thoughts on banning PJ64 entirely from zsr leaderboards?

[ahou]

No, it's not contradicting. People can still learn and do whatever runs they want on emulator, I just think that if they want to submit their runs it should be on an official version instead of an inaccurate unofficial emulator.

It actually does seem really contradictory though to me to allow vc but not other emulators. IMO, you can't have it both ways. Either emulators is allowed, or it's not. Differentiating based on who made it rather than the quality of the emulator seems silly to me.

[whyieyesya]

people in top 10% of categories should be required to play on console imo. emu isnt consistent. look at the intro of tokyoboi's any% run. its like 2 seconds faster than other runs both on VC and emu.

Maybe we should perform some basic tests on emu runs in top 10%. If the intro is faster than on any console version, then that is obviously unacceptable. Test some of the loading zones as well perhaps.

[gamestabled]

To me it seems more arbitrary to allow some unofficial emulators and not others, than it does to ban emulators. People are going to be able to cheat no matter how they play the game so I kinda focus on how the system they're using actually functions without intentional cheating being considered. Emulator naturally does not always function as the official releases do, and it affects times. I think its fine if people want to run emulator and improve their times on it or whatever, and it should definitely be allowed on SRL, (and SRL leaderboards when/if they exist) but it seems to make sense to ban it from ZSR leaderboards, as they are the closest thing as there is to an "official" leaderboard.

If time was put in to making a standardized ZSR approved emulator, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it until i saw it, but it's a cool idea.

Also, VC/GC are not unofficial emulators, they are Nintendo releases. Banning them would be super dumb (and would never happen)

[DeathBasket]

Some points

To me it seems more arbitrary to allow some unofficial emulators and not others, than it does to ban emulators.

This makes sense. I am still against banning emulator though but I think the distinction should be between software/hardware instead of official/unofficial.

Emulator naturally does not always function as the official releases do, and it affects times.

Official or not, emulated games don't play the same as N64 anyway. I feel like this can't be used as an argument against (PC) emulators when the majority of 'wr' and close times on the leaderboards are played on VC for the sole reason that N64 times can't compete with there being less lag, faster loading zones, faster pausing, etc. in the VC releases because of inaccurate emulation.
Having N64 and emulator on the same leaderboards actually encourages people to play emulator because it is easier to get a better time (not to mention easier to access). It also doesn't make a lot of sense when a even top player on the original hardware couldn't get close to the times people can get with an emulator.

If time was put in to making a standardized ZSR approved emulator, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it until i saw it, but it's a cool idea.

Also, VC/GC are not unofficial emulators, they are Nintendo releases. Banning them would be super dumb (and would never happen)

I agree that having a standard emulator that people can use is a good idea but I can't see it ever being enforceable. People will play what they want. Again, I don't agree with banning emulators. I do think that people should stop having the double standard of "VC is good because it's official but PJ64 sucks" because both are pretty inaccurate (PJ64 is actually more accurate sometimes lol). If emulators are going to be banned it should be all or nothing, anything in between is adding unnecessary arbitrary rules that we shouldn't need.

Sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you or anything. I'm not, I'm just showing another point of view and I find this discussion interesting.

[gamestabled]

If emulators are going to be banned it should be all or nothing, anything in between is adding unnecessary arbitrary rules that we shouldn't need.

Let me change one thing here:
If unofficial releases are going to be banned it should be all or nothing, anything in between is adding unnecessary arbitrary rules that we shouldn't need.

I don't think I made it any more arbitrary, if anything I think I made it less arbitrary. I think the majority at this point would agree that all official releases should be allowed, and being official trumps being inaccurate (Yes, even the iQue). The matter is whether PJ64 should be taken off the leaderboards, which is both inaccurate and unofficial.

Sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you or anything. I'm not, I'm just showing another point of view and I find this discussion interesting. Smiley

This is a good discussion!

Edit: one more thing

Having N64 and emulator on the same leaderboards actually encourages people to play emulator because it is easier to get a better time (not to mention easier to access). It also doesn't make a lot of sense when a even top player on the original hardware couldn't get close to the times people can get with an emulator.

Maybe I'm just not seeing your point, but except for it being easier to access, these sound like reasons to ban emulator?