20C)(70R)
-PAUSE: Ocarina, Chus, Bombs
-Exit WCT
-Chu superslide to Great Bay fence(19B)(19C)
-Hover over fence(18B)(18C)
-HESS to water(17B)(18C)
-Hit owl
-Get zora mask
-Superslide to Zora Cape(16B)(18C)
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Chus, Bombs
-Zora pots twice(200R)
-Hit Zora Cape owl
-Bomb drop from pot(20B)(18C)
-Flying Zora to fountain
-Blow up rocks(20B)(17C)
-Old school wrong warp with megaflips(17B)(8C)
-Superslide to Ikana owl(16B)(8C)
-Hit Ikana owl
-Get bomb drop(20B)(8C)
-Swim to swamp
-Refill hearts from grass
-HESS through woods of mystery(19B)(8C)
-Get bottle
-HESS as zora to bigocto(18B)(8C)
-To deku palace
-Zora clip past guards
-Chu hover to flower(18B)(7C)
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Deku Mask, Ocarina
-Put on Zora Mask then Deku Mask
-Flower strats to monkey
-Learn Sonata of Awakening
-SoDT to night
-Zora jump from lilly pad
-Learn Song of Soaring
-Enter Woodfall
-Open Temple
-Sticks + Nuts from pots
-Enter Woodfall Temple
-Flower skip
-Enter second room
-PAUSE: Deku nuts, Deku sticks, bombs
-Hover + megaflip to platform(15B)
-Deku stick Lizalfos for bow
-PAUSE: Zora mask, bombchus, bombs
-Drop bomb in main room to kill moths(14B)
-Zora clip behind pillar
-Boss key skip with megaflips(5B)(0C)
-Odolwa(4B)(0C)
-PAUSE: Bow, bottle, Ocarina (equip during fight and use bow on Odolwa)
-SoS to Clock Town (should be between 10:30 and 11:00)
-Buy 10B 20C(14B)(20C)(90R)
-To Curiosity Shop
-Talk to manager for bottle duping
-Dupe over Deku sticks, Deku nuts, Deku mask(150R)
-Sell red potion(170R)
-SoS to Great Bay
-PAUSE: 2 empty bottles, zora mask
-Pinnacle Rock
-Get 3 eggs
-To observatory
-Deposit 2 eggs
-PAUSE: Zora mask, zora egg, empty bottle
-Deposit last egg
-Bombs and magic behind observatory(19B)
-To Pirate's Fortress(should be around/before 3am when you leave observatory)
-Swim to big switch
-PAUSE: Bow, Zora Mask, Bombs
-3 hovers + megaflip to fortress(15B)
-Enter fortress (should be before 5am)
-Skip cutscene with bow
-Get hookshot
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, Empty bottle
-Get first 3 eggs with angled jumps and whatnot
-PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
-Pirate fight skip(11B)(17C)
-Hookshot to last egg
-PAUSE: Zora mask, empty bottle, ocarina
-Get last egg
-SoS to Zora Cape
-Deposit first egg
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, 2 zora eggs
-Deposit 2 eggs
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, egg, ocarina
-Deposit last egg
-Jump down for NWBN
-Cutscene skip + SoS to Ikana
-PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
-Bomb drop from plant(16B)
-HESS to stone tower(15B)
-Climb Stone tower with megaflips(6B)(11C)
-Hit Stone Tower owl
-Bomb drop from pot(11B)
-SoS to Zora Cape
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, ocarina
-Open GBT
-Bombs/Magic from pot(16B)
-Enter GBT
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, Bombs, Chus
-Boss key skip from first room(14B)
-PAUSE: Bow, hookshot, zora mask
-Gyorg
-Bomb/magic from pots(19B)
-To Fairy Fountain
-PAUSE: Zora Mask, chus, bombs
-Wrong Warp with zora long jump(15B)(7C)
-ISG outside cave and HESS off bomb(14B)
-Hover to ramp(13B)(6C)
-To temple (chu last boulder)(5C)
-Block skip
-PAUSE: Zora mask, hookshot, bombs
-Bomb drops from basement(18B)
-Scarecrow song skip
-Long jumps to wizrobe(16B)
-Fire arrows
-Hookshot to 3rd floor
-PAUSE: Bombs, chus, fire arrows
-Hover to 4th floor(15B)(1C)
-To boss door(13B)(0C)
-BK skip(12B)
-PAUSE: Bow, ocarina, bombs
-Goht with arrows (should be around/before 5am upon killing goht)
-Forge razor sword(70R)
-SoDT to day
-Get razor sword
-SoS to clock town
-Buy 20C(12B)(20C)(0R)
-SoS to Stone Tower
-Bomb drop from pot(17B)(20C)
-PAUSE: Bottle, ocarina, bombs
-Time stop gap
-Enter STT and SoDT at first door
-PAUSE: Zora mask, chus, bombs
-Hover first sun block(16B)(15C)
-Key
-Second sun block(15B)(10C)
-Updraft room with recoil flips(13B)(10C)
-Light arrows
-PAUSE: Ocarina, chus, bombs
-SoS to entrance
-PAUSE: Light arrows, chus, bombs
-Invert tower(11B)(9C)
-Hover to left wing of ISTT(8B)(9C)
-Boss key skip(use as many bombs/chus as needed except one bomb)
-PAUSE: Fire arrows, ocarina, bombs
-Twinmold
-SoS to Clock Town
-Enter clock tower
-Oath to Order
-Superslide to Majora
-PAUSE: Arrows, Zora Mask, bombs
-Majora
-Done

