Q&A Ganondoor/Gohma Hover Trick Help Thread

[Xeno.]

Mh... ok then i try it with Links house again, if it don´t work I should start a new game and don´t save & quit in the deku tree.

[mzxrules]

Did I only have to pause in my house , unpause and do the glitch? Or I have to save in the house?
I have done the first and get in Ganonstower, see Link and can´t move 

You have to pause the game within Link's house, then perform the glitch each time you reset the game. Also, what language are you playing the game in?

[Jbop]

I used GC PAL and only pausing in Link's House was required. The house of twins is only required in JP 1.1 IIRC.

It's also required for German and maybe French iirc.

[Xeno.]

It worked now thank you all. 
 @ mzxrules
I play on german.

[geraggh34]

Yeah it should still be possible to beat the game. You can get the hylian shield as adult. You need hover boots for adult DoT skip though. I'm not entirely sure what your goal is, but if you think it'd be easier to just start a new game, then it's probably a good idea.

my goal is just to run my first successful sny% run. ive gotten all of the glitches for ganondoor and on MM got my way to the second block of STT (im good at hovering off flat ground with bombs then a chu but not with two bombs. the chu runs off the block).

i decided to try a different route in OoT and got in this pickle.

EDIT: im playing on wii vc btw kinda why ganondoor is annoying? even though ive mastered dekubaba megasidehop

[KaizoMK]

I posted this in the wrong thread, here's the conversation so far

I can do ocarina items perfectly anywhere else, but for some reason whenever I backflip into the blue warp in Gohma's lair and try to OI I just draw my sword and walk in.  Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?

You are most likely doing something in the setup wrong and landing too far in the warp

This, and/or you're doing OI too slowly. There's a slightly smaller window for doing OI into a blue warp than there is if you're just doing it normally to play a song.

I'm still struggling with it.  Sometimes I just draw my sword and walk in, but I've also had it so I pull the bugs out, which keeps me broken from the warp, but takes up too much time and so I get warped.

I think when I just pull the bugs out, it means I'm doing OI too late, and not getting the sword input in.  I thought pulling my sword out meant I was doing it too soon (cutting off the input of the bottle somehow) but I also tested doing OI really fast and I can do it even if I do it immediately after backflipping.  

I'm definitely not landing too far in, considering I'm landing in it at the very outer cusp of the port and still failing somehow, and I've tried two different setup methods to the letter.  I figure it has to be my input or timing somehow, but I have no idea how to change it.  Thoughts or insight?

EDIT:  I figured it out.  The window for OI starts pretty much on the same frame as you begin your backflip, and I really have been starting way too late and thus haven't been getting OI in fast enough.  Thanks for the tips!

[geraggh34]

I'm having trouble with Ganondoor at the moment. i do the 8 backflip method and then oi and hold right. when the weird camera zoom out/in ends i hit b (still holding right) walk a few steps, i think its 4 with the backflip method. and then throw my deku nut immediately hold z and left and i end up going the opposite way of the door.

ive tried holding down during the OI also and rarely he'll go the right way and get stuck at the wall the hump is which puts me behind frame 1 or 5? not sure

anyways i cant figure out why link wont run in the correct direction after i hold z and left immediately after deku nut.

i haven't been able to do this once in the month ive tried and just did my first successfull any% no rba ww in the last two days  ><

everything ive been doing is on Wii VC so its a pain not having save states im tired of pausing at links house and doing and megasidehopping off the deku baba even though it took me an hour to get my first time and now i can do it at least every other try. what sucks is i pulled the double KO on ghoma for nothing

clearly my positioning before the backflips are wrong?

EDIT when i hold down it yields better results but i swear i take no more than four steps and i end up stuck at the wall beside the hump. ill take a few more steps before i throw the DN

[nathanisbored]

I'm having trouble with Ganondoor at the moment. i do the 8 backflip method and then oi and hold right. when the weird camera zoom out/in ends i hit b (still holding right) walk a few steps, i think its 4 with the backflip method. and then throw my deku nut immediately hold z and left and i end up going the opposite way of the door.

I think you're mixing 2 setups here. After doing the 8 backflips you can either:
-hold right for a few steps, roll and target, hold left, slash, and then do an adjustment in the tunnel depending on what frame you got

OR

-hold down for a few steps, throw nut and target, hold left, sidehop twice, and then do an adjustment in the tunnel depending on what frame you got

The first setup doesn't require a nut and it's slightly faster, but I think the frame window is smaller and I don't remember all the adjustment frames (there might only be two).

The second setup is the easy method and it seems like the one you're trying to do. If after throwing the nut you sidewalk into the wall instead of the tunnel, you either threw the nut too early or late depending on whether the tunnel is in front of you or behind you. I think there's a 5-frame window for the nut timing to still reach the tunnel, and a few different adjustments depending on what frame you got.

