100%

[Rdy]

I think the Great Spin would potentially save time on Helmasaur, if not for the fact that there's a Maiamai inside the maze that ideally you would get after defeating Helmasaur because you skip most of the maze anyway..

Skull Woods is a definite possibility - I've already tested coming back with the Tempered Sword and it breaks about even on time, so coming back with the Gold Sword would probably end up saving time. The only thing is that ideally a Scoot Fruit would be routed in so you can get out quicker after getting the Big Key.

Desert Palace is a possibility - you get the Titan Mitts before you get the mid-way warp, making it a relatively low loss to leave the dungeon and come back later. I don't think you could kill the Desert Palace boss that much faster with Great Spin, though, so I don't personally think it'd be worth it. (He doesn't have extended periods of invincibility like the Skull Woods boss or Helmasaur.)

Swamp Palace and Ice Ruins wouldn't benefit much from better sword damage because most of the time is spent using items to deal with a particular phase of the boss. Turtle Rock I think would be the best possibility since all it would require is another warp to that Weather Vane. There's no need to go into the dungeon at all.

[thepuff273]

Do you need the original bug catching net to get the upgraded one from the tower?
Also, would it be fast to do Thieve's Town (get master ore) and then get the Sanctuary master ore, then do sand temple to get the Titan Mitts fairly early for any maiamais? With this you'd also have the tempered sword for skull woods and wouldn't have to scoot fruit out halfway and backtrack.

[zT DeFuZeD]

It would have to be tested for every boss, using each sword level. But it would save time for some for sure. I know for a fact on the ice ruins boss. I beat him pretty quick with great spin, only two cycles. First cycle one great spin made him critical, second cycle one great spin and two quick slashes killed him. I believe swamp palace boss is killed in only two great spins once he is hopping around. Butter blade on skull woods makes it a three cycle fight. First to make him angry and purplish, and then two attack phases after that(i did this with butter blade, but no great spin). Great spin or not, butter blade definately saves time on boss fights in every way.

[zT DeFuZeD]

Do you need the original bug catching net to get the upgraded one from the tower?
Also, would it be fast to do Thieve's Town (get master ore) and then get the Sanctuary master ore, then do sand temple to get the Titan Mitts fairly early for any maiamais? With this you'd also have the tempered sword for skull woods and wouldn't have to scoot fruit out halfway and backtrack.

You cannot get Lorule Sanctuary Ore until you have Titan's Mitt from Desert Palace

[thepuff273]

You cannot get Lorule Sanctuary Ore until you have Titan's Mitt from Desert Palace

Then would getting Titan's Mitts, leaving, getting Sanctuary ore, then finishing sand and then going to Skull Woods be faster than leaving SW? Or is the Master ore less far through that dungeon than the Titan's Mitts are in Sand Palace?
Also would getting Titan's Mitts this early help save time collecting the Maiamais?

[Rdy]

Then would getting Titan's Mitts, leaving, getting Sanctuary ore, then finishing sand and then going to Skull Woods be faster than leaving SW? Or is the Master ore less far through that dungeon than the Titan's Mitts are in Sand Palace?
Also would getting Titan's Mitts this early help save time collecting the Maiamais?

Not an explicitly large amount of time. The biggest thing about Titan's Mitts is to get it before Dark Palace, really. There's a few Maiamai in Hyrule you need the Titan's Mitts for, and in a few of those spaces there's a nearby Portal with another Maiamai you need Titan's Mitts for, so you really end up passing most of the Maiamai under large rocks just on the way to the Desert Palace anyway.

Doing the Desert Palace halfway is a very solid possibility, though, just given where the warp pads are located. It's only slightly out of the way in the entrance, but not only is the warp pad located near the outside where you could use Irene's Bell, it's also after Titan's Mitts and placed pretty much perfectly for that purpose. Desert Palace is probably the best dungeon to do halfway then finish later.

It would have to be tested for every boss, using each sword level. But it would save time for some for sure. I know for a fact on the ice ruins boss. I beat him pretty quick with great spin, only two cycles. First cycle one great spin made him critical, second cycle one great spin and two quick slashes killed him. I believe swamp palace boss is killed in only two great spins once he is hopping around. Butter blade on skull woods makes it a three cycle fight. First to make him angry and purplish, and then two attack phases after that(i did this with butter blade, but no great spin). Great spin or not, butter blade definately saves time on boss fights in every way.

The Ice Ruins boss is already three cycles without Great Spin, using both the Tempered Sword and the Butter Sword, and the mid-way portal of the dungeon is still kind of out of the way. We want to go in there to have the Scroll for Turtle Rock, and really, an additional cycle isn't extremely slow for that boss as compared to others. It might be a time-saver, but I think it would be kind of minimal, honestly. I'll try testing it out tomorrow morning, though.

The Swamp Palace boss doesn't really waste that much time when you've got him hopping around, plus you can use the Ice Rod to freeze him anyway. In ZFG's route, the Swamp Palace is the last dungeon, though, so it could very easily be possible to just get Great Spin before even going in the dungeon without losing much time.

