Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions

[gamestabled]

threads for that already exist in editors discussion  http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?board=26.0

[gabyelnuevo]

It's been thought, we should rename Jumpslash Cancel to either JumpAttack Landing Cancel or Landing Cancel since you're just canceling the landing of a jump slash and Mask Jump to JumpAttack Cancel or JumpSlash Cancel since you're canceling the Jump Attack in midair.
What do you guys think?

[UchihaSasuke]

Do bubbles still give 50R when killed via light arrow?

i used the bubbles to farm the 5000 rupees like the 2005 100% run but ben's strat is slightly faster since there's a lot more Eenos.

[TopazPhoenix]

Hey, I'm kinda new and was recently messing around with the game after beating it. Before I new about how Bottle Adventure worked in this game compared to OoT, I was convinced that the inclusion of the Fishing Hole would break the game, so I did some extensive tests on that, and also messed around with RI, mainly with FD. I found out a few things that have and haven't been mentioned here. First, the fishing hole. I escaped the hole using SoS, which is known, and discovered that reentering the hole resets your standard B, and that the forms each have standard and secondary B actions based on their status. Entering maps other than the hole keep the Rod. I also discovered that the Blacksmith reads from your B button rather than from the gear menu, since he gave Human Link the alternate form text. This makes me wonder what would happen if you somehow got Kokiri again after upgrading, then trying to upgrade again. I also discovered that FD actually shares the B button with Link, since changing to him with B Rod changed B to the FD sword, then back to the normal sword. I really want to see weird B with FD, but you can only use the Pictobox, which can't be used midair. I also "found" the Bottle on B via Deku Sword (before I came here) and encountered the first cycle glitch, so I put the Ocarina on B to see what had happened and found all of the songs still intact. By the way, is the Deku Sword the GF sword, or a normal sword with bugged damage values? While messing around with FD, I humorously found him unable to climb ladders. He doesn't crash, but ladder climbing sounds play while FD stares at the ladder, contemplating how ladders are supposed to work and how to use them. Also, I noticed the descriptions for BA masks saying that some worked similar to the Gibdo's mask, but do they have the same warps? Also, is it possible to use ocarina items or some other method to interrupt the Blue Warp to activate a wrong warp? I want to find a way to potentially go straight to the moon, similar to OoT. If not, I want to find a way to manipulate gear values in the gear menu. That's why I want to upgrade to Gilded twice, to see what would happen. That's all, really. May not be helpful, but just want to put it out there.

[Weegeechan]

I was messing around in Pirates' Fortress today, when I realized the main area with the tower can be completed much quicker. We've been using Zora to take out the Gerudo but if you do the area as Goron its much faster. The only hard part about it is getting the Gerudo in front of the tower but I figured out a way to do it quick.

All you do is roll to this spot;



then wait for the Gerudo to start walking to the right like in the picture, then quickly roll behind her and punch her. Then the Gerudo on the bridge can be rolled up to and punched.

I timed this just to be sure and it ended up being 6-7 seconds faster then when Zora.

[PVZBronyGod]

