OoT / MQ Trick Research & Discovery Thread

[darkeye14]

v1.1 did not change the Fire Temple music, did not have green blood, or any of that sort of thing. It only fixes a few glitches (Stealing the Rod with Hover Boots and Swordless Link with Save+Quit are the most well known, but they also fixed Elemental Protection and some other things) and also changes some text (Light Arrow quicktext was apparently removed, and that guy in Kakariko with the crazy formatting was restored to normal). The version differences page is exactly correct in this regard.

The "gibberish" you speak of is Arabic, and it was not made by a computer but rather a human being. It was NOT recorded specifically for OoT, since it appears in Cruis'n World two years prior. We have an entire thread about the chants here, which includes samples of it in various games and the lyrics to the chant.

The "chants" in v1.2 were made by a computer (or, more accurately, a synthesizer), and are also the exact same choral synths used in the Shadow Temple, which is why the version differences page says it's a "remix". The background percussion and other ambient parts of the Fire Temple track remained intact in v1.2

[Norkix]

v1.1 did not change the Fire Temple music, did not have green blood, or any of that sort of thing. It only fixes a few glitches (Stealing the Rod with Hover Boots and Swordless Link with Save+Quit are the most well known, but they also fixed Elemental Protection and some other things) and also changes some text (Light Arrow quicktext was apparently removed, and that guy in Kakariko with the crazy formatting was restored to normal). The version differences page is exactly correct in this regard.

The "gibberish" you speak of is Arabic, and it was not made by a computer but rather a human being. It was NOT recorded specifically for OoT, since it appears in Cruis'n World two years prior. We have an entire thread about the chants here, which includes samples of it in various games and the lyrics to the chant.

The "chants" in v1.2 were made by a computer (or, more accurately, a synthesizer), and are also the exact same choral synths used in the Shadow Temple, which is why the version differences page says it's a "remix". The background percussion and other ambient parts of the Fire Temple track remained intact in v1.2

First off, I knew about most of those differences from the page. Secondly, thank you for explaining the use of the term "Shadow Temple remix." Thirdly, I know that the language is Arabic. The reason I called it gibberish is because I couldn't place the lyrics to any of the chants, therefore I thought that Nintendo had synthesized a gibberish melody that sounded Islamic. Lastly, I listened to both songs extensively (I still have my original 1.2 cart), I didn't just say 'oh, I'm gonna complain about the Fire Temple with no actual proof.' I'm sorry for the misunderstanding; I didn't know that there was an entire page about the song and its lyrics. I'm still confused as to why there are 3 sayings on that page, but only two chants in the song, but hey. Watevs, bro. Peace.

[TBRX]

Hi Everyone!

Through my own trials and tribulations I've come across two discoveries while doing Child Dungeons and have found two methods that could be used to help people with specific areas. I'll apologize beforehand for the crappy videos due to my horrible upload speed when I stream.

First, I'll start with the most reliable method

I had a lot of trouble trying out the main megaflip strategies at the waterfall for some reason, and because of my own fooling around I found that this method I discovered works well for me and has room for a large margin of error. Its mostly just a new perspective on performing the megaflip with some visual cues so that the entire process can be buffered.

I have a new setup for the Waterfall Megaflip outside Zora's Domain. It's very easy to follow if you're used to doing normal megaflips. To set it up requires placement of backwalking down the specific spots as show in the videos, (basically, the peak of the tallest brown spot should be somewhere between Link's legs) then taking out a bombchu, and buffering to the normal black frame after the 7th flash. at that point you shield drop your chu, but do not roll. After shield dropping, wait until the bombchu begins to climb up the wall just a little bit, as seen in the video, then begin your roll. At this point you can either mash down and a to do the megaflip or pause buffer it like normal and you should get into the waterfall. There is a lot of room for margin of error, so if you drop the chu a few frames late, you just need to compensate for those frames. For example. If you're trying to pause buffer the frames and you skip over the black frame, continue to shield drop the chu like normal (as seen in the 2nd video), but roll EARLIER, IE, as soon as the chu starts climbing the wall, proceed like normal, and you should get it.

This can be done unbuffered if you have the reflexes.

1st Megaflip: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312098546

2nd Megaflip, better viewing angle: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312098806

Late-Buffer Megaflip Example: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312099507


The second discovery I've come across is that it is possible to backflip into the B1 Web of Deku Tree after doing the Baba Megasidehop. I don't know if this common knowledge or not but I have footage of being able to backflip into the web immediately after being knocked down. Basically, you don't have to grab the ledge to drop through. I still need more time to dissect this thoroughly but I think it's related to the angle and location you perform the Megasidehop from at the top of the tree, as the way I've done it positions me right above the web. I should note I am playing on Virtual Console, if that may have anything to do with it.

Demonstration 1 (Warning, might want to mute speakers, I get a little too excited lol): http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312100570

Demonstration 2: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312101678

Please let me know if I can update any more relevant information to these methods.

