Any% segmented run (goal of sub-1 hour)

[aleckermit]

Hey guys,

If you are bored and want to try something out for me, check out this video.

Basically, I'm trying to get a position and angle where I can just sidehop and then mash the hookshot button, and end up right on the edge of the post and be able to get to the other side.

As you can see I got very close for the red dot to appear, but it's just not quite enough. I've tried adjusting my position a little and still couldn't find a spot, but it seems likely that it's possible. This would make this segment a lot easier, so even if it takes a few seconds like this did to align and get in the position, it's definitely worth it.

This is 2 segments away, so it won't apply for a while, but I figured I'd post it now if anyone wanted to try it.

Here's my method I came up with, maybe you guys can mess around with it and prevent from having to do the "turn-around" trick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fFBATYmfco

[Lexkeeta]

did you actually get it to work though? >_>

[aleckermit]

did you actually get it to work though? >_>

I'm very out of practice with the turn-around trick, I'll leave it to Runnerguy or someone else to do

[P.Ommes]

hi there
didn't read here for quite some time; runnerguy will you stream more 'oot practise'? if yes please announce it, would love to watch ;-)

[Runnerguy2489]

Sure I can announce the next time I do that. It will always just be practice though since it was making the recording lag since I use a capture card. So no real attempts.

[Lexkeeta]

I'm very out of practice with the turn-around trick, I'll leave it to Runnerguy or someone else to do

press z, pause immediately afterwards and hold back

thats an easy way to do it

I didn't test this, but if you didn't actually get to the other side, how can you be sure this works? Remember the goal isn't to safely land on the edge of the post, it's to land on the pixel where you can make it across (the pixel you normally would get to with the turn-around trick.

You definately have the right idea, though. It would be so much more consistent if you found an area near there that puts you on the pixel so that you don't have to mash hookshot.

[TSDA]

Yes, but its slower because crouch stabs with jumpslash power does 4 damage each and quickspins only 2 each.

And wouldn't quickspins cause more lag?

[ZFG]

No, not really.

[Runnerguy2489]

you mean like you?  

Heh, yeah my guess would be no one would really want to do it.  

So I did some basic estimates, let me know if this looks on par:

Segment 1:
Opening Scene: 2 seconds

Segment 2:
Sword: 75 seconds (1:15), taken from my run to the sword.

Segment 3:
Shield: 52 seconds, taken from my old run

Segment 4:
Forest escape including owl text (bridge clip method is fastest since ocarina loses it's main purpose): 124 seconds (2:04), taken from an old test I did with the bridge clip.
To Zora's River: 29 seconds (no need for peahat superslide in such a tough segment, plus time saved is so small even if performed perfectly). I took this from an old run of mine.
Slash bushes for rupees, rock clip, get bean: 47 seconds, taken from pokey's vid, and added 7 seconds for bush slashes and set up of HESS + another 5 seconds if more rupees from rocks are needed (which is likely).
Scale river, get the 20 rupee near the octo, you'll need cucco as well: 1:00, taken from my old run + 5 seconds to get the red rupee.
Diving game to ruto bottle: 2:15, tested this myself, picked up the blue rupee near the shop on the way back up (+30 rupees - 5 from the jar and 25 for winning the diving game).
Bottle to King: 1:43
King to owl (plant bean too), to market, get 60 from bridge, DoT: 3:03, I timed this myself, this will give you 90 rupees and you can buy hylian shield
DoT Skip and become adult: 6:10, from my current run.

WE BECOME ADULT AT ~19:39

Compared to my current run at 17:06.

It takes 2:50 from pocket cucco to hookshot, including getting the hylian shield. So after 5 segments...

New way: 19:39 + whatever in segment 5 to pocket cucco
Current way: 17:06 + 2:50 + whatever in segment 5 to pocket cucco

So that's 19:56 currently and 19:39 hookshot skip way. This is after 5 segments.

~*ALL OF THE FOLLOWING IS JUST ESTIMATES*~

You will become an adult with between 10 and 19 rupees. You need 50 to fish, buy arrows, and buy deku stick. This will take a few seconds to get the red rupee by the Big Poe guy twice.

Now, assuming the play is on GCN, that means the next 3 segments (my 6, 7, and 8 ) must be combined. A deku stick must also be collected for segment 9.

That almost certainly means only one bomb drop for cube. Honestly, I'm crazy for trying to get as many bomb drops as I am...there's no way this 12 or 15 or however long it is minute segment is going to be able to do it...no way.

The cube must use the bombs in:
1) GC warp (unless you want to go back through Hyrule, but even then it's a megaflip)
2) rock on Death Mountain
3) fairy fountain explosion
4) megaflip gerudo bridge (ISG can be done on sign)
5) beamos for more bombs

Just off the top of my head:
2 superslides across hyrule: 10 seconds each
2 pressure jumps: 10 seconds each
SS from hyrule to Gerudo: about 15 seconds?
A few other smaller superslides probably add up to 10 seconds
No hookshot in Goron City: 10 seconds twice
No hookshot climb fence quickly in Kokiri forest: 10 seconds twice
buying the deku stick: 15 seconds? Even more if you have to sit through the text
You save 17 seconds from fisherman text being faster...you probably also don't lose the 20 seconds the savewarp gives since you will get to the fishing pond quicker and you may be able to get back to Kakariko before daylight (if not then it's even more time lost).

