ZSR Forums

Discuss stuff.

Tricks that are already known seems like it would be good here (http://zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?game=tww), WW could definitely use some more pages.

Good point. I'll finish this list in a moment and leave it temporarily until there's videos for all shortcuts. It'd also help if people could tell me if I missed any or if they'd be willing to make videos.

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yx6roR6PnQ

I didn't know about this. Everyone else probably does though.

Oh that's actually a neat variation of the soup glitch, though  usually the one we're talking about is just using the tingle tuner strategy with the soup, and witch it for a different item like hookshot or something like that, and the soup still remains. That's pretty neat though, distributing even more of it.
Edit: This is a 'better' video of the bomb house shortcut http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritEgCIj5Xc
Rock skip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQaBDxD5His
I'm gonna make a couple videos today probably, been trying the chu parry for like, 45 minutes now and only got it once :/ figured it's the only time I'm NOT recording.
-edit- nvm, it's not even worth my time to get that chu parry >:[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUE9tAGGTHI&feature=related

I was looking at this and i've decided it's pretty useless for a speedrun. Thanks for the vids.

Hurray! I recorded the Chu Parry. I'll upload it later :)

EDIT:

I can't find the BiT glitch anywhere. Has it been removed from YT? If so i'll upload that with swordless Link too.

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L6CvR91IZo&feature=related

Glitch or AR?

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLoHBiQyRWA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0CJkNHxxc0&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUO7rbSw8Ik&feature=channel_page

EDIT:

The chu parry is definately slower than climbing the ladder >_> Unless ofcourse there's a faster way of doing it.

No, when you look at it (even following unreal's actual instructions on the SDA forums), it's slower due to the setup. Not worth it.

I actually don't know if anyone actually recorded the BiT and its effects... That'd be great if you could get a vid of it.
and swordless link is not complete without showing people that you can reverse the tetra skip and still not have your sword for a swordless ToG ;)

So there is a swordless Link vid atm? It just doesn't show all effects?

No, I'm saying I don't think there's any video related to it other than tetra text skip.

I hate splitting vids or putting 2 together. They always lose quality when I do it :/

I'll use Toiletpro's FF segment as a reference in the vid... when I make it.

Haha at how some of that first post is organized (had to say that). WHAT ABOUT LEDGE AND DOOR CLIP? Also no one will ever get wrong warp recorded, if it's ever pulled off again...

Man I forgot a lot of that swordless and the like causes, issues ect. It was not that long ago either D:

Wait wtf wrongwarp in TWW? stop pulling my leg :c

You damage boost off the shark thing as you enter the fade out scenewhen you return to Windfall during cursed night. When the quadrant loads back after the fade out, you are out of your boat in one of the 4 corners, like you would be after saving at sea. Needless to say you can't get to land in time and drown. And since the boat defaulted to D4 (ToG) thats where you respawn after drowning...

Has it been tested? like.. do you actually need to damage boost or can you just jump out of your boat into the fadeout? (or would he just swim back to the boat when you hit the loadzone?)

Oh but yet again, you'd need bombs for ToG... bummer

Well, you can sail normally to that quadrant anyways at that point in the game. Tested? I got it to work once, after only a few tries crazily enough. It's basically don't be in the boat when the screen finishes fading. Issue is you lose control once the fade out starts, to prevent issues like this from happening.

Sometimes you don't even get the fade out, may have some use in a segmented...

If you have no bombs Gohdan may give you some. He's the only reason you need bombs in ToG iirc.

Just to clarify, because I don't fully understand... You damage boost of a shark into the fadeout of Windfall Island during the cursed night and you will appear at one of the corners of the Great Sea, drown and warp to ToG without bombs?

I'm going to test this right now.

EDIT:

If this can be pulled off in a run, then doesn't that mean you don't need to place the pearls?

EDIT:

I thought the fade-out was on the way to WFI after the cutscene on GFI, but I must have been wrong because there was no fade-out. Where is it then?

It is on the way there as you thought, but like Sparkle said, sometimes the fadeout doesn't happen. I'd say it's near the lower bottom corner of the quadrant WFI's on.

Yeah, gohdan's the only part you actually need bombs for unless you're doing 100% then you'd need it for one of the walls to get a treasure chart. ;)
I might try to test this out myself too, by swimming into the fadeout rather than damage boosting. that seems like it would be a pain in the ass to set up

I've had no luck finding the fade-out spot. I think there's something that i'm missing. I mean in my normal playthroughs I remember getting the fade-out pretty much everytime. So it only makes sense that a direct path from GFI to WFI would activate it. I saved in the quadrent between GFI and WFI so idk if that did anything, but I don't think the fade-out is going to happen.

The fade out in question happened in TSA's run. Thats the only place I know of that has a fade out. I may have worded it wrong, but the tower is not there, if I remember correctly. It has been a while, but I would really kick myself for noticing, if I'm wrong...

No idea if Gohdan gives you bombs, but yeah it does make sense?  Someone with cheats go test it.

If there's no ToG, then you need bombs to get the 3rd pearl anyway. I see no reason why ToG would be there at that point though :/

I have had the fadeout in the past, multiple times. I have no idea what triggers it though. I think it's something earlier in the game. Maybe i'll copy what TSA does and see if I get it :/

Okay, I understand what Sparkle meant now: You get warped to the quadrant. You don't warp inside ToG.
But as you said, you get warped to D4, except ToG's in the quadrant to the right of that lol. You get warped to six-eye reef.

I'll try and get a video of the trick, got it in my first try surprisingly enough :) (not damage boosting, but damage boosting INTO it I got on my first try lmao)

EDIT: I cannot get the fadeout to happen when I start from Greatfish Island. I think that might be the problem

Awesome man. Now go see the insanity that is trying it again.

One of these tricks might be useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szqcnoDD7Wk&feature=player_profilepage

Edit:

Windfall Island cutscene skip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgsprfi3RLE

DRC: Jump past sidle ledges:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRSTtOXf1Ew

Forsaken Fortress OoB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn0k-LL8ZrA

The alternate DRC early boss key is slower then the older Bridge Jump method ZFG found, it looks like. Harder too. But still cool idea, much much easier than Unreal's original method. Awesome still, man.

Moblin SS so you jump off the stairs for Hyrule OoB? Cool idea, sadly that jumping off the stairs may get in the way of Moblin SSing there being faster, even in a TAS.

These are just my initial thoughts...

Nice finds. I didn't know about that method of DRCBKSC or the FF OoB, although I don't know if it is OoB. I tried to do that right angle jump in DRC and I could never get it either so thanks for the uploads.

EDIT:

I'm pretty sure I tried to leave FF at that point and was stopped by an invisible wall. Are you using NTSC version of WW?

Yeah I am. why? Do you think that they may have it fixed in other versions?


I find an easy way to know the timing (at least after you get burned) is, I hold L right away slash my sword ones so it hits the jar then jump slash then run over the the ledge and wait a second (or a little more) then jump off. it seems to work almost 1/3 of the time then.

I've also been trying the Lava cutscene skip seems like it's almost impossible. (I it to work I might just be doing them wrong)

And I guess I'll post this because I didn't post it in my last post.

LoZ WW hyrule path OoB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgnyrnJfjPo

I'm pretty sure escaping FF is NTSC only, but i'll test it eventually just to be sure.

Lava cutscene skip shouldn't be causing any problems. When you enter the room turn the camera very slightly left, then pick up a water pot, throw it and jump as soon as possible to where you threw it. You should notice a short pause, but no actual cutscene.

Cool find with the moblin slide.

EDIT:

Isn't there a glitch where you can throw a deku stick through to another room?

So I did some more videos... Well that's all.

DRC Jump slash over lava:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAVBpzh7lQY

LoZ WW Skip hookshot to Ganon's castle / Parry glitch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wHQ95Pb13I&feature=channel

Edit:

Door clip / OoB King of Red Lions:
Discovered by MrSparkle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohmgbx3BIVw

The "faster" Chu Parry seems only barely faster than the regular one. You have to side-hop, roll, pull out your sword without targetting or you'll hit the wall and waste time, jumpslash, which hits the wall and sends you back far enough for the parry command to appear and even then you don't get much time to react.

Climbing the ladder is the fastest way imo.

Here is a way to get to even higher heights.

backward/forward Bomb boost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UGx6qVWqRA

Doing the Backward Bomb Boost is much easier then doing
the forward bomb boost, but you don't go as high.

Edit:

Forbidden Woods tentacle maze skip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udoIuvz2L4c

Wrong Warp from Greatfish Island -> Windfall Island Fadeout
http://zeldaspeedruns.com/junk/wwww5.mp4
^NO SOUND WARNING OH NO DILEMMA DRAMA LLAMA etc etc

Doesn't seem to want to work.^

I finally got youtube to work my way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecw7451NUSM
Same trick, just in case the above link doesnt work out for you (e.g. Phazon)

nice one ani. so the easycap worked?

Yep, decent quality too :] Good for streaming on ustream and getting some practice runs recorded.

Sound dont work though :/

EDIT: Got a video of the WFI Intro skip effects
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MFmP4xyMCE

EDIT dos: Back in Time and Swordless all in one video (since they're related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBEgW7BCUnk

And a little damage glitch that's probably known, but I got a little bit of it anyways-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0J_623KyJ0

New speed trick in earth temple.

Stone chu switch skip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ScG_hUcro

It's really easy. And can be useful in SS.

I so sorry for not making moar WW pages. I might make some in a few days but I may not put any videos on the page because I have a really slow upload speed...

Woah, interesting thing you got there venick. Needs looking into...

Well think about it. it's tons easier than bomb boosting, and angling to do kazooie's method.it's nearly foolproof, and of course it's faster than traditional method.

I'm probably gonna use it in my SS' from now on.
Might do kazooie method for cool value though, who knows
Though if it wasn't for that stupid little ledge thing on the floor, rolling would be a more convenient option.

Happy Thanksgiving!
I found BiT (Twilight Princess style) for WindWaker.


I've only been able to do it over voids so far, but I hope to soon be able to do it in water as well.

Unfortunately, unlike Twilight Princess I haven't figured a way to get off of the title screen. About a second after you respawn, the King of Red Lions appears for the title sequence, which means that you only have a few seconds in which you can press A, B, Start once. I tried to get enter the nearby house I spawned next to, but the trigger leading to the other side of the door wasn't loaded, leading me to believe that like TP, the entire map is stripped down. Also, it appeared from the minimap that KoRLs wasn't loaded either, but I don't know for sure if it was because he wasn't in that map on the save I did BiT with.

Video soon.

You ass clown hurry up and make the video! lol >_<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE4OXVlph1o
This is the result of my journey to make BiT useful, but unfortunately resulted in failure.

It is pretty cool to watch, in case it does become useful. I have a sound system to getting BiT from drowning to work more consistently.

Plus I did BiT in BiT. Fuck you, mother nature.

Ghost Ship chart shortcut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGCbIgO4xIE

This should save some time getting the chart.
It's old but we need a video.

Hope to see it!!

Wow nice find dude, somebody remember Unreal's sitch skip? (Deku leaf boosted jump) you should make a video

I was looking at the first post, and early Jabun's Hideout is possible? O_o
Somebody tell me how to do that.  :)

Just the chu switch skip 409 again this one is much better.

Edit: The killian Chu Switch Skip (With a little 409 twist to it.) :

This video is a lot like Killian's way I didn't mean to take credit for his finding I didn't even know he found it before me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00HyVDddqvA&feature=player_embedded

This is to show how to do the glitch in a SS. It might be faster then the other ones I'm not sure. And lastly I think this name change is good.

If you fail you have to reset the room, witch it can be a bitch to get her away from the chus without getting hit.

I'll edit this post when i do the other ways to skip the room.

Edit: It turns out killianbeason found this glitch before me. here is his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grjfJQmJpHI&NR=1

MarcusSDA found this small time saver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_BHD4YjFdA

... goddamnit, it's so obvious too >_> I hate when things like this are discovered lmao

Old, but I've never seen it done like that. I've always used the pot on the first switch. Awesome, this room can be unlucky at times...

But my method is the fastest? Atleast it feels like that.

Fastest I can think of, really helpful in an SS, what with the Redeads and skeleton Stalfos thing, forget it's name.

proof that ganon trials skip isnt possible...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ianx6DmG9p0

So, forest trial timesaver.

Get to the first wiggly platform as usual, then right as it reaches the top, jump off and glide to the far away right jiggly thing. Get on the higher platform, then glide to the door as usual. Magic usage is very tight, so don't use too much getting to the first jiggly. I did it first try, and I'd say it's SS doable...

Saves some time I bet, 3 seconds? More? Hard to tell...

Was that with or without rapid Deku boosts? (Or whatever you want to call them).

@MrSparkle

I timed it and it's 8 seconds faster than the normal way.

Ah yes, my bad, had not seen that video.

I just managed to take a Deku stick with me through a door in DRC. Threw it at the side of the door and opened the door as quick as I could and the stick bounced in with me. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I'm sure it'll have some cool uses. Incidentally I did this on my first attempt so probably easily replicable.

EDIT:

Did it again about 30 seconds later. It's really easy.

EDIT:

I wish I could record it >_>

EDIT:

Yayaya! I think I finally got my DVD-recorder figured out. I'll test it out tomorrow :)

Oh wow, you got it too work? Looking forward to the angle, if its that simple it may very well be ss material...

Actually it's iffy. It seems to depend on the door you use it on. I was practising on the door with the key guarded by the Kargorok in it's nest and with that door it really is easy (the Deku stick goes so far infact, that sometimes it flies off the cliff). Other doors it can just barely make it (the first 2 doors you'd use in the 2nd DRC seg). The door after the boulder skip I just can't get it to work. I'm not saying it can't work, but it's a bit annoying, because I have to get it through one door then this one (still I tried about 10 times and didn't get it through once). I haven't tested all doors and I haven't tested doors in different dungeons yet (although I don't see how it could help in those dungeons anyway). I've been trying to figure out the optimal angle, but truth be told it seems quite random at times. My positioning seems persistent, but sometimes I'll get completely opposite results. I'll make a vid on the first DRC door so you can see how easy it is on that door (nowhere near as easy as the first door I tested, but not too hard either). I should stop talking now and just go play. I'll edit with the vid later.

EDIT:

Okay, I got the stick through the door after the boulder skip (it went very far into the room actually). So my idea for DRC seg 1 is possible.

NICE!
now lets try to get the stick on the other side of the boulder :3

Stick Glitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2o05mTLsRw)
For luls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFyB6E6DpK0)

Ani you just blow the boulder up :S

........ stfu, I'm not stupid ;_____;

Ani's not stupid.

:)

This brings back memories from the 100+ wind waker thread when we all began to take interest in this game. The talk of new tricks and route possibilities. <_< I need to start playing this game again.

I just found out that there was a fade-in at Forsaken Fortress. I don't know if you all knew about it, but it might lead to another wrong warp.

Woah, nope. What point in the game?

I haven't been able to replicate, but I have a theory that I haven't tested yet. Basically, I skipped the fade-in at Windfall by saving after the Greatfish cutscene. I think this means the game is expecting the fade-in to happen at some point. I also think that since the Pirate ship appears at Windfall (which is why the fade-in happens) and I skipped it, that some variable remains unitiated that involves being in a quadrent with the Pirate ship. Last time you were at Forsaken Fortress the Pirate ship was there and when you revisit it is gone. Now I went back into this quadrent and tried again and nothing happened. One thing I noted was that when the fade-in happened, it was night, it was raining and there was a thunderstorm (Endless night conditions).

The long and short of it is, by skipping the fade-in at Windfall and entering a quadrent with the Pirate ship during Endless night conditions (Forsaken Fortress), you get the fade-in. I wish I could explain this better x_X

EDIT:

Alternatively, you can ofcourse simply go to Forsaken Fortress during the real Endless night. That would be much simpler.

A few weeks ago in IRC, I brought up a good point of having a Map Glitch. I was thinking we could use the tingle turner or any other item and try to warp using the ballad of gales. Then the text of the tingle turner would interrupt you warping.

I tried this a few Times just now. From what I did there seems to be no time between the song and the warp.

Ani said that this method would most likely require frame perfect TASing. I tried TASing it with dolphin but it's so messy and buggy. :(

That ET chu room trick is not ss material, that that ss video of the trick some chus did not spawn, the ones that drop right away by the door. The strat looks way to too risky, and if it goes wrong you lose so much time. I'd be more comfortable trying the dekuleaf to bomb boost strat, even if ti fails you can get away with not much time lost or try it again...

Hey guy, I uploaded a few videos that could be usefull for the site, go and check my chanel (http://mx.youtube.com/abchimpas)

Sorry but ZFG will be a noob and say I can't put them on the site because they aren't HQ. If it's not any trouble, record these in HQ. Pretty much the same quality as this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4U9myOY0Q).

just agreed with TSDA that he'll put up thos vids

Check out this stuff (http://windwaker.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page)

I found a small and useless glitch.

Run into a Cyclos cyclone, pull out your telescope, zoom in and the short cutscene will be zoomed in too.

Do you remember that trick os sidehoping to the stairs at ET, Venick409 claimed it as own, but I thin he copied from here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grjfJQmJpHI&NR=1), I am thinking about it since that video was uploaded at july and Venick's was at december

What I'd never steal credit for finding a trick, I found it by my self but, I'll edit my video description giving credit and a link to his video.

My video at least shows how to do it from first entering the room, But I'm sorry for taking credit. (when I didn't even know he found it.)

First person to pull that trick off with any consistency WITHOUT KILLING SOME CHUS BEFORE HAND gets 5 ZFG dollars. It just seemed like there were a few more chus falling from the ceiling whenever I tried the trick...

I'm trying to find a way to start off a new file with the Windwaker. The idea being that then it might be possible to visit Jabun early and get Nayru's pearl early via Windwaker dive. I haven't had any luck so far, but, today, I hope to try it on a secondary file started after beating the game. The idea being that by holding down the right combination of buttons at the start of the game, that the codes for the Deluxe Pictobox will be replaced by the codes for the Windwaker.(All this being done without cheats, obviously.) I'm hoping that with Nayru's pearl early a whole new realm of glitches & early items will be opened up, hopefully including early full powered Master Sword--eliminating the need for the Earth & Wind Temples--and already having all Triforce shards--I don't think that I need to go into depth on this one--. If anyone wants to help in this effort, feel free to. I will try to post a video if I find anything. :-\

I really hate to spoil your fun with that theory, as much as we appreciate someone wanting to break the game, but we've already determined that the Jabun cutscene is triggered by shooting down the bombable wall: the cutscene you receive Jabun's Pearl is a part of the same cutscene showing you entering the cave with KoRL. The trigger has nothing to do with entering the cave, sadly enough. We have tested this just about 2 months ago.

