Questions regarding FF1 Guards, Greatfish early, and Lists of storage spots

[Hatefiend]

New runner here. Sorry if anything asked in this thread is common knowledge.

Regarding Forsaken Fortress on the first visit, there seem to be three main tricks that stand out to me (all of which give me problems): Jump from ramp into window to enter second floor, double guard skip, and the final guard skip. The jump, which seems to me to be the easiest of the three, requires Link to be facing slightly towards the wall on his left? In fact, I'm not even sure if that matters; the roll timing always seems to be the piece (at least for me) that makes or breaks the jump. It's infuriating as hell to miss, because then you have to roll back up, then the spotlights are off sync, etc. The guard skips are the specific ones I want to talk about here. I've probably practiced the guard skips 200 times today. I'm getting around a 50% success rate even though I'm doing the exact same thing everytime. I roll once to the barrel, pick it up, immediately while Link is doing the animation for picking it up I mash the A button until he does the animation to put it down. I roll straight and stay as far as I can away from the first guard and run around the corner. The straightaway I roll directly to the railing of the stairs and I round the corner running, not rolling. The problem is, sometimes the guard is like twice as fast in his animations. Sometimes he will be half turning around before I'm even at the post of the stairs. Othertimes, he'll be sniffing the ground still; it makes no sense how streamers never have their runs die here. The last guard also makes no sense. I race to the barrel as quick as possible, put the barrel on, walk forward for 2-3 seconds, drop the barrel, and he catches me as I turn the corner. Should I hug the wall as I'm approaching the corner? Should I just straight shoot it to the corner? It's so ridiculous to get caught on him because then you have to repeat the two gaurd coinflip in the previous room, not to mention the 60 second walk.




In the Greatfish early route, you perform the Wind's requiem cutscene skip, walk back to the boulder and get storage (should I put the wind south now, after I reach Greatfish?), walk out to the area near the rock skip, pull out Windwaker and sidehop into the water, superswim to Northern Triangle island, put Din's Pearl on the pedestal, etc. Here is the point that gives me trouble. It takes me at least 80-90 tries to get storage on this bush to the left of the pedestal. It's outrageously hard. The boulder I can get in 2-8 tries. It's such a short fall distance that I fall with the windwaker and press B too late. After practicing it for a few hours, I don't know whether to call it hard or not, because I don't even know if I'm doing the technique right. I know I have to press B right before Link touches the ground, but the period of time between Link beginning to slip from the ledge to when Link hits the ground seems to be too little time for the game to register that I want to cancel the Windwaker. Once I do get storage, I walk to my left (assuming I am facing the bush) and go to the very tip of the island and wait for the water to flow out so I can jump from the tip of the island. I sidehop off the island, but hold up on my control stick. Almost 90% of the time, I hit the island and splash back. Then, if I try again, I will have an 100% chance of hitting the island again and splash, and repeat. My occilation pattern puts Link directly in the path of the island, and so I splash when I get too close. So what I always do is, jump in the water, hold up for half a second, release, and pray that I am facing out to sea. If the coin flip landed in my favor, I am slightly farther away from the island and now safer to begin charging up my superswim. Keep in mind that I wasted 8% or so of my breath doing that, which is pretty annoying. So I charge my superswim up, I have no minimap so I can't even see if I am occilating at a 180 degrees. At 1/3 breath, I release and Link flies towards the island at around 15 degrees off sync. What I mean by that is I can never get it perfect (since I'm at the mercy of luck when I press up on my directional pad to see what direction I'm facing while in the sea chart menu), and I have to correct it mid-swim. I lose a lot of speed doing that so I try and wait till the final stretch to do that. I curve from the left and aim for that beach in the middle of the island, but about 2 seconds before I arrive, I splash and the boat comes to me and I softlock. I assume this means that I was too slow getting to the beach and I didn't have enough speed. Welp, to attempt that again, I have to get storage from the boulder, swim to Northern triangle island, get storage off of the RNG bush, and attempt the hardest superswim I've ever encountered. X_X




Finally, I'd like to ask, there have been times when I've superswam to the wrong island (either on accident or because not enough speed made me make a pit stop). I'd love to get storage on these islands, but unfortunately I don't know of all the spots to get storage from. But attempting a search query like "Tingle Island storage spot" doesn't yield anything useful. Isn't there some kind of giant PDF of every known storage spot in the game? It seems like that would be the first thing someone would make once Dry storage was discovered. Please let me know if something like that exists.