[geraggh34]

I think you're mixing 2 setups here. After doing the 8 backflips you can either:
-hold right for a few steps, roll and target, hold left, slash, and then do an adjustment in the tunnel depending on what frame you got

OR

-hold down for a few steps, throw nut and target, hold left, sidehop twice, and then do an adjustment in the tunnel depending on what frame you got

The first setup doesn't require a nut and it's slightly faster, but I think the frame window is smaller and I don't remember all the adjustment frames (there might only be two).

The second setup is the easy method and it seems like the one you're trying to do. If after throwing the nut you sidewalk into the wall instead of the tunnel, you either threw the nut too early or late depending on whether the tunnel is in front of you or behind you. I think there's a 5-frame window for the nut timing to still reach the tunnel, and a few different adjustments depending on what frame you got.

Thanks a lot!! I was getting them mixed up I did the oi roll sword sidestep and got it

Now I'm on phase two of ganon picked the master sword up and have hit him about 25 times with isg. What's wrong? I could have killed him three times over by now

[geraggh34]

You need to make sure you store jumpslash damage before the fight/phase.
http://zeldaspeedruns.com/oot/tech/power-crouch-stabbing
(ISG has the same power as a crouch stab)

thank you so much!! im so proud of myself did any% no rba no ww last night. and tried ganondoor today once i successfully got it i got to ganon and killed him first try.

damn it feels good

[nathanisbored]

thank you so much!! im so proud of myself did any% no rba no ww last night. and tried ganondoor today once i successfully got it i got to ganon and killed him first try.

damn it feels good

lol no problem, i love that feeling

[geraggh34]

I plan on using an emulator soon just got practice. I'm playing wii vc and it sucks not having save states when I'm learning.

Now I'm stuck at STT in MM I do the first block skip. I tried wierdshot and game froze and picture messed up. Trying to find an alternative

edit: ugh still having problems with ganondoor im trying to get it consistently. sometimes after i do OI the angle im facing before cancelling OI is the wrong way. i also usually am over the black patch or on the hump and i go to the right corner z targer wall turn 180 z target get to edge of door let go of z spam a. i almost always end up at the deku cutscene. i got it twice today but am not sure what i did different.

[geraggh34]

I'm thinking about getting the hylian shield for my practicing. wii VC + burnt deku shield + no save states make me want to punch a hole through my tv

could anyone possibly explain the frame adjustments for me on ganondoor over the hump? i use the roll slash method and usually am at 4, 3, or 2 i go over the black patch on the hump, crossing over the black patch, or cross the hump under the black patch.

it seems like i only get it on 3. i usually go to the top right corner z targer the wall 180 z target and then get to the edge of the door. 8/10 i get deku cutscene the other times is ganons castle. i rarely go right back to the basement room

[KaizoMK]

How do you side-hop and then jump-slash in the direction you side-hopped in?

EDIT:  Also, I just did ganondoor after double KO'ing on Gohma, and it seems to have worked except it's bugged, as if I had reset the game and thus the cutscene modifier.  Except I didn't.  Does saving the game act as its own cutscene bychance?  Otherwise what else could have caused this?

[mzxrules]

How do you side-hop and then jump-slash in the direction you side-hopped in?

EDIT:  Also, I just did ganondoor after double KO'ing on Gohma, and it seems to have worked except it's bugged, as if I had reset the game and thus the cutscene modifier.  Except I didn't.  Does saving the game act as its own cutscene bychance?  Otherwise what else could have caused this?

Cutscene pointer, not modifier.

There are two important components to wrong warping: the cutscene pointer, and the data that the cutscene pointer is actually pointing to (i.e. a cutscene).

The cutscene pointer is set when viewing a certain type of cutscene. The bulk of the cutscenes that set the cutscene pointer before being played are listed here but to give you the short version, there are only two likely cutscene pointer values to get when performing Ganondoor:

• Deku Tree Intro Cutscene
• Title Screen Cutscene (really only the one part in Hyrule Field as the other parts require manipulation to get as a last cutscene)

The only way a different cutscene pointer could be set would be if you were to enter the Deku Tree, triggering the Deku Tree Intro, then leave and go to other parts of the world. A fairly unlikely scenario.

Now according to my theories on wrong warping...

Saving, Dying, Watching Gohma's fight, puzzle stuff do not set the cutscene pointer value. They can in some instances change what value the cutscene pointer is set to, but these cutscenes happen to load in the same spot in memory every time so they don't.

Thus what remains is the data that the cutscene pointers point to.

If you watched the Deku Tree Intro Cutscene last (cutscene pointer is pointed to that cutscene), then the outcome of a successful ganondoor wrong warp will always be the same because the cutscene pointer ends up pointing to the same set of data each time. That is to say that if one outcome happens on version x, that outcome will always occur with version x, and an outcome on version y will always occur in version y, but outcome x isn't necessarily the same as outcome y.

If you save and quit or reload a file from a save, you'll end up with the Title Screen Cutscene. This cutscene sets the cutscene pointer such it points to a spot in ram where files related to pausing will load in some cases. This how the pause trick came to be discovered.