ZSR Forums

So it's officially on the IL list now.

The rules are currently still under debate.



RULES:
Any% Starts at IGC entrance, ends at final blow on Ganondorf or Ganon.

100% Starts at IGC entrance. Must dispel the barrier by completing the six trials. You must also open all chests. Entering all rooms is NOT required. Ends at final blow to Ganondorf or Ganon.



Alrighty so we definitely need to add Inside Ganon's Castle to the IL list. It should start at the entrance of the castle and end at Ganondorf IMO (although it makes sense to have the end of the escape be the end also...).

I say:

Any% = Ganon's Castle entrance ---> final blow on Ganondorf (Technically you go outside of the castle after Ganondorf...).
100% = Every room entered and all chest opened + save sages  ---> final blow on Ganondorf.



Other options:

100% - No saving sages
Any% and 100% - The dungeon ends at Ganon, no Ganondorf.
Any% and 100% - The dungeon ends at the end of the escape, before Ganon.


What are your opinions on how the IL for Ganon's Castle should work?


EDIT: And to those that say Ganon's Castle shouldn't be counted as a dungeon: It's got a major dungeon item (gold gauntlets), Boss Key, and a major boss that has text saying his name. The only thing that GC lacks that other IL dungeons have is a map and compass (but in my opinion there's no map and compass because the dungeon is straight forward and doesn't need them).

i like the idea but for a 100% how will we show proof that we got everything.

Showing proof at the end isn't required, it's only recommended. It won't be hard to confirm all items got... and you basically have to enter every room (aside from secret fairy area) to save all sages.

true you have a point

I say Ganon should be beat because after Ganondorf is beat, you still have to exit the crumbling castle.

And BTW the dungeon is called Inside Ganon's Castle. Ganon's Castle is the exterior map :P

And we need Ice Cavern, Bottom of the Well, Thieves' Hideout and Gerudo Training Ground. Ice Cavern and Bottom of the Well would probably end after killing the Dead Hand or White Wolfos, Thieves' Hideout would end after freeing all of the carpenters, Gerudo Training Ground would end with collecting the Ice Arrows. Whether you need to exit these dungeons on your own is debatable (I think we should since you get warped out of the main dungeons). Whether to get Lens of Truth and Iron Boots in an any% is also debatable - I say no since you don't get the Heart Containers from bosses in any%.

Thieves' Hideout should be one category; the routes for any% and 100% would be exactly the same. We would have pick a standard entrance for everyone to start from. Gerudo Training Ground differs based on how many keys you get.

You're right, it's called INSIDE Ganon's Castle... when you beat Ganondorf you go OUTSIDE the castle. So Ganondorf should definitely be the end.

Well Inside Ganon's Castle =/= Ganon's Tower, so it should end when you enter the tower :P

I say no 100% Ganon Castle IL that includes saving sages. We should have an IL that is when you start at the tower till blow to ganondorf. The each trial should have their own IL.

thats not a bad idea, i wouldnt mind doing trial ILs.

I also think you should just have to kill gannondorf for the castle IL

You go back inside the castle several times during the escape. If you don't want to end it with beating Ganon, then you should at least end it when walking out the front entrance of the castle.

Also, it's called Inside GANON's Castle. Not Ganondorf's. :P

Yeah adding the escape makes sense I guess, and have it end when you exit the castle's entrance...

I voted Ganon; seems odd to not have that be the final ending to me.

I would vote against each trial as it's own IL though; they are all really short.

^

I vote for only the defeat of Ganondorf. Watching the climb down the tower and the final Ganon fight is kind of boring, plus your fighting quite a bit of lag at this stage of the game.

I don't know why, but I always think of ganondorf as the final boss of the tower, and then the escape and ganon fight are some kind of extra event+battle.  Plus, you aren't really in the tower anymore, so yeah.

Is the secret fairy + business scrub shop a separate room, or is it just part of the main chamber?  Would you have to enter it for 100%?

There is two ways I see it.

1. Do all the trials and end on entering the room with Ganondorf, or landing the final blow on Ganon.
2. If the trials skip is being used, then it should definitley end on the final blow on Ganon.

