MST Route Discussion

[benstephens1000]

You do not need silver gauntlets. I agree with Lttp. Block skip is faster than pushing the block. However mirror shield early is worth it. It's not even that hard.

Just attempted a run. Gave up 2 hours in. It was atrocious

[LttpMmOot]

You do not need silver gauntlets. I agree with Lttp. Block skip is faster than pushing the block. How we mirror shield is worth it. It's not even that hard.

also means skip watching the cutsence twice if you do decide to skip gaunlets only have to watch it once which also makes up for block skip save 30 seconds possibly more if you dont mess up on block skip once

[r0bd0g]

Warning. Useless wall of text ahead. None of it is exactly necessary of a reply, so don't feel obliged to just because my wall is so big, lol.

About wrong warping into cutscenes, uh, for each area in the game, there are only two cutscenes you can warp into, depending on whether you used deku/dc to warp to that area or if you used fire to warp to that area. There are known two cutscenes that you could warp to that could function as a DoT skip. The first is to the temple of time using the fire temple warp (you could set FW in a lot of places maybe, but Market->ToT is the obvious one). This plays the door of time opening cutscene. I mean, not exactly at DoT skip, but still. The other is to the cutscene map (Kokiri Forest->House of Twins is one) which plays the light medallion cutscene if you use the fire temple warp. After the CS you will probably be child link inside the MS room, but maybe you would become and adult (either way you do get the light medallion). If not you might have to watch the light medallion CS again when you pull MS. I'm not sure if these warps have been proven not to crash on 3D. Obviously the problem is that both of these would require NG+ Hammer, doing Fire as child, and doing a difficult wrong warp with RI. Serenade and Prelude are both not reachable using current wrong warp methods.

I wonder about maybe just setting FW somewhere and making a half-hearted attempt to skip all the adult cutscenes. It'll take a couple seconds every warp to put down an attempt and if you get lucky once you could make that time back and then some. It might be worth it for you guys to give RI CS skips a few attempts to see if you can pull them off. According to MZX (this was with normal OoT, but it's probably not changed), there's a multiple frame window to warp w/ FW just as the screen is almost completely white, for adult warps.

I was wondering though about where you would warp to from fire temple. It would be nice if somebody could prove that warping into an area that doesn't play a cutscene were possible on 3DS, but nobody's proven that yet as far as I can tell. It's looking like you will have to warp into a cutscene, if you do try to CS skip the fire temple CS. I can't really see a cutscene that you would actually want to warp to, so I was thinking maybe just warp to the temple of time and watch the door of time opening again, which, IIRC, is really short if you've already opened the door. If you're doing fire temple last, the light arrow cutscene should be waiting for you. I'm not sure which cutscene will play but it's a possibility that the light arrow cutscene will play instead and you won't have to watch an extra cutscene at all.

Trying to think of what other cutscenes it might be possible to wrong warp to (but probably aren't better than the ones you're using already) are:
- Saria's Song. That can't save time because you, for the most part, need Saria's before you can WW and even then it wouldn't really skip anything, especially with having to watch it twice.
- The exit list says that Spirit Temple has cutscenes and that it should be possible to wrong warp into them but, I have no idea what those cutscenes are, and when people have wrong warped to spirit temple before, nobody mentioned anything playing.
- Nabooru Defeated CS in the Spirit Temple Boss Room. I'm not really sure where you can wrong warp to this from; possibly Spirit->Spirit Boss Room is the only way (the exit list suggests there's an entrance to Kokiri Forest that could work, but it's hard to say for sure if that exit is reachable, what with the wrong warp table (this cutscene isn't even on it) being so incomplete -- possibly it's the grotto, which wouldn't be possible to use, or possibly it was tested and crashed but could be possible somehow). Even if it were possible to reach somehow, you would need a DoT skip in order to WW to the cutscene as adult so for to beat the boss. It could maybe be useful if the Kokiri Forest entrance, whatever it is, is found to work, since you could just savewarp and be in the Spirit Temple.
- All 6 Medallion CS in the Chamber of Sages. By default this cutscene brings you to Dessert Colossus after it finishes. I assume if you beat Shadow Temple after spirit, it would take you do the graveyard instead. The problem with this is that the only known warp to it is infinite falling OoB. There's another entrance to the chamber of sages that should be possible to wrong warp to from a Temple of Time entrance, but who knows what entrance that is. There are a couple of entrances that would only be possible to use as a FW point on the 3DS version (first becoming adult, or after dropping the master sword), but they would require DoT skip since you would have to use Deku/DC to reach that cutscene.
- Door of Time opening / Light Medallion CS, using the fire temple, as I mentioned already. Just from glancing over the list, I think you've probably already got the best two cutscenes to use, but maybe I've missed something.