Some notes:
-Zora pots is done twice in order to have enough rupees in the long run to get razor sword.
-Lullaby skip at night is not unfeasible if you're able to HESS consistently. The HESS bypasses the white boes fast enough that they generally won't get in your way. The reason for hovering to the ramp instead of climbing it and getting ISG again is to avoid targeting white boes after climbing up.
-Broken deku stick is NOT an option. Assuming my memory is correct, broken deku stick only saves about 10 seconds over just using kokiri sword in a console run. Razor sword saves 20. In addition, even if broken deku stick was faster, using it on Incarnation would be way too hard for a single segment run since you can't use the bow or quickspin.
-IF FOR ANY REASON PEOPLE WANT TO SEE MY TIMINGS FOR RAZOR SWORD, I WILL POST THEM IN THIS TOPIC. I AM NOT GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE CLAIMING THAT I'M PULLING NUMBERS OUT OF MY ASS.
-I also timed Zora Edge, but it's a tiny bit slower than razor sword because you need to get deku sticks from the shop and it can't be used to quickspin Incarnation. Again, if anyone wants to see my timings, I will post them here.
-Yes, this route HAS BEEN TESTED AND VERIFIED TO WORK AND STILL BE FASTER.
-It is technically about 15-20 seconds faster to skip adult wallet instead of getting razor sword, but doing so would require doing the entire section up to Odolwa without wasting a single explosive, which obviously isn't feasible in a SS.

I will update the page on ZSR with the new route.

I'm curious to see all of the timings.

also make sure to account for using a fairy for GBT boss key skip

Any bets on keeta and ing filling the page with an argument about the route?
;D ;D ;D

Just kidding guys, I have huge respect for you both. Please don't take my jokes the wrong way.

I look forward to seeing a run, ING-X! I wish you a 1:45 or better!

Also, will you be streaming any attempts?

I don't stream speed run attempts anymore; it's just too distracting and makes me really nervous.