But not only that, you'd be making it harder on yourself anyways- you can just swim into that cave. You don't have to do a dive since the wall isn't there, and there's nothing inside of it :[

I respect what you're saying, Ani, but there is still room to try. There might be a difference by trying at the beginning of the game, and if nothing else, trading the Pictobox for the Windwaker--or any item for that matter-- would seem to be a sequence break on its own. Surely you've also done some looking into skipping the first three dungeons. I may still try to prove you wrong. And anyway, if it is possible to get the Master Sword, in full power, early then it would be possible to go to Hyrule during the first visit after defeating all the Moblins & Darknuts. I hope that you're finding a way to use wrong warp to get into the ToG early because then we might be close to the biggest sequence break since the DoT skip in OoT. :)

Try wrong-warping from Forsaken Fortress. I don't know where it warps you to. I bet it's nothing interesting though.

I think someone already made a statement that FF doesn't warp to the ToG, but thanks for the consideration. Couldn't get anywhere on the TS (trial skips). My theory consists of using one of the Bokolins' swords, with the assistance of a bomb, to clip through one of the trial doors & then use the deku leaf to get behind the big door. No progress yet. I'm using a file where I already beat the game so I can't try the strategy on the big door itself. Can someone who hasn't passed the door test it? I need to figure out a way to wrong warp without needing fade-ins. Don't know when I'll get around to it though. ???

1.The current wrong warp is only to outside locations to my knowledge.
2.Trial Skip: Both of those items can be moved. You need an unmovable to clip.
3.The FF2 door has no fadeout.
4.There is no stone door until you visit Greatfish isle. Also, it is possible to dive with a hyoi pear.

About the hyoi pear, I know, but WW dive is a lot easier & more convenient. About the trial skip, could you be more specific when you say "both of those items can be moved. You need an unmovable to clip"? Thanks for the tips though. Not quite sure what to make of the WW speedrun though.

Yes it does.

EDIT:

I read wrong. Which door are you talking about? I know there is a fade-out at FF2 though.

@Razor
Can you upload your trails skip theory to YouTube so I can help you?

Here's all that I got http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux97jwKKneg. Hope you can find something. :)

Like I said in the video, it was a very good theory but it seems impossible.  :( I tried the same thing on boss doors to skip boss keys. I have another idea of how to skip the boss key in Earth Temple but it would make it impossible to get the Mirror Shield if we use it anyway.

@Marcus
Thanks for the subscription. Don't give up on it Marcus. If you give up on it then that will be one less person helping in the effort. I could really use your help on this. ;D
Your english is very good. Noticed you're from Sweden.

Thanks. :D
I wont give up. Earlier in this thread I found a comment where you said that some have tried to skip the first 3 dungeons. How? And is it completely impossible to restore the Master Sword early by Wrong Warping to TotG and all that? The Wrong Warp made me confused.

I agree about the confusing wrong warp. Anyway, is it completely possible to restore the Master Sword, I have no doubt (just having some problems getting it to work). After that & the trial skips are finished there's just a few things I need to figure out before making this the best WW speedrun ever:
1. Wrong Warp inside ToG (Hoping Ani or Phazon will help out on this)
2. Ringing the ToG Bell w/out Grappling Hook (No clue on this one)
3. Bombs w/out pirate ship (There's already a theory that you can get them from Gohdan)
4. Get to Ganon w/out hookshot & grappling hook (Needs more consideration, hover would sure be useful)
To be continued...

Do frozen enemies count as an unmovable, at least when it comes to ledge clipping? I can't remember if I ever checked...

The current list of unmovables are; Medli, Makar, orbs, stone chus, stuned magtails, Armos statues (lol if someone manages a clip off the large statues), and Tetra...

I don't know about Ani, but I'm almost 100% positive that this is impossible. To warp into ToG means you have already erected *snicker* the ToG by placing the 3 pearls. Not only that, but the wrong warp demonstrated by Ani doesn't warp to the ToG quadrant and the FF2 wrong warp (if I can ever get it to work again, and trust me I have been trying) isn't possible until after ToG has been completed. You could try getting the fade-in to occur somewhere else and warp from that, but there's no reason to believe that it'd lead to a different quadrant, and as I said before, without the pearl placements warping to ToG quadrent is useless. Unless you know of a different method to wrong warp, I don't think this'll be doable. 3 still interests me. I don't think there is a way into ToG without bombs, but I'd still like to know what happens when Gohdan tries to give you some extra bombs.

A new method of wrong warp is what I'm trying to figure out & what I need some help on. Marcus and I are currently working on the trial skips so if you could help it would be much appreciated. I'm also curious to see what happens when Gohdan gives you bombs--hopefully the game won't crash--, but as I don't use cheats, I need to find some sort of wrong warp into the ToG (without the pearls). I could really use your help Phazon.
EDIT- Here are some other things I need to add to the list:
5. Deku Leaf & Boomerang Early (Not sure if we can completely skip the Deku Leaf yet. It takes too long to go play through the FW to get the boomerang; if early's not possible, maybe a skip on the Puppet Ganon battle would be possible--would solve the problem of number 4--)
6. (This spot is reserved for fixing any game crashes that may occur in the process of testing)

A great idea just popped into my head. New theory: would it be possible to develop a method to get the fire/ice arrows before the bow? I know that you can get into the fairy island early with cd streaming, but not sure how to activate the fairy cutscene early. This could be a good timesaver in the ToG, but arrises some questions:
1. Would the game also automatically give you the normal arrows too?
2. What all could be skipped?
3. Could this lead to ToG early?
4. Because we don't have the Ballad of Gales, would we be stuck in the island or could we savewarp out?
*5. Crashes? (Hope not.)
Testing needs to be done on this theory. Could lead to ToG early, which would save a lot of time & effort. I'll do my best to get this to work. If anyone finds anything with this leave a reply and post a video on Youtube.

By SDA rules, that CD streaming trick isn't allowed. I don't think you can interfere with the console in any way during a segment. I've tried skipping Puppet Ganon before. I tried a fire arrow on the cauldron from the bottom floor, which would allow me to warp to the top and up to Ganon, but you have to be so damn precise on those cauldrons to open them, that my hope of a stray bit of fire flying through the platform and opening it was optimistic to say the least.

This isn't SDA though, and anyway, wrong warp there might be possible. I like your idea on skipping the Puppet Ganon battle, but like you said, it would take a lot of percision, and--to add to the problems--you'd be dodging PG's fists as well. I really like the idea though, and hope to get around to working with it. If you can get it right will you post a video? :)

I gave up on it, because I'm pretty sure it's impossible. I couldn't make a vid anyway, because my DVD-recorder hasn't been working for months now.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd want my run to be on SDA as well as here, so I follow the rules from there since there really aren't any rules of ZSR to follow (that I know of?).

Like I told Marcus, don't give up on it. In the world of ZSR, you're one of the brightest minds we've got. I'm really busy with the trial skips so if you could work on this it would be extremely appreciated.
EDIT- Adding these to the list:
5. Skip Puppet Ganon Battle (Phazon said that he had an idea on this that sounded very useful. Skipping this not only saves time, but also alows for the boomerang to be skipped)
6. (Reserved for crashes)
7. Deku Leaf Early (It would save a lot of time and skip some long cutscenes to get this early--I'm thinking an RBA-like method--. Until I can prove that the DL is 100% skippable, this will remain on the list)

Knowing me, I'd say that's a pretty bad insult to everyone else here xD. Anyway, I don't know what you want me to do. When I get an idea about something I'll test it, but in this case I was convinced that it just wasn't possible. At the moment I'm still trying to get the FF2 fade-in to happen again so I can try and WW off it. I never understood RBA so I don't really know what you mean there. I don't even know what RBA stands for <_<

A fairly pointless little trick - If you let the water rise all the way against HK and stand in a certain spot, you drop in and out of the water every frame (if you zoom in the game lags pretty noticeably).

RBA stands for reverse bottle adventure. In OoT, what it basically did was when you had a certain item on a certain slot--normally a trading quest item on the right c slot-- and you had a bottle on B, and caught something in that bottle--normally a fish or bugs-- it would mess up the item codes and alow you to suddenly have a random item--depending on what was the certain item on that certain slot. What I ment by getting the deku leaf with a "RBA-like" method, is by having an item on a certain slot, x,y or z, and/or pressing the right combination of buttons--presumably during the beginning cutscene-- it would alow you to start the game with an item you're not supposed to have--hopefully the deku leaf and fully restored Master Sword ;D--. The only problem being that there are over 400 different button combinations and I have no idea which leads to the DL & MS. Now, what I want you to do is try to find how to do any of the glitches on my previous lists and/or any other glitches that you think will come in handy in the above processes.

Alright, but I don't know how the bottle is set to B in OoT, so I don't know how I'd go about doing it in WW.

Indeed, that water ledge splash effect needs a video...

I like your enthusiasm but this sounds to me like pure science fiction

In OoT the bottle is set to B by stealing the fishing rod from the pond, and then pausing and unpausing, then fimally back flipping and pressing the fish/bugs in a bottle then B before you hit the ground. I'm hoping that in WW though that a bottle on B won't be necessary. I know Ani found how to remain swordless after FF.
Not quite sure what you're talking about here. Hope that you can help to clear this up. Sounds like a video would be nice. :)
 I am very optimistic on this theory. But, I strongly believe that this is far from science fiction. I just need some testing to be done on it, as I am currently occupied with the trial skips.

Agreed. RBA is a 'Game Bug' specifically for Ocarina of Time. Game bugs appear when there is a programatical error in some place that the game programmer wasn't able to spot before the final release. The chances of WW to have exactly the same 'Bug' is very low. I would use my time on finding other bugs than testing out every button combination in the hopes of finding a nonexistant RBA. Just my 2 cents...

I'm not saying exactly the same bug. I'm suggesting something similar and just using RBA as a refferance. And about your "using your time on finding other bugs than testing out every button combinations in hope of finding a nonexistant RBA", well, if you want to look for other bugs that's fine. The will probably be something small that will be useless in 6 months to a year, it's been proven. If me, or somebody else, doesn't test the button combinations--which is a very tedious process-- then we miss the chance to discover a huge break in WW. 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxfkb83AG8

While serching for oob in ganon's tower, I found this. The left side seems quiet different but I haven't try.

Nice stuff.

More search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wu1Gu7pjqg

Almost OOB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbinFT4NKBk

New idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB5brrcusns

I do have a wrong warp theory. It is possible to get the Ghost ship Chart very early in the game, right after beating Forbidden Woods. Klyde has a video of it. Try to Wrong Warp using the ghost ship and a bomb taken out via Tingle Tuner Stop-n-Swap. I don't quite have the patience to test this, but I may anyway. :)

Razor...please do research before posting stuff. You're just making yourself look bad :(

At least you have a fervor for testing. Just please learn how to do it a little better...

Majora MM, get on the IRC :P I wanna talk to you.

What do you think I'm doing right now? I always test before just saying things. I hope to really crack down on the trial skips today, I'll laugh when I get them to work. 8) Anyway, Thanks for the wrong warp reference.  :) Yes, I have seen Klyde's video, it's a genius method.
@Majora MIM:
Thanks for all the hard work you're doing, it's really a great help. It looks like you're on the brink of finding something, I sure hope that you do. ;D

...if you really believe this will work go find bottle dupe in WW

Without that there's no way to get bottle B except through black magic

You could never RBA normal items even in OOT

Windwaker is not OOT

You cannot skip the boomerang unless you find Early ToG, or a way to beat Kalle Demos without it

I don't believe that a bottle on B will be necessary. But, if it is, I'll try to find a way. I know that Windwaker isn't OoT, and that's what makes the ideas probable. About the boomerang skip, I know that ToG early would be the way. I've already commented on this in the past. Haven't got around to testing wrong warp with the Ghost Ship yet. I'll try to get around to it.

Other way around, dude. Because it isn't oot, it's not programed the same way, therefore the same methods won't work. They probably learned from their past programming flaws, so there's no way to really know if the same principles apply (like linking an item slot to another item like RBA does)

What makes your idea of the combination of buttons sound like science fiction is the fact that this is zelda. Zelda has no 'cheat' system, like Sonic or other games, where a combination of buttons would link to a different menu or to a debug area. The only thing zelda has even remotely close (and calling it remotely close is a massive stretch) to something like that is the new game+ aspect like in Zelda 1 and WW with its costume and Hylian translations.
Also, even if it were the case, I wouldn't even consider it a 'breakthrough'. If what you were to say is true about starting off with different items via a combination of buttons, then it was intended by the developers. they literally gave you the tools to do that, which in certain aspects is considered cheating. To me, that would feel the exact same as using a gameshark/AR to do so, which around here is not accepted for runs.


As much as I hate being unsupportive/deconstructive especially when it comes to Wind Waker discoveries, I don't foresee any of these ideas becoming a reality.

I doubt that the game developers would ever have intended such to happen. That's like saying that the game developers can forsee the glitches that are going to arise in new games. And anyway, I don't cheat. I hate AR and gameshark. If I can find a method, I will prove to you that it's not "cheating".

I was working on the trial skips today, but after some frustration, I took a break and found something promising. I had always been thinking that it would be great to be able to skip the three goddess statues. In the room before the room where you take them, there are two statues. I found a way to clip one of them through the door, but it doesn't appear on the other side, and, anyways, I was hoping to clip Link through the door. Right now it's more like Phazon's stick glitch, but I'm hoping to clip the door soon with a new theory. I'm not uploading anything yet until I do a bit more testing. Hopefully, the clip is possible.  ;D

I don't see how that would allow us to skip the 3 goddess statues or save any time at all.

It's only a theory, and the idea is that the room unloaded might have some different aspects to it. For instance, the light warp thing might be activated.

120th comment hyes anyways i wish the one glitch i had found on my channel wudve been something useful

I don't understand at all. What room are we talking about here?

The room where we learn the command melody and bring the 3 CM statues

Oh. Well in that case:


I don't see why any in-game variable would change simply because the room is unloaded.

I don't know if it would effect anything, it's just an idea. You never know with the zelda series what secrets an unloaded room might hold. Even if I could just clip the door, I'd consider that a big accomplishment. There's always a possibility that it could evolve into something big, just like Yauty's sideways backflip. :)

Wasn't there some glitch that people thought may allow you to clip through the tops of doors? What happened with that?

By the way Phazon. I fought Gohdan today without any mistakes. Now I'm pretty sure that his hands don't get revived if you walk towards them while shooting. I also noticed that you can Deku Leaf to the boss key which is a lot easier than bomb boosting over the laser. I find it harder to bomb boost over the one at the boss key. Also, when I Deku Leafed over to the boss key, I didn't have to watch the little cutscene when the lasers disappear after opening the chest. I'll record the segment today and hopefully I'll get it done today. :D

EDIT: Now when Gohdan isn't a big problem anymore, everything else is :'(
Maybe I get it done tomorrow :D

Which are the conditions to dive under an island (like ghost ship early), and not stay at the top of the water (like kazzoie's vid on windfall island).

New discovery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnaLDYS_Itk

Nice job Marcus. I have always found that bomb boosting is easier, however with this it is now possible to get the boss key quicker w/out bombs. Good. :)
I think I know what you're talking about, but you're right; what happened with that? I think you're reffering to Venick's glitch; I'll have to work with that.
@Majora MIM:
Interesting thing you found here. Right now it may seem useless, but who knows. It might evolve into something big in the future. :)

If your talking about Clipping through the top of doors in TotG then that wasn't me who found that it was MrSparkle.

That's awesome. The bomb boost can be a real pain and the skipped cutscene just makes it even better ;D

Keep trying, you're gunna get an awesome segment soon :)

Yeah, Door Clip. Theres a ZSR page about it. Find another place with a similarly small hangable ledge against a wall, and it should work there as well.

I am always moving when shooting arrows during Gohdan / Puppet Snake Ganon. I guess thats why the hands respawning was never really an issue. Nice going figuring it out! Also, whats this about gliding over the boos key lasers, and how is that skipping the laser scene? If it skips the Armos coming to life, then you are stuck...

Looks like it only happens sometimes, I don't think it has to do with deku leafing over anymore. Anyway, deku leafing over is a few seconds faster and alot easier.

You glide to the yellow things on the sides if the lasers and grab, like I said to Phazon I don't think gliding over has anything to do with the cutscene skip, it's just random. It happened once, the lasers disappeared without the cutscene starting but the Armos enemies will still come to life so you won't get stuck.

I didn't know that there was a page here about the clip. I'll have to look into that. Otherwise, not much luck clipping the door. I'm sure that it's just some little thing that I'm doing the wrong way.

I have good and bad news.

The good news: You skip the little cutscene after getting the boss key by holding L and there might be a way to get the past the lasers with the 3rd statue without using the Wind Waker or bomb boosting and it would be faster too.

The bad news: Walking towards Gohdan's hands while shooting at them is DEFINITELLY not the reason they don't get revived and it even happens sometimes if you shot the 2 arrows slow. I'll upload the Gohdan battle today so you help me finding out why the hell Gohdan does this.

A few days ago in the IRC, we discovered something that could be something major in the future.

If we somehow find a way to Forsaken Fortress (second visit) early, the scene at the end where Link gets his ass kicked by Ganondorf actually gives you the uncharged Master Sword. This means we could end up skipping Jabun's Pearl and Tower of Gods completely.

Unfortunately, this is going to be very hard to achieve, as the developers are assholes.

The first wall, we cannot get the Skull Hammer at all, as the Hero's Sword can't do any damage to Phantom Ganon. Even when he's down on the ground from using a Bottle to reflect his blasts, nothing hurts him. Nothing.

The second wall is, literally a wall. We can't get in the door to Helmaroc King's room because we lack the Skull Hammer, so we need to find a way to get OoB, and float into the doorway. The only OoB point near to the door (that I found) is above the door and to the left. The only way we're going to get into it (without some new clipping method) is to find some new trick that gains a massive amount of height.
This is the wall I speak of, outlined where you can go through the wall:
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3034/outlinee.png)


After we get past that, getting to the top of Helmaroc's tower is easy enough. We need to first climb up the tower, then leap off beside him at the end and Deku Leaf over to the edge behind him, then release the Deku Leaf at the right time in order to grab the edge.

