Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions

[Madmonk12345]

I haven't tried doing consecutive mask jumps myself, however some people say that doing 3 of them in a row crashes the game

1. That refers to failing the third mask jump, not completing it. failing any mask jump after that or before that is OK on landing provided you are sufficiently distant from the ground. It is possible to do a mask jump out of that animation, even though it doesn't look like it, and the timing is the same as the second mask jumps before it. I made that last segment of the video specifically to address this belief and didn't upload anything about the setup until I had proof of this, that you could do more than two successful consecutive mask jumps and that that failing the fourth would give the normal jump slash animation unlike the third before it.

I myself was running into a long stretch where I could only do two consecutive mask jumps in a row and then crash failing the third, because the Bottle + b + item button + home button string of inputs is very difficult to do correctly and issues with it are very difficult to diagnose. I've gotten past that though. The best way to practice this is to practice the mask jumps over water; that way you can still continue your practice even if you fail the third mask jump because you will land in water and not crash the game.

2. Doesn't apply when over a void. you just void out.

[weckar]

So I've just been experimenting a lot. Tried to find a reverse ikana well clip, but no luck. Has one been found yet?
Also, like I assume many others have I tried the old N64 HMS CS skip, but that only resulted in a total system freeze.
All in all: I'm new to this game specifically, but excited about the possibilities. Trying to learn the basic tricks, but thus far trying to stay away from anything frame-perfect that can't be buffered. The N3DSXL is just not layed out for that stuff.

[ToxicPlaysStuff]

I'm learning Any%, and I pretty much have it down, but there's one thing that concerns me: When getting Epona into Clocktown, she stands up on her hind legs every two ingame seconds, and the animation also takes two ingame seconds. So when the time is 5:58 (No ISoT) you can't get on her in time for the day transition. Is there a workaround to this?

[BigHairyFart]

She doesn't whinny at fixed intervals, it's random. You just have to be lucky.

[Madmonk12345]

I'm learning Any%, and I pretty much have it down, but there's one thing that concerns me: When getting Epona into Clocktown, she stands up on her hind legs every two ingame seconds, and the animation also takes two ingame seconds. So when the time is 5:58 (No ISoT) you can't get on her in time for the day transition. Is there a workaround to this?

There is now, courtesy of me.

Epona Skip in MM3D(Milk bar clip with consecutive mask jumps)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__86lzosJQ

Turns out,  even if you buffer every frame that requires frame perfect input for a consecutive mask jump, it's STILL faster than getting Epona, even with a shaky hand and and wasting time worrying over which inputs to press. I think some of the inputs at the end were unnecessary as well and could be replaced with a normal mask jump, so this can likely be boiled down to around a minute of inputs for a 5 minute skip minus the benefits of Deku sword.

If this doesn't convince you guys to learn consecutive mask jumps, I don't know what will. It's a 2 - 3 minute time save.

[gymnast86]

The thing is, pause buffering on a regular 3ds even with a digital copy and a class 10 SD card is extremely difficult and people who have played on both the regular 3ds and the New 3ds systems say that the New  3ds home buffering is a godsend compared to the home buffering on a regular 3ds. I myself have tried consecutive mask jumping for what i would estimate to be about and can very rarely do more than 2 consecutive mask jumps at a time. So I for one will not be doing this difficult trick during any of my runs unless an easier way that does not involve an insane amount of pause buffering. Also Deku Sword is cool

[reidenlightman]

The thing is, pause buffering on a regular 3ds even with a digital copy and a class 10 SD card is extremely difficult and people who have played on both the regular 3ds and the New 3ds systems say that the New  3ds home buffering is a godsend compared to the home buffering on a regular 3ds. I myself have tried consecutive mask jumping for what i would estimate to be about and can very rarely do more than 2 consecutive mask jumps at a time. So I for one will not be doing this difficult trick during any of my runs unless an easier way that does not involve an insane amount of pause buffering. Also Deku Sword is cool

I'm going to have to agree with every word of this. If someone really wants WR that badly, be my guest, but I really don't want to have to spend time grinding such a difficult trick. Plus, I've tried doing even just 2 in the same jump, but couldn't quite grasp how consecutive jumps work. The socalled video demonstrations really don't provide much in the way of explanation.

