New SS Route

[Jiano]

Yo dudes, since I have to play TP for this marathon on Tuesday, and probably any future ones, I need a new route with the new tricks and shiet. I haven't played TP since April and haven't really kept up with the new finds. I'm hoping Logitech or someone can come in and give me the new route that uses Zora Armor. Goods hit.

[logitechsdaz]

New SS route

1. Skip Ordon days 1 and 2 (skip fishing rod, slingshot).
2. I think eventually Ordon sword and shield skip should be attempted during SS, but go ahead and get those items.
3. Play like you did with your old SS up until beating Darkhammer.
4. After the Darkhammer fight, warp out, warp to area close to Castle Town, turn into human, enter Castle Town, trigger the Telma escort.
4. Use bombs from lent bomb bag to beat King Bulblin, LJA over the 1st King Bulblin trigger close to Kakariko village, get Zora armor.
5. Warp to Lake Hylia, get box, do Midna dive OoB, enter Lakebed.
6. In room before Deku Toad, use B&C to break the rock (this is faster than emptying the rest of the stolen bomb bag and getting water bombs).
7. With Zora armor on, you can still use the iron boots trick to skip Morpheel throwing you off its back.
8. Use B&C to break a barricade in the desert and clip through the 2nd barricade as wolf Link.

I mentioned this on SDA awhile back I think, but the new route only saves around 01:15 and there are still risks involved. The 01:15 saved assumes that you don't take too much time pushing the bulblins to save Talo and have a near perfect King Bulblin fight with bombs. The timing can be frustrating. It normally takes 3 bombs (sometimes it is possible with 2 bombs). If it takes more than 7 bombs or so, all the time is eaten up basically. If you don't skip the 1st King Bulblin trigger with the LJA, then that will eat up most of the time saved also. Mess up on both those things, and you could lose several minutes over your old speedrun. However, having said that, Lakebed will be easier to deal with having Zora armor. Morpheel fight will be faster, no Eldin grotto for fishing for bombs, underwater Zant fight is faster, etc.

King Bulblin fight       
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh9bjQHoREI

Skip trigger with LJA 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr2CQsvYBHo

Break rock with B&C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1CTW15hOs

[Jiano]

Yeah, even if it ends up being a bit slower, I'd rather go with Zora Armor for this to be safe. Any chance there's an easier way to skip Day 1 & 2? I probably just gonna do it old school. Also is there a video of the dive in Lake Hylia?

[logitechsdaz]

Yeah, even if it ends up being a bit slower, I'd rather go with Zora Armor for this to be safe. Any chance there's an easier way to skip Day 1 & 2? I probably just gonna do it old school. Also is there a video of the dive in Lake Hylia?

There's a faster way to skip day 1 and 2, but unfortunately it is harder imo. I've only gotten this to work a couple of tries out of around 15. The bokoblin falls through the ground randomly and dies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9UASsNn02w

With the box just go into 1st person camera mode, talk to the Zora, and wait a few seconds before exiting the Zora dialogue to make sure you get OoB. I've found that if I exit the dialogue too soon, I'll be toward the bottom of Lake Hylia but not quite OoB. You could just talk to Falbi very close to the edge and dive OoB, but it would waste some rupees and probably isn't faster. It is also somewhat difficult to get this to work quickly imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdTpzGuj8ws

Also, with regards to the 01:15 time I came up with, I had forgotten about one thing...I had measured the time vs. a scenario with no Zora armor with a near perfect Morpheel fight with 2 water bombs. So in reality, getting Zora armor could save more than 01:15 provided that you get a decent enough King Bulblin bomb fight and skip the trigger with LJA.

[logitechsdaz]

Getting zora armor is faster than I initially thought. I watched a single segment stream with sword/shield skip, zora armor. Without zora armor, you have to get fishing rod,
which also means 1st goat herding, slingshot, etc. The speedrunner was ahead of Jiano at the start of 2nd goat herding by 3:41.