= +20 +20 +15 +10 +20 +20 +15 -17 = 1:43 added to the cube run through segment 9 (getting all the medallions). After this the runs converge. Each will have light arrows and should have one bomb left to blow up the beamos and get more.

GCN slower by 1:26 according to these calculations. Give it 30 seconds of lag in the last segment and it's still nearly a minute slower.

Someone will have to prove this incorrect (which is entirely possible) or find gerudo bridge skip no ISG on a console (good luck since a lot of TAS guys couldn't even do it with their TAS abilities). Otherwise, I'm continuing my run.

[RingRush]

Wasn't the only bridge skip video done without ISG on console?

[Runnerguy2489]

Kazooie's had this one for a while:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuDcK_3bPAM

But you might be right, KlydeStorm never said I just assumed from the graphics on his video. It's possible he just used savestates for ease of starting the trick again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU27ZETHNjo

EDIT: You are right, I asked and he said it was just savestates to get the position.

It's going to be really close in my opinion. The first part up to adult is the same. So that's an edge of about 17 seconds for the hookshot skip method, plus another 17 seconds for the fast fisherman text. It will then lose 20 seconds for hookshot in Goron City twice and probably 15 seconds for climbing the ladder after pressure jump twice. You will gain a little from not having to play the ocarina although that's only a few seconds. Same with catching a bug, only you'd lose that couple. That's going to make it +/- 5 to 10 seconds either way. Not to mention that segment 4 is hell...bridge clip, rock clip, lots of shit and then end with DoT skip. I think it's still going to be best to continue with my current run.

What are everyone's thoughts on that?

[aleckermit]

What are everyone's thoughts on that?

I think you should stick with your current route, that stuff sounds very iffy and could end up being a huge pain for just a second saved, or possibly even slower. Even so, I think it would be nice if someone would do a "sloppy" TAS on that new route to see what kind of time it gets. By sloppy I mean mimic what a human speedrunner would be capable of.

Either way I don't think it will save much time... not enough to scrap your run(which is going awesome btw).

[ZFG]

On console it would probably save barely any time at all.  We want the run done eventually and I'm sure you don't want to do that hellish seg 4 so just continue with your run right now.  For TAS though I'm sure its faster.

[Slowking]

Yeah seems like both are pretty much the same on console. And since segment 4 would be hell you wouldn't be able to optimize it as well as you can in your current run. So it probably would come out slower than what you are doing at the moment. So keep on doing what you are doing. ^^

[ING-X]

well, i did some timing/calculations, and i actually found out that, if you could manipulate 2 bomb drops in the hookshot skip route on vc, it'd actually be around 30 seconds faster than the current route. Here are the corrections I found:


-Going through Goron City without the hookshot only wastes 6 seconds each time (not 10 like RG said)
-If you do the pressure jump, not having hookshot to climb the ladder only wastes 2 seconds (maybe less)

So here's what I figure:

Starting after pocket cucco segment with 19:39 on the clock, you would go to the fishing pond to steal the rod, then get sticks on B through the ladder on the way to kakariko (rather than using water). Even if you don't make it to kakariko before day, it still takes 30 seconds to go from ToT to hyrule field anyway, so as long as you make it to kakariko within 30 seconds after daylight, you're fine.

Now for the bomb drops. Since you would manipulate 2 bomb drops in this segment anyway, and stealing the rod doesn't take that long, you would probably manipulate 2 bomb drops in the combined 6, 7, and 8. This means that the only time-wasters would be lacking the hookshot in LW and GC, as well as time wasted buying the deku stick (probably not 15 seconds, i'd have to time that). So even assuming it does waste 15 seconds, you still have this:

6+6+2+2+15-17=14 seconds lost. This means that, since you gain 17 seconds by skipping hookshot, you would save 3 seconds by skipping hookshot even with these subtractions. I'm not sure how much time the smaller superslides waste, I'd have to test that as well. But for our purposes we'll assume it is 10 seconds, so you would lose 7 seconds by skipping hookshot.

BUT, since the run would have to be on VC (since non-isg megaflip bridge skip is impossibly hard on console), you would gain 30+ seconds in the final segment (probably more because VC lags less than GC in the last seg). This means that overall, skipping hookshot and playing on VC gains you around 25 seconds (even more if the smaller superslides + deku stick collection don't actually waste as much time as we think they will).

However, I still think RG should continue with his run. 25 seconds isn't that much time, and I'm sure RG doesn't want to have to restart the entire thing and do that hellish seg 4 after all he's been through.

If anyone sees any errors in my calculations above please let me know.