If these methods are accepted, I will make  higher quality videos on emulator to be posted to the website, please give me some feedback for my discoveries, thanks!

[Link98]

Hi Everyone!

Through my own trials and tribulations I've come across two discoveries while doing Child Dungeons and have found two methods that could be used to help people with specific areas. I'll apologize beforehand for the crappy videos due to my horrible upload speed when I stream.

First, I'll start with the most reliable method

I had a lot of trouble trying out the main megaflip strategies at the waterfall for some reason, and because of my own fooling around I found that this method I discovered works well for me and has room for a large margin of error. Its mostly just a new perspective on performing the megaflip with some visual cues so that the entire process can be buffered.

I have a new setup for the Waterfall Megaflip outside Zora's Domain. It's very easy to follow if you're used to doing normal megaflips. To set it up requires placement of backwalking down the specific spots as show in the videos, (basically, the peak of the tallest brown spot should be somewhere between Link's legs) then taking out a bombchu, and buffering to the normal black frame after the 7th flash. at that point you shield drop your chu, but do not roll. After shield dropping, wait until the bombchu begins to climb up the wall just a little bit, as seen in the video, then begin your roll. At this point you can either mash down and a to do the megaflip or pause buffer it like normal and you should get into the waterfall. There is a lot of room for margin of error, so if you drop the chu a few frames late, you just need to compensate for those frames. For example. If you're trying to pause buffer the frames and you skip over the black frame, continue to shield drop the chu like normal (as seen in the 2nd video), but roll EARLIER, IE, as soon as the chu starts climbing the wall, proceed like normal, and you should get it.

This can be done unbuffered if you have the reflexes.

1st Megaflip: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312098546

2nd Megaflip, better viewing angle: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312098806

Late-Buffer Megaflip Example: http://www.twitch.tv/tbrx/b/312099507

What I think is most significant is the ability to still buffer the megaflip if you miss the black frame (looking at the 3rd vid there). I reckon that's probably one of the most commonly wasted chus in CD so you've potentially saved people from a lot of excessive resetting (or biri hovering). If you could get a proper quality video showing what it looks like if you hit the 8th red flash for example (a frame late) then I, and I'm sure others, would find that very valuable.

As for the first two videos, from what I can tell, it's still done in two pauses minimum (shield drop + roll) so that's the same as the current standard. You've essentially taken the unbuffered timing (shield drop *wait a second* then roll) and turned it into a buffer, which is perfectly fine - "whatever works for you" is what I always say!

The Deku B1 Megasidehop backflip doesn't surprise me, although I didn't know for certain it was possible. Is there any element of timing the backflip or can you consistently backflip as soon as you land and make it through the web? Depending on how lenient it is with the initial angle of the megasidehop it could be one of those cool little 1 second time savers - it would be interesting to hear back how it goes.

[TBRX]

What I think is most significant is the ability to still buffer the megaflip if you miss the black frame (looking at the 3rd vid there). I reckon that's probably one of the most commonly wasted chus in CD so you've potentially saved people from a lot of excessive resetting (or biri hovering). If you could get a proper quality video showing what it looks like if you hit the 8th red flash for example (a frame late) then I, and I'm sure others, would find that very valuable.

As for the first two videos, from what I can tell, it's still done in two pauses minimum (shield drop + roll) so that's the same as the current standard. You've essentially taken the unbuffered timing (shield drop *wait a second* then roll) and turned it into a buffer, which is perfectly fine - "whatever works for you" is what I always say!

The Deku B1 Megasidehop backflip doesn't surprise me, although I didn't know for certain it was possible. Is there any element of timing the backflip or can you consistently backflip as soon as you land and make it through the web? Depending on how lenient it is with the initial angle of the megasidehop it could be one of those cool little 1 second time savers - it would be interesting to hear back how it goes.

Okay got an HQ video and explain how to pull off the megaflip on a late chu shield drop

http://youtu.be/pw2d3jpi2Ok

I will investigate into the web backflip sometime soon

Edit: an update

I've pretty much figured out how to consistently do the backflip clip. Basically, when you do the Baba Megasidehop, you want to be as far left to the Deku Baba as possible when you perform the Megasidehop. Once you do that, keep pressing Down + A until you either clip through the web, or fail. In the 3rd try you can see how I can fail to clip in the video, but note my positioning when I perform the Megasidehop, it's not as far left as I can possibly be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o4L8Tgj0lE

Edit: Again,

I have a full setup for this trick now as well as a video. Setup is in video description.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAl3Vj8J04M

[Link98]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxrISvOcE3c

"Megaspin". Not serious, but quite fun for those who've never seen it before.

[Kimimaru]

Link normally does that if you hold B down longer, like for the magic "green-sword" Spin Attack. Even if you don't have magic, he'll still do it.

[Link98]

Yea further testing revealed that to be the case. This set up is quicker though for those time critical moments.