? Where's the timings man

I looked over the timings again and realized I miscounted SoDTs, so razor sword actually saves only 7 seconds :( Broken deku stick would be faster than razor sword, but it makes Majora way too hard for it to be feasible.

id still like to see whatever timings youve done, they may be useful

Extra zora pots: (1 zora pots: 31:57 to 32:09 = 12 seconds) vs (2 zora pots: 31:47 to 32:13 = 26 seconds) = 14 seconds lost
Getting razor sword: (1:19:55 to 1:21:15 = 1 minute 20 seconds) MINUS (Playing SoDT the second time: 1:20:22 to 1:20:42 = 20 seconds) = 1 minute lost

If zora edge is gotten:
Getting deku sticks: (1:31:20 to 1:31:37) = 17 seconds lost
Garo master: -(4 extra hits: 1:32:17 to 1:32:43) = 26 seconds gained
Majora's Mask: -(1 extra hit: 1:50:04 to 1:50:17) = 13 seconds gained
Majora's Incarnation: -(Killing off masks: 1:50:38 to 1:51:15) = 37 seconds gained
Majora's Wrath: -(27 extra hits: 1:52:40 to 1:53:03) = 23 seconds gained
Total gain/loss: 8 seconds gained (take away a couple because of pauses to equip sticks)

If razor sword is gotten:
Garo master: -(3 extra hits: 1:32:24 to 1:32:43) = 19 seconds gained
Majora's Incarnation: -(Killing off masks: 1:50:38 to 1:51:15 = 37 seconds) PLUS -(Extra hits on Incarnation: 1:51:58 to 1:52:05 = 7 seconds) = 44 seconds gained (NOTE: This is also approximately the average time lost compared to Jiano's 2:03 fight between my bad 1:49 fight and Jiano's good 1:53 fight; Jiano's 2:03 fight is 0:30 long, his 1:53 fight is 0:57 long, and my 1:49 fight is 1:27 long. 27 seconds lost + 47 seconds lost = 84 seconds lost, divide by 2 and you get 42 seconds which is close enough to 44 that 44 can be used)
Majora's Wrath: -(20 extra hits: 1:52:45 to 1:53:03) = 18 seconds gained
Total gain/loss: 7 seconds gained

These timings are obviously not 100% accurate down to the frame, but for a console run they should be good enough. If anyone WHO ISN'T KEETA wants to look them over to see if I made a mistake, then go right ahead, I don't claim to be perfect or anything.

lol

To explain a bit about the incarnation fight:

The timing of 37 seconds for the masks is from my 1:49, as is the 7 seconds figure for the extra hits on incarnation (totaling 44 seconds lost on Incarnation from not having razor sword). However, Jiano's 2:03 fight with razor sword is 30 seconds long - almost a minute faster than my 1:49 fight (which was 1:27 long) because I had pretty much the worst possible luck the entire time. Jiano's fight in his 1:53 was 57 seconds long (not counting the pause to equip bow), only 27 seconds slower than his 2:03 fight with razor sword. Therefore: I lost 57 seconds over Jiano's razor sword fight, and Jiano's 1:53 fight lost 27 seconds. Taking the average of 27 and 57 gives you 42 seconds lost - approximately the same as the 44 second figure from before.

I will do 2 incarnation fights of my own from the same savestate, one with razor and one without, to hopefully time this more accurately. You have to understand that incarnation is damn near impossble to time accurately because of how random he is.

I redid incarnation - the best time I could get on him with razor sword was 30 seconds, and the best I could get with kokiri sword was 57 seconds. So it looks like the optimal difference between the two is 27 seconds, meaning that razor sword is optimally 10 seconds slower =[

EDIT: Either way, it's still faster to skip adult wallet than to get razor sword. I did some testing and realized that skipping adult wallet was easier than I thought, so I can add it to the route. Again, I apologize for the errors with the razor sword - it wasn't so much me timing incorrectly as it was me not realizing that the awful luck I got in my 1:49 on incarnation is far from typical <_<

I updated the route on ZSR, and will post it here as well:

Majora's Mask Any% SS Route
Written by ingx24
Updated as of May 9, 2012

First cycle:
- Intro
- Grandma's story twice
- Dance with scarecrow
- 99R from inn
- Escape ECT
- Enter NCT
- Get magic
- Deposit 99R
- Song of Time