But then, we hit another wall (an invisible one, to be precise), the spikes. To get over the spikes, we would probably use whatever method we used to gain height to get into Helmaroc's room, or use a bomb to damage boost up there, but that has proven unsuccessful so far. Even if we land on top of the invisible wall above the spikes, there's an invisible force pushing you to the right (like the statue in front of the Wind Temple), but if we can get Link running on top of them, it should be no problem to get to the other side.
In any case, here's how high up the invisible wall above the spikes goes:
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9042/image5iw.png)


It's nice to have some theories, but it seems like the developers were out to screw us over at every turn.

Hmm. Maybe you can damage boost over the wall at the side of the spikes before the Phantom Ganon fight at FF2 then get a Deku Stick and get the Megaton Hammer with that. Surely though, getting to FF2 early is impossible outside of a wrong warp (which won't happen, let's face it).

EDIT:

Actually I think you have to ring the bell at the top of ToG to be able to get to Hyrule, so no ToG = no way to complete the game. Don't you just love those Wind Waker developers?

You probably can. Maybe if you collect all the triforce shards, the cs might trigger.

The walls beside the spikes? Fuck no, they're about 20 times taller.

As for the Deku Stick, very unlikely that it can damage Phantom Ganon.

And as for the Hyrule thing, no, you never go into the ring of light yourself, it's always done automatically through a scene.

Also, you don't need to stomp all over what little hope we have, you cretin.

Sorry. I'm just being realistic.

No <.<

The Ganon CS takes you to hyrule

This is the same deal as the Jabun cutscene. The golden ring of light doesn't 'appear' after beating ToG just as getting into Jabun's cave doesn't make Jabun appear. They're all within a cutscene.
So yes, going into hyrule when you're supposed to go the second time for the first time would work. It's just getting the other shit to work that's the problem

I like what Klyde is saying about FF2 early, but there seems to be many obstacles. This takes me back to my theory about returning the Master Sword to power before you first obtain it--no idea how, however--. I think that skipping the ToG simply isn't an option because, in my opinion, the ToG is the key to Ganon's Tower early. I have it all planned out in my head, but have yet to put it into action. Sounds like Klyde's idea about FF2 early, but the other way around. Still working on getting some other breaks to work, but I might mess around with this too. :)

You can't skip Jabun's pearl or ToG (completely). You need the arrows, which means you could still skip half of ToG and the first trip to Hyrule, not to mention some pretty lengthy cutscenes, so if arrows hurt PG then isn't that all of the problems solved (apart from actually getting to FF2 early)?

What happens if you leave the map from the top and jump just over the corner of the FF quadrant? Is it possible that KoRL will stop you from leaving the map and turn you back into FF? I'd try this myself, but I don't have a file anywhere near this.

Doesn't work.

EDIT:

Unless an arrow upgrade gives you arrows (but I don't think it does).

Need Megaton Hammer to get upgrades.

EDIT:

Actually, I don't think arrows will hurt PG.

Pointless trick. Go into the FF room with the beds and a chest on the bottom bed, get behind the chest and jumpslash onto it and you get "crushed".

Another pointless thing. If you have your telescope out, the whirlpool at Outset can't actually hurt you. You just spin in the middle until you get rid of the telescope.

EDIT:

I have another idea for getting to FF2 early, but this one is pretty much TAS only. I'd be suprised if anyone could do it otherwise. Basically, sail up to the FF quadrent, fire a bomb up in the air and hit yourself with it, so you fall out of the boat, but the boat moves forward a little bit more and ends up in the FF quadrent. Drown and warp to KoRL.

This definitely works for warping you to the next quadrant, but you HAVE to go diagonally into FF, otherwise you are stopped before you get anywhere near the quadrant edge (and a bomb boosts KoRL almost nowhere). When I go into other quadrants I get warped a nice distance into that quadrant (the same amount as a GSSW) and since KoRL just seems to check if you're going into a quadrant instead of if you're actually in a quadrant, then maybe he won't turn you around. I'll keep trying.

Nice stuff. I may play with ti some later today.

Oh and its Skull Hammer. And even then, you need that to get the upgrades normally, but could there be other ways?

I don't think so, but I didn't really try anything. I saw that there was an invisible wall and decided not to bother with it.

Oops, I always say Megaton Hammer instead of Skull Hammer x_X

I like your idea about using upgrades to get around the arrows. That's a lot more effecient than my idea of wrong warping into Mother & Child Isles and activating the fire/ice arrow cutscene early. I'm sure that there's a way to get around using the skull hammer to get the upgrade. I also like your idea about the bombing yourself to get to FF2 early. Sounds like a strategy that I'll look into. ;D I need to work on skipping the PG battle, whether it's using the method that you told me about a while ago or a different one.

You couldn't get FA/IA early. Even if you warp there as soon as you get BoG, the fairy won't show up. You have to have beaten FF2 (I think). And as for the arrow upgrades early, there're invisible walls and if I've learned anything about this game it's that invisible walls do their jobs, but if you're going to look into that, you may as well try bomb upgrades early as well, but since neither of those are necessary to get EMS to work, it'd make more sense to have more people trying to get into the quadrant early, skipping PG or beating PG without MS.

The only way to skip PG (that I can think of) would be to dive under the big door on the water (into the hanging boat room) and see if you can find a way to get to the upper level or if you can find a way to get to somewhere high enough that you could Deku Leaf across to the broken ladder, but even then you need the Skull Hammer to get to HK as well as beat him. I don't think it's possible to get over the invisible wall at the HK fight, so you're gunna have to beat him.

Kinda off topic, but does getting the sword at FF1 end the BiT glitch?

Okay. So I think people aren't completely getting my theory on EMS and skipping FF2, etc. So I'll do my best to go into immense detail on this. My theory is to some how, not sure yet, activate some sort of unknown trigger in the game that will allow you to obtain the full power master sword early either via activating something that allows you to get EMS before you obtain the MS after ToG or obtaining the full power MS in exchange for the normal one you get on the first trip to Hyrule. The idea being with already having the full powered blade you are able to bypass the invisible wall blocking access to Hyrule and get to Ganon's Tower early. Then--with the hopeful trial skips--go straight to the three ganon battles. That's where skipping PG comes into play, and hopefully skipping the hookshot and/or grappling hook. I know it's a lot to consider, so please. If you have any questions about it all feel free to ask & I'll do my best to answer them. :)

It's all very well proposing a theory like that, but normally theories have some kind of ground to work on. To say you'll somehow do this and somehow do that is meaningless, because without having specific ideas for techniques used to do them, your theories are about as solid as me saying "I'm going to somehow wrong warp from Grandma's house to the Ganon battle with Light Arrows and fully powered MS, but I don't know how yet". As much as what you're proposing would be great for speedrunning Wind Waker, you have to be realistic and work with the mechanics of the game; otherwise you're just making up theories that'll never work. The foundation of your theory is an EMS with no input on how it's going to work and on top of that you have trial skips and a Puppet Ganon skip, which several players have tried and got nowhere with.

It's great that you want to help break this game and I hate to sound like I'm just shooting down all your ideas, but I think you'd be much more help if you just kept your ideas realistic and work with what we have now.

Ok, I found a lot of dive spot here and there but I can't dive deep. I stay splashing on the surface like in the Kazooie's Windfall Island video.
So I just wanted to know, what are the conditions to dive deeper?

Where have you been diving?

Earth and wind island, all of the dice island (but we don't care and there's no use).

Entrering earth temple by diving could lead to bracelet skip.

I was SO but I mean SO close for skipping bracelet skip. I dived under there but the loading zone is a bit more to the top and we cant reach it. I forgot to put in on video but i think ill do it sooner or later.

Your upgrade theory, it doesn't work for Bombs, so I doubt it's going to work for Arrows.

I still want to know how to dive deeper.
Maybe there's still a way using Tingle's bomb, or Tingle's baloon...

You still need the bracelets to get to SL, so you'd need to find a way to skip that too. I think you need it for the 101 rupee trick too, but that's not mandatory.

The chart you get in the 101 (theres more than one, but there is a faster one, do the other one only once) grotto is.

I just found this today, Moving while carrying heavy objects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FhWLYDUyKw

It gives me new idea. Maybe by letting end a forest water timer at the same time you're talking to someone or opening a chest or a door, it will have interresting consequences like unloaded rooms or riching unloaded area.

Sounds practical and very useful. Also, I like you're new icon.
@Phazon
I do have an idea of how to get my theory to work and always have. I haven't told anyone about it, however, because I don't need people to say,"That's not going to work." Most of us didn't think that you could move while lifting heavy objects, but MajoraMIM proved that possible.
@Klyde
Never say never.

O_o how the hell do you kill PG without MS?
And don't we need the skull hammer in wind temple. (and to enter wind temple to)?


trust in the forest water, it will lead us to victory

Anyway, to skip helmaroc king, I'm thinking of placing a bomb near the spike wall, and go on the side spike. Then jump+deku leaf and get damage boost. I've been able to climb another wall of almost the same height by the same method in FF.

Tingle doesn't follow you in boss battle but even if he would, I'm almost sure we can't use tingle's baloon in FF. My original plan was to use tingle's baloon from side spike then jumpslash from air with damage boost to get on the spike wall.

I'm pretty sure the timer is paused when you talk to someone. If not you could get in a body of water, talk to KoRL and never drown, which would make early FF2 possible.

EDIT:

@Razor Actually I never even thought about moving with heavy objects lol. I'm not saying what you're planning isn't possible. Anything is possible. I'm just saying, how likely is it that you're going to find what you need for your theories? I'd love for you to find a big break in WW and I wish you good luck, but I'm still sceptical. Sorry.

As for the M&C problem. For now I think we should assume that we'd get the Bow from ToG. 5 minutes to get the Bow is the least of our worries.

An idea that I'm pretty sure won't work, but it doesn't hurt to test. Try hitting PG after drinking soup.

Can't you get into the Wind Temple with Power Bracelets?

No, you need hammer skull to get in the wind temple. Even if we can clip through, we'll still need it inside the temple...

1: You don't.
2: You don't need it INSIDE the Temple, if I remember right. Just for the one room with the Hookshot, but you can S&Q to get out.

Anyhow, EMS isn't going to happen. Too many invisible walls blocking us off.

What happens when you hit PG with a regular sword? Does he flinch as if he was hit, but takes no damage or does nothing happen at all?

Nothing happens when you hit him with the Hero's Sword. It can't even reflect his blasts back at him.

Every other item was tested against him, too. Nothing works. Not even a Deku Stick.

Very nice.

I like the increase in your enthusiasm. The reason why we all think this is impossible is because the glitch knowledge we have in that area is very low. It's like before the DoT skip in OoT, no one would have ever thought it possible to skip all child dungeons.

What items does the fire/ice arrows replace the regular bow with? And/or what is the items icon? Just curious.

It replaces the regular Bow with the Fire/Ice Bow.

Normally, you need the Bow to get the Ballad of Gales to get the Fire/Ice Bow.

And I assume it would work the same with Light Arrows replacing the Fire/Ice Bow with Fire/Ice/Light Bow, as to get the Light Arrows you need the Fire/Ice Bow to get that far.

So, BoG is the test for if you can get I / F arrows? It would have to be more, becuase then we would just get arrows then get BoG. Having the MS would make sence as a trigger. Another way of programing that would be a check for if you don't have the Hero Sword...

You think swordless glitch could actually be useful?

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure that there's some way that Ani's swordless link glitch could be useful, but it just needs a good spot to be incorparated into a speedrun. I've been wondering about that for a while.

Ballad of Gales is not the trigger at all. I'm not sure where you got that.

The trigger for being able to get them is completing FF2. The reason we need Ballad of Gales is to escape M&C. If you dive under it and activate the scene, your boat appears with you in the scene, and is stuck inside M&C. Without Ballad of Gales, you're stuck for good.

I've confirmed about 5 months ago that Swordless glitch isn't useful at all. I've gotten up to the master sword swordless and nothing weird happens. Just like if you were beating the game normally. Also FYI, Ani didn't find that trick. Unreal did IIRC.

Yes, it was Unreal who discovered it, I just documented it on video + played with some of it.

I have to admit, my knowledge on the swordless glitch is close to nothing. I may have to watch Ani's vid for like the 5th time and try to actually remember stuff x_X.

Can you get into M&C without BoG? I mean, if you warp there are you just warped to a room that isn't there if you try to get in from the outside of the island, maybe because the programmers assumed that getting in without BoG was impossible?

Thats where I got it. Either way, I was just using it as a platform to mention the random idea I had as i read the new posts. But yeah, I forgot you do ff2 before IF arrows...

Well, if you read what I've been posting, it'd be clear...

You can get in without BoG by WW Diving. However, you cannot get out without BoG. The scene activates just fine, everything goes accordingly.

It's official, ww low% is possible, now. And they say its hopeless, thats a major accomplishment...

Not possible until we get outta M&C. Even if we do, we cannot go anywhere, as our boat is still inside. Unless we can find some way to get our boat and ourselves out of M&C, we're Cannon Roomed.

The swordless glitch from the pirate ship was found by me lol. It was uploaded on my ZeldaTPrunner account with some other weird things on the ship and the video was called ''Wind Waker - Can't Complete Game Glitch'' Some time after I figured out that it was the Tetra Text Skip that made that happen.

If we find a way to clip through a wall or any other method to reload the area, do you think that title screen glitch would allowe us to warp back to outset?


My last finds:
-If you hit a molblin with boomerang while swordless the camera will be locked in the molblin axe like if he was supicious until you exit the area.
-In case you didn't know, you can grab the ToG's bell without climbing the ladder, and it rings it two times in row realy quick.

Helmaroc skip is hard as hell, I'll try to jumpslash from the side spike to angled damage boost. If it don't work, I'll give up.

That would revert us to the Title Screen state of equipment (nothing), though, wouldn't it?

I didn't recall you saying that before, sorry.

Low% is possible, although it'd just be a regular run with medium wallet, which would just plain suck.

How is it going with finding of new tricks and glitches?, increasing, decreasing expontial, whatever. Would thes sonn be put to use in a speedrun. It's time to get this a run done! Don't want to rush or or make the run bad quality, but I think it's time to see a practical use of all timesavers and such.

Can you make a video of it and put it on YouTube? I'd really like to do some testing with it and would like to have a good place to start. :)

Wrong Warp update: It turns out you don't need a damage boost from the gyorg/shark to trigger it- You can swim right into it no problems

But, I'm thinking now we have a problem with any Wrong Warp theories of breaking this game: I just noticed that your boat's warped to the center quadrant (D4), Not to mention just barely off-center of the quadrant.
In a nutshell, it's probably warping you to the default (0,0) of the ocean map.

So no matter where you trigger wrong warp, it will just default.

:[

You know, not getting the largest wallet is only 30 or so seconds slower? I was working hard at it, but in the end, it was still obviously slower...

Really? I thought needing to take 4 trips between Tingle Island and wherever you do the 101 rupee trick (Stone Watcher?) would take a while.

Yeah, I'm not sure how it was setup, but theres a post about it at sda, someplace. I bet I made an error someplace...

Helmaroc 2nd Phase Skip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7GYYdX_Jc

Found by Me.

Couldn't have even thought of this without Cerpin.

Awesome find!!! This must save 30 seconds or so.

Nice find Venick. Like Ani said on YT, is there any consistency with this?

About the gyorg trigger: I thought the same thing, that surely Gyorg isn't necessary. About the wrong warp to default: you make a nice point about this, but more testing still needs to be done to see if this is truly the case.
@Venick
Awesome find on the second Helmaroc phase skip ;D,  if only it was skipping the whole battle. :'(

Beings that whenever you trigger the Helmaroc's broken mask event, the cutscene automatically places you on that spot where his head is. So, as long as you're able to get him to peck in the right spot, then you should pop behind the spike wall everytime.

You'd probably have to pull it off like I've seen cerpin do it (where you're partially in the wall) when helmaroc decides to peck. Rolling between the spike and whatnot at the right angle should be able to do it.



I assume alot of things without testing them :S

Awesome, looks consistent with practice.

Yiihaa! That's awesome. Too bad that we can't skip more...

I also have my share of assumptions, but most of the are based on some sort of past encounter or concurrent findings.

that helmaroc king skip was neat.

Incase anyone was wondering, the trial skips are going pretty slow right now, so I'm taking a break from them for awhile so that I can have some time to think of a new method of action. So right now, I'm trying to consentrate on getting EPMS to work at the moment. I have a new theory on getting it to work, but I need to start a new file first. I'll post a video when it works. :)
@Klyde
Where on M&C Isles is the windwaker dive spot. I wanted to test it yesterday, but I couldn't find the location. ???

Same here.

At the edge of the island. The water needs to lower enough so you can see the edge clearly. Stand in place to put a bomb near the edge, and wait for the water to rise again. When the water lowers again, as soon as you can, put down a bomb, then WW dive off of it.

Thanks. I came up with a new theory on how to get the bomb upgrade(s) early. I won't post it until it works though.

If you don't have the actual item, you CANNOT use the item. I tested this already.

my first find in this game
saves some seconds
difficult
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwBe4vOicg

Cosmo's trick + Klyde's Heart container CS Skip would make that one damn hard segment, beings that it's already about 15 minutes long :I

Pro strats

I got an idea for bottle duplication in WW the other day. I haven't got any really testing done on it yet though. I'll explain why it's useful later.

Awesome stuff. Dous not look that hard at all. For segmenting at least...

^Well to be fair, any time-saver added to the ToG segment just makes it more of a pain in the ass.

Can you equip it? Also, a video on WW dive @M&C Isles would be nice. I found the spot, but can't get the dive right.

New theory about Gohdan:
Shoot the first arrow on his hands like normal and then shoot the second arrow a little slower than you usually do and keep aiming on his hand untill it's down. It looks like his hands don't get revived at all if you do that, but it's just a theory and it needs more testing. But so far his hands haven't got revived when I did it.

New Idea: Collect blue chu jelly--for the first time--at the exact same moment that the forest water timer ends. I'm guessing something interesting will happen, but it is extremely difficult to get the timing right.

The best you can hope for is for the text to cancel the collection and leave the jelly suspended in air

That can't do crap

That's the best that you hope for. My biggest fear is that it will end in a crash, but I have a particular hope for what will happen.

