MM: Trick Research & Discovery Thread

[Jeville]

Try triggering it via:

Cursed message.
"Time remaining!" Gossip stone message.
Sword dulling message.
Trade item message.
Hot Spring Water cooling message.
Treasure chest messages.
Tatl messages.
Clock Town Stray Fairy message.
Great Fairy messages.
Item stolen message.
Sign reading.
Eavesdropped conversations (i.e. Postman & Anju).
"Keep this picture?" Pictograph Box message.
Bottled Seahorse message in Pinnacle Rock (don't remember).
Opening Goron Racetrack cutscene.
"You're gonna pay for that" pot breaking message in Great Bay.
"What are you waiting for?!" Deku Princess message (one that pops when near Deku King).
Business Deku Scrub in South Clock Town: Try via making him appear and via giving him the tear.

Doubt anything will come out of it, but hey.

Edit#8453453254: More added.

[ING-X]

inb4 wrong warp to the moon with song of soaring storage

[Jeville]

I can't test this until tomorrow. ;( If anything interesting will occur (nope.avi), Song of Soaring storage should be tried in Glitch Temple. Game freezes if you advance though one of the doors, but I know some of you managed to bypass the block without Goron Mask that you can fall OoB from the void behind the block to make storing possible.

We might revisit what shows in this video, that shows what happens if the hidden owl statue is the only activated one. Curious how it might react to the stored Song of Soaring, testing it having the song stored from in and out of dungeons.

[thiefbug]

maybe i should add, that i tested all of these things on the japanese version... but i doubt that there are differences.
(Edit: Just tested on NTSC-U and the american crashes with start triggering too)

Items trigger the SoS without any effect, and the game softlocks on NPC's... (Same to gossip stone... just triggers an effectless SoS)

If you click "Yes" at the scarecrow, nothing happens except a switch to the Saria's song theme while the SoS Screen shows up... If you have chosen a warp destination the HUD stays visible... thats all

I doubt that there's something useful...

Btw - I didn't know that saving at owl statues keeps the song stores... So I used the hidden owl, saved with SoS stored, spawned at major's residence but crashed when i pressed that inside the house to get the item info... as always :/

edit: even the "warp to the entrance" doesn't work... i think it's just ... well... nothing xD

edit: okay, after you take a remain and press 'yes' the remain flies above your head - when the text fades, the camera switches to link but you can't move until the CS starts...
(Stored GBT SoS and did that in STT... however - even if you store the same temple it doesn't have an affect... didn have when i tried to that at least xD)

[GJ2323]

Could somebody try this?
Get OoB in a temple, hover high enough so that you can ocarina dive, play SoS, have the "soar to the entrance" box come up before link respawns, and select yes as the screen is fading to black.
I'm not even sure if this is possible or if it will do anything, but it's worth a try. SoS only seems to work properly when link has his ocarina out.

[thiefbug]

If you press yes when the screen fades, nothing hapens and you'll fall oob
If you press yes while falling SoS starts and almost falls of the red screen (getting above it when it reaches the oob zone) but still warps you to the entrance of the temple...

edit: hovering far above a boss loading zone and playing the SoS doesn't work either... it cancelles very fast but you can still hear the ocarina sounds depending on which button you press while walking in the boss room...

edit2: Since I don't know anything about the pointers in the game - Would there be any difference if there have been some BA differences? I don't have time to test yet, otherwise I would test it (Just like Ocarina on B... but there won't be a difference, i think)

I'm just asking cause Bottle adventure seems to affect the memory at least a little... And I don't know why there are things like Jinx timer and so on... so maybe there's a difference...?
(Catching hot spring water would trigger the effectless SoS... maybe a specific bottle gets the SoS to work...?)

[Jeville]

Btw - I didn't know that saving at owl statues keeps the song stores...

