OoT3D: 100% Segmented Discussion [NG+ Saw]

[Norkix]

Superswims do still work, but doing one from the fishing pond only gets you about 1/3 of the way to the Fire Arrow Islet. I don't know about the time of day in your route, but in mine, it would still be about noon when you got there.

*facepalm*

Hey Norkix, there's this cool thing called the Sun's Song and since time resets after doing Jabu, you could totally get the FAI GS in Child 1.

Well duh! *facepalmfacepalmfacepalm*

[r0bd0g]

No idea what my time of day is. I was thinking you'd just use Sun's if you had to. We're at LH so we might as well clear it out, was my thought. The last time ToD was set was after the Sun's Song CS. I doubt that it will become day before LH, but I have doubts that you'll be able to get over to the fire arrows platform before morning.

[benstephens1000]

Hey R0b, I have a couple of things that I noted from your route. These are just quick notes I took. I'm not quite done with them yet though.

20. You can peahat HESS. Not sure if it is faster.
46. no owl skip
60. What is switch trick?
127. Is Zelda's letter trick
180. You have to push the block I think
250. I believe spike trap jump still works
263. I'm gonna say that the clip is faster
287. Or... I know this wastes a little time, but we could possibly just put on the tunic if all else fails
308. There is a song of time block clip that might be faster. Not sure though

[Norkix]

Switch trick is when you backflip onto a pressure-sensitive (blue) switch and pull out an item like Zelda's Letter or Magic Beans just before you land. This causes the cutscene from pulling out the item to interrupt the cutscene of the switch being depressed, but the unlocking cutscene still plays. If the door is close enough, you can run to it and get through before the game realizes that the switch is not depressed. It's most notable use is in IJJB, in which it is used to skip Big Octo. It's similar to what you do for FWWW, except with a cutscene item and you backflip onto a switch.

[r0bd0g]

20 - It's not. Doing a HESS won't make the Cucco hatch any faster. I even go and waste a bit of daylight by getting all the chain rupees.
46 - You mean you can't skip the owl coming from SFM? It was possible on normal OoT. You have to get the slow walk into the loading zone so that you don't walk into the trigger right away, I think? Normally they would do a ground jump but IDK why the alternating sword/stick think wouldn't work? It doesn't matter b/c this segment is too hard.
60 - In the baby dodongo corridor there's a switch you push an armos onto. I tried it on normal OoT and I was able to skip having to push that armos, but who knows what's different and what isn't.
127. OK.
180. It's tight on normal OoT, especially as child? You're sure you can't make it? If the bars just barely close, maybe if you backflipped out IDK.
250. OK.
263. You're remembering that if you clip you have to wait for the wall to close in before you can leave the room? I doubt you could reorder the rooms to end the seg here or FW out or something.
287. But then you have to play through the rest of the game with that ugly tunic on. :p You know, if I decide to split shadow, I have no idea how to go about taking damage for this.
308. The normal OoT 100% route says to play the song of time. Maybe it was something they were debating or maybe they timed it or maybe the route is in error, IDK. I went with it, anyway.

Thanks for the input!

I was thinking about a route where you'd wait until you have BGS to do forest and realized why that couldn't work. I need to have the bow before broken sword to get started on the Big Poes. Still no idea whether or not to split shadow. I guess I'll split it if anybody can think of a good way to take damage between going adult and the bolero cs skip. The shadow goop is probably slow too but everything else I think of sounds worse.

[r0bd0g]

Today I realized that I somehow am getting the BGS before the broken sword, lol. Oops. I'll untangle that mess but it'll need a new big poe route. I'm not sure I'll be able to find a good route that has 2 free bottles for ice cavern. I want to know if I'm safe to bottle-dupe my deku nuts in this game? I know exactly where I'll get a drop to get my nuts back in case they're needed for Volvagia.

[TheWayfaringFox]

You can bottle dupe your deku nuts with the backflip method as long as there's zero of them. You can also use a bottled fish and bombchus against Volvagia if you feel like it.

[Norkix]

whats this about Volvagia?

[r0bd0g]

I'm hoping to shield swipe dupe the nuts, actually? It'd be too slow to empty them out. Anyway what I needed to know is if you can get nuts back in your inventory by picking up a drop like you can in normal OoT. If I dupe over the nuts and can't get them back, I can't get 100%.

[TheWayfaringFox]

You can get the deku nuts back, I just tested it.

[benstephens1000]

whats this about Volvagia?

Basically there are 2 Volvagia's: the one you hit on the head and the one that flies around. While either of these 2 Volvagia's are in the lava holes, you can put bombs on top of the holes they went into to damage them. You can also use chus so a fish can be used to blow up the chus.

[Norkix]

WHY WAS I NOT TOLD OF THIS BEFORE

[benstephens1000]

WHY WAS I NOT TOLD OF THIS BEFORE

It's pretty new, even on console I kinda just found out about it from R0b. I knew there was a strategy with bombs but I sidn't know how it worked

[r0bd0g]

http://pastebin.com/AANNr5Xq

Unless I made another really dumb mistake, then I probably won't be posting any more routes. (There are small mistakes for sure -- I see already where I didn't count the rupees you get on the first Poe drop-off.)

Changes:
- Fixed a dumb mistake with supposedly doing the adult trade quest out of order. Had to reroute the big poes as a result. Not sure if the big poe route is going to be any good.
- Opted to move the Fire Arrow platform GS to Child 2 on the assumption that you can't get that GS quickly enough to get it in Child 1.
- Changed the other child WW to go to the Silver Gauntlet's CS. It's close whether or not that's worth it. I think there's a good chance it is. I didn't originally think it was but then I realized you would never have to watch the Desert Colossus intro CS.
-- Had to change the Fish/Bug route as a result. You have to get a fish from a grotto now, which is kinda slow. I was able to improve the bugs route by a bit.
-- I was also able to save some seconds on the Fire CS Skip as a result of how we'll go to Nayru's after Spirit Temple instead of before.
- Noticed a way to save a few seconds by using less FW in adult Lost Woods.

[Norkix]

I'll look over it on Friday. May take some notes as well, given the generally positive feedback you've gotten. From what I've seen just from skimming through, it seems that you've made a very good effort on the Big Poe route, but again, I only skimmed. I might steal some dungeon routes as well; a few of the dungeons can definitely benefit from your segmented approach. I'll have to do a little bit of research into tricks you mention that I don't know about. For example, this shieldswipe thing and the method for getting the Skulltulas behind the red rocks on DMT. I also like your routing of Child 1. If you don't mind me continuing to rip you off, I might try to rebuild my own Child 1 based on yours.

There are really two things that I see affecting the final time of a seg'd run: How much time the NG+ Saw saves and how much time flipping back and forth through time saves. The dungeon routes will probably be very similar (excepting Shadow, since I've decided to do that after getting Nocturne legit or at least sometime after Forest so I can grab the Quiver upgrade in KV), but the overworld routes will be vastly different due to NG+ skipping the trading quest routing entirely.

I commend you for writing that entire route purely from theory. I'd do your testing for the night/day stuff, but it appears I may have some massive revision to do. I hope Fox or maybe LttpMmOot will run through it for you. Once again, major kudos, r0bd0g!