Wait...there's a business scrub and fairies IGC? How did I not know about this?!?

cuz u r nub

Totally agree. Yeah, the secret room should definitely be required IMO.


Any% and 100% should always start and end at the same spot. Any% is still challenging and lasts about 4 minutes 20 seconds. No reason to lengthen it.

You freaking kids

end it when you kill dorf

It's not inside ganon's castle anymore when you start escaping

Besides, no one likes escape + ganon fight

Final blow to Ganon.

;_;

I say ganon

ganon definitely

it's part of the whole final dungeon sequence so it should definitely count.

Also voted Ganon.  For entertainment value, I think dorf would be fine since the rest would be really boring.  On the other hand, Ganon really does feel like where it ends.

Alright then. Ganon it is

final issue: What is required in 100%?

All trials
All trials + golden gauntlets
All trials + all chests (which includes freeze traps)

I would say the freeze traps count if the one in Spirit does.

All chests including freeze traps. You have to do those anyway for Spirit Temple 100%. IMO it doesn't make sense to skip them here.

All Trials + all chests. No brainer IMO. Freeze traps are chests too.

idk when i get the time ill try this

IMO it should just be doing the trials and end at entering the tower, no 100%, ganondorf or ganon.

Agreeing with this.

We should be focusing on the reason we are even making this IL: The trials. Adding Ganon is ruining it. I could maybe see having Ganondorf as the end, but Ganon just seems completely unnecessary.

Just add the ganondorf fight and it ends there.

Ganon has been voted as the ending dudes. It's not like Dorf + escape makes it too much harder anyway... Ganon has to be beat.

Popular opinion isn't necesarily the right option.

Think about it, what defines an OoT dungeon? Dungeon Map + Compass, get special item, use special item to get to boss (boss key for adult dungeons), fight boss. Castle don't have DM + C, but it has everything else including boss key. The dungeon should end when you defeat the boss, just like the rest of them, which is Ganondorf. Crumbling castle + Ganon is the ending of the game, not part of the dungeon itself.

Plus, what Jiano said x20. We want this so we can run trials without having to do a full MST, not so we can fight Ganon, which happens in every run.

pretty good points being brought up here

Yeah I agree with them. I respect the votes... but Dorf totally needs to be the end. The Escape + Ganon adds 9 minutes to the run... mostly cutscene and boring walking around. Plus the focus of 100% is the trials (doing the trials + dorf + 9 minutes more is just unrealistic for an optimized run). The escape + Ganon is almost always exactly the same every time they are done... ~1:34 in-game time for escape... SS to Ganon... zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I don't mind my IL being wasted, I can re-do it up to Dorf, no prob.

This is a good point

Well you could say that everything that takes place after the Boss Key door is the end of the game, since that door is the point of no return.

Actually I should check the map and see where/if the current location says Inside Ganon's Castle. If it turns out that the escape/Ganon is not part of Inside Ganon's Castle (or even the tower) then they shouldn't be in the IL. I think it might just say Ganon's Castle the whole way through though :-\ in which case IMO the IL should include every location in which a savewarp would result in being placed at the entrance to Inside Ganon's Castle or the entrance of the tower.

I think the game considers the tower part of the dungeon, or at least a dungeon within a dungeon, because exiting the tower doesn't display the Inside Ganon's Castle nameplate. So unless the map says differently it should be in there.

Assdammit why must this be so confusing?

I'm not quite sure it matters what the game considers. I mean, this is a site dedicated to glitchfinding and speedrunning, after all, both of which probably weren't taken into consideration much when making OoT. So, I think we should focus more on what makes sense rather than titles that the designers lobbed to certain areas of the castle. Cuz after all, we're going against what the designers intended anyway.

And what makes sense, to me at least, is to end it after Ganondorf. Dungeon Item, Boss Key, Boss fight, plain and simple, and without the boring, simple and long escape route. And like it was stated before, it's likely that the only reason there's no map or compass is because the dungeon has a simple layout.

IMO, a new poll should be made, since its so close (it's not even a 60% majority) and because new arguments have been brought up. And I'm pretty sure I accidentally voted wrong, lol

I think the Ganondorf ending should just be put in the rules.