I did not know this either. The stored song can even transit to the other file, and that other file doesn't need an owl save. So I experimented transiting stored Song of Time to a new file to see how they would take effect in the first cycle. It doesn't skip the nature of the first cycle unfortunately (clock still running faster than normal, no Tatl cutscene after a reset, etc.). All it can do is to allow you to save the game in the first cycle that lets you keep a couple heart pieces, having area intro cutscenes to not show again, and getting 5000+ rupees in bank. Inverted Song of Time and Double Song of Time are working as intended too.

Anyway, back to SoS. I have nothing yet, will edit post if no other posts come.

Edit: Nothing to do with SoS yet, but I just received Ocarina back in the new file and went back in time. There was no flashback cutscene, nor Tatl cutscene. The game knew I already used the song for the first time (from storage). Anyway, this finding is useless considering this video.

We might revisit what shows in this video, that shows what happens if the hidden owl statue is the only activated one. Curious how it might react to the stored Song of Soaring, testing it having the song stored from in and out of dungeons.

Nope, nothing. Can pick Great Bay just like is shown in the video, will not be warped. Trying to move the cursor crashes the game.

Edit2: I will try and see if it will be functional via learning Song of Soaring later.

[mzxrules]

edit2: Since I don't know anything about the pointers in the game - Would there be any difference if there have been some BA differences? I don't have time to test yet, otherwise I would test it (Just like Ocarina on B... but there won't be a difference, i think)

I'm just asking cause Bottle adventure seems to affect the memory at least a little... And I don't know why there are things like Jinx timer and so on... so maybe there's a difference...?
(Catching hot spring water would trigger the effectless SoS... maybe a specific bottle gets the SoS to work...?)

Not likely. IIRC, Song Storage is dependent on the value of a single byte. How I remember it is this byte is set once you play a song, and when that mini-cutscene ends the game reads this byte to see what song was just played.

If BA affected Song Storage though, it'd be fairly obvious in only MM J or only MM U, since BA is different since hot water is saved via owl statues.

[thiefbug]

So you think it opens up the map and realized "Oh, he didn't play a song" - so the byte is set to default again? (or null... got no idea xD)
So SoS storage would be kinda useless except we can give it influence on a played song...

[mmFruit]

randomly found a little timesaver during a run today, i think its new? at least i havent seen it before.

not sure if theres any use for it though, might be hard to get it consistently


nevermind, i just practiced a little, it works and is awesome will upload a better quality video


all you need to do is press B before jumping out for the last time, and you should time the jump before the last one so you have the right distance.

[Steve]

There's already a way to do a precise dolphin dive onto that platform but that's still pretty cool.

[mmFruit]

yeah, nobody would do it in a run though. this way is quite easy


uploaded a higher quality vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFDQwjrTYjg

[mmFruit]

it doesn't really work on japanese (very hard), so its not relevant, pity


some other stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKL5QwpeJo

while practicing on emulator, this happened.
it's a file where I used cheats etc., so it might be of no relevance, but I dont think the cheats (plus I didn't use the "warp somewhere" options) caused it.
unfortunately I don't really know exactly what I did earlier on this savestate. I did mess around with storage, like resetting the ingame status with SoT storage and going from night of second day to dawn of the second day with SoDT storage.

so maybe this is totally useless and some random stuff the emulator came up with, but if there is a way to force it, whole stone tower climb+LA could be skipped.




so. I can't find the reason why this happened. maybe someone has a simple explanation? anyway, i'm still searching, this would be so great



(plus, theres a way to invert IST in a similiar way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72OciDIFyts , which is why i think it might work somehow for ST, too)

[Jeville]

If you cannot replicate it, have you tried again with the ST intro cutscene? Maybe it needs that, even though the IST doesn't. Or maybe any cutscene before entering ST, such as SoDT and SoS warping.

[GJ2323]

Did you beat Twinmold earlier in that cycle? That always happens if you beat Twinmold and then go back to Stone Tower in the same cycle.