The Skull Woods boss is likely, because in my timings it comes up roughly even to get the Master Ore and Big Key and come back later.

Do you need the original bug catching net to get the upgraded one from the tower?

Yes. Plus, chances are likely you'll need at least one fairy for the Tower without Blue Mail.

[zT DeFuZeD]

Yes. Plus, chances are likely you'll need at least one fairy for the Tower without Blue Mail.

Not anymore. Treacherous tower is super easy now, upgraded firerod and tornado rod are all that you need, except for one floor where the ice rod really helps, but with those two, all you may need is one red potion for final moldorm, maybe two if unlucky. Im almost at sub 6 minutes for treacherous tower and I keep getting closer.

Should we make a floor by floor guide for treacherous tower? to help for the 100% runs, cause I foresee the Treacherous Tower being a potential run killer, and since it comes late in a run, it would be really frustrating to mess up here. I got over half the floors memorized, so making a floor by floor guide would be easy. Respond if you want it, and ill make a new thread about it

[thepuff273]

Should we make a floor by floor guide for treacherous tower? to help for the 100% runs, cause I foresee the Treacherous Tower being a potential run killer, and since it comes late in a run, it would be really frustrating to mess up here. I got over half the floors memorized, so making a floor by floor guide would be easy. Respond if you want it, and ill make a new thread about it

A guide would be helpful. There are certain rooms that could pose issues without a solid strategy for them.

[zT DeFuZeD]

Alright, unless someone else makes one first, Ill make a new topic about the treacherous tower and my strats to beat it quick floor by floor. should have it done by tomorrow

[mzxrules]

Would be nice if the guide was on ZeldaSpeedRuns

[zT DeFuZeD]

Would be nice if the guide was on ZeldaSpeedRuns

Yes it will be, at least the guide will be my own opinion open to criticism of course, but I will make it a new topic in the Link Between Worlds Forum

[RheaultWnage]

I haven't seen it discussed here so I'll ask it: Should a 100% run have one of each fruit (Scoot and Foul) left unused in your inventory when you defeat Yuganon? I've been thinking you should have those, since they appear on the Items Menu. You can hold one of each at a time, so if a route plans to be using a Scoot Fruit to exit a dungeon, then another stop would have to be planned to rebuy the Scoot Fruit.

Also, kind of related, I've seen some talk (not sure if it's still the case) about completing the Skull Woods dungeon in 2 visits, first getting all the way to the Big Key, Scoot out, and coming back with a better sword to grab the green portal and take out the boss. If that were to be implemented in the route, along with having a spare of each fruit at the end of the game being mandatory, then maybe going through the Big Key room a second time (after grabbing the key) and using the south exit would be better than using a Scoot. That exit leads you out in the Woods, and let's you use Irene to Warp away. It might just be faster than having to go and buy another Scoot Fruit, plus would save the money.

[zT DeFuZeD]

I would agree that 100% should end with all item slots filled. Only thing that doesnt need to be filled are the bottles. they can be empty, for they only need to be collected.

[thepuff273]

It might just be faster than having to go and buy another Scoot Fruit, plus would save the money.

You can only have 1 Scoot Fruit at a time, and a Scoot Fruit is definitely a fast way to do the Desert Palace. So you'd need another one regardless.

I would agree that 100% should end with all item slots filled. Only thing that doesnt need to be filled are the bottles. they can be empty, for they only need to be collected.

I disagree in this case. It would be different were the items something other than 1 time use. It's not like you need to make one of each potion during the run.

[RheaultWnage]

I would agree that 100% should end with all item slots filled. Only thing that doesnt need to be filled are the bottles. they can be empty, for they only need to be collected.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. The only thing to add to that would be the Milk quest, that you would need to complete in order to have a fifth usable bottle

You can only have 1 Scoot Fruit at a time, and a Scoot Fruit is definitely a fast way to do the Desert Palace. So you'd need another one regardless.

Yes I know you can only have one of each (one Scoot, one Foul) at a time. What I meant is about Skull Woods is that, using the south exit of the boss key room instead of a scoot fruit MIGHT be faster, because in the end it saves one trip to the shop for a new Scoot Fruit, regardless of if you actually use a Scoot in another dungeon or not.

I disagree in this case. It would be different were the items something other than 1 time use. It's not like you need to make one of each potion during the run.

Yes but that is actually different. Potions/Bees/Fairies don't have their own spot in the Items Menu, they just fill up a Bottle. The two fruits, however, do have their own spot in that menu. So, by having one of each during the Yuganon fight, you end up with a full inventory when Zelda gives you the Light Bow. The fact that it disappears from the menu after you use it (unlike remaining there with a pale "0" written on it, like the Deku Sticks in OOT and stuff) make me think we should require the player to have one Scoot and one Foul in hand during the Yaganon fight.