Second cycle:
- Get deku mask
- Withdraw 99R(99R)
- Buy 20B and 10C(20B)(10C)(19R)
- PAUSE: Ocarina, Chus, Bombs
- Exit WCT
- ISG + superslide to Great Bay fence(19B)(10C)
- Hover over fence(18B)(9C)
- HESS to water(17B)(9C)
- Hit owl
- Get zora mask
- Superslide to Zora Cape(16B)(9C)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Chus, Bombs
- Zora pots(99R)
- Hit Zora Cape owl
- Bomb drop from pot(20B)(9C)
- Flying Zora to fountain
- Blow up rocks(19B)(9C)
- Zora long jump wrong warp with megaflips(13B)(7C)
- Superslide to Ikana owl(12B)(7C)
- Hit Ikana owl
- Get bomb drop(17B)(7C)
- Superslide to Ikana Castle(16B)(7C)
- Enter and exit
- Superslide back and get bomb drop(20B)(7C)
- Swim to swamp
- Refill hearts from grass
- HESS through woods of mystery(19B)(7C)
- Get bottle
- HESS as zora to bigocto(18B)(7C)
- To deku palace
- Zora clip past guards
- Bomb hover to flower(17B)(7C)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Deku Mask, Ocarina
- Put on Zora Mask then Deku Mask
- Flower strats to monkey
- Learn Sonata of Awakening
- SoDT to night
- Zora jump from lilly pad
- Learn Song of Soaring
- Enter Woodfall
- Open Temple
- Sticks + Nuts from pots
- Enter Woodfall Temple
- Flower skip
- Enter second room
- PAUSE: Deku nuts, Deku sticks, bombs
- Hover + megaflip to platform(14B)
- Deku stick Lizalfos for bow
- PAUSE: Zora mask, bombchus, bombs
- Drop bomb in main room to kill moths(13B)
- Zora clip behind pillar
- Boss key skip with megaflips(4B)(0C)
- Odolwa(3B)(0C)
- PAUSE: Bow, bottle, Ocarina (equip during fight and use bow on Odolwa)
- SoS to Clock Town (should be between 10:30 and 11:00)
- Buy 20C(3B)(20C)(19R)
- To Curiosity Shop
- Talk to manager for bottle duping
- Dupe over Deku sticks, Deku nuts, Deku mask(79R)
- Sell red potion(99R)
- SoS to Great Bay
- PAUSE: 2 empty bottles, zora mask
- Pinnacle Rock
- Get 3 eggs
- To observatory
- Bomb drop behind observatory(8B)(20C)
- Deposit 2 eggs
- PAUSE: Zora mask, zora egg, empty bottle
- Deposit last egg
- Bombs and magic behind observatory(13B)
- To Pirate's Fortress(should be around/before 3am when you leave observatory)
- Swim to big switch
- PAUSE: Bow, Zora Mask, Bombs
- 3 hovers + megaflip to fortress(9B)
- Enter fortress (should be before 5am)
- Skip cutscene with bow
- Get hookshot
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, Empty bottle
- Get first 3 eggs with angled jumps and whatnot
- PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
- Pirate fight skip(4B)(17C)
- Hookshot to last egg
- PAUSE: Zora mask, empty bottle, ocarina
- Get last egg
- SoS to Great Bay
- Bomb drop behind observatory(9B)(17C)
- Deposit first egg
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, 2 zora eggs
- Deposit 2 eggs
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, egg, ocarina
- Deposit last egg
- Jump down for NWBN
- Cutscene skip + SoS to Ikana
- PAUSE: Hookshot, chus, bombs
- Bomb drop from plant(14B)
- HESS to stone tower(13B)
- Damage self off keese to 3/4 heart
- Climb Stone tower with megaflips(4B)(11C)
- Hit Stone Tower owl
- Drop bomb and take damage if not at 1/2 heart or less(3B)(11C)
- Bomb drop from pot(8B)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Real Bottle, Ocarina
- SoS to Zora Cape
- Open GBT
- Bombs/Magic from pot + catch fairy in real bottle(13B)
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Hookshot, Ocarina
- Enter GBT
- Play SoDT
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, Bombs, Chus
- Boss key skip from first room(11B)
- PAUSE: Bow, hookshot, zora mask
- Gyorg
- Bomb/magic from pots(16B)
- To Fairy Fountain
- PAUSE: Zora Mask, chus, bombs
- Old school wrong warp with megaflips(13B)(2C)
- ISG outside cave and HESS off bomb(12B)
- Get ISG on ramp(11B)
- To temple (chu last boulder)(1C)
- Block skip
- PAUSE: Zora mask, hookshot, bombs
- Bomb drops from basement(20B)
- Scarecrow song skip
- Long jumps to wizrobe(18B)
- Fire arrows
- Hookshot to 3rd floor
- PAUSE: Bombs, chus, fire arrows
- Hover to 4th floor(14B)(0C)
- To boss door(11B)(0C)
- BK skip(10B)
- PAUSE: Bow, ocarina, bombs
- Goht with arrows (should be around/before 5pm upon killing goht)
- SoS to clock town
- Buy 20C(10B)(20C)(0R)
- SoS to Stone Tower
- Bomb drop from pot(15B)(20C)
- PAUSE: Bottle, ocarina, bombs
- Time stop gap
- Enter STT and SoDT at first door
- PAUSE: Zora mask, chus, bombs
- Hover first sun block(14B)(15C)
- Key
- Second sun block(13B)(10C)
- Nejiron bomb drop(18B)(10C)
- Updraft room with recoil flips(16B)(10C)
- Light arrows
- PAUSE: Ocarina, chus, bombs
- SoS to entrance
- PAUSE: Light arrows, chus, bombs
- Invert tower(15B)(9C)
- Hover to left wing of ISTT(12B)(9C)
- Boss key skip(use as many bombs/chus as needed except one bomb)
- PAUSE: Fire arrows, ocarina, bombs
- Twinmold
- SoS to Clock Town
- Enter clock tower
- Oath to Order
- Superslide to Majora
- PAUSE: Arrows, Zora Mask, bombs
- Majora
- Done