Alright Razor, what do YOU hope will happen?
Cerpin actually gave you a logical result of what probably would happen: the forest water text would overwrite the blue chu jelly and leave it suspended in mid-air, otherwise probably do nothing else.

Also, why blue chu jelly over red or green? They're just as avoidable/obtainable and do the exact same thing: sit in your spoils bag until you make them into a potion.
Just... why? What do you honestly think it would lead to?

I know that Cerpin stated what you call the most logical result, and the base of his theory is the same as my own: A script cancelling a script. Blue Chu jelly because blue chus are conviently located on all of the upgrade islands. This is all pointing to what I hope might happen: the text from the forest water--which freezes your position and the camera-- will be cancelled by the "new item" script--likewise--, allow link to move but the camera positioning to remain stationary. From there I'm hoping that the game will not load the barriers blocking the upgrade access. So basically, a MM "stop time" like effect.

The barriers are loaded when you get to the island. They don't unload afaik.

Damn the timing on the text cancelling is hard to get! I was working on it tonight, but it's going to take more practice to get right.

Text script cancel is almost complete, and the timing is almost perfect. I am trying to shift my focus to finishing my new sequence break in ToG. I hope to upload some new videos soon!

Gogogogogo Razor! I really want to see new TWW breaks done!

Here's an incredibly close attempt at a new sequence break in ToG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA375bD5PV0. It just needs a bit more testing. @Kazooie: I'm in the process of getting a couple more breaks to work. If you want to stay up-to-date on my finds feel free to subscribe to my channel @ http://www.youtube.com/user/Razor7581.

Bottle dupe would be practically useless. I tested with cheats already.

If you somehow dupe an Empty Bottle: You have a worthless Empty Bottle that cannot store anything.
If you somehow dupe a Filled Bottle: The item in the duped bottle is infinite, and you CANNOT get rid of it.

Unless you can actually sail away this won't do anything. The game loads each island as you come into the quadrant. FULLY loads it.

Can I ask did you test this with action replay or with emulator and with cheats? If you have that kind of weird cheats what are rare with gameshark on cube. Can I get those too from you? You can PM me if you have any. Thanks for advance!

I used Dolphin's built-in Action Replay cheats, and modified them. It's not too hard, just find unencrypted codes that give you other items, let's say, the Hookshot. The unencrypted code would look like this:
003c4c57 0000002f

The 2f at the end of the code is the Hookshot's item number.

Now, looking at the unencrypted code that gives you Bottle 1 (003c4c52 00000050), you see that 50 is the ending two letters. If you put the 50 (or another item number, for different items, or different contents for the bottle) in place of the 2f for Hookshot, you'll get an Empty Bottle in that slot instead.

If you're going to be doing this on console, you're going to get to get a program to encrypt the codes (GCNCrypt, I believe). Also, if you're on PAL (which I assume you are), you're going to need to get codes specifically for the PAL version of Wind Waker. Of course, another problem arises if you have the later piece of shit version of Action Replay, that disallows the adding of codes, in which case, you cannot do anything.


Edit: Also, some things for Tower of Gods.

Scale Room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NVDAvfU9L4

Boss Key, Leaf Method (easier than damage boost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAfHgNtoZ8s

Also, it is possible to shoot out both of Gohdan's eyes without him using his laser attack, but it's insanely luck based and requires manual aiming.

@Klyde:
You rely too much of your testing on cheats.

If you know what the cheats do you won't pull a grunz.

You obviously think cheats are some magical force that hacks the game in 50 random spots.

Anyway, putting a bottle in that slot is an accurate simulation of bottle dupe. That's exactly what bottle dupe does.

Wait...

What the FUCK. You guys didn't know about the leaf method for BK until now? I used it all the time when I played like 4 years ago cause I was too lazy to do it properly.

If you're so sure that that's exactly what bottle dupe does, then I challenge you to do bottle dupe without cheats and see if that's what happens. I know that cheats aren't a "magical force", but I do recall instances when cheats have produced different results then their non-cheat counterparts.
EDIT:
@Elminster-What's "BK" stand for that you're talking about?

Boss Key.

@Phazon
Thanks. There are too many abbreviations to remember.

You CAN'T bottle dupe without cheats. Even if you could, all you'll do is write the item value 50 (or the value of whatever is stored inside) to whatever slot you're duping over. That value can never change, no matter how many times you use the bottle to catch or drink something, as there's nothing coded for that slot.

As far as instances where cheats produced different results, why don't you name some of those?

Alright, Mr.Legit. Go find interesting stuff that leads to better theories, like klyde, but without cheats. KlydeStorm has given us many ideas and possibilities by using cheats, which normally we wouldn't know without cheats.

The reason why you wouldn't know them without cheats is because your thought process of glitches is restricted to what you think fits in the game's limits. The reason why there are so many vast glitches in zelda games is because of people being willing to think outside the box and modify their theories if necessary. I just modified part of the new ToG break thanks to an idea I got from Klyde. I appreciate all of the things that Klyde finds with cheats, but I also believe that the reason some of these breaks never get found is because people become so fixated on the thought that there is only one way to complete a task/find.

Skip triple Stalfos fight for the Mirror Shield in Earth Temple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUUI_u1JPCQ

Awesome find. ;D

Get behind the Hyrule repulsive barrier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfqTH1ZrW0g
I saw that trick in an old video on yt but I haven't been able to find it again.

Unfortunately it seems there's no way to go through the invisible wall.


I also have an idea to skip the Darknut Magnus fight in the Master sword room: Maybe we can bomb boost over the electric barrier of the great hall or just deku leaf over it by jumping from the floor. I haven't a game file at this point of the game and I haven't more time to play cause of exams... So someone may test it.

Yeah!

I love your new theories. However--knowing Nintendo-- there's probably an invisible wall keeping bomb boosting from working. I'll try to test it anyway.

Since it is a loaded and already usable exit way, I don't think there will be an invisible wall above the electric lasers. It should work like in tower of gods. But I trust more in the deku leaf method than the bomb boost.

Even if we could go through it would be completely useless because without trails skip we need Mirror Shield and Hookshot and the only way to get back there is to get the Triforce peices after getting them. But then if trails skip worked, how do we get to Ganondorf without Hookshot and how do we beat him without Mirror Shield? I assume you need the Mirror Shield to reflect the light arrow on him.

Haven't done much with the trial skips resently. I don't think that it matters what shield you have for reflecting the light arrows, but getting to Ganondorf without the hookshot is an obstacle I've tried to get around, but haven't had any luck with.

Well, something that might help with hookshot skip, and be an awesome break in it's own right, would be fire arrowing the blue pot either during the Puppet Ganon fight or afterwards...

I've been working on this too, but it's an almost impossible angle. I'll keep trying. However, even if this does happen, we'd still need to find a way around using the hookshot to get to Ganondorf.

Well, a number (1 is a number) of small tricks have been found recently from looking for huge breaks. It's a gain in the end...

I tested this a long time ago. The precision needed to burn open a cauldron from point blank is ridiculous and the cauldron itself is high up in the room, bang in the middle of that big platform, so getting the angle won't happen and the hit-box of the fire arrow is way too small to make it anywhere near the top of the cauldron. It's impossible without finding some way to gain extra height in that room.

Heart Container Text Skip (minus Gohma and Helmaroc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiH86Dke5rE

Confirmed to work on Kalle Demos and Molgera. It should work the same for Jalhalla and Gohdan, though the latter already has an easier method.

Get in the trial's boss fight change your equipement, so I hoped it could give us mirror shield and hookshot. Does somebody tested how the trials can modify your equipement if it is not complete yet with AR?

^ Interesting point.

Found a WW-dive spot outside FF, but you stay on the surface. I don't know if that'll always happen; I don't know much about WW-diving. Thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

EDIT:

Found another one. Same result.

Do the bottle trick while giving the fairy to grandma. => freeze

I wouldn't be surprised if you need fully restored Master Sword to beat him.

I already tested if the Trials actually gives you the equipment you need.

It doesn't.

Neither would I. That's where EPMS would be the choice over the repulsive barrier skip. It kind of makes sense that the trials don't give you the proper items--hookshot & mirror shield--. Probably because the trials don't give you items. They simply take items out of your inventory that you didn't have--excluding MS-- when battling that boss.
EDIT:

Tried to use MrSparkle's door clip method on the trial doors in Ganon's Tower. Can't get it to work.

Found a random & seemingly useless glitch today while messing around with the forest water timer. If you get on Beetle's shop ship and wait for the timer to get down to approximately 5 seconds, then place a bomb; when it is about to explode the timer will pause it. Then when you press 'A' for the text to go away and shield--if you're in the right position-- then bomb will explode with multiple explosions--about 20--. I'll try it on normal ground. Too bad my camera wasn't on when it happened. :'(

Oh, I totally forgot to mention, but you can override the Call command when you're near Medli (or Makar, but he's terrible).

When you're in the radius for Call, you pull out the Wind Waker, hold R, then cancel it. Link will pull out his shield like normal, allowing you to shine light freely. I assume it makes the one method of doing the Mirror Room in Earth Temple a hella lot easier.

I never got around to making a video for it before my computer finally decided to not let me play WW anymore, sorry.

Do you ever play WW on a consol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhQB9XiTlB4

the most useless thing ever discovered

Interesting news. A Deku Stick DOES hurt PG. I found a way around the SH-blockages and took a Deku Stick into the fight and I was able to damage him with it. He took a lot of hits with it though and knocked me into the water, causing me to lose the stick, so I don't know if he can be beat with it or not. He was definitely taking hits though, as if I was hitting him with the MS. Something strange is that only spin-attacks will hurt him and nothing else. It occurred to me that if I had the regular sword instead of the MS and I tried spin-attacking PG, then it might not do anything, but I can't test that.

I'll keep trying and edit if I beat him with a Deku Stick.

EDIT:

He died.

Yes, but for numerous reasons, I use emulator.

1: Savestates allow for testing things a LOT easier.
2: I cannot record on console.
3: If I were to want to test theories with cheats, I'd have to set up my AR every time.

Good fucking shit! Klyde, we're back on track.

We already know how to WW dive into FF2. The reason it was on the surface is because you stayed under too long.

Interesting. Proves what I said about testing things in multiple ways before saying that they don't work. Still trying to duplicate my results of multiple bomb explosion.

Alright, I wasn't sure if everyone knew or not. I'm never in IRC, which is where I'm guessing most discussions take place. I know that about WW diving now, but thanks anyway.

I still have strong suspicions that without MS, a Deku Stick won't hurt PG. It's really only because a spin-attack is the only way to damage him. You can see the hitbox of a spin-attack when you do it, which always looks the same no matter what weapon you're using, and I think that the hitbox of a spin-attack always checks the in-game variables to see what your primary weapon is. Then again, if that were true, it wouldn't take so long to beat PG. I dunno.

EDIT:

I guess I'll try and find a way to get to FF2 early. Does anyone know how far into the game you need to be for KoRL to stop you entering the FF quadrant?

Don't bother finding a way to FF2 early, I just tested it, and killing Phantom Ganon with the Deku Stick is a bust. WW shit on us again. If you have the Hero's Sword, Deku Stick attacks (all of them) do nothing. It's dependent on your sword. You still need the Master Sword.

Looks like we need a way aroung FF2.

Or a way around the stupid-high PG trigger. Though that would mean there are still a lot more SH-related problems that would need to be resolved.

We have a way to somewhat get around the trigger already. Cerpin found out that we can get all the way to the top, and swing on the Grappling Hook point to stay up top after the PG scene triggers.

Unfortunately, we're at an EXTREME dead-end without Skull Hammer.

List of fuck-yous:
-Complete Earth Temple without Skull Hammer
-Get into Wind Temple without Skull Hammer
-Start Helmaroc Phase 2 without Skull Hammer
-Get any Quiver upgrade without Skull Hammer (we need one if we skip the bow in ToG, or we can't fire arrows)
-Escape Mother & Child without Ballad of Gales
-After we escape M&C, find a way to get our boat the fuck outta there

We can get round the PG trigger

It's useless because you need the hammer unless you went straight to Hyrule from FF2 and magically got a quiver

I know most everyone is against this, but we should find a way to get to Ganon's castle after first getting the MS. I working on the trial skips and believe I'm getting closer to clipping through the doors to get OoB. Once that's out of the way-- and we figure out how to get to Ganondorf without the hookshot; got a good method in mind for this one-- we'd skip:
-Items
1. Skull Hammer
2. Fire/Ice Arrows
3. Mirror Shield
4. Hookshot
5. Triforce Charts/Shards

-Dungeons & Bosses
1. FF2: Phantom Ganon & Helmorac King
2. Earth Temple: Jalhalla
3. Wind Temple: Molgera
4. Most of GT: Puppet Ganon... etc.

Good luck.

Does anybody tested to fly over the electric ray to skip Darknuts fight in MS room yet? Come on gentlemen, I haven't time to test (and no way to play TWW for now).


I still prefer the grandma to final Ganon break theory... Razor, before even thinking about that we must continue to find tricks here and there. That's the way it went for OOT, MM, TP etc... because it helps to find new stuff and all of thoses heavy glitches. Even if TWW seems way more unbreakable than the others since codes doesn't led us realy far, we can still hope to find a way to use the game's dynamics at our advantage.



Oh, and I was just wondering: does anybody even get an idea of how we could avoid activating map or text loading triggers like with the map glitch in TP?

I've tried a lot of ways to interrupt the warp. It just doesn't seem to have ANY window for input, queued up or not, in between the song and the warp

Razor, you're such an asshole lol

BROS LOOK, I THINK I FOUND A TRICK, BUT I WON'T EXPLAIN IT TILL IT WORKS

All I'm working on is the little tricks, but it seems that I'm on my own for most of it. I've tried to use all kinds of texts/timers to get map glitch, I think the timing may have to be a bit too percise.
Way to be a bitch. You're just like the people who think Runnerguy's no good.

Say what now?

It makes sense. Shut up.

EDIT:

Okay, so I was messing around in ET and I think it may be possible to get BK skip. What I did was get to the boss door and went right of the stairs just before it to a small ledge. I placed Medli on the edge of the ledge and grabbed the edge with a backflip and Deku Leaf to clip through the wall (it's not actually the wall; just a small area connected to the wall). Anyway I dropped down to the lower level and grabbed onto the ledge, staying within the small area and Link started jittering constantly between holding onto the ledge the right way and holding onto the ledge in a way that put him in the main wall (kinda hard to explain), but it wouldn't allow me to drop down or climb up anyway other than the right way. I don't know what to make of that because I've never seen it before, but maybe it's possible to get into the wall and round to the boss.

I have strong doubts about this working as I want, but I figured I'd share it anyway.

EDIT:

Found another way to get outside HK room without SH (doesn't require GH), not that it matters...

Also, I wonder if a WW dive from outside FF2, used to skip the KoRL talking, could be a time-saver. It looks like it.

Sounds like a good idea with the BK skip. It seems more likely to happen to work because boss doors are portal like doors, meaing that when link opens then they have a black fade out. This is compared to most normal dungeon doors--which I'll call instant doors-- where when link opens them you can instantly see the loaded room during the door opening animation. You should make a video of it so that we can help you out.

If you mean using Medli and climbing across the edge of a ledge to clip into one of the pillars, there's a wall behind there. We've tried EVERYTHING.

The FF2 dive is old, and so is the vine climbing

Can you please explain the H-Roc thing better?

Yeah that is what I meant, but it was the jittering that interested me the most.

@Cerpin - Get to the SH blockages before the sidle ledges of FF2. Deku leaf to the area with a broken ladder and a full ladder and grab the broken one in mid-air, then you just carry on to get outside the HK room. It's useless. Also, what vine thing?

Cerpin means the Medli clip/boss key skip thing.

For what it's worth, I got an arrow upgrade without SH. HOWEVER, it's totally useless, because you need Hookshot to do it. Here's what you do:

Put a bomb on the opposite side of the entrance.
Get your Hookshot out and aim at the postbox or tree, from behind the bomb.
Just before the bomb explodes, release the hookshot and slide sideways as you do it.
If you timed it right you will be in the island, but on your Hookshot, however the bomb will knock you off the Hookshot target and into the island.

I didn't word this too well, I feel. :/

EDIT:

If you try and leave, the flames knock you back in. You can savewarp out, obviously, but idk. I found it a little funny.

Brilliant. Now if we can only find a way around having to use the hookshot. And what does SH stand for?

SH = Skull Hammer. And I don't think it can work without Hookshot, because without it, I don't see how you can get into the island in the first place.

EDIT:

@Majora MIM - It's not actually an electric barrier. It's a ring of fire, not that it really matters. Anyway there's an invisible wall, which I expected anyway.

I'm not talking of that ring of fire, but of the electric barrier of the great hall exit.

You said the MS room. And if you're talking about when you first get the MS, then there are invisible walls there too.

Aaaaah! I would love to speak english a bit better...
I'm talking about the electric barrier of the exit that lead to the hyrule field, in the hall where you have the triforce puzzle.
I want to skip the "darknut fight in the MS room" not the darknut fight "in the MS room".

I understood what you were saying just fine, but there's still probably an invisible wall there.

Well there is a Darknut fight in the MS room at the end of the game, so you confused me. I do know what you mean and there are invisible walls stopping you from leaving.

Okay, I'll try to explain. After collecting all the triforce shards when you return to hyrule castle, and walk into it there are blue electric barriers keeping you from leaving without battling the darknuts. What MajoraMIM is suggesting is that we dekun leaf over those electric barriers to skip having to fight the darknuts. Not going into the MS room at all here.

Video.

I want to know what you did and this post isn't helping :(

Can you get on the IRC so we can explain all of this to each other without me going through so much typing and posting? ^^;

The electric barriers in the main room of Hyrule Castle have invisible walls over them.

I'd love to make a video. It's been over a month since I ordered a new DVD-recorder and I'm STILL waiting for it to arrive. I'll try and get in the IRC some time today anyway.

EDIT:

Thanks for the explanation, Razor.

EDIT:

Well fuck. I just found the problem, and apparently I could be looking at an additional two months, before my DVD-recorder gets here... Very annoying since there is a considerable amount of stuff I want to record.

Your welcome, and I hope you get your DVD-recorder soon. I'd like to see some new videos from you. ;D

Thanks Razor.

@Cerpin - I can't get on IRC. AVG stops me for whatever reason.

Okay, some new weird glitch.

I entered the GFI cutscene while in the water RIGHT as Link drowned (though he didn't show any signs of actually drowning, it's probably a 1 frame window), and the air globe stayed up during the entire cutscene, and even after the cutscene.

