OoT3D: 100% Segmented Discussion [NG+ Saw]

[r0bd0g]

Yes we should RI CS Skip water. It saves time on normal oot and there they have to damage down and then bk skip again to get the heart. Just use the scarecrow song/longshot to reach fire arrows (or maybe there's a HSJ to save a couple seconds, what do I know).

That's kinda what I figured it would be like for water. Fire's going to have a few differences, of course. The problem with the CS skip is that it ties up our FW when we'd rather be using it in the dungeon. I haven't routed it out yet so I'm not sure where the FW uses would be so IDK how much time that's gonna lose. Besides that we have to make a trip somewhere to set FW and then probably watch a cutscene anyway, though hopefully a much shorter one. I'll work it out later.

Anyway, as for which cutscene to watch for Deku if I were to CS skip DC, I tested using ZF->Fairy and it just takes you to the ZF Fairy. It wouldn't let me play ZL unless I left and reentered, so there's nothing with that. The only thing is the cutscene was only like 35 seconds, so it's possible that that's faster than walking to Jabu and watching a piece of the sun's song CS and then falling OoB. I think whether or not this is done depends on how long it takes to WWT escape. It is what, like 50 seconds from the time you leave Link's house until you escape? And there's no TSC escape after you get ZL? If this is about right... and the Goron Ruby CS is well over a minute long then... I think I should do the CS skip? I'm gonna put it in the route, I guess. Somebody should test if it works on 3DS at some point. I should have check if it refilled my magic... I'd be sooo good if I could warp to Lon Lon but I can't really see a way to do it.

So... where does hammer save time water? I'm not sure there's any place that longshot saves time in fire except maybe a second or two at that first climb wall. So should I head to fire next?

[benstephens1000]

If you have hoverboots and the hammer in water temple you can save probably about a minute because you don't have to do another silly tecktite dive. I suppose bombs would work, they'd just be more difficult to use.

[r0bd0g]

Since this is segmented, unless it's TAS-only hard, it's not the difficulty that matters. So really the hammer is saving like 2 seconds over bombs? How many such 2-second time savers are there? Because I can think of a couple with the longshot in Fire. I mean there are a few GS's you can pick up a bit faster, at least. Those spinning tile rooms...

Besides all that I think I'd rather Iron Boots dive than Spell Dive.

[benstephens1000]

Ah that's right, we should have the iron boots by then. However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of lowering the water.

[TheWayfaringFox]

Ah that's right, we should have the iron boots by then. However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of lowering the water.

Don't you mean raising?

I think Fire and Water are interchangeable. The items in these temples will not change too much of the route or lose time. It would vary from person to person.

[Norkix]

NG+ Route Child 1 WIP (5 segments completely tested)

My idea for seg 6 is to go back down Zora's River (there's a Skulltula near the ledge with the ladder, right? We'd get that), and go to KV. We'd RI Farore's Wind (for Nocturne FWWW in Deku) and save in BotW.

Seg 7 is BotW, then we S&Q after Lens.

Seg 8, we get Dampé HP and the GS on the wall, then the tower GS in KV and sidehop to roof HP, then S&Q.

Seg 9 is Deku Tree and WW to Nocturne, after which we S&Q. We could put BotW here instead as well, if you guys think that would work better.

Seg 10 is Lon Lon Ranch, Ocarina, Market, Din's Fire, and Master Sword.

What do you think?

[TheWayfaringFox]

Why are we adding so much for child one? I would like to add cutscene skips for Minuet, Bolero, Serenade and Prelude. We can move some stuff for child two. 

[Norkix]

Um... we can be thorough on Child 1 and still use cs skips, Fox... And why not be this thorough? I guess the boulder room and Deku grove GSs can be obtained later, but I really don't understand how flip-flopping through time is faster. This route gets a ton of things in a very well laid out path. Imo, the only reason regular OoT has so many Child sections is because they have a DoT skip that isn't ridiculous. When we go back in time for Child 2, I want to have warp songs so we can do the mask quest easily, polish off the remaining soil GSs quickly, and generally reduce overworld travel. Besides, I cut out quite a few things from Nook's original Seg'd route and saved them for Child 2, where they fit in along the mask quest.

I suppose things we can drop for now are Deku Grove GS, Boulder Room GS, Dampé HP, Graveyard wall GS, Tower GS, and Roof HP. These drops also streamline the route a bit, so I think they're good to save for later.

[benstephens1000]

I like the sound of that Kix (said it right that time) . Do you think you could start trying to pump this out on a pastabin to make it more accessible and easy to shift through? I know that's a lot to ask considering how massive the route is, but I think it would be highly appreciated by all here. Of course nothing is set in stone yet, and for some things I'm sure that it doesn't really matter when we get them really. So it wouldn't have to be perfect but it would be a nice thing to have

[Norkix]

Sure Ben, I'll get right on that. I'll have a complete Child 1 pastebin in less than an hour.

[benstephens1000]

You're the man Kix
Thanks a bundle!

[Norkix]

Sorry ben, it'll have to wait until tomorrow. The only computer available to me is an old shitty one that for some reason can't connect to the Internet. Also, I didn't sign into pastebin.com when I posted the WIP one, so I can't edit that on my 3DS. For now, just use the WIP pastebin that is already linked. I'll have a complete, edit enabled pastebin of the route tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.

However, this will also allow me to complete the testing tonight. Wish me luck on the FWWW, I really need it right now.

[Norkix]

CHILD 1 IS FINISHED!!!!!!!

Please give me some feedback on anything that should be switched around to make this faster. Please, only constructive criticism. If you don't like NG+ just ignore this post, because I don't care about what you have to say.

I'll start working on Adult 1 tomorrow (I have a four day weekend )

Also, when are you guys on #OoT3D? Every time I go on, there is no one there. Did CloudMax talk you guys out of using it? Or are all of you in Europe and are sleeping when I'm able to get on the IRC?

[r0bd0g]

"However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of [raising] the water."

In normal OoT this was done with a bomb. If it's impossible to do that without the hammer, then I guess we do have to get the hammer first, but... There's this one GS where it's like, if you don't have the longshot... ugh. You can't just walk forward and use the hookshot -- the tiles will get in your way. You can't just run up and grab the GS either because there's the Like Like right there and he WILL eat you unless you do something about him. If you don't lose 10 seconds I'd be surprised.

I think it's about time I checked if you skip the door of time opening CS by having the light arrow cutscene ready. I'm not sure if it'd save time if it did, but the CS is about 17 seconds so if I can get somewhere without losing 17 seconds, I might try it. It might be possible if I set at Colossus->Fairy and did Water and Spirit first... I'd need to time it to be sure and it doesn't matter if you can't use a bomb to do that trick in the water temple. But I mean, IDK if it works yet and if it doesn't I'm not sure it'd save time.

I routed the Fire Temple. It's weird. I do the CS skip and don't do the BK skip. Yeah IDK.

[TheWayfaringFox]

"However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of [raising] the water."

In normal OoT this was done with a bomb. If it's impossible to do that without the hammer, then I guess we do have to get the hammer first, but...

This can be done with a bomb. I'm personally am better at using a bomb rather than the hammer, honestly. I'm still not sure about which dungeon to do first.