GIM in MST

[Sveet]

First off, who cares what someone outside the community thinks? They would be the least informed about the topic.


I agree that they are in the same category of glitches, but RBA is not equivalent to GIM. They are different.

The goals for MST according to ZSR Leaderboards are:

Obtain all spiritual stones
Obtain all medallions
Dispel the barrier on Ganon's Castle
Complete the game ("The End")


RBA must be banned because it directly gives medallions without doing the dungeons, which breaks the category. Light arrows are not a goal item, they are a means to an end. If a method to dispel the barrier without Light Arrows was found, it would not be banned because Light arrows aren't a goal.

[Apasher]

Criticism from people outside of the community is important. Since their views aren't as biased, they give input that would potentially help a community from being trapped in a mindset of traditional means. (Plus since OoT is one of the most popular games for speedrunning, there are some outsiders who are familiar with it, and have heard of the discovery of the new glitch.) This is why a lot of people wanted to re-define the 100% category to have a more clear and stable definition without having to continuously ban item-giving glitches when a new one gets discovered... because the community realized (after hearing from outsiders) why sticking with a definition made in 2006 wasn't the best decision and why banning glitches is a lazy way to define a category that is based on a goal.

Also... one could argue that it doesn't make sense to allow one and ban the other for the item-giving glitches, but have an all-or-nothing approach for the categories that ban wrong warp, since void warp is banned for those categories as well despite the glitch being inequivalent.

[Jbop]

RBA must be banned because it directly gives medallions without doing the dungeons, which breaks the category. Light arrows are not a goal item, they are a means to an end. If a method to dispel the barrier without Light Arrows was found, it would not be banned because Light arrows aren't a goal.

You seem to be forgetting that All Dungeons exists. We can RBA the medallions and stones in that category if we so choose, but we still have to activate the blue warp at the end of the dungeon.

Given that we already have All Dungeons and MSB, I think most people already view MST as MST "no IM".

[Sveet]

@Apasher: I don't think it takes an outsider to be unbiased. It just takes critical thinking about whether the decisions are based on objectivity or subjectivity. It is good to hear all points of view, I agree, but I would argue that the more informed you are the better your opinion will be.


@Jbop: Originally I had just assumed (not the best thing to do...) the goal of All Dungeons was along the lines of "Complete all Dungeons that have a blue warp". My assumption isn't far off base, but I was surprised to see it is defined with collecting the stones and medallions as well.

For some reason after reading the definition that way, I am compelled to agree with you guys about having GIM banned in MST. The difference between MST and AD isn't really the goals, but the tricks allowed to be used to accomplish the goals. When I think about it from that perspective it is clearer to me. Sorry for causing such a ruckus

[ING-X]

I also don't think that a "no large-skip glitches" category like MST should be using glitches that don't work on the original hardware, in case another reason needed to be given besides the fact that GIM is an item-manipulation glitch like RBA.