[Madmonk12345]

Ugggh. Sorry guys. Had no idea it was gonna be a New 3DS exclusive. ((((

The normal way has less buffering and would have been executed faster, but I was struggling for consistency with the trick and wanted to show that it was possible. I did it this way because I had assumed that home buffering was easy for everybody XP.

It's much easier now than it was though. It's been pointed out that you can press the inventory button during the buffers instead of beforehand, right when you press the mask button, making the trick substantially easier with only face button inputs out of buffers. You might want to take another stab at it now.

Fun fact: still haven't beaten MM, 3D or otherwise, just because I've been enjoying myself messing around with glitches. I've ruined the game for speedrunning and I haven't even finished it yet.

[Madmonk12345]

I'm going to have to agree with every word of this. If someone really wants WR that badly, be my guest, but I really don't want to have to spend time grinding such a difficult trick. Plus, I've tried doing even just 2 in the same jump, but couldn't quite grasp how consecutive jumps work. The socalled video demonstrations really don't provide much in the way of explanation.

Sorry to give a terrible explanation. :/ Feeling like an awful person today even though I should feel great given the find; I seem to just ruin everything. Half considering deleting the videos and having the community pretend this all never happened. Since no one seems to be able to do this trick anyways without my advice I could technically un-ruin this game if I wanted to.

Fun Fact: I wouldn't even have a New 3DS if I hadn't lost my 3DS on a plane flight last July, and likely would have never found this trick in that case. I'll just add this to the laundry list of things ruined by that.

I'll attempt a better explanation right now anyways
basically, the new strategy is this; it's substantially easier to perform.
with bottle on one non-screen button and a transformation mask on another:

1. press b + home at around the same time; I use thumb + middle  This part seems inconsistent; home doesn't seem to act the same way every time, and I need to do more research. My previous statements in the videos about timing aren't particularly accurate, even though I felt the were at the time. sorry.

I haven't been getting this very consistently either by the way. Sorry if the videos gave that impression. I just wanted to show that the trick worked and dispel rumors that more than two mask jumps was impossible.

2. return to the game after holding down where the mask inventory screen button would be with your left thumb and the mask button, pressing the home button quickly afterwards ensuring you only advance the game a single frame. ZL's fins should be out halfway at this point. If not, step 1 failed, either from your error or the system's.

What's ultimately going on here is that you are doing a mask jump manually using buffered inputs as Zora while holding down the inventory button on the right frame so that you can release them later. That's all, through all the specific buttons mentioned.

3. release everything on the next home buffer. The inventory screen pops up on just the right frame and you can swap out one mask for another item(which I choose to be another transformation mask because it makes the trick repeatable without pausing), negating the mask storage that locks you out of your buttons while still giving you the mask jump.
4. pull out a bottle, repeat from step 1. bottle causes issues because when you pull out a bottle there's three frames where you cannot perform any inputs at all. It's what makes this trick so difficult.

I'm sorry if this is explanation isn't at all helpful, but I have an exam to study for, so any further explanation is on delay for at least a couple of days. Oh well. Not like anyone wants this to work anyways.

[kronspik]

No need to apologize for finding a trick. This isn't the first time a new trick has forced people to buy new systems. OoT has had to deal with this for a while now.

It's possible that we will find another way to use gain distance into the loading zone, or an easier way to consecutive mask jump, or the cost of N3DS will drop. People are just salty.  

EDIT: Should N3DS be considered a different platform on the leaderboard if there would be N3DS exclusive tricks? I have no idea what the standard is for this.

[Pedalpowertoast]

I was just about to say what kronspik was about to say, no need to blame yourself for anything, I give props to you for even bothering to test this trick at all, it's good for documentation purposes. And honestly I kind of expected some n3DS exclusive thing to be found, or something that makes it faster sooner or later.

I personally don't really give a shit if its faster or not, even if a run is done on poorer hardware, that doesn't mean it's going to be worse execution wise, by that I mean until someone manages to pull off this skip in a run (with or without n3DS which is just a matter of time) all the times are going to be equal, think of it as some sort of "TAS only" trick that saves a lot of time in some other game, but can't be pulled off. Basically you could unofficially "convert" times, which would give a rough estimate about what time you could've gotten with or without the trick, of course people aiming for WR wouldn't care about that.