[Koobes]

I posted this in #zelda, but putting it in the tread incase some people haven't seen it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62tJSb4RI1o&

Recoil from Megaton hammer to skip Fire temple bk

[DekuScrub]

I found a (hopefully!) new OoB spot in Gerudo Valley yesterday evening, over by the shallow pool w/ the log bridge going over it. You have to get on the rock-stump thing under the bridge that holds it up, on the left side of the bridge coming from Hyrule Field. You have to find a spot where when facing at a 45 degree angle to the log (about there, at least) and facing the Hyrule Field exit, either Sidehopping or Backflipping (after turning around to face away from it) towards the log will be canceled immediately because the log is in the way. From there you need to pull out your sword and JS. Link will either clip through the log and end up on the top (and usually promptly fall off), (this was possibility was added as an edit -> ) have something else happen (no clipping), or clip through both the ground and the log and fall into OoB water. Once you are in, some actions may or may not lock the camera.

I hope this is new, and maybe have some usefulness or something. (I was going to mention walking while talking, but that could be activated from just a water death)
I will post an .m64 once I sign up to a file sharing service, as AVI recording doesn't work for me, and I still need a youtube account anyways. (or someone else could post a video of it on youtube if they want)

EDIT: Well, I promised an .m64, but although I am unable to give that, I can now give a YouTube video, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhyCZU6Dcc

[DekuScrub]

This is sort of double posting, but it has been a few days already, and this has nothing to do with the post above.

I don't know if weird slides can go forward and still result in this, but I thought I'd post this. If only I was recording...

[sockfolder]

I made a compilation video of setups for death cutscene skips in all the temples for young Link. They are similar to previous setups, except the forest temple one which I think is an improved strategy over previous setups. You may notice the video is on youtube. Sadly I cannot edit together twitch highlights so I had to do this. Sadly, the flv files XSplit outputs are difficult to edit, or at least, the editor I used was trashy. If you have suggestions in this regard, please tell me so I can redo this one.
I'll make a similar video for adult Link in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCUdcBnLE5Y

[Samura1man]

Shadow boat room skulltula as child with boomerang

[mzxrules]

I figured out a way to trigger the "mysterious" Hyrule glitch via cheats. 801CA0CC in v1.0 stores what I believe to be the actor count. If you manually set this value to be ~ 0xCF, new actors stop loading completely. When walking around the "forest" near the southern end of Hyrule I'm able to push this number up to the mid 0xA0s as a child, but not quite enough to be able to activate the glitch. To me this suggests that there must be some glitch that causes the actor count to increase when a certain actor is loaded, but not decrease when said actor does not unload.

Edit: I think I know why Jabu Jabu as an Adult doesn't work without hovering underneath the ice. I believe that Nintendo coded this exit so that the game checks to see if Link is walking over a particular polygon before letting you pass rather than try and create some crazy hitbox. When you set the actor count to it's maximum value the ice block is not loaded, and the exit trigger extends a hell of a lot higher up as both an adult and child link.

[sockfolder]

I found a method to do the fire temple death cs skip without pausebuffering. Basically you memorize a bunch of frames to determine when you are sidehopping, and then compensate for any errors after you land. I did this for both adult and child.
Child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz8L2Q3DPN8
Adult: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsMLkqjUEa8

People still need to test this on the consoles to see if the frames appear different as some people have reported. However, this may be caused by people not holding Z while dying.

Also, with the power of Nemu64 debugging, I actually looked at some stuff in the code to resolve some mysteries.
First, bushes have a table of 16 slots that determine what they drop. They have a 'special' item drop in their table that is converted based on what the game thinks Link needs. It is processed in this order:
1. If HP <=1, drop a fairy.
2. If HP <= 3, drop 3 hearts.
3. If HP <= 5, drop 1 heart.
4. If Magic Bar is empty, drop magic.
5. If Child?? and Deku Seed Count <= 5, drop deku seeds.
6. If Arrow Count <= 5, drop arrows.
7. If Bomb Count <= 5, drop bombs.

It checks arrow count even if you don't have a bow, in which case nothing will drop (arrows are converted to nothing).

Next, the weird bomb bag (20) thing works as follows. When you already have a bomb bag, it uses the default item handler which put the item on a slot and increases the quantity by 1. The quantity type gets set correctly before the bomb bag slot is checked, so it works fine. The game has a table it uses to lookup the slot an item corresponds to, but it only has values through the trade items. When the table is accessed for the bomb bag (20), the game pulls a value from a list of pointers, namely 8 (this is actually always done, even if you don't have the bomb bag). Then the game thinks the bomb bag goes on that slot so it overwrites chus.

The golden scale was difficult to follow, so I'm less sure on this. However, it seems to be that hold z in water sets a flag (which normally corresponds to Link being in air iirc). The flag causes the game to think you are busy when you are receiving the prize, which causes data to become outdated or something, so you get golden scale as a default.