You realize of course that now I hate you even more right? -_-
And yes I know I'm doing seg'd and you're doing single segment, doesn't change my hate.

lolumad

Putting the new route in the first post. All further changes to the route will be made in the first post and on the ZSR page.

pretty sure ing doesnt want my help, but in case someone does want to look at woodfall bk skip with hookshot to optimize it a bit more, this should help
EDIT: even better
(http://i.imgur.com/ztFsg.png)

the strategy is to angle change immediately after clip, then align hookshot to the right of the visible deku flower. Then it is just a straight line to the boss room (14 chu backflips).

(http://i.imgur.com/A1he8.png)

You can probably do one even better, but a straight line is surely faster and easier.

EDIT 2: here's a video http://youtu.be/FykHmc9prdI

New route. I tried to time this route versus the old one using mupen, but I ran into a lot of technical difficulties and it ended up being less accurate than just calculating out the differences anyway because of random variation. From what I can tell, the new route should be ABOUT 20 seconds faster than the route that I posted on ZSR a few days ago, and much easier. I'm pretty sure I've accounted for everything, but anything I may have missed should only make a few seconds' difference anyway.

If you're right, awesome job ing!

How much improvement is SVA's current WR over Ing's run excluding faster text? I do believe in this game as well time is saved by faster text considering the part talking and cutscenes take in any%:
And why doesn't SVA get spotted by the guards as he enters the hookshot room?

Japanese text: 1 character a frame
English: 2 characters a frame
Maybe like 20 seconds faster text over english

Japanese text saves 30 seconds. The other japanese version differences more or less cancel each other out.