Getting in the water makes it fill, but the moment you leave the water, it drains and the empty globe is back.
Drowning without dying removes the globe.

Dying on land and continuing removes the globe.
Save and Quit removes the globe.
Going into a building removes the globe.
Getting on your boat does not remove the globe.
Going in shallow water fills your globe and doesn't drain it, but the moment you leave the shallow water it starts to drain again.

That's all that was tested so far.


Edit: Also, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBBI1HFFd-Q

EditEdit: Oh my god
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he6p1lVKPSE

we now have hovering in wind waker. works anywhere as long as you can
1. jumpslash
2. get knocked down by damage

so far its surprisingly useless??? you can enter loading zones. if you grab a heart you can stop hovering and keep going. you can throw boomerang in a hover. Also you can use the tingle tuner to end a hover and heal at any time! pretty cool, wish I had a GBA to try out some crazier sequence break ideas.

some failed ideas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcJrkyg8YHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa6u9GRixyQ

Klyde. Just. Fucking. Awesome.

If you enter an area such as GC, ToG or anything like that with that technique, will you die, and remain at that place? If that is the case then you just broke this bastard of a game. It also makes early Ganon's castle possible, which is somewhat bewildering, because Razor predicted this.

I've just got to play around with this.

EDIT:

Just saw Cosmo's vid.

I'm gunna play through WW today trying to find as many places as possible to use this.

Next TWW run will be sportive! "Fucking biceps" lol ^^

Nead more search. I'm sure we can go over the barrier and get ganon early. It needs more height.

problems with this:
1. you have to go REALLY FUKKEN HIGH UP like serious. so in order to do it, youd have to be past the damage barrier when you start it
2. when you do the "thru the barrier glitch" (spam ww until link stops flashing), and you try to do this, you get knocked back in bounds. So idk. maybe we can do it somehow but itll be pro as shit if its possible.

What if you face to the side to stop yourself getting knocked back out?

maybe, but then you have a crap angle and wont be able to reach an enemy to heal with OR the GC entrance loading zone.

klyde also says the loading zones go infinitely high which I took to mean as, "as high as the damage barrier" so I figure if we can get "above the world" with a proper angle we could dip down and touch the loading zone for GC.

the problem with this is what I've stated above.

Also the damage barrier apparently is a force that just pushes you inwards no matter how far you are past it, so the "dip down into GC" idea is the best we have (as opposed to reaching the peahat and healing)

tingle is unavailable at this area apparently as well, so more limited options.

Gaining height is going to require some crazy mashing. Especially that much height. I'm probably going to get a turbo controller today (SDA doesn't allow them right?).

I'm struggling to think of places where this could be used. If it's possible to grab a heart in mid-air to stop you from dying then this could be very useful. Otherwise I can't think of anywhere (other than the possibility of GC) and I'm really trying.

I'm assuming that switching quadrants will just take you back to the quadrant where you started (KoRL). Although what if you could do this before you meet KoRL? Die from a pig on Outset, switch quadrants and you may be warped to KoRL at Windfall. It'd probably be slower and way, way harder, but interesting anyway.

Ani tested some of my GC early theories with a turbo controller.

not nearly enough height.

yes you CAN get a heart while hovering to end your hover and be able to move around etc.

How did you do it? Boomerang in mid-air? I wasn't sure if you'd fall too fast for that to work.

EDIT:

Btw, does anyone have any idea why I can't get on IRC?

Isn't it possible to drink Elixir Soup before you die? In that case I have an idea how to skip the trails in Ganon's Tower. If drinking the soup before doesn't work and we can get over the Hyrule Castle barrier then we just do the Zombie Hovering in the direction of the Ganon's Tower entrance and then my trails skip theory will fail too. Also, if drinking the soup before dying works then we can get to Ganondorf without Hookshot! Maybe we can break this game after all.

You can't use bottled items in mid-air.

EDIT:

Ani tells me you can with Tingle Tuner.

I meant using the soup when you touch the ground

I don't think items can be used in that small time frame. It'd stop you being able to hover anyway. Unless you mean when you land after doing the hover in which case I don't know.

If there's a way over the hc barrier then I mean using it when you are at the road and touch it. Or just use the glitch in the entrance direction. If there's a way to skip the trails by landing in the landing zone, you mash Y or X to drink when you're through. At ganondorf I mean when you land on the little place at the entrance to the roof.

WOW! This is awesome trick!! Great job Klyde!! We really need to break TWW more!

I know what I will play when I get my TWW from my sister. I really hope this will turn out to be great glitch!

About that ganon's castle barrier I have tested that wall with levitation long time ago and I can only say it's not gonna happen with that hover from inside of barrier. You need to get other side of that hurting wall and then somehow hover. Also that barrier wall is goes around of hyrule castle and it's about ten times higher that cosmo hovered. One more thing what you guys should also know is if you somehow get another side of barrier. Then when I touch ground on other side if I remember correctly there is force what is pulling link back to the hyrule castle like wind in snowpeak in MM. So maybe this is not gonna happen anytime soon.

Still after all this stuff I really want to test this fucking awesome find out! Great job!!!! ^_^

DRAGON ROOST CAVERN BOSS KEY SKIP YEEAAAAHHHHH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TW92E8Cww

Enter Forbidden Woods without Deku Leaf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R8RejCohLM



Dunno if it's worth anything, I was just trying to do SOMETHING with this awesome new hovering glitch.

Great find Klyde! We're going to need a new route pretty soon.

Keep Makar in Wind Temple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU7jYujSUgM

Skip Wind Temple Boss Key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4PHpPSiK4c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4PHpPSiK4c)

Now I really love how this game is so broken in few days! I hope this will continue and will come like oot!

Awesome job guys, I can't believe the day has finally come where TWW will now fall apart. My gaming days are over :( I rather watch you guys rip this game a new asshole haha

Found some tricks.

WT First Room Balloon Trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5yijyRRUso

DRC Chart Early (useful to 100%)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaEvqjdxV98

Skip all of Cabana Sewers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGmYJm9mQ4o

Skip Ganon's Castle trials

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SO6YFcveNk

You are the man Parax! No hovering!

I think it is important to write down what we know so far, with all the new breaks:

You need hammer to beat ET and enter WT.
You need to beat PG to get hammer
You need MS to beat PG
Early MS requires beating FF2
Beating FF2 turns it to FF3, which gets rid of PG.
Hyrule 1 after Hyrule 2 crashes the game (from what we know)
Jabun's Pearl after Hyrule 2 crashes the game
Raising ToG after ff2 = crash
You need to beat FF2 to obtain F&I arrows
You need quiver to shoot arrows
You need hookshot and F&I arrows to skip trials
Bombs early just requires endless night (visit greatfish)
Bottle skip requires bombs early, which is too slow for any% so you have to get delivery bag (this item might be skippable in low% if we get into cabana)

Also, going near the MS in Hyrule 2 early, crashes the game if you've done a certain trigger. Ani's game didn't crash, he didn't have Jabun's pearl yet or raise ToG. Venick's game crashed, and he had risen ToG and gotten the bow.

All right, I know I caused some confusion yesterday with talk of a 20-second Tingle Balloon from Koolooh Limpah, so I decided to test it myself. There is definitely a Shield and Balloon combo, however, it only lasts 10 seconds, not 20 like the book said. I tested it 50 times on Outset and here are the results I got:

Potion: 16
Shield (20 s): 13
Shield+Balloon (10 s): 13
Nothing: 8

I then went to the Wind Temple to see if it worked there. I got it on the third try and easily crossed the gap in the first room. So yeah, definitely a segmenting trick.

Bait Bag Skip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnW-JfDVRHQ

Nope, that should be doable with an orb ledge clip off the door. Have fun in the hell that is setting that up, though...

Alright, we've been testing the barrier around hyrule castle, flags and whatnot. Here's what we know:

Hero's sword will not destroy the barrier, even after doing all of the natural route flags.
Darknut battle in hyrule castle in third visit of Hyrule must be completed, you cannot skip it.
The pearls are not a flag.
The triforce item itself is not a flag.
[more to come]

Ganondorf CAN be beaten with ANY shield and sword, even the measly little Hero's Sword.


Also, Puppet Ganon skip will currently not work without a way to heal before dying without Tingle, or an angle change mid-hover.

You cannot burn the pot's covering from the bottom of the room.
You cannot gain enough height fast enough to be close enough to the pot to fire a Fire Arrow or to drop a Bomb near it.
Even though you can gain height fast enough to get into the Ganondorf battle, dying in it results in being taken back before Puppet Ganon.


Edit: Parax found a way to heal, using the Keese Puppet Ganon summons as a way to heal.

Could somebody pleasetestthe following:

Clip through wall near where the original trail skip clips, but on the ground level. Then leaf pump your way over to the trail door loading zone. Maybe you will retain just enough height to get in it. If this would work the only thing stopping us from H2 -> Ganon would be the barrier around hyrule castle and we will crack that, too. :D

I highly doubt that would work because there's nowhere to stand on the other side of the wall, meaning you'd need to start the glide from just below the floor level on the door, which puts you about level with the door leading out of trials, so unless leaf pumping makes it so you don't lose any height at all, not gonna work. also, you need ice arrows to do the clip, and fire/ice arrows are not available until after FF2 and in turn hyrule 2.

Never got any orbs off a bokoblin? Weird, bokoblin is about the only enemy I'm not 100% certain drops an orb. I'm somewhat sure even beamos do, you just never kill them in runs to take notice...

Oh yeah, we don't need the WGA anymore for WT, just throwing that out there...

FF2 Ganondorf scene gives you Hero's Shield too.


Edit: I just thought of a great idea that failed miserably, but I'll post it anyways.

Before you have the Sail or Wind Waker, saving anywhere (that doesn't overwrite your save flag) meant being taken back to Windfall. Since your save flag is set to Windfall, I thought that maybe we can go to FF2, get EMS, then savewarp back to Windfall, then go back to FF and hopefully it would be FF2 instead of FF3, and we could get Skull Hammer. Unfortunately, Hyrule 2 overwrites Windfall's save flag with its own, so that was a bust.

Then, someone mentioned Outset. Outset's save flag seems to have a godly high priority over all other save flags that are not in the real sequence of save flags (Outset > Pirate Ship > FF1 > Windfall), as it's dependent on if you have been to certain areas (that aren't even on the map, if I may add), and on KoRL's existence in the world or not.

Whether or not this is possible, I tested what getting to FF2 from Outset with your Save Flag still set there does. Since you didn't complete FF1, this means that KoRL isn't in existence yet. Because of this, the scene at the start of Hyrule 2 glitches out. Tetra is flipped 90 degrees, and Link walks into a wall forever, soft-locking the game.

I tried Majora's idea about using the Forest Water text box to cancel the damage barrier. It didn't work.

However, while testing MajoraMIM's idea, I found a way to lock the camera in place by pulling out the Wind Waker right as the Forest Water expires. If you do any action that changes the camera, it will get stuck like that.

However, the important part, if you lock the camera with the Wind Waker, then go into water, you can hold up, and Link will keep turning around repeatedly. This causes Link to build speed rapidly, up to insane levels. Once you let go, Link will fly backwards through the water at amazing speeds (if you spun long enough), and even allows you to travel between islands.

Of course, there's always a downside. Forest Water takes 20 minutes to expire. Shitty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqL9KogfAA0

Throw the bomerang on a molblin without sword will also lock up the camera.
I'm sure there's other ways to lock the camera.

Storage. I expect some weird things from this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N3GDe0eaIE

Only thing I've found with collection delay so far is if you go read the WGA tablet (or according to cerpin, the Wind's Requiem tablet) after interrupting the Wind Waker, you turn invisible. while invisible everything works like normal except you can't pause. If you go into a sequence that locks your controls, it displays the tablet's text. All that except the turning invisible part happens with the sail too.

You guys have found a lot of breaks since I've been gone. ;D The collection delay is what I was trying to do with the chu jelly way back when. I may have figured out a way to get into hyrule field early without hovering around the barrier. I'll test it soon.

Forbidden Woods Boss Key skip.

Unfortunately requires Forest Water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2LmSIKcBTU

Cabana Deed Skip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKMRQzK-dYo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKMRQzK-dYo)

Also unfortunately requires Forest Water.

Nice finds. You never know how Forest Water could fit into a speedrun (assuming it doesn't expire is you save and quit) so depending on how much time these tricks save and whereabouts in the new route they'd be, they could (and should) be used.

The timer on forest water is paused when you save and resumes when you resume playing that file. I've done a ton of testing with forest water and am glad to see that my old theory of collection delay with chu jelly has turned into something useful with the windwaker. I have a few ideas of my own with this. Also, there is no doubt that forest water can be properly used in a speedrun.
@Phazon
Here's a great button mash technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppDO4ZBiXuo. Tell me how it works out.

With the aid of chest collection delay, I have managed to get the quiver without the hookshot or hammer. Basically, with the chest delay active, go to where the vines and doorway meet, and walk up the doorway (you'll get hit a lot). If you can manage to get high enough you'll clip in. Easy as butts, I got it in about 2 minutes my first time.

I didn't know quiver upgrades had vines blocking the entrance, I thought it was a ring of fire. Maybe that's just the case for one of them? Either way nice find Cerpin.

Looks like you got around to testing this before I did. Can you use the quiver? Klyde told me if there was a way to get it early you couldn't use it.
EDIT:
If you do collection delay, then pull out the WW, then pull out the telescope the game locks up.

If you get fire/ice arrows also, you have a fully functional bow.

There's another one of my old ideas proven. It would sure be nice if we could get an endless air gauge.

You can't use it without the item that uses the capacity upgrade in your inventory.

So then what happens when you get the fire/ice arrows before the bow, what does the obtained item look like?

I could have sworn I said it in this topic already, but the Fire/Ice Arrow is its own item, it doesn't add special properties to the Bow, it IS the Bow with two more Arrow choices, same goes for the Light Arrow.

Proof that puppet is possible (but hard for your muscles) on console: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF_ZrAf_GY8

Got it on tape http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Yw5ZHFHW8. Hope that I can get it to work on more solid ground too.

Some new stuff I've found over the last few days

Earth Temple Boss Key skip without hover or collection delay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M-F42CzwD0)
Skipping Skull Hammer - Entering Gale Isle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxZFDb2ODp8)
Skipping Skull Hammer - Cabana Sewers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFyMnmp3v2c)
Skipping Skull Hammer - Getting Mirror Shield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIzm7jskTjg)

Would be great if someone could confirm that that last one is doable without turbo.

I'm sure that MajoraMIM would confirm that the skull hammer skip in the earth temple is possible manually. I'm still aiming at ganon's castle early. Then the SH wouldn't be an issue. Also, what happens when you try to draw the MS after getting EMS?

Awesome. The last one was especially awesome. Great finds.

The scene doesn't activate, or the game crashes.

What I thought. I need to get a turbo controller so that I can zombie hover.

Skip the final Skull Hammer requirement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBT7cxV0SK4)

Skull Hammer is now skippable. xP

Nice.

guys I gotta go back to WW this new breaks are awesome!!! congrats to paraxade ;D

Great job for this skull hammer skip! But can we skip FF2 or the skull hammer itself in FF2?

EDIT: I just found a way to skip skull hammer in FF2. I'm uploading the vid on yt.

Been done a while ago now... Skull Hammer is completely skippable now.

Anyway here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEvS972WV-k

I did it in FF3 but it should work in FF2. Sorry for the mistakes, I recorded it without precise route.
As you can see, doing this in FF3 cause a strange gamecrash I don't know what do the message on the top of screen mean.

yep, nice job but FF2 without skull hammer has already been done. It'd be weird if we said skull hammer was skippable but we forgot about the very first spot you're supposed to use it, which also happens to be by far the most skull hammer-heavy area. guess it's nice to have it vidded somewhere tho.

:o You guys are awesome!

I've been lurking this forum for a while but never bothered to make an account until I found out you broke WW.

Can anyone link me to a video or something about EMS because i've seen it mentioned but don't now how its done. Also where do these ideas for glitches come from? I'd love to join in and try to help further break WW but I have no previous experience with glitching and have no clue where to start.

It is kind of hard to keep up with all that's been found without reading all pages of this discussion. From what I know there are no videos on EMS because it crashes the game in so many spots. If you want to know how to do zombie hover etc., feel free to ask me or visit Klydestorm's channel as he discovered most of this, but also don't forget about Paraxade0.

Oh cool thanks, I've checked out alot of the videos posted in this thread recently. I'm not great at button mashing and so can only zombie hover for a split second.

Does anyone know what new things are being researched or need to be discovered right now?
AFAIK we don't have a ToG boss key skip yet? Does anyone think that is feasible?

Or are we trying to skip it completely since we can get the bow from the Fire/Ice arrows?

That will waste time because you have to get the boss key to get out to the area where the boss door is.

Oh ok, i knew that... ::)

Been a while since i've done ToG.

I wonder about:

-What happen if you let KoRL go in a Giant Squid area (with damage to get out of KoRL) then swim and get back on him. (just a question I thought about, I don't think this would have any use)

-What happen if you do a WW dive when forest water expire. (the answer is nothing more than WW dive I think)

-What happen if you try to lift Jalhalla without bracelet.

-What happen if you try to lift a heavy object with delay glitch on... Maybe there would be a way to lift heavy objects without bracelets...



EDIT: Hy Dashiamo! Welcome on ZSR, for now you can just think to new uses of hover and delay glitches.

Thanks, just to be sure. Delay glitch is to do with activating the Wind Waker when forest water timer expires right?
It causes Link to be in open chest mode so you can clip into walls?

Also i'm not sure how to do this but I think we should put some of the new glitches on the Wind Waker homepage as right now there isn't much there compared to OOT or MM.

Superswim something like 1,5 case east out of the map cause an instant drowning.


Yeah, it also allows you to superswim with the wind waker.

Tested, you can't lift Jalhalla.

Ok, so we can forget about heavy objects and bracelets stories.

And what happen when you active delay glitch during helmaroc king fight, then zombie hover to skip the battle?

You go into a warp, and Storage can't store a load point, so nothing.

We are just trying to polish up speed tricks in various dungeons, but a big thing that at least I'm working on is ganon's castle early; also requires a new method of skipping the trials--but I've almost gotten that out of the way--. Here's some hover advice: touch the end of your thumb to the end of your index finger, then position your thumb over B and your index finger over A. After that simply flex your arm and practice.