There are some exits that are only possible as child (to/from the guard house with the pots, owls, that sort of thing) that could possibly lead to unexpected places. Setting FW after taking the owl to kakariko and also setting FW inside the pot house are things that I'm curious about. If Owl->Kak leads to Nocturne it could be a little faster than setting it at HF->Kak (EDIT: this leads to Lon Lon, but, try exiting the house where Talon sleeps -- it should be closer than the main entrance). Since it's not the main entrance to Kakariko, though, it's more likely to crash, even if that's where it leads. The pot house because I see on the exit list something called "Lots O Pots" (that house was the only thing I could think of that that might be -- possibly it's the same as the poe house though) and it should link to the Spirit Temple entrance that has the mysterious non-existent cutscenes listed after it.

[benstephens1000]

R0bd0g, I was also curious about some of those potential wrong warps that you mentioned. I might test some of new warps in a few days. Fire temple early might also be something to look into at the moment. If we can finish Jabu Jabu,  warp back to lost woods, enter goron city, climb DM and enter fire temple through DMC we could get there pretty fast. This would give us another chance to perform another wrong warp without having to use RI. We could potentially do one of your Dot skips. This could skip the Zelda fleeing castle CS. However, if you did skip that cutscene, the water temple route my have to be tweaked and you'd have to preform the glitch in Dampe's grave where you exit the hookshot room and sidehop back in to get trapped and warp back to the beginning of the race considering that you wouldn't have the Song of Time. Lots of things to think about after reading this.

EDIT: woops looks like beating volvagia as young link would require a hammer on b... However, wrong warping as an adult in fire temple using RI could be helpful, but is certainly not necessary. We could add something to the route that would simply save time, and would not cause a failed run if you don't succeed.

[TaylorTotFTW]

Ben, you should idle in #zelda so you can be up to date with all the shit we talk about. Just have this in an open tab or something http://cbe004.chat.mibbit.com/?channel=%23zelda&server=irc.speeddemosarchive.com

[r0bd0g]

Owl->Kak WW's to Lon Lon.

That said, Talon Sleeping House->Kak is a little better than HF->Kak and it was tested to work so that's what I guess you'll be doing from now on.

[TaylorTotFTW]

Yeah, so I in the middle of a run, and when the spirit song cutscene ended, I quickly pressed B to return to the warp point. However, this resulted in the camera locking in front of link, me not being able to push any buttons on the touch screen and no button on the 3DS itself save for 'Home' had any effect. It was not frozen, because links eyes would blink occasionally and I still heard the gerudo music and sand sound effects playing, but I couldn't do anything. I suspect a few things may be responsible for this- 1: I had no magic. due to unforeseen circumstances in deku, I actually had to warp out mid boss fight (heh) and return with adequate supplies. I know you can return to warp points with no magic, but still. 2: Maybe I pressed B too early? I don't know, I did press it almost exactly as I got control over link. Regardless, that was really weird and I hope it doesn't happen again      

EDIT: Did I just softlock my 3DS?
EDIT2: God damnit I softlocked my 3DS.

[Pedalpowertoast]

The amazing speedruns of TaylorTotFails anyway, anything new? Has Tom revealed his secret yet? Cant use mibbit irc on Ipad well 

[benstephens1000]

So close! 3:50:01. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go wallow in my own misery for the rest of the day

[Pedalpowertoast]

How do you prove your time? It its ok im going to use my phones timer. Ill take a photo after beating the game with the time next to it. Ofcourse i cant prove that i didnt wait and pause the timer before/after playing. (who would seriously wait three hours for a timer to pause it)

[benstephens1000]

Until capture devises come out, there really isn't a way to prove it unless you want to record it all on your phone
Just do a run a say your time. We're all trustworthy here.

[Pedalpowertoast]

We're all trustworthy here.

Ok..my time is 0:01 with this new amazing sequence break which makes Ganon come to Links tree house, give him a hug and say "Link, I realized that I can't become the ruler of the world and obtain the triforce with my time traveling skills, so take these stones, medallions and flags that show you have completed everything in this game. Im sorry." after that Link goes back to sleep and the text "This is the real happy end" appears
Im amazed mzx hasnt said/found anything about this. It might be possible that this is something Grezzo put in the 3DS version I was surprised by this SO much I forgot to take a picture but I can draw one Hopefully we can dig inside this 3DS game sometime and see if there is anything else hidden inside.

Also a note, in my 56 min run which was on Gohma (I know it sucks) i had to reset because you cant use infinite deku sticks trick if you only have one

[benstephens1000]

Pedalpower,  you can do infinite deku stick with one stick. On Gohma you need to get close to her before you hit her. This usually does the trick for me.
 

[Pedalpowertoast]

Link puts the stick away if you dont have more than 1 dekustick (or you cant attack with it, dont remember) and ive done it on gohma 3 times in a row.

[benstephens1000]

Wait Gamestabled, didn't you say that you had a way to skip the gate in the shadow temple with a big sword? My memory could be fooling me but I swear I remember you saying something of the sort.