If a no zora armor speedrunner decided to skip sword/shield, he would still be 3:41 behind. After that, the zora armor and no zora armor route is the same until after exiting Snowpeak with B&C. Initially, this part was the hardest part to time. I had to make a lot of assumptions awhile back because there was no single segment run with zora armor to compare. Now there is. With zora armor, and assuming it takes 5 bombs to beat king bulblin on bridge (it can be done in 3), by the time a speedrunner would enter lakebed, it is possible to be ahead by 1:32. After water tunnel in lakebed, 2:13 ahead. By the start of deku toad fight, 2:18 ahead.

Now assuming morpheel takes 1:34 to beat with no zora armor (which would require 2 water bombs in 2nd phase in single segment lol...yeah right), vs. a less than optimal morpheel fight with zora armor, 2:25 ahead. Since the no zora armor run would have had that crazy morpheel fight, then no need to refill water bombs from chest in 1st room in CitS. After underwater zant, 2:42 ahead.

So a less than optimal zora armor SS run (5 bomb king bulblin fight + less than optimal morpheel fight) should be at the very least 2:42 faster than a near perfect SS no zora armor run. This is assuming though
that the speedrunner can keep up with Jiano's pace throughout much of the game (forest temple, tears, arbiter's grounds, snowpeak, etc).

Also, the king bulblin bridge fight is just stupid with bombs. I can't seem to figure out a way to consistently beat him with 3 bombs (it usually takes me 6). I keep thinking there must be a pattern or some way to know exactly when to pull out the bomb and when to throw it.

[TLoZSR]

Getting zora armor is faster than I initially thought. I watched a single segment stream with sword/shield skip, zora armor. Without zora armor, you have to get fishing rod,
which also means 1st goat herding, slingshot, etc. The speedrunner was ahead of Jiano at the start of 2nd goat herding by 3:41.

If a no zora armor speedrunner decided to skip sword/shield, he would still be 3:41 behind. After that, the zora armor and no zora armor route is the same until after exiting Snowpeak with B&C. Initially, this part was the hardest part to time. I had to make a lot of assumptions awhile back because there was no single segment run with zora armor to compare. Now there is. With zora armor, and assuming it takes 5 bombs to beat king bulblin on bridge (it can be done in 3), by the time a speedrunner would enter lakebed, it is possible to be ahead by 1:32. After water tunnel in lakebed, 2:13 ahead. By the start of deku toad fight, 2:18 ahead.

Now assuming morpheel takes 1:34 to beat with no zora armor (which would require 2 water bombs in 2nd phase in single segment lol...yeah right), vs. a less than optimal morpheel fight with zora armor, 2:25 ahead. Since the no zora armor run would have had that crazy morpheel fight, then no need to refill water bombs from chest in 1st room in CitS. After underwater zant, 2:42 ahead.

So a less than optimal zora armor SS run (5 bomb king bulblin fight + less than optimal morpheel fight) should be at the very least 2:42 faster than a near perfect SS no zora armor run. This is assuming though
that the speedrunner can keep up with Jiano's pace throughout much of the game (forest temple, tears, arbiter's grounds, snowpeak, etc).

Also, the king bulblin bridge fight is just stupid with bombs. I can't seem to figure out a way to consistently beat him with 3 bombs (it usually takes me 6). I keep thinking there must be a pattern or some way to know exactly when to pull out the bomb and when to throw it.

Would getting zora armor still save time in a segmented route?

[logitechsdaz]

Would getting zora armor still save time in a segmented route?

It would probably waste at least 4 minutes. An optimal Telma escort might be able to be done in 6:30. You wouldn't get the Goron bomb bag. Morpheel could be done maybe 50 seconds faster at most with zora armor (vs. optimal no zora armor). Underwater zant could be done maybe 15 seconds faster at most. If getting the Goron bomb bag and a slower Morpheel and zant fight take up more than 6:30, than zora armor is faster. I think those things probably add up to no more than 2:30 at most.

[logitechsdaz]

Clip into lakebed on GCN. Saves around 28 seconds in a single segment speed run. Should save 15 seconds in 100% run (hoping this along with other timesavers don't mess up the night cycle for poes later on in a run).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3YRfz91-OY