Who was it that's trying to find a new ganon trial skip? If you could eliminate the hookshot from the trial skip process, could we just skip hookshot all together by hovering in WT?



edit: but then there's the matter of molgera

Yes and no. No it couldn't be skipped in the WT because it's needed to beat Molgera, but it would then be skippable once early ganon's tower is dicovered. If you want to know what the low% items are look at animeowzerz channel, the only item that he missed skipping was the Cabana deed. Also, note that in an any% skipping some of the items ani did--like the deku leaf--would waste too much time.

Trials skip, no Ice Arrows or Hookshot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQCVun58ZeE

However, something big, you can ledgeclip off pushable objects, not just unmovable ones.

This is something I was trying to prove a while ago.

Wait, so you can ledge clip off a bomb? Did you use the delay glitch to slightly clip first or was it solely the bomb?

Light Arrows skip!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9h-mXQRPiU)

also:


no offense, but it seems like you've thought of every other trick that gets found, so why haven't you found anything?

No Storage, just normal ledgeclipping but with a bomb, or any other object, movable or not.

Oh cool, that's really awesome then. Does anyone know how many forest waters are needed for all current skips?

Edit: just saw light arrow skip, how do you guys find so many breaks so fast?

Well, the two hammer skips in the Earth Temple require a forest water each, and there's another one required for Light Arrows skip, one for Cabana Deed skip... so four unless I'm forgetting something. Sucky, but meh.

How many bottles are we planning on getting? I figure it's slower to get deku leaf early so we get 1 from entering DRC. And isn't there an easy one to get in a sub while sailing from DRC to forest or something?

With 2 bottles and warps it would require 3 individual trips to forest for water I think. (1 for ET skips, 1 for deed skip and 1 for light arrow skip)

You can only have one forest water at a time.

I get easily frustrated with testing, I test a lot of stuff at once, and I was gone on vacation. I hope to discover ganon's tower early in a few days so I can hopefully call that my own. My zombie hover needs practice so I can't test with that either. I just hope that the glitches I'm coming up with now nobody else has the same ideas for.
EDIT:
Only two forest waters necessary should be FW BK skip and skip Phantom Ganon. If Gohdan is skippable then the bow is obsolete too.

Oh... Well now I feel a bit stupid :P

In that case route planning will be difficult with needing to get water aprox. 20 mins before it's needed  :-\
So what are the current theories on early Ganons tower?

The goal of Ganon's tower early is to hover (or clip) over the repulsive barrier all around the castle.
There could be some options to test:
-Change direction during hovering, then you may can hover high enough to get behind. But there's no known way to turn in hover.
-Clip behind the wall that is behind the barrier. But Kazooie tested to walk on the other side and said that there's a force pushing you back to the castle.

note: I've already tried to hover inside the bridge.

you can't hover high enough to get over the tower. for some reason the barrier actually has a ceiling.

You cannot? I can easily levitate there. Or does it make some difference?

BTW really good job to breaking WW guys! I love all of you ^^

More information for that ganon castle early. About that barrier thing and that force what I sayed. I tested it more and I levitated over of that barrier thing. Then dropped other side of it and walked there. There was no any force to push you. When I get to the ganon's castle and got out then there is that barrier hurting you. That barrier is like that barrier around hyrule castle. It keep hurting link and he will always keep falling towards to hyrule castle. I hope this will help you guys.

I think we need to come up with new ways of ganon's castle early because the barrier is obviously to high to hover over. I have a better plan to test today. This will be the final key to speedrunning WW.

Well I found this video on chutube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCOYXy67bk&playnext_from=TL&videos=E6zatMU75Mw
Now hes using cheats to clip through, but even before he uses the speed cheat he only gets knocked back, not pulled to the castle.

Isn't there maybe an enemy somewhere behind there that could spawn a heart, so we don't have to change directions during the hover?

Btw. is there really no way to WW/Tetra clip through the damage barrier and then forest water clip through the invisible wall?

It would be somewhat pointless to use forest water to clip through the invisible wall because then we couldn't skip the light arrow/Phantom Ganon. Even so, there's no chest to use for storage for the clip.

I've tried that and atleast I couldn't get it to work.

The damage barrier extends everywhere outside of the circle around Hyrule Castle. You can cancel it by using the Wind Waker on the exact frame you stop flashing, just like you can up by the invisible wall.

I don't thinking clipping through the barrier/invisible wall is going to be an option.

So just to be sure. Early tower is straight after ToG before we grab MS and restore colour?
Just wanted to be sure so next time I get the chance I can play a file up until that point for testing.

Also for anyone who can emulate WW can you post your specs because my comp doesn't seem to be able to run it fast enough to make it playable

Early GT is either then or after FF2, of which it would be more beneficial after completing ToG.

? ems -> ganons tower should be more beneficial.

I'm sorry, Slowking, but I don't understand your question.

Not a question, a statement.

Awe, I see it now. I don't always remeber all the acronyms. I don't think that EMS will be of use in a speedrun because if its various crashes, but through in a P after the E and then you'll see something more useful.

EDIT:
I think I've figured out how to corrupt cutscenes in WW.

... Aren't you going to tell us?

Wow Klyde. This is the first time I recall you being interested in one of my theories. Of course I'll tell you. I just came up with the idea this evening, so I'll test it tomorrow. I also think that in an any% run we are going to need two bottles, but the bottle submarine is on the way from DR to FH so it shouldn't cost much time.

I'm somewhat interested by what you call it (though I don't think it'll live up to that name), but how could I ever show any interest in any of your theories when you never actually share anything about them besides what they might do? We hear one thing about them, and then never again until you eventually say how your theory worked after someone finds something. It's really aggravating. At least share what your theory was after you test it if you're worried about credit. Maybe someone else would have an idea of what to do with it. Stop keeping secrets.

...wtf

ähm various? The only ones I'm aware of are sounding the bell on tog and the master sword room. but the master sword room not consistently.
We'd never visit any of these places if we had barrier skip.

I have tried to give out my ideas for testing, but no one ever shows any interest. Then a few weeks later someone finds something with a theory practically identical to mine and gives me no credit for idea help. It's more aggravating for me then for any of you. I don't make false find claims. I still need to test it but here's my plan: I was thinking the other day that there has to be some way of distorting/corrupting the cutscene where you draw the MS, which made me think of OoT. The only recapturable bottle item in WW is the forest firefly, so I was thinking of doing corruption similar to OoT.
Hopefully, here's where I'll probably lose you, by corrupting the scene you'll be able to draw the MS, but not activate the cutscene so it's still in the pedestal. Drawing it multiple times with this could--hopefully-- result in EPMS; game overiting. This is the most likely of my many EPMS+GT early theories.
@Slowking
I hope this also helps you get the idea.

Well, generally, you have to give us an idea of what it is you're doing before we can show interest.


Yeah, corruption isn't really the right word, it's more of displacing Link during the scenes to potentially mess them up.

I'm not sure that will work, because the moment the scene starts, it changes the flag that removes the Master Sword from the pedestal. I know this because when you try to use Storage on the scene, the scene will start anyways, and Link will get crushed (for some reason), and the Master Sword is gone. You don't even get it, so you're trapped forever.

Another thing though, I don't think getting it multiple times will "upgrade" it, as the Hero's Sword, 0/2 Master Sword, 1/2 Master Sword, and 2/2 Master Sword are all different items. The scenes that give them to you do just that, give you that item. It isn't the same item being upgraded. So, if we can somehow fight Molgera with say, the 0/2 Master Sword, we'll get 2/2 Master Sword rather than the 1/2 Master Sword. The game was programmed in a way that you couldn't get the power ups out of order.

However, I like the idea of using the Forest Firefly similar to the Fish to mess up scenes like in OoT. Unfortunately, what I'm thinking, is that the bottle swinging has higher priority over the scene, and it'll put the scene trigger off until after the animation ends.

You should still definitely test it.

I did a little bit of testing with it today and the problem with it is that Link doesn't lurch forward while swinging the bottle like he does in OoT. I'm trying to come up with other theories concerning forest fireflies, but don't really have any yet. If you have any suggestions please feel free to tell me and I'll test them.

I'm not sure if it's possible but can you use a bomb to push you over the trigger then use the bottle?

Another idea is if you can hover to the trigger then use a bottle the frame you hit the ground to activate the CS.

I'm not sure if anything I'm saying is at all possible but I'm just throwing out ideas. I haven't had any time to really try stuff myself.

I also had the idea of using a bomb to push link into the cutscene. I'll test it, but I don't think it will work. You don't really need to hover to the cutscene activation you can just use the deku leaf, but I never thought of trying to use the bottle the second link hits the ground; it's probably TAS timing though, with either hover or the DL.

From what I see, TAS timing is more than just a 1 frame window to hit a button. Once you get to any real level of difficulty, that can be commonplace. If that is TAS timing, then Jiano pulling off TAS level input to duplicate bottles in the ss. Mind you, its not a trick you can keep doing in an ss, but a lot of segmenting tricks fit that just as well...

I just came up with a new idea today. If the ganondorf cutscene in FF2 gives you 0/2 MS early, then would a cutscene involving 2/2 MS give you EPMS? The only possible cutscene I could think of for this was the duel darknut battle in the MS room possibly. I'm not sure if it would give us EPMS and/or if it could be triggered early.

It doesn't.

Thanks for telling me. I'm still testing a few ideas for early GT, but nothing is working. I'm really trying to avoid using forest water so we can still skip the light arrow.

so yeah... ToG/hyrule 1 skip dead ends in hyrule 3. you can't destroy the barrier. :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vODpzjNc0M

So what if we complete ToG and skip the barrier during hyrule 1. Can we then go on to skip trials, light arrow skip, puppet ganon skip and then beat gannondorf with hero sword and shield?

assuming we could get past the barrier, yes.

why cant past the barrier with zombie hover? there are a invisibe ceilling or anything like these? Collection delay cant help? This barrier sucks :(

There's no way to hover all the way up without getting hit by the barrier.

Marcus is right Nokaubure. The barrier is too high, has a ceiling, and zombie hover is far from being vertical, which means you'll hit the barrier every time. Collection delay has already been tested and it doesn't do anything.

I have no video of it yet but I've almost done hero sword skip in FF1...
Go all the way up on the middle tower, take damage from the bokoblin then pick a stick.
From the tower you can face the door that leads to helmaroc cutscene and jump down on the wood boat (the one you use for Gossip text skip). Link will take 1/4 damage and keep the stick so you can quickly do a sidehop and start mashing B for zombie hover. It requires insanely fast mashing (but possible I think) to reach the top of FF. With the good angle I'm sure we can reach the loading zone and skip 70% of FF1 (and maybe the sword that would surely lead to interesting results).


It's really hard to start the sidejump-stick-hover because of the very short frame windows before dying from fall damage. I get it one time for 20 tries. So if someone with a turbo controller could try to, it would be nice.

Happy 4th of July! ;D ;D ;D

Okay, I've just done it on Dolphin (hard to get it, took me ages). I'm on windfall now with no hearts. what should I try or do next.

so, a few things It would be cool to try is going back for hero's sword (from FF) after getting MS, not sure how possible this is because you kinda need the sword for quite a lot before you can get MS (or even skull hammer)

not a clue what to do, but first thing's first, get sail and go to DRI

Wind Temple in 16 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzUY5ztTZxY

Skips a Small Key, and never rescues Makar.

Out of curiousity, would it be possible to hover to Ganon's chamber and get EMS a lot earlier?
Anyway, got a new theory for GT early. As Paraxade has proven, 2/2 MS is not what causes the RB to break. My theory being that the two things that do trigger the RB breaking CS are:
A.) 0/2 MS having been drawn with or without completing H1
B.) Darknut CS in MS Chamber having been activated and/or completed
The idea is that if we can find a way to activate the Darknut CS early--during H1 or otherwise--then the RB can be broken with 0/2 MS, though I do need ideas for activating this CS early. Any suggestions?  ???

No. Ganondorf's chamber is in the same map as the Helmaroc battle, which is loaded when you go into the door at the end. In FF1, a scene starts there automatically, of course, so no chance of that...

But on the subject of the barrier breaking, 2/2 MS is DEFINITELY a flag. I tested it before, and none of the other swords can break the barrier, even at the point where 2/2 MS can.

Also, it's no theory that the Darknuts in the MS chamber being dead is a flag, it most certainly is a flag. The Darknut scene is triggered when you have the full Triforce, so we need the Triforce there, too. Also, the scene that opens the warp to Hyrule 3 is triggered when we have the full Triforce and 2/2 MS.

It was just a small idea, no big deal. I guess I'll just keep on trying to come up with other theories on this break.

Klyde has done extensive testing on this so I tend to believe him when he talks about these things. My understanding of Hyrule 3 is-

-To be able to enter the warp to go to Hyrule 3, you need 2/2 MS and the completed Triforce.
-For the Darknuts to be in the basement, you need the completed Triforce.
-To make the electrical barrier in the main room in the castle disappear, you need to kill the Darknuts in the basement.
-To destroy the barrier, you need 2/2 MS and for the electrical barrier in the main room to disappear.

The reason it's broken when you skip Hyrule 1 is because the electrical barrier never appears, meaning the flag for it disappearing is never set, which therefore makes it impossible to destroy the barrier. So without barrier skip we absolutely need to properly draw the MS to beat the game. One possible solution we did some testing on was trying to pull the MS in Hyrule 2. While it is possible to get into the basement in its Hyrule 1 state during Hyrule 2, when you try to approach the MS, either the game freezes, or nothing happens. So it seems rather unlikely the ToG/Hyrule 1 skip is going to happen unless we get barrier skip, which negates everything that went into the ToG/Hyrule 1 skip anyway. Pretty shitty. The only way there will ever be a major (and helpful for speedrunning) break in Wind Waker will be barrier skip - at this point, being able to get past the barrier would let us finish the game during Hyrule 1, which will effectively skip absolutely everything following ToG - no FF2, Earth Temple, Wind Temple, or Triforce hunt. Getting past the barrier is going to require either some absurd precision and ingenuity, or a new clipping technique. I took a look at it a bit earlier and came up with a couple theories but mostly ended up empty, maybe I'll try again sometime soon.

That's why I'm spending so much time on it. The truth about WW is that zombie hover can't get us everywhere, so we need to find some new stuff.

So the barrier skip is the last "barrier" to a new WW speed run?

I don't have much creativity or expirience when it comes to breaking games but i'll try to see what I can find when I eventually get a file there.
Also assuming we get a barrier skip and need forest water for Light Arrow skip do we need to get the water before ToG and be quick enough to make it there in 20 mins?

I dont known if ToG can be done in 20 minutes, count the time sailing etc. But i see some good breaks in ToG.

Fairy's can be a idea to pass barrier? like the slimy thing in oot, with a fairy you can pass throw the slimy. So my idea is: put a bomb in the correct distance, so, when the bomb hits link, link doesnt touch the barrier, now fairy revive link, and link pass the barrier or get hurted to the oposed side. I need to try it. I have a GBA with cable too

In fact we can already get behing the barrier. The problem is the invisible wall behind it.


Btw, if we find a way to skip Makar's help in WT, would it possible to skip earth temple?

I got the forest water right after collecting the BK in ToG and by the time that I beat Gohdan, solved MS puzzle, and saved, it had already been 5 mins. and I was pretty fast. I'll try to work on a forest water route for this after GT early is finished.
@MajoraMIM
It would seem so, but we'd need to get into the WT without Makar, skip the two times we need him, or find a way to get Makar to WT early.

to get Makar, you need the song from the kokiri guy? or the song isnt needed?

I don't see the problem.

Wait so there is the repulsive damage barrier then immediately an invisible wall?
So if I want to help I guess I should look into a way of clipping through the wall. We need a clipping method that doesn't involve ledges?

Technically, there is a tiny bit of space between the RB and the invisible wall. Check it out if you're curious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfqTH1ZrW0g. I'm doing a bit of testing with ledge clipping to see if we can clip through the barrier and the wall, though an alternative way of clipping would be nice, as my method involves zombie hover, which means I need to buy one of those cables to attach my GBA to my GC.

Well it will probably be quicker to just get quiver and light arrows.


Btw. if we were to get barriere skip would Hyrule1 be faster or EMS-Hyrule2?



You do know that tingle won't help you in Hyrule, right?

Hyrule1 should be faster because I believe that H1 will be the only option to GT early. It's just an assumption for now though. I wasn't sure if tingle could help in Hyrule or not. As I don't have the cable, I also don't know the places that tingle can't help besides in GT.

Can Phantom Ganon be damaged with the hero's sword to get to the light arrows? I haven't fought him in a while but I remember having to hit him once each time to make him drop the sword.

Edit: Just realised. Do we have to get MS to get outside to barrier? If so ignore my above stupidity.

Phantom Ganon in FF can only be damaged with MS. So I assume that it's the same in Ganons Castle. But it should probably be tested when we have barriere skip.

If he can only be damaged by MS we will have to either do EMS or draw the MS, with all the cutscene that is involved...

I'm pretty sure that only the MS can damage PG, though any sword can damage Ganondorf. Yep, I definitly think that ToG will be faster than EMS. How long does it even take to hover to FF2 for EMS?

18 minutes-ish?

Then is it even a question that running through ToG is definitly faster than hovering to FF2 to get EMS?

öhm yeah. I'm pretty sure 18 minutes-ish is from hovering into FF2 to Hyrule 2. No way hovering into FF2 takes that long... unless you have to hover from the next island. Could somebody clearify?

Anyway. EMS would save us getting Jabus Pearl, raising ToG, clearing ToG, all that cutscene crap of the master sword and clearing Hyrule castle from the enemies.
But ofcourse it would cost us hovering into FF2, clearing FF2 and that cutscene crap at Ganons and the unraised ToG.

Should be close...

If corrupting the MS drawing CS is how early GT will be done--not yet confirmed--then EMS won't be an option. As it looks now, zombie hover is not how we are going to get to GT early, unless an indirect relationship of the two is involved.

@Slowking - Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I timed Ani doing EFF2 and I seem to remember it taking around 18 minutes. He didn't use the closest island to FF though (forgot about that in that last post).

I'm pretty sure we can't zombie hover to GT early? Even if we could get over/around the barrier the angle to GT isn't straight and so we would need a way of changing angle. Or we could heal off the enemies behind the barrier but the constant knockback from the barrier makes it difficult as we have to restart the hover every couple of seconds.