Bonus question: On Bird's Peak rock, I use the Grappling Hook to attempt to skip the gate, and on Links swing back, he bounces off of the rocks wall instead of clipping through the way he came. I'm hugging the left side of the wall, and I'm only a few steps away from the edge towards where water would be. I'm aiming inside of the rock with my grappling hook as expected. Not really sure why it doesn't let me clip.



Thanks guys!

[wooferzfg1]

I'm getting around a 50% success rate even though I'm doing the exact same thing everytime. I roll once to the barrel, pick it up, immediately while Link is doing the animation for picking it up I mash the A button until he does the animation to put it down. I roll straight and stay as far as I can away from the first guard and run around the corner. The straightaway I roll directly to the railing of the stairs and I round the corner running, not rolling. The problem is, sometimes the guard is like twice as fast in his animations. Sometimes he will be half turning around before I'm even at the post of the stairs. Othertimes, he'll be sniffing the ground still; it makes no sense how streamers never have their runs die here.

The guard is RNG. Sometimes he won't sniff, sometimes he'll sniff twice, sometimes once. The key to not getting caught is to roll close to the edge of the stairs once you roll past him so that if he notice you,he won't be able to catch you since you're hiding behind the edge of the stairs. The last guard is RNG also, and it just takes practice to get it right. Sometimes the RNG is bad enough that it's impossible to make it past him.

It takes me at least 80-90 tries to get storage on this bush to the left of the pedestal. It's outrageously hard. The boulder I can get in 2-8 tries. It's such a short fall distance that I fall with the windwaker and press B too late.

This kind of goes hand in hand with what you mentioned later in your post, which is the question, "where can I get storage?" The easiest way to know if a ledge can work as a storage spot is to climb up and then just pull out the Wind Waker. If Link turns around, you can get storage there. The key with this bush is that it's a second kind of storage spot, where Link doesn't turn around but instead gets pushed off a ledge (similar to the storage at Bird's Peak Rock). The good thing is that to the left of the bush on the Triangle islands is a ledge that makes Link turn around when you climb up, and climbing up almost anywhere on the ledge gives you a spot to get storage.

So what I always do is, jump in the water, hold up for half a second, release, and pray that I am facing out to sea. If the coin flip landed in my favor, I am slightly farther away from the island and now safer to begin charging up my superswim. Keep in mind that I wasted 8% or so of my breath doing that, which is pretty annoying. So I charge my superswim up, I have no minimap so I can't even see if I am occilating at a 180 degrees.

The first thing to know about superswims is that when the camera is locked, it does not directly face Link. Instead, the camera faces Link from a slight angle. So in order to "control" a superswim, you have to hold the control stick slightly up-left or up-right depending on the camera, not directly up. This will give you more control over whether or not you sploosh. After you get a hang of it, superswimming should be a lot easier.

Isn't there some kind of giant PDF of every known storage spot in the game? It seems like that would be the first thing someone would make once Dry storage was discovered. Please let me know if something like that exists.

As I mentioned earlier, the good thing about dry storage is that you can get storage on any ledge that has a wall behind it. Since storage spots are not unique, making a PDF like this would be pointless since you can tell if getting storage on a ledge is possible just by seeing if there is a wall behind the ledge.

On Bird's Peak rock, I use the Grappling Hook to attempt to skip the gate, and on Links swing back, he bounces off of the rocks wall instead of clipping through the way he came. I'm hugging the left side of the wall, and I'm only a few steps away from the edge towards where water would be. I'm aiming inside of the rock with my grappling hook as expected. Not really sure why it doesn't let me clip.