It's no doubt that eventually it's going to become the thing that splits the runners, unless we find some other method like kronspik mentioned.

I know it can be demotivating to know this trick exists, but I haven't seen anyone buying a Japanese n3DS to gain advantage yet, so I wouldn't really care about it. It's no different from when people did runs of this game back when it came out, despite it being new and glitches took some time to find. Things like BA weren't used, but people still did runs.

So these are basically my thoughts about this atm, feel free to disagree with me. I probably forgot something, but ah well.

As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

E: On second thought, before we start discussing this more, I think we should probably make a new topic, just to not abuse this one.

[kronspik]

As for my thoughts about how to handle leaderboards, this I think is a bit of a tricky question, as technically n3DS does nothing more than let the game go to the 3DS home menu faster, which doesn't really mean it's faster from a gameplay perspective compared to say iQue with less lag or Wii VC due to emulation. If we're going to split it for that, might as well split by Digital and Cart copies and SD card Class speeds, which also affect home menu speeds... It's a really controversial subject, but hopefully it doesn't take long to come up with a resolution. The last thing I want is this games community to die due to this whole thing, it's better we discuss it now rather than later.

Actually from my understanding, the N3DS lets you consistently perform 1 frame buffers. So you can press Home, advance a single frame, and then press Home again. On other 3DS versions, this is really inconsistent and you will advance 1-3 frames instead. That's the difference between being able to properly execute 1 frame tricks or not. The issue was never about Home speed.

[Madmonk12345]

Guess what I just found. (It involves saving you all the price of a New 3DS + Capturecard)

Turns out there's a way to reduce the trick from two buffers to one buffer that I hadn't thought was possible before due to the belief that releasing the inventory buttons prevented input to the game. It adds a frame perfect trick, but if people can do storage in TWW which doesn't have consistent timings like this trick should they can certainly do this, and it means no more relying on buffering which allows everybody with any 3DS to do this trick. I'm probably not going to do this if I ever do runs because it's pretty difficult as it is for me, but I'm sure people like Gymnast or SVA can handle it.

Step 1: press home and b at the exact same time, as if you were doing a mask jump without buffering. I've dome more testing and found this to be the case. The only reason I couldn't tell for sure is because the home button is ridiculously finicky for consistent input, and often pressing b later or earlier would seem to work, but I've determined that to have been a result of not giving the home button sufficient pressure or pressure on a location too far from the center of the button due to the button being concave instead of convex.

Step 2: hold down your deku or goron mask button(on either x or y) and your mask inventory button as the game returns from the home screen. at the very next frame after the game starts back up, let go of the mask inventory button. If you've done it too early you won't pause at all, too late and you won't be able to pull a bottle after the inventory closes because the menu will have popped up too late.

The inventory pops up, and the trick works as it normally does; swap out the deku mask for the goron mask or vice versa and continue with

3: press bottle then b + home simultaneously and repeat from step 2. My advice here is to once you've gotten this step working once or twice to find a rhythm for the button presses; It's what I do, and I'll try and demonstrate it in the video showing this off once I make it.

No video for a while. Got major assignments to do between now and then. Probably will be up on Wednesday presuming I don't end up doing it earlier out of my obsession with this crazy trick overriding my common sense.

[gabyelnuevo]

Nice! =)

[reidenlightman]

Yeah, I still can't even get it twice. And guess what. I'm using my new New 3DS for it. I can frame buffer 1 frame consistently with the home button. But I cant fucking do this. These explanations are way to convoluted. It really needs to be boiled down to what to do without all the explanation tied in. It makes it extremely hard to understand.

Consecutive mask jumps really aren't worth this frustration.

Edit: I've managed to get 3 in a row. Side note number 2: It took about 100 tires just to get the second mask jump to happen at all. It took 100 tries just to get Zora Link to pull out a goddamn bottle. Not to mention, I tried the clip, just to see if I could get OoB to setup where to do the Mask jumping... tried another 100 times to no avail.