I've been experimenting but have come up with nothing so far. I was using a bomb to blast myself through the damage barrier and then once behind trying various things to prevent getting knocked out.
The problem is that I can only stay behind the barrier for about a second before I get knocked out and so have virtually no time to attempt to break through the invisible wall.

Have to give the developers some credit here, they got it locked down pretty tight... Then again, thats what we used to think about the rest of Wind Waker

Take out the Wind Waker at the same time as you stop flashing red, now you can move inside the barrier as long as you want without getting knocked down untill you take damage from something else such as bombs.

Well somebody really needs to get TAS Dolphin set up and test all the theories again. I remember a lot of things that were thought impossible in OoT and MM, but once TAS confirmed that they are indeed possible people started doing them on console, too.
For example I still think it might be possible to clip through the damage barriere while being undead...

Is there no spot directly at FF where you can hover from? Or does the King not let you in the proximety of FF without MS?
If the King is the problem and we don't need forest water to skip the barrier we could ofcourse superswim to FF... Then we might even be able to just WW dive into it...

Ugh, totally forgot about superswim. It doesn't really matter now, but I just timed the hover to FF2 as 14 minutes, not 18.

So the King won't let you near FF without MS? I haven't played TWW in a long time so I don't remember. If that's the problem and FF has a little land outside of it we should be able to just WW dive into it. No hover needed.

So the ideal route would probably be:
Dragon roost -> forest haven -> bottle forest water -> get deku leaf and do forbidden woods -> get bombs -> get quiver -> superswim to FF -> WW dive into FF (or maybe you can just clip the doors with super swim speed) -> EMS -> barriere skip -> GT

Now we only have to get this to work. XD

Btw. how did you time Anis EMS hover? is there a video. The only one I know of starts in FF2.

Edit: Just saw Anis bombs early video. Maybe that would be a good option, too. Doing bombs early instead of Dragon Roost and Forbidden Woods. We would only need to get bottle and Deku leaf and never set foot into any of the dungeons...

I think bombs early route would be:

DRI (with WW, Bottle and Tingle Tuner) > GFI with hover > WFI (Idk if KoRL would warp to GFI or not so might need another hover if it's possible from GFI without bombs) > Get bombs > FH > Get deku leaf and forest water > Four-Eyed Reef (Closest island to FF) > Superswim to FF2 > EMS > Barrier skip > GT.

Whether or not that'd be faster, idk.

EDIT:

Pointless trick. If you go in the back entrance of the bomb shop, sidle and crouch on the little gap you crawled in through, you get stuck and have to savewarp to get out.

Yes the game developers did plan the path to GT wisely, but there is surely a way to get past it never the less.
@Slowking & Phazon
The routes that you vaguely outline here need some rethinking. I can see a few areas where we'd waste more time then we'd save. As soon as early GT is found, we need to crack down on timing and testing routes--especially forest water routes--and find any finishing timesavers and smaller sequence breaks. I don't want to cut out skipping Phantom Ganon yet.
@Slowking
TAS testing will not be necessary, as we are already testing on a console what would just begin to be understood with TAS.

Yeah, I didn't say the bomb-early route was faster though...

I think Slowking took it that way though.
EDIT:
Would a turbo controller be allowed by SDA regulations?

No.

Not really. Was just an idea. But since korl is a little bitch and doesn't let you go anywhere before you've done the first two dungeons it's really not an option.

Btw. it really gets on my nerve how pople here say "Oh TAS can't do anything to help". TAS is great for testing shit. MM and OoT have had a lot of breaks that were found by TAS and only later done on console.

I'm not saying that TAS can't do anything, I'm simply saying that TAS is not the best option for testing right now. Testing with TAS has been done before in WW, and because of TAS's perfect timing, it makes many of it's finds useless on a console for WW.

I have seen a shitload of tricks in OoT and MM that were considered TAS only. Sooner or later some runners could do all of them consistntly on console... well maybe except the Tektite hover in OoT, but that's really the only one console runners can't do.

Even if a barriere skip found by TASing would only have a one frame window, it would still be viable, since it would be at the beginning of a segment.

I agree with this.

Anyway, I've found a way to get onto the side wall of the bridge where the barrier is, without zombie hovering or dying. you can't hang off either side though so no chance of hang clip. I'll have a video up soon.

hmm but maybe you can do something with forest water clip in there... probably not but maybe.

and here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7nXt-WbZJI
needs double magic

Interesting find, though for the most optimized barrier skip, we won't have the hookshot. Anyway, I found a new forest water glitch yesterday. I'll try to put a video up soon, but windows movie maker is glitching up. Does anyone know what to do when it says there is no camera attached, but it is and it's turned on? I can't figure it out.

so, if we skip the first barrier, there are a 2nd barrier, and then a 3rd barrier?! lmao 3 barriers, nintendo is very crazy  ;D

Screw optimisation. If you need the Hookshot to get behind the barrier then use it. It's a million times better than nothing.

By the way I noticed yesterday that under the bridge outside HC, there is an object you can target with your Boomerang, which you can't hit because the bridge is in the way. I don't know what's down there that the Boomerang is targetting. It's probably nothing interesting, but I'm kinda curious.

No, there's only 2. Wall and damage.

Okay Guys I think I can get barrier skip. It's a TAS only and it'll be really hard to pull off if I ever do. I need a savestate on dolphin to test. I need one at hyrule just after you have the triforce of courage (so It has hookshot).

What's the plan?

I'd like to see what you plan to do because it sounds interesting. Excuse my statements, but even if you do get it to work--which would be great--it would be useful only as a guiding idea. First of all, if it's after we get the ToC then it's next to useless for skipping only the darknut battle. Also, if it's TAS only then we get to wastefully sped more time seeing if it is console-possible. Never the less, I'd like to see what you're planning to do so that I can work with it. Good work, though! :)

Okay, so. After getting on the side wall and past the damage barrier (with wind waker), I wind waker dived off the edge and then after falling for a while I canceled it and took out my leaf and I got past the barrier.

so, I got past the barrier...
the problem was that I was miles down under the ground...

but I recently found out that you can use the wind waker with 0 hearts if you mash it after knockback. So if I can lose my last heart with knockback and fly back into an un-exploded bomb, and ge out the wind waker, I could possibly pull out the wind waker and dive off the edge with 0 hearts. After I have fell for a while I can cancel the wind waker and start hovering up to ganon's castle entrance.

so if you want to try then please, do.

Sounds interesting, however, it also sounds incredibly difficult. We'd have to hope that when link dies upon entering GT that he is not warped back out to before the barrier. I would still love to see a video of this, and hope that with some work, we can optimize it even more.

Hmm you can use a bomb to push you off ledges to make WW dive easier. Don't you take damage while doing that? If so just let the bomb push you off while having WW out, fall far enough to be outside the damage barriere (shouldn't be that low the invisible wall is the one thats high) and then start zombie hover...

On the other hand. If we can start WW dive while being dead we could die at korl, zombie hover to the bridge, ww dive down and continue zombie hovering. That would skip the hookshot and would make H1 -> GT possible... but it would be insanely hard. :D

If you get into GTs loading zone you are golden.

Hope it works, I'd love to test it but I only have a file at hyrule 1. If it works then all we need to do is get on the side during hyrule 1/2. Maybe I'll try to find a way of doing that without hookshot and double magic.

Either way it would be insanely difficult. But if it works it's worth it.

okay guys, I've got a problem; The damage barrier goes down forever, however the solid 2nd barrier doesn't go very low.

I got past the barrier with the leaf by wind waker diving off the edge while inside the damage barrier and leafing towards the other side of the barrier. (although being really far down with leaf won't help)

I've also got a wind waker dive off the edge with 0 hearts (so I can start hover streight after)

but when I do it with 0 hearts, I can't get past because of the damage barrier. now, I'm sure it's possible to do the 0 hearts dive while inside the damage barrier but it's going to be incredibly hard. I'll try some more tomorrow. So we probably now have a barrier skip that's very hard to pull off and requires hookshot.

however, it's a barrier skip so that's good

That's actually exactly the idea Parax had. You can't stay inside the damage barrier and Wind Waker dive at the same time, let alone while dead. If you find a way to do it, kudos to you. I can't test anything, computer is burning up again.

Edit:

I need to read better.

I hope we can find a way to simplify and fully optimize barrier skip. I haven't got much of anywhere with my testing.

Wow guys, you're on to something here

After seeing all the WW tricks found lately, I decided to try my hand at getting past that barrier. I used the Wind Waker to get inside the barrier, then used a bomb to dive down and used the leaf to get behind the wall, like GlitchesAndStuff was talking about (I can post a video of this if anyone wants to see it). I'm not sure how to do a WW dive with 0 hearts, though. I don't think you can actually move before the death cutscene starts, so you would need to be knocked by a bomb right on the edge next to another bomb, pull out the WW, and get pushed back by the second (unexploded) bomb, right? I've tried pulling out the WW while between a bomb and an edge, but Link just pulled it out and fell off the edge instead of conducting. Even if you can do a WW dive like that, though (and GlitchesAndStuff's posts seem to indicate that you can), there's still another problem. In order to avoid the death cutscene, you need to pull out the WW while Link is still flashing red. If you stop conducting and start hovering while inside the damage barrier, I think you'll be hit. Is there some way around this?

I would like to see a video of it, but anyway. The whole 0 hearts WW dive I'm not sure how you do. I haven't had any luck with it at all. I like to see that you're helping in the effort too, though. We really need GlitchesandStuff to make a vid of it.

I managed to do a Wind Waker dive from a standstill (i.e. putting Link between the bomb and the edge and pushing him off; the thing I was talking about in my last post). I'll upload that and the video I mentioned earlier.

Sounds good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs4-dbGWhwc

EDIT: Something I should mention is that the final trick would require you to already have the Wind Waker out when the first bomb brings you to 0 health. I tried it without the Wind Waker out and I couldn't pull it out fast enough, even with AR turbo.

Just need GlitchesandStuff to make a vid of 0 heart WW dive and we should be about set.
EDIT:
My only worry is that since we'd be hovering through solid ground, Link would get pushed onto it and die.

Well, there's still the question of whether you can stay inside the barrier without getting hit; you won't be able to pull out the Wind Waker after Link stops flashing.

Besides that, there's the fact that we can't currently get onto the side ledge of the bridge without the Hookshot. In order to make the barrier skip useful, we would need either that or a way to get the Hookshot before Hyrule 2.

EDIT: In KlydeStorm's Wind Temple video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzUY5ztTZxY), he doesn't use Iron Boots at all until after he gets the Hookshot. Since we can get inside Gale Isle without Iron Boots or Skull Hammer, am I correct in saying that all we would need to get Hookshot before Hyrule 2 (or Hyrule 1, for that matter) is a way past the first Wind God's Aria tablet? I assume Makar automatically joins you when you enter the actual temple (although it should be tested).

Not sure. I'm not even thinking about the WT since barrier skip will skip it.

I believe it was tested, and he doesn't. It's a kick in the nads.

That's too bad. I tried getting the Wind God's Aria after Hyrule 1, but the game freezes during the cutscene with the sage. I guess the areas in the temple where you need Makar will also have to be bypassed (unless a way is found to get to the ledge on the side of the bridge without Hookshot) if a barrier skip is found.

EDIT: I looked into getting onto the ledge near the golden circle that GlitchesAndStuff used Hookshot to get to. Although the ledge appears to be within range of a bomb boost, there's a sizable invisible wall preventing you from getting on top of it. GlitchesAndStuff was able to get on top because he clipped inside and came up from beneath.

I already tested bomb boosting to that ledge, and yeah it doesn't work. The way I was thinking of doing it w/o hooksot was hovering over the castle and dropping a bomb mid-hover. Then--here's the part I doubt--pull out the WW upon falling on/beside the bomb to WW dive then just continue to hover.

That will not work when we land we have no time to do anything, so we can't say pull out the WW or do anything else before we die.

That's what I thought. Oh well.

I've done some more testing and I'm almost certain that the damage barrier will hit you if you do a zero-heart WW dive from inside it without canceling the knockback using the WW. I haven't quite done that, but I did do a nonzero-heart dive from inside the barrier without canceling the knockback, and Link was hit soon after I stopped conducting. I think we should try to find a way to make the time when you need to pull out the WW to cancel the knockback and the time when you need to pull it out to stop the death cutscene coincide. It seems to me that the most likely way to do this would be to prevent Link from standing up until he is about to lose his invincibility. I think that this can happen if a bomb knocks you onto an edge, then you fall off the edge onto a lower floor. The problem is that we don't have anything higher than the ledge we need to fall off. We could also look for a way to start conducting in midair.

Another possibility is that there is some stray floor that we could leaf to after canceling the knockback. This doesn't seem likely, but I'll look anyway.

It does seem quite unlikely. I asked GlitchesandStuff to make a vid of 0 heart WW dive and he said he would. I'm pretty sure that conducting mid-air is impossible.

I have an idea about getting up to the ledge on the side of the bridge without Hookshot. In the entrance area of Hyrule 2, get yourself to a quarter heart. Destroy some grass and get yourself to zero hearts, probably with the same bomb. Zombie hover over one of the invisible walls. Z target Tetra and use the boomerang to grab a heart that was (hopefully) in the grass you just destroyed. This would require quite a bit of luck, but it would be at the beginning of a segment. I'll work on it (so far, it's just a theory). Even if this works, though, there's still the barrier skip itself to find...

EDIT: I forgot to mention this, but once you got on top of one of the walls in the KORL area, you would just continue the trick as in GlitchesAndStuff's video.

Sounds almost impossible, but you never know. I think the window of opportunity is smaller than TAS only to target the heart in mid-hover. Also, targeting Tetra wouldn't matter, cause it does change direction or anything like that.

You would target Tetra, not the heart. The idea is that Tetra will be next to the heart, so you can pick up the heart by aiming the boomerang at her.

Well that makes a bit more sense. But since Tetra follows you she'd quickly move away from the heart, but keep testing it. It just might work.

I've also noticed that problem, but it's possible to get Tetra stuck behind trees and bombs, so I think I can work around it.

0 heart dive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH7Or8zlHV0

sorry for slow emu

I've discovered loads of stuff from spending 8 days non-stop on barrier skip (and I'm still at it) and I've discovered way too much to post here but just to stop you guys wasting any time, I've read through all the theories here and I can tell you that none of them will work. because I've tried them all already :3

although with the boomerang thing, as soon as you press B or any other button, the boomerang flies streight back to link so you'd need to start the hover after the boomerang has picked up the heart. this doesn't give much time to hover up there but IDK, maybe it's just about possible.

if you have any questions on any specifics with the barrier, I can probably tell you lots if you ask...

Can you share some of what you've found? It may help the rest of us.

Post them anyway.

okay here goes:

The barrier has a solid wall all around it but not on top or below. however, a damage wall does go all around the castle including the top & bottom. so the only way to do this would be a way to do infinite red flashing then hovering over the top of the solid barrier or somehow getting below the damage barrier and hovering up. We already have barrier skip but requires a heart so we cannot get back up to the top with hover. this is diving while inside the barrier and was posted here not long ago. the trouble with the 0 heart wind waker dive is that if this is to work, you need to be inside the barrier when you dive or pull out the wind waker to dive on the frame you stop flashing red (untested). none of these are possible yet although finding a way to make items usable when landing a hover would probably make this possible.

I've also tried tingle tuner diving and at first there were two problems. one, you cannot use it after knockback or get it out with 0 hearts. and two, as soon as you exit the tuner, it warps you back to the start due to link falling down a pit (wind waker doesn't do this). I managed to avoid the first by tingle tuner diving off the top of the castle. I got up there with cheats but if we find a way to get onto the ledge in the KoRL area that you get onto without hookshot clipping, the roof next to it has the same height invisible wall so it should be just as easy to get onto the roof. from the roof you can make your way to the front. at the front I tingle tuner dived off and got fall damage with it still out (tuner dive does this). I used a bomb to push me off the second ledge that I fell onto to take damage and there I had a 0 heart dive. however, it still warped link to the start of the map.

I've tried forest water things to try to keep link flashing red although  none of the stuff I've tried works so far (and I've tried a lot). and nor have I found anything else you can dive with. Although, there could still be hope. if you can talk to tetra in hyrule 2 after getting knockback and 0 hearts, a dive might get link past. you must go to the bridge the normal way (through the castle) so that tetra can follow you, and also because you won't have hookshot. Then, get 0 hearts and hover up above the wall of the bridge into the barrier so that link gets knocked back again onto the wall of the bridge. once this is done, mash A to try to speak to tetra and dive or atleast stay in the barrier with 1 heart. I've not tested this yet because dolphin crashes at the hyrule 2 cutscene. but if Klyde could give me a state of hyrule 2 with tetra, I would be very grateful.

I've probably forgot a load of stuff that I've not mentioned so I'll tell you more if I remember any.

I think so too; I imagine you would do this:

1. Lay a bomb and stand so that when it knocks you down and kills you, you are facing the barrier.
2. Hover toward the barrier, pull out a bomb, and drop it with the Deku Leaf.
3. Land inside the barrier and use the hypothetical trick to pull out the WW on the same frame that your invincibility stops. The bomb will give you a WW dive and you can go under the invisible wall.

I don't know how we would go about using an item after landing, though. Even if you have the WW out and use turbo while landing, you can't start conducting before the death cutscene starts.


I've also tried some stuff with Forest Water. I thought that the cutscene that plays when you put something in a bottle might work the same way as the cutscene that plays when you open a chest, so I released a Forest Firefly, did the storage glitch, and caught the firefly. The cutscene was skipped and the firefly was immediately put into my bottle, but I couldn't clip into anything. I did the same thing with regular water in the KORL area and it didn't work either. I'll test drinking potions and soup. Is there a cutscene that plays the first time you pick something like bombs up on the ground? If so, that should be tested as well.


I'm not sure how this would work. I tried knocking myself into the damage barrier with a bomb and talking to Tetra as soon as I got up. Your invincibility runs out while she's talking, so you get hit as soon as you cancel the text (if you have 0 hearts, you die before the damage barrier hits you). This makes me almost certain that if you managed to dive by talking to Tetra, you would get hit as soon as you canceled the text. You would probably be set if you could take out the WW after canceling the text (thereby getting a dive and canceling the damage from the barrier), but I don't think you have time.