If you stand too far to the left or to the right, Link will not clip. It seems like you're standing too far to the left, so try moving to the right a bit.

[Hatefiend]

The guard is RNG. Sometimes he won't sniff, sometimes he'll sniff twice, sometimes once. The key to not getting caught is to roll close to the edge of the stairs once you roll past him so that if he notice you,he won't be able to catch you since you're hiding behind the edge of the stairs. The last guard is RNG also, and it just takes practice to get it right. Sometimes the RNG is bad enough that it's impossible to make it past him.

First off, thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. So what you are saying is, there is sometimes a chance where he will notice me no matter what? So sometimes, I will be forced to hide behind the railing so it disrupts his catching sequence? That's pretty hard to execute considering the camera is always completely messed up once the camera focuses on the guard.


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This kind of goes hand in hand with what you mentioned later in your post, which is the question, "where can I get storage?" The easiest way to know if a ledge can work as a storage spot is to climb up and then just pull out the Wind Waker. If Link turns around, you can get storage there. The key with this bush is that it's a second kind of storage spot, where Link doesn't turn around but instead gets pushed off a ledge (similar to the storage at Bird's Peak Rock). The good thing is that to the left of the bush on the Triangle islands is a ledge that makes Link turn around when you climb up, and climbing up almost anywhere on the ledge gives you a spot to get storage.

Where is this ledge exactly? Try to be descritive. I am surprised since Cosmo does not use that ledge and instead uses the bush. If the bush and the rock behave differently, what am I doing wrong? How can I get storage on that bush at least 50% of my attempts?

The first thing to know about superswims is that when the camera is locked, it does not directly face Link. Instead, the camera faces Link from a slight angle. So in order to "control" a superswim, you have to hold the control stick slightly up-left or up-right depending on the camera, not directly up. This will give you more control over whether or not you sploosh. After you get a hang of it, superswimming should be a lot easier.

What is the degree of my control stick being from directly up? As I am moving the control stick slightly left or slightly right, how will I know if that direction is the correct one; whether I am going too far, too short, etc. I know the answer to that question is if Link spins in a 180ish degree cycle, but how do I know if I am spinning 175 degree, 185, etc. If my minimap arrow creates an hourglass shape (imagine two triangles facing reversed directions ontop of eachother)? Also, without my map (ex on Northern Triangle Island) how do I know if I am not spinning and instead going back and forth. Also, even if I AM going back and forth, let's say neither of those two directions are where I want to aim. SO, when I have 1/3 breath and am ready to release, I'll never get the direction I need and will drown.

As I mentioned earlier, the good thing about dry storage is that you can get storage on any ledge that has a wall behind it. Since storage spots are not unique, making a PDF like this would be pointless since you can tell if getting storage on a ledge is possible just by seeing if there is a wall behind the ledge.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Think of Tingle's Island. I scoured that island for maybe 40 minutes and I couldn't find any location to get storage from. What about Forest Haven, without using Beetle's ship? Or Dragonroost Island without using the boulder? What about Gale Island? I understand that lots might just not have spots at all, but think about the boulder on DRI. Sometimes you climb up the boulder and you stand up and do not fall, simply because you climbed up too far right. You might dismiss the spot as a storage spot then?

If you stand too far to the left or to the right, Link will not clip. It seems like you're standing too far to the left, so try moving to the right a bit.

I will try this more, thank you!
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[nathanisbored]

Where is this ledge exactly? Try to be descritive. I am surprised since Cosmo does not use that ledge and instead uses the bush. If the bush and the rock behave differently, what am I doing wrong? How can I get storage on that bush at least 50% of my attempts?

Cosmo doesn't use the bush exactly. Anywhere along that ledge will work even if the bush is gone, because there's another ledge behind it that blocks the camera. I think he just prefers being close to the bush because it's lower to the ground, and it's easier for his muscle memory or something.