Hey, I'm kinda new and was recently messing around with the game after beating it. Before I new about how Bottle Adventure worked in this game compared to OoT, I was convinced that the inclusion of the Fishing Hole would break the game, so I did some extensive tests on that, and also messed around with RI, mainly with FD. I found out a few things that have and haven't been mentioned here. First, the fishing hole. I escaped the hole using SoS, which is known, and discovered that reentering the hole resets your standard B, and that the forms each have standard and secondary B actions based on their status. Entering maps other than the hole keep the Rod. I also discovered that the Blacksmith reads from your B button rather than from the gear menu, since he gave Human Link the alternate form text. This makes me wonder what would happen if you somehow got Kokiri again after upgrading, then trying to upgrade again. I also discovered that FD actually shares the B button with Link, since changing to him with B Rod changed B to the FD sword, then back to the normal sword. I really want to see weird B with FD, but you can only use the Pictobox, which can't be used midair. I also "found" the Bottle on B via Deku Sword (before I came here) and encountered the first cycle glitch, so I put the Ocarina on B to see what had happened and found all of the songs still intact. By the way, is the Deku Sword the GF sword, or a normal sword with bugged damage values? While messing around with FD, I humorously found him unable to climb ladders. He doesn't crash, but ladder climbing sounds play while FD stares at the ladder, contemplating how ladders are supposed to work and how to use them. Also, I noticed the descriptions for BA masks saying that some worked similar to the Gibdo's mask, but do they have the same warps? Also, is it possible to use ocarina items or some other method to interrupt the Blue Warp to activate a wrong warp? I want to find a way to potentially go straight to the moon, similar to OoT. If not, I want to find a way to manipulate gear values in the gear menu. That's why I want to upgrade to Gilded twice, to see what would happen. That's all, really. May not be helpful, but just want to put it out there.

RBA in MM3D would be a great discovery. I also want a system similar to BA in OoT that configures the B button. I wanna try putting Zora Fins on Human's B, or Goron Punch on Human's B. Changing FD Link's value would be cool too.

[Powerstar9]

Don't know if its known by everyone, but I wanted to make this clear.
Like in OoT3d, you can't auto-roll from a full jump. That ability instead gets passed on to Goron Link which I find a very stupid move on Grezzo's part.

However, you can still do a sort of psuedo-autoroll. If you jump and press A right before Link touches the ground, you will roll (or spin as Deku) with max speed, eliminating the landing lag. You'll know you got it if Link rolls in the same direction he faces when he jumps and (as Deku) the spin has no startup. Note: Deku can do this after a sidehop as well. Just don't forget to untarget before you press A.

For example, at the very beginning of the game in the forest, you can do this on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th jump to get across the platforms a bit faster. Be careful about the direction you're facing before the 3rd jump because Link can't move freely in a roll (like in TP and SS). For practice, I suggest being in South Clock Town and jump off the sides of Clock Tower since they're easily accessible. You can practice sidehop spinning as Deku here too on the slopes and on flat surface. I've managed to get the timing down pretty consistently since I've got a good feel for it (I get it 9/10 times).

Video to come soon.

[gabyelnuevo]

I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

[Weegeechan]

I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

Woah, nice! That would be an awesome trick to see in a TAS

Do you know why it crashed though?

[Masterluigisw]

I went back and started doing crap with the jump slash cancel stuff when an idea randomly blew into my mind, i tested for like 7 minutes and found out that it's actually possible, if you go into your mask inventory right when you perform a jump slash cancel (mask jump) (1 or 2 frames after i guess?) and put away the mask you used, after the canceling of the jump slash you still have control of Link.meaning you can still perform another normal jump slash or whatever else. Both human link and zora get this thing, as if taking out tthe mask a frame after makes link not go into "cutscene mode"

If TAS was possible this could easily be done making this a sort-of-type "zombie hover" in MM3D.

Concept video of what im rambling about: https://youtu.be/aS6WQc8Kt_U (excluding the crash and you don't have to jump slash right away after the first one)

Like the MM jump slash cancel hover thing MrGrunz (or GnS?) cant remember who did back few years ago on MM64. So maybe hovering that way would be usefull in a TAS of mm3d. But for us... not much use for it. Your theory doesn't seem to work if it crashes the game. Maybe it's like a HESS crash from a wrong input button/cursor. Try it again without holding an input longer than 1-2frame for the 2nd slash cancel/mask jump.

[gabyelnuevo]

Like the MM jump slash cancel hover thing MrGrunz (or GnS?) cant remember who did back few years ago on MM64. So maybe hovering that way would be usefull in a TAS of mm3d. But for us... not much use for it. Your theory doesn't seem to work if it crashes the game. Maybe it's like a HESS crash from a wrong input button/cursor. Try it again without holding an input longer than 1-2frame for the 2nd slash cancel/mask jump.

