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Author Topic: How long does it take to "learn"?  (Read 18545 times)
Stanemac12
Deku Scrub

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« on: June 05, 2011, 03:19:20 AM »

Hey all, I recently started trying to learn OoT for (casual) speed running purposes. I don't expect to ever be a competitive speed runner for this game as its unlikely I'll ever reach the level of skill and experience some of the veterans already have. I still had fun so far learning and trying to speed run the game casually though and pulling off the glitches is definitely entertaining.

I am however having a really bad time trying to learn some of these glitches though and its starting to discourage me from proceeding (seeing as how they are pretty much mandatory glitches). The main one I'm having difficulty with is the door of time skip, which is a pretty important skip for anyone wanting to speed run the game. Some of the glitches I started learning (like the deku mega side hop in deku tree) were pretty straight forward and I got it within about 10 minutes of trying. I still can't get it consistently but just getting results is a huge plus. The door of time skip though I have been trying for well over 2 hours now and I haven't even been able to clip through the door before I have to time the jump slash.

Possibly even worse for me is the epona skip as an adult by bomp jumping over the gate. I can't even manage to pull off the ISG with a bomb grab to start trying to flip. This one I'm a little more lenient on myself simply because I only have 20 bombs so I can only try 20 times before I have to reset/run back and whatnot. Its the same idea though, I have yet to even pull off the ISG. The idea that I will have attempt another new glitch (bomb jump/hover) AFTER pulling off a glitch I already can't do at all (let alone consistently) is quite discouraging.

I'm not really looking for any specific tips (as I've literally seen every tip/help video available), I just want some reassurance that it takes time. How long did it take you guys to get some of these glitches? Am I just expecting results without putting in enough work? I can live with not being very consistent after a solid 2 hours of work, but still having pulled off the glitch, but it is very frustrating to have tried for 2 hours and accomplished essentially nothing (since I have yet to even clip through the door, just rolling and jumping up against it).

Can anyone give some insight and advice for someone in my position? Perhaps with your own experience with such things? Sorry if this sounds a bit ranty. Just want to know if all speed runners start out with this much frustration or if it came easier to some or harder.
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mzxrules
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Ultimate Mega Guay

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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2011, 06:11:14 AM »

Getting ISG off of bombs should be incredibly easy to do, though getting the ISG to stick is a little bit tricky, since you have to dispose of the bomb before you get hit and kill the ISG.

DoT skip is pretty hard to figure out though. The key to it is to work on getting the clip down so that you can do it consistently, then add the Jump Attack in.
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aleckermit
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2011, 06:19:55 AM »

A real easy way to keep a bomb from taking away your ISG when it explodes is to: Get ISG, then hold Z and walk backward or forward until the bomb explodes. Once it blows up you'll take damage but you won't lose ISG.

The DoT Skip is hard for everyone trying to learn it the first time. I probably spent 3+ hours before I ever landed on the other side, but once you understand the trick it becomes pretty easy. Definitely get the clip consistant before even thinking about adding the jumpslash like MZX said.
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ZFG
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2011, 09:21:37 AM »

Ocarina of Time is a very hard game to learn and get good at.  Don't get discouraged if you can't get a trick after a while.  It took me almost 5 hours to get DoT skip my first time, and I had been playing OoT for a while then.  Once you get DoT skip the first time, you'll know exactly how to do it and every time after that will be very easy.  Keep trying and learning more stuff, the more you learn, the easier it will be to learn more.
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Toolex
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2011, 01:48:55 PM »

I found getting ISG off a bomb difficult at first but then i tried getting ISG off the 2nd slash rather than the first (when you have to take your sword out) this way you know the timing and so it becomes much easier

DoT skip learning time - to embarrassing to post... so dont worry Smiley
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Runnerguy2489
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 02:16:00 PM »

A lot of tricks do take time. My first DoT Skip took 4 hours and I also was quite familiar with a lot of other tricks in the game.

ISG is fairly simple though, even though it is 1 frame. I was able to explain ISG to someone who had never really glitched in the game and he hit it 3 times in a row after just a few attempts. Can you do ISG off a sign, and is it just the bomb timer that is messing you up?
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runnerguy your such a mother fucker. whats with all this bombchu shit? all everyone who likes this shit is stupid. ur a fucking cheater. u did that the wrong way, thats not how to get past the king zora u cheater. u suck and i wont continue watching all ur shit! videos.
Stanemac12
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 02:36:02 PM »

Thanks for all of the replies so far, I will get back on the horse when I'm home from work today.

I have pulled off ISG on a sign when I first was told how to do it from a friend, and at that time I was able to pull it off within maybe 5 attempts. So its just the bomb that seems to be messing with me. My TV also has some "reaction time" (small, only about a quarter of a second) from when I put in a command to when I see it on screen, which doesn't help for very timing specific tricks. I will try and use some of the tips given in here though and hopefully will be able to pull these off, thanks again.
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Majora MIM
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 06:36:17 PM »

I remember that my first DoT skip took me days!
In fact, the thing which took me ages was to figure out what I was doing wrong.
Do exactly what you see in youtube tutos.

The detail I was missing (and maybe it's the one you are missing too) is to hold left and let go of Z when you clip through the wall. I think this detail isn't clear enough in many tutos.

For all other tricks, you can try pause buffering to see how it looks like.
I think that the most important thing is to find your timing, playing oot is like playing percussions, you have to play the good rythm.
For exemple, I feel my ISG like: "B, short breath, A"

Try, to write the glitches on tuxguitar! ^^
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Runnerguy2489
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 06:42:24 PM »

The quarter of a second input lag may have something to do with it. Some people can play with it just fine, but I know at least for me it would throw me way off and I would notice it immediately if I switched to a set up that had it.
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Quote
runnerguy your such a mother fucker. whats with all this bombchu shit? all everyone who likes this shit is stupid. ur a fucking cheater. u did that the wrong way, thats not how to get past the king zora u cheater. u suck and i wont continue watching all ur shit! videos.
Lompta
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 10:38:25 PM »

I'm also a noob. I've been working on OoT (pretty casually, and alternating with MM) for a year or so, and my RTA time is still about 1:50. So, if I'm any indicator, it takes a long time! But it's a great feeling when you achieve a personal goal (sub 2 hours was for me).
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ElendilAndurilz
Deku Scrub

Posts: 2


« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 10:55:38 PM »

I've been practicing for about 2 weeks now, and surprisingly I haven't had too much prolonged difficulty with any of the any% glitches. If I spent more than 30-ish minutes trying to learn a particular trick, I would look up more information, and different peoples guides on that trick. It's amazing how you can combine different peoples methods together and figure out what works for you. Also, pause buffering is your friend. That was what really made the difference for me when I was learning the DoT skip.
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Lompta
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 12:34:05 AM »

If you're that quick a learner we should race sometime! I would like to start racing, but I'm not nearly good enough to keep up with the pros yet.
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BluRi
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2011, 02:49:02 AM »

If you're that quick a learner we should race sometime! I would like to start racing, but I'm not nearly good enough to keep up with the pros yet.

That is a genius idea. I would believe they're alot of peeps who want to race, but find it very difficult/or simply don't want to race with top tier players.

we need an amateur league.
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Toolex
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2011, 04:37:32 PM »

That is a genius idea. I would believe they're alot of peeps who want to race, but find it very difficult/or simply don't want to race with top tier players.

we need an amateur league.

This is a great idea Smiley
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qwerty1605
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2011, 04:54:33 PM »

I support this
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