GIM in MST

[remidemmi]

Hi, i think the MST runners should decide if they want to allow GIM or not.

Im bad at writing things like this but i guess someone has to do it.


My own opinion: ban it

It is kinda similliar to RBA which is banned, so allowing one of them while banning the other seems silly.  Banning RBA does not make that much sense anymore if you would still requier to get the medallions and stones in the normal way, but i still prefere MST the way it is. RBA and GIM dont really fit into MST. AD is the category for all the crazy glitches and fency stuff, not MST.  The closer these to categorys get, the less reason exists to keep both.

(also i dont like doing GIM, and unless someone comes up with a really smart route that i cant think of (i suck at routing so its possible) it would make the run pretty stupid)

[Tr621]

I agree. Allowing GIM and RBA would make MST and AD too similar.

[Jbop]

I'm in favor of banning it for MST but allowing it in AD.

[Saltor]

I agree as well. Allow it in All Dungeons and MSB, but not MST.

[SkyKnight34]

I'm good for banning it in MST

[ING-X]

I agree with banning GIM in MST. MST was conceived as a "no large-skip glitches" category, and one of the ideas behind it was that crazy memory-hacking glitches (like RBA) shouldn't be used in it. GIM is similar enough to RBA that, if RBA isn't allowed, GIM shouldn't be either.

[Apasher]

If we're still going off of the "no major skips" approach to this category, then we might as well ban WW and DoT skip, but that's an entirely different discussion

If the MST community agrees to ban GIM, you should make it clear in the rules that this category won't allow any form of Item Manipulation (RBA and GIM under one name)

[chasetopher]

I am in favor of banning GIM in MST. I think it would be strange to ban RBA and allow GIM. And if you allow both RBA and GIM, the route would basically become All Dungeons with Trials. We enjoy not using RBA because it makes for a unique and interesting route. And that's really the reason MST exists, because people find the route fun.

[mzxrules]

For the time being, I have added a rule that bans GIM in MST. I have a few questions though.

If GIM did not rely heavily on RNG or was easier to perform, or if it worked on n64, would that change your decision?

[remidemmi]

to answer mzx questions: most likely no

Also even do i appreciate their opinions, most posters except skyknight and me dont really run mst and i would really like to hear the opinions of the other runners (marco, psy, adarax maybe droma greg and zelly)

[Apasher]

Yeah, I wouldn't make any final decisions and changes until we hear from more people who run the category. Their input matters the most.

EDIT: Marco can't post here, but he said on Twitter that he agrees for banning this in MST.

[xxshawn]

I'm still new to running the category, though I plan on taking it seriously for a while. I am for banning GIM in MST.

[Qweczol]

I am for BANNING GIM in MST as well as keeping RBA unallowed

[Sveet]

GIM is still relatively new, and I'm sure more uses will be discovered for it, but looking at the Theoretical List of Attainable Items it doesn't seem quite as broken as RBA. Of the items useful to the category, I think I only see Bottle, Light Arrows and Fire Arrows. Bow is theoretically possible, but IDK how you'd get the glitch in the Ice Arrows room. Goron tunic looks possible too, but it isn't useful to the category right now.

I'm no expert by any means, but I dont think the route would change much besides a [potentially] quicker bottle and skipping the (extremely annoying) LACS. Using it for Fire Arrows may be faster overall, since it would let you skip the cutscene after Water Temple, but I havent seen anyone with a setup for them yet.

My vote (if i even get one) is for allowing it.


edit- and to compare this to RBA, you can't use it to get medallions or other goal items. I can understand why RBA should be banned, but I don't see a reason for GIM to be

[Apasher]

edit- and to compare this to RBA, you can't use it to get medallions or other goal items. I can understand why RBA should be banned, but I don't see a reason for GIM to be

The thing is... GIM and RBA are both categorized as Item Manipulation, or what I like to call "item-giving glitches." Sure GIM doesn't give medallions and stones, but a new player, or speedrunners outside the OoT community, would find it silly to ban RBA and allow GIM since they both technically fall under the same category of context.

You could also argue that Light Arrows is a goal item, since you need them to beat the trials.