The times I've done this it didn't crash but it did in the vid, because it has the same effects like the action swap extra jump one (it was by GaS, not Grunz ) it crashes because the is suppose to be a "back slash" animation Link does in MM64 (https://youtu.be/Ppa3yJUO6OY)  that i imagine it got removed in MM3D and since the game doesn't find the animation it simply crashes, you can easily avoid the crash just by pulling another item and jump slash again (which is what TAS could do to make the other Jumpslash Cancel).

In short, the crash doesn't have anything to do with the actual "hovering" (hope you guys know by now my English is not that great so i may write things wrong or confusing sometimes)

[Madmonk12345]

Woah, nice! That would be an awesome trick to see in a TAS

Do you know why it crashed though?

Jump slash animation crashes after mask cancel; we saw this when we did these sort of jumps the old way in this game via action swap. Also, after testing, I've found that zora JS doesn't crash if you do it far enough from the ground, so no crash failure worries. Maybe Link's is the same way?

I don't think this is tas only, but there will be lots of buffering. What I've been doing is as Zora Link buffering home with thumb + b with middle while holding the item button with my index, holding item button + goron or deku mask button, pressing home, then releasing everything for a frame. pull out bottle, rinse repeat hopefully without messing up the timing on home+ b + item for the 4 - 5 times you need to reach the height you need. However, getting the bottle out in time is really hard, and I'm struggling not to lose height.
 If we get this consistent, we'll be able to skip epona and probably hookshot at the very least, and have a way to bk skip for STT; this is probably enough for sub-MM2D on its own.

[Powerstar9]

This is what I was talking about before: http://youtu.be/HnNO78yCt9g
Hope it makes more sense.
Also, I think this is as fast as the jumping part in the beginning can get: http://youtu.be/2BTL2wxwNUU

Jump slash animation crashes after mask cancel; we saw this when we did these sort of jumps the old way in this game via action swap. Also, after testing, I've found that zora JS doesn't crash if you do it far enough from the ground, so no crash failure worries. Maybe Link's is the same way?

I don't think this is tas only, but there will be lots of buffering. What I've been doing is as Zora Link buffering home with thumb + b with middle while holding the item button with my index, holding item button + goron or deku mask button, pressing home, then releasing everything for a frame. pull out bottle, rinse repeat hopefully without messing up the timing on home+ b + item for the 4 - 5 times you need to reach the height you need. However, getting the bottle out in time is really hard, and I'm struggling not to lose height.
 If we get this consistent, we'll be able to skip epona and probably hookshot at the very least, and have a way to bk skip for STT; this is probably enough for sub-MM2D on its own.

If Bk skip in STT is possible, I can see it being much a run ender. U can end up either screwing it up and voiding out or crash the game. Either way, looks like we'll be grinding STT a lot more from now on.
Mask jump to skip epona and hookshot? Ehhhhhh..... Well, for one, there's no way we're skipping epona because we need her for a warp and climbing ST would be a pain in the butt. And those 5 minutes supposebly saved from skipping hookshot would probably dwindle down since mask jumping is pretty slow.

[Weegeechan]

I discovered a way to do the Deku Palace maze quicker!

First off, that first deku in the maze can be walked by easily. I don't know why we've been waiting lol:



Then the door frame that we backflip on with Zora can also be backflipped on by Deku. Furthermore, you can then backflip onto the platform with the deku flower for a quicker way of doing that section.



Then you can also get on the end platform even quicker:



As shown in the picture above, wait until the platform gets to about that spot, the fly out towards the platform and you'll pop up on top.

[Weegeechan]

I forgot, I also found an "Impossible Rupee" similar to the "Impossible Coin" in Super Mario 64.



Thought this was neat because it's completely OoB for some reason. Makes me wonder if it's in the original MM? Is it even known about actually?