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Author Topic: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?  (Read 21593 times)
mzxrules
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« on: February 26, 2015, 05:02:08 PM »

Can I get some rules for Glitchless so that I can add it to the Leaderboards?

Edit: I guess 100% as well while I'm at it. Global rules too (like when timing starts/end)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 05:08:41 PM by mzxrules » Logged

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Lilysol
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 09:14:44 PM »

We now have the bomber notebook stamps to add to 100%, which wasn't in the original Majora's Mask.

I personally vote to skip fishing stamp completion in 100%, unless we want to sink hours into standing next to a pond twice in an otherwise exciting run.
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Pedalpowertoast
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 10:52:18 PM »

My take on 100% is that it should be the same as on console. Collect everything that stays over Song of Time, which includes the fish entries you get upon getting one. While at first glance it would feel annoying, I'd say it'd be interesting to come up with fishing strats which is a pretty new thing to Zelda. It's also an interesting change of pace that some might not like, but I personally find it interesting as it's one of the new major changes in the "remaster" which makes it more different from console 100%. One thing I don't want is to have the definition be "Everything that stays over Song of Time except fishing", because then people can argue that if fishing isn't part of it, then why should Map and Compass be? It would go downhill from there.

We've been slipping away with 100% definitions a lot, just so they can be "fun" to run. I get it if its something like having "complete rollgoal 100%" as part of the TP 100% definition, that would be hell. Alternatively for MM3D you could change the definition to "All notebook stamps" instead of everything staying over SoT. And Lilysol just asking, you call a run where you get slapped in the face with a 5 second notification every 5 minutes exciting? Maybe it's for you, but that's similar to what I feel about fishing.

I'm pretty confident the majority will disagree with me and fishing will get booted out of the definition, but I just wanted to explain my take on it. I'd rather just change the definition to the notebook rather than arbitrary shit like mentioned earlier.
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DAHgaming
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 03:38:25 AM »

It should be everything that stays when you play song of time. The fishes though... That is up to the community to decide. I'll go with there not being a fishing section, but maybe we could make a separate leaderboard for completing the fishing journal the fastest.
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hcbboyhammer12
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 04:41:03 AM »

Being a person that has been sort of involved with this game, I say that we do NOT need to complete the Bombers' Notebook, for obvious reasons.
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UchihaSasuke
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 09:27:27 AM »

the new fishing is gonna be quite a pain to do. i just found out about this and that my file isn't actually 100%.

anyone has a pic of the bomber notebook stamp you get for fishing?

edit:

is this the stamp you get by getting everything in the notebook?

because i got that stamp without doing much fishing (only got 1 fish in each fishing spot)

fishing is as significant as the Cow in OoT now. if they can get away by skipping it, so should we here. or it could be the other way and OoT has to count the Cow now.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 11:29:29 AM by UchihaSasuke » Logged

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Lilysol
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 11:41:41 PM »

because i got that stamp without doing much fishing (only got 1 fish in each fishing spot)

If you only need one fish to get that, then the fishing hole is probably a fine include (assuming we even include the Bomber's notebook stamp).

The biggest problem is that King Chupa-Chupa and the Great Fairy Fish both take almost an entire cycle to find consistently on their own, and then even just catching them requires another ten or fifteen minutes of line wrangling alone.
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benstephens1000
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 12:31:31 AM »

Are you sure you need fishing to get that stamp? I thought the fishing pond wasn't in the bomber's notebook? My take on 100% at this point is all things you don't lose including the final stamp on the notebook. All fish is dumb because it's not even in your inventory
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Powerstar9
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 12:32:18 AM »

Is there a lot of RNG to fishing? I heard there's some fish that rarely appear and require you wearing certain masks. FD isn't mandatory for the fishing section, is he?
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Lilysol
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 02:25:48 AM »

Are you sure you need fishing to get that stamp? I thought the fishing pond wasn't in the bomber's notebook? My take on 100% at this point is all things you don't lose including the final stamp on the notebook. All fish is dumb because it's not even in your inventory
I just tested. It doesn't appear the fishing ponds have an entry in the bomber's notebook, at least nothing I can find without 100%ing the fish so far.

Is there a lot of RNG to fishing? I heard there's some fish that rarely appear and require you wearing certain masks. FD isn't mandatory for the fishing section, is he?
A fair amount. The biggest issues are the two boss fish. It appears you need to spend a major portion of Day 1 and Day 2 fishing to have a decent shot at spawning them, then you need to leave and reenter the fishing pool until both the boss fish and the required bait fish are both spawned. Some fish only spawn with certain masks, and many fish aren't necessarily mask exclusive, but become easier to catch with certain masks on. The boss fish require a large amount of fishing to be done in the current cycle, as well as both the boss fish and their respective bait fish to be spawned at the same time (enjoy reloading the zone a ton). My favorite is the Cuccofish, spawned with Bremen Mask. It's literally a chicken with fins.

Anyways, back on topic. I think it's fair to call 100% "All items that persist through Song of Time". The real question is if we want to include Bomber's Notebook or not. We should get a list of things that are in the Bomber's Notebook that don't necessarily equate to items we can collect. The lottery in west Clocktown comes to mind.
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UchihaSasuke
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2015, 05:13:53 AM »

talking to the bombers prompts them to tell you about any unfinished events. when you do everything, they no longer give you any extra info. no one directs you ever to the fishing hole so it is safe to say it doesn't do anything to the Bomber's Notebook and you'll have the final stamp even if never go in them.

tomorrow i'll be doin a 100% run so that'll be the best chance to test it.


Anyways, back on topic. I think it's fair to call 100% "All items that persist through Song of Time". The real question is if we want to include Bomber's Notebook or not. We should get a list of things that are in the Bomber's Notebook that don't necessarily equate to items we can collect. The lottery in west Clocktown comes to mind.

i know of a few:

giving a Zora a pictograph of Lulu
the Zora pots minigame
lighting the torches in the Zora Hall
completing the title deed sidequest (awards you rupees)

on the flipside, some events don't do anything even here like this one:

the witch that wants a mushroom for Blue Potions doesn't have an entry so not every little favor counts.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 05:19:22 AM by UchihaSasuke » Logged

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gabyelnuevo
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 12:50:41 PM »

mzxrules idk if you seen this already, but this is the glitchless any% route/some rules http://pastebin.com/Ddkyx5GM
The route is not up to date so there might be need for optimization in some parts of the route Tongue
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 12:52:19 PM by gabyelnuevo » Logged
benstephens1000
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 10:58:19 AM »

At this point, the majority of people have said that the requirements for 100% should be all items that persist through song of time (items, maps, owls, compasses, masks, gear) and all events under the "Completed" section of the bomber's notebook. This second part means that specific steps of events in the notebook are allowed to be skipped as long as the event is categorized as "Complete" for example, it is possible to get the entry "Buried Treasure" (the three graves in ikana graveyard) without ever having talked to the stalchildren that open the Graves and and adding them to your schedule.

Anyone opposed to this definition?
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Squirelofjustice
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 05:13:26 PM »

I agree with Ben. Similar to OOT where you skip silver gauntlets but get the gold, it's ok to skip the filler in order to get the end result.
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Lilysol
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 07:09:48 PM »

Anyone opposed to this definition?

I was already under this impression. The Bomber's Notebook completion stamp should really be the only thing that matters.

Also, the list of "menial tasks" that don't reward items we'd already be getting for 100% seems small.
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