What is the degree of my control stick being from directly up? As I am moving the control stick slightly left or slightly right, how will I know if that direction is the correct one; whether I am going too far, too short, etc. I know the answer to that question is if Link spins in a 180ish degree cycle, but how do I know if I am spinning 175 degree, 185, etc. If my minimap arrow creates an hourglass shape (imagine two triangles facing reversed directions ontop of eachother)? Also, without my map (ex on Northern Triangle Island) how do I know if I am not spinning and instead going back and forth. Also, even if I AM going back and forth, let's say neither of those two directions are where I want to aim. SO, when I have 1/3 breath and am ready to release, I'll never get the direction I need and will drown.

Yes, I would use the hourglass shape when you have the map. I think you just have to get a feel for it otherwise.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Think of Tingle's Island. I scoured that island for maybe 40 minutes and I couldn't find any location to get storage from. What about Forest Haven, without using Beetle's ship? Or Dragonroost Island without using the boulder? What about Gale Island? I understand that lots might just not have spots at all, but think about the boulder on DRI. Sometimes you climb up the boulder and you stand up and do not fall, simply because you climbed up too far right. You might dismiss the spot as a storage spot then?

There are a few methods of wind waker diving (and therefore dry storage)
-get pushed off a ledge just after climbing it by getting something to shove you off (bomb, pot, tree, boulder)
-climb a ledge in front of a wall that blocks the camera. when you pull out the wind waker, Link will turn around automatically and fall
-pull wind waker while on a steep slope (hard).

[Hatefiend]

Cosmo doesn't use the bush exactly. Anywhere along that ledge will work even if the bush is gone, because there's another ledge behind it that blocks the camera. I think he just prefers being close to the bush because it's lower to the ground, and it's easier for his muscle memory or something.

Yes, I would use the hourglass shape when you have the map. I think you just have to get a feel for it otherwise.

There are a few methods of wind waker diving (and therefore dry storage)
-get pushed off a ledge just after climbing it by getting something to shove you off (bomb, pot, tree, boulder)
-climb a ledge in front of a wall that blocks the camera. when you pull out the wind waker, Link will turn around automatically and fall
-pull wind waker while on a steep slope (hard).

Thank you for this information.

Does anyone know any storage spots on Tingle Island? I cannot find any. Do some islands simply have no spots to get storage (and hence, you must Start + B + X out?

[Pedalpowertoast]

Define storage spot, I could say wind waker dive with a bomb from the top of the tower to get storage :p

[Hatefiend]

Define storage spot, I could say wind waker dive with a bomb from the top of the tower to get storage :p

In this case, storage with only the items pre-Greatfish or Forest Haven

[UYNiko]

Why you want to get storage there?

By the way, are you mashing the button to get the wind waker dive?... if so that might be your problem getting storage there, spaming the wind waker is way harder. The best way to do it is to press the button in the correct frame, what I like to do is watch the left foot of Link, when I see is turning flat I press the button to pull the Wind Waker... that is the easiest way to do it for me and I get the dive 95% of the time, doing it that way you have more time to react and press B, might be a little bit different in your TV/Monitor so you might need to play around with that. (I had problems when I switched from Dolphin to Wii)
Other thing you need to know is if you are pressing B too early or too late, if Link float for a sec then you are doing it too early and if he stays on the ground you are doing it too late.

What I do for the first 2 guards is grab the barrel and meanwhile Link is doing the animation I use C-Down with my left hand to lock the camera and get a better angle, changing the camera helps me a lot. Other thing you should do is walk the last segment so the corner is easier. If you still have problems with this you should use safe strats until your movement gets better, you can go to the right of the Moblin and wait until he is gone.

To control a SS without the map the best way to do it if looking at the background, try to get it as still as possible and try to remember how the background should look to go where you want to go, for example to SS to Greatfish you need to aim for Dragon Roost, that is the perfect angle.