I tried the forest firefly thing a long time ago and didn't get anywhere. However, while testing with it I did find a new forest water glitch. If forest water expires at the beginning of the dumping animation Link will freeze after the animation ends. This, however, can easily be countered with a bomb. The only thing I found it to do is lock the camera in a different way than with storage. I'll upload the vid soon.

EDIT:
From GlitchesandStuff's video, it looks like if we could use a potion during hover it would make it a lot quicker. Not sure when I'll get around to testing with this.

A useless trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Sq6lUTLRU

Upon viewing GlitchesandStuff's video I realized something. We don't need to be inside the repulsive barrier because, as he shows--and as I realized--, there is no repulsive barrier/invisible wall in the bridge. The vid clearly shows that clipping into the bridge is possible with 0 heart dive. So that's one less thing to worry about.

What are you talking about? The damage barrier exists inside the bridge. This can be tested easily with AR: Just float up into the bridge from underneath and run into the barrier. The invisible wall is there too.

yeah, this is what I was thinking...


Also, I found a new small glitch with forest water... since the forest water glitch un-freezes everything around link after the message comes up, you can get hit by an exploding bomb with the wind waker out. if you drop a bomb before, do forest water and conduct the balad of the gales, the bomb will knock you back and next time you pull out the wind waker your playing will be all fucked up. try it for yourself.. and then try conducting another song like that.. it's kinda odd...

I seem to remember something like that.

Basically the whole map is a damage-area. Only Hyrule castle is in a non-damage bubble.
But taking damage from the "barriere" can be canceled with wind waker, which is why you can dive into it. The problem with this is that after the dive you are too low to hit Ganons loading zone. So you would need to zombie hover. But to zombie hover you nee to be dead. For that you have to kill yourself right before the dive. But that will let you flash red and once you stop flashing the damage barriere knocks you back which cancels zombie hovering.

Best thing would be if we could zombie hover, land and then imidietly WW dive, but there don't seem to be enough frames after landing before dieing to do this.
Hmm... Does forest water expire when you are dead? And what happens if it expires during a hover? Wouldn't the textbox cause a dive or give us enough time to pull out WW? Has anybody tested that yet?

And what about releasing a firefly, dieing then recatching the firefly and diving of that catch-text?

Nothing really happens when forest water expires while hovering. It simply pauses the hover until you close the text. So yeah, I have tested it. Same with forest firefly. I suppose a dive with might be possible but very unlikely, as you'd have to slightly nudge foreward before recapturing it. I've done a similar thing over the 'holes in the ground' and it simply pauses before letting the animation begin. The window for a firefly dive is tiny, and it would just be one more item to worry about. Also, I've noticed that you have a habit of saying barriere instead of barrier.

Same situation. We can be dead, or be inside the damage barrier, not both. There's not enough time for Link to stop flashing after a fatal blow, so we can't cancel the damage barrier.


Edit:
Weird shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxA9pRUmLUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqHNJD4tYHM

Looks like you found gainers in WW. Could it be the solution to barrier skip?

You're joking, right?

I want you to come up with a logical reason why you think that, after all we've tried, a simple Gainer would be the key trick needed to get past the barrier, of all things.

Also, it's not really a Gainer at all, it can't grab ledges that are above you. It's just a forward backflip.

Edit: What Razor was referring to is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai8PyluIsjY#t=0m49s

The 'gainer', for say, seems to move link back toward the nearest ledge once backflipping off of it. I was overexaggerating a bit, but I was just thinking using it at an angle may bypass the invisible wall. Just a theory. Either way it's something I'll have to test with.

Then wouldn't a regular old backflip bypass it, for whatever reason?

No, because the gainer moves you forward.

It's the same animation, the same hitboxes, the same everything, but it goes forward. If a gainer would work, a regular backflip would work.

Plus, before the "gainer" moves you forward, you have to move backwards for 2 frames. You would be smacked by the barrier because you went too far out of it, I figure.

Edit: I just tested it for you anyways, and it does nothing.

Too bad. I guess I'll just have to do more testing.
EDIT:
Forest water is awesome.

Hrm, I'm really interested in this part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai8PyluIsjY#t=0m10s) of the forest water video. I didn't realize you could buffer chest collection into the title screen like that.. I think it might be the key to breaking BiT. My line of thinking is that if we obtain an item just as BiT starts, we'll go into normal mode.

Sounds like a plan. If BiT in WW is anything like in TP then it could be greatly useful.

yeah, with the chest thing, where you collect the rupees at the title screen... what happens if you delay the mirror shield chest... does link have it on his back at the title screen? I would test but all my files are after that or on outset right back at the start


Edit: In fact, since you can press start right at the start of BiT, you could try delaying any chest that gives a special item, such as the boomerang chest and then doing the death BiT method. just to test if link has it...

I know you can get the BiT "Link" file  by saving when doing the BiT glitch ( I just found this but it's kind obvious so I geuss it's already found)

but I used forest water with the heart piece chest on Needle Rock Isle. I then died and did the BiT glitch. BiT link then appeared at needle rock isle with the title screen and I ran over to the blue chu, got hit and died. it asked me to save so I did and then when I pressed continue it started the scene at the start where it tells the story of OoT. but I went onto my files and there was the BiT file called "Link"

when you open it you have the heart piece that you collected with the delay and the starting music comes up where aryll is looking for you but you can freely move around...

I'm testing it right now so I'll post some more stuff as I come across it..

Edits:

the starting cutscene music begins whenever you exit a house.
it's just like a normal file but it skips the first cutscene and you keep the item you did the chest thing with... But depending on the item, this could prove to be atleast interesting.

some items found in chests after forest water is available: Hammer, Boomerang, bombs, mirror shield, bracelet, bow, iron boots, hookshot, bottle.


Skull hammer would enable hover before hero sword.. hovering into the forest on outset could be a hero sword skip/telescope skip/tunic skip if we can do anything after that cutscene that you can't normally do before it.



also, I'm not 100% sure but you might even be able to do it with delaying other items such as the first time you get red chu jelly from a red chu.

Sounds like BiT is changing the any% route for WW. I hope to see a video of some of this soon. Just remember, BiT can't cost more time then it saves or it's a waste of time.

There is a similar glitch in Donkey Kong 64 where you can start a file over, but keep all your keys/crowns/etc. It isn't allowed. This glitch is interesting and might be useful for low% depending on how it is ruled, but it won't find use in any% runs.

If it is allowed, for low% the best thing to get would be the Ghost Ship Triforce Chart. This means we could skip the Ghost Ship Chart without needing any extra glitching.

For any%, I think the GSTC might be a great option on what to keep. The Savage Labyrinth Triforce Chart and the Cabana Triforce Chart also have a lot of potential. We would need some timing. Light Arrows are another strong candidate, because they also give us Fire/Ice Arrows automatically, and we could skip having to use forest water to skip them. Finally, if we could get a working Ballad of Gales early, bow would be a nice item to have.

I'm pretty sure that it's allowed. BiT was allowed in a TP any%, so I don't see why it wouldn't be in WW. I'm hoping that it will have some great time-saving uses in an any% and not just in a low%.

The thing about BiT WW is that it is the same file, only with your progress gone. This is totally legal, like in TP. What is illegal, is calling this a new file, i.e. starting timing after BiT. Timing starts when you first begin the pre-BiT file. Given that, BiT is completely useless.

For low% purposes, there  is a rule in OoT that states "any items deleted will still be counted". Thus, if you wanted to skip item A using item B with BiT, you'ld have to be able to  get to item B without getting item A. The chance of a useful pair of items like that is extremely low.

However, ZSR might accept BiT runs as a seperate category, timed from when you go back in time. But don't expect an SDA run to use BiT.

I know about the illegal thing, but I still believe that BiT could have some use in an any%. Similar to how BiT in TP alows you to skip some tasks as well as getting the iron boots early. I doubt that ZSR will make a separate catagory for BiT since there are only two games in which it can be done.

There's a difference. TP's title screen actually has Link on it riding Epona around, that's why BiT in TP gives you stuff - it gives you the stuff Link is supposed to have for the title screen to look/work properly. Link does not have any special items or equipment in TWW's title screen. The game does not start you with anything different at all from a normal file. Skipping the intro cutscene doesn't help because you need to watch it anyway to get to the point where you'd actually be able to perform the glitch. Also, I can't really see starting the game over from the beginning but with an item being helpful at all.

Yeah. I really haven't done any testing with BiT in WW. It might be of some use though.

pooped on

okay guys. I tried forest water with leaf and you could BiT it if the forest haven cutscene didn't start... but now we know this, can somone try it with the master sword or upgrading the master sword at the end of wind/earth temple? if it does give us the sword for BiT this means that we won't just warp to outset when we savequit.

Edit: the master sword chamber starts a big cutscene that you have to press A more than once, but the boss rooms at the end of earth/wind temples will just start the boss cutscene with no need to press A so could somone test it there please? thanks!

I had a similar idea. A video of the new BiT finds would help me in testing this.

Question about 0 heart WW dive: At what point will the barrier hit you back?  As soon as you reach the height of the very bottom of the barrier or higher?  I was thinking it might be possible to hover low until you pass Ganon's Castle loading zone then start gaining height and have the barrier knock you into the loading zone, but I'm guessing the barrier will hit you before you can reach that height/distance from the loading zone.  just an idea.

So guys, I just realised, I don't need to go all the way to the earth temple/wind temple to get sword with BiT.

I can just do the FF1 hero's sword skip with GS text skip. before the 2nd pirate ship, I'll get some forest water and make my way up to the hero's sword that I didn't pick up on my first trip to FF1.

Right.... this is going to take some thinking...

I'll need to BiT the bow and then go complete FF1 using GS text skip AND without picking up the sword (by defeating the last enemy with the bow) then I'll need to go complete DRC without a sword and then go to the deku tree and kill all the chus on his face with the bow. then I'll have to go to forbidden woods and kill the enemies there with the bow then beat the temple. then I'll have to bottle some forest water and sail to GFI. then I'll sail to windfall and enter the pirate ship. this should give me atleast 5-10 mins left on my forest water. the pirate ship will turn into the FF1 pirate ship and I'll go back to FF1 with the sword still there. I'll make my way up to the sword again and wait for the forest water to run out so I can do BiT with hero's sword..
 
And then finally I'll have a sword right at the start of the game and it would skip the telescope and the tunic providing I can actually save tetra before the cutscene where she falls into the forest. and I geuss it would be fun to play around with. it might also mean you can do BiT with tunic after that or BiT with telescope.

Edit: I've also been thinking of places where BiT arrows might have some odd effects. for example, getting the ballad of gales way before ToG might be strange. or light arrows (because this will hopefully give you ice/fire too) because you can get the iron boots or power bracelet early.

Edit 2: okay, I've just tried BiT with the bow and It doesn't work. Theres no bow when I press start. I'm not sure why it doesn't work and a heart piece does but that's the fact. I'll try again later but if bow doesn't work then i'm sure theres another item we can use in the place of bow, or we could do the FF1 hover to skip hero sword and find ways arround the places you need to kill enemies in forbidden woods . OR, and I'm not too sure about this one, we can go get bombs with superswim and complete forbiden woods with bombs. although after you get the bombs, i'm not too sure if the pirate ship we need dissapears from windfall or if it dissapears after you get jabun's pearl.

from where? from fairys? because they cost 1000 rupees at the start I think...

Looks like you've put some thought into all this.

okay, I've tried to BiT the hammer and it doesn't work. and nor does bow. so I'm geussing main items in chests don't work. However the leaf does work (although it's impossible to then save that BiT file with the leaf on it). and because you have to pick up the leaf, I'm hoping FF1 hero's sword will work too.

so I'm afraid we've got a dead end here until somone can do this FF1 hover trick. since BiT doesn't work on emu, we can only do it on console. I need to work on my hovering skills and I will get this on console one day XD but I'm sure one of you pros like ani or cosmo will get it sooner.

you need to do GS text skip at the start then you need to hover into the loading zone of what would be the helmaroc fight in FF2. alternatively, you could hover into one of the hearts right outside the door and beat the enemy with the stick you have.

Edit: some people have been saying that by SDA's standards BiT won't be useful because timing starts from the pre-BiT file. I agree with this however I just thought of something that may make it useful. if we could do BiT at FF1 and then make it past the GS text and save, I think it would mean that when you savewarp to outset and get on the pirate ship again, it would have bombs in it and be on windfall. correct me if I'm wrong but it's what I thought.

Not sure about the pirate ship cause we probably won't be that lucky. But, it's worth a try. Even if BiT turns out not to be very useful it would still be fun to mess around with.

The barrier has no bottom. It extends infinitely up and down. Think of an infinitely tall cylinder around the castle. Once you leave that cylinder, you can be hit by the barrier.

Finally got the forest water glitch I found uploaded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzmw3guaedQ. I have solved the problems with my camera!

no, you're wrong. the soldid cylinder around hyrule does stop. that's why you can get past it with leaf. and the damage barrier has a floor (but it still knocks you back when you get below that floor)

Seems like an interesting thing to note. It would really be nice if we could find a way to get on the ledge without the hookshot.

I'm talking about the damage barrier that knocks Link down, not the invisible wall. That should have been obvious from my post and ZFG's. What you're talking about is a ceiling, not a floor.

well whatever, it's just what you said is incorrect: "The barrier has no bottom. It extends infinitely up and down."

The damage barrier is EVERYWHERE not in the cylinder around Hyrule Castle, and it extends out, up, and down infinitely. The WALL barrier does not have a floor or ceiling, which is why if we cancel the damage barrier and Wind Waker dive down enough, we can go past the wall barrier.

I want no more confusion.

Red is the damage barrier, not-red cylinder is not damage barrier. Around the cylinder is a wall.

(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/33/hyrule.png)

Clear enough? Can we move on now?

nice picture Klyde.

so anyway, you can get fall damage while already flashing red. if it doesn't start a new red flashing, we might be able to pull out the wind waker just as it stops flashing at 0 health. we also need a way to get onto the roof I was talking about earlier.

but how you can actually recover life without tingle? The only solution I think is to enter to ganon tower with 0 hearts, but this sounds imposible(?) when I saw this big cilinder protecting the castle.

we'd hover into ganon's castle or kill the keese with a bomb so they drop a heart

Link dies far too soon before the red flashing ends.

Might have a solution to the health problem if I can find a way to get on the ledge without the hookshot.

Why not just share your idea so people are more motivated, or people with cheating devices can test it and see if it's truly worth all the effort?

By the way, are the previous Razor we knew and just happened to forget your password? Or by some slim chance are you another Razor?

(I missed the signature before, whoops)

Yeah. Forgot my password. But, anyway, my idea is to get inside the barrier and try to use a 'gainer' to grab onto the ledge and clip through the invisible wall with a bomb. I know the ledge close to that is grabbable, so from your vid I thought grabbing it was an idea. I'm messing around with other glitch theories that may or may not help with barrier skip.

A problem there, you can't grab onto the ledge, on either side. If you could, what's stopping someone from leafing off the steps before over to it and grabbing the edge? There's also a giant invisible wall preventing you from grabbing it, even if you could grab onto the ledge.

Yes that was my fear. I thought there might be an exception since most invisible walls are one-way. Oh well. Perhaps there's a way to clip into the wall to grab the ledge.
Quick question: For the trials skip with bomb ledge clip, can you get behind the door without double magic meter?

No, there's no way we can ever grab that particular edge. The edge closest to the pit, maybe, but that's still really pushing it.


I do not know.

Not that ledge. I'm talking about the original ledge the GlitchesandStuff hookshot clipped on top of.

EDIT:
Tested a new theory today. Using Manocheese's clip in hyrule, I thought it would be an idea to see if we could clip into the 'railing' with a backflip & the deku leaf. Haven't had any luck, but I thought maybe someone would have a suggestion.

EDIT:
Don't believe that the railing and wall are on the same plane, but I've almost gotten up there. Might try zombie hover, but for the practical use deku leaf and/or bombs required.

Going to start route testing soon. I know barrier skip isn't done yet, but I have a pretty good idea of what it will require.

After beginning route testing today this is what I have so far:
1. Opening Cutscene (may or may not save after)
2. Sidehop, swim, roll to grandma's house
3. Climb latter, get clothes
4. Roll, swim to aryll
5. Equip telescope, postman
- Cutscene
6. Sidehop, swim, roll to orca's
7. Do quick sword method
8. Roll to Tetra
9. Quick bokoblin battle
-Cutscene
10. Roll to grandma's
11. Climb latter, backflip down for shield
EDIT: Collect Orange rupee under grandma's house
12. Roll to Tetra
-Cutscene
13. Quick rope game
14. Climb latter
-Cutscene
15. Roll & do quick 2nd search light trick (not sure if GS text skip causes problems, so didn't include it)
16. Lure bokoblin & quick spin kill
17. Jump to first search light, quick kill
18. Rolling, Rolling, Rolling
19. Hug the wall to roll past moblin
20. Sidles
21. Sword, quick kill bokoblin
-Cutscene
22. Get Tingle Tuner & Sail
23. Quick sail to DR, collect red rupee along way
24. WW & wind's requiem, make wind blow south
25. Skip the rocks
-Long shitty cutscene/Delivery Bag
26. Roll to Medli, get letter
27. Roll to Komali
28. To Medli
(Not sure if bottle skip would save time or waste it. Needs confirmation)
29. Bottle, Blow up rock, Swim
30. Bomb boost over lava Jumpslash is quicker by a few seconds
31. Enter DRC & Save
Note: Sometime before DRC we should collect 20 more rupees for hover costs. Possibly sail rupees. Fixed step 23^

This is a very vague outline of the route as of now. I did not include save spots, as they are to be discussed. I will improve as I continue testing and get suggestions. (Need to buy GBA-GCN connector cable)
 

There's a better route for Sail rupees than the orange under Grandma's house, but we might need it anyway because of Tingle Tuner costs.

Tbh I don't know where Wind Waker is right now. Is it even necessary to go to DRC?

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about the orange rupee. I'd say it's necessary to go to DRC as KoRL won't let you sail anywhere else and zombie hover takes too long. Perhaps superswim to FF2 early for EMS would be an option, but we'd still need to go to FH. I'm still testing with it and will tell about what I find. School started today, so I may not be too quick about it.

EMS is not an option, at all. It ends in a dead-end with not being able to break the barrier, ever.

Before you say "barrier skip", we don't have it yet.

I know we don't have barrier skip yet. I'm working on it, and I don't want to argue about it right now. However, I'm not completely taking EMS off yet, though I do highly doubt its use.

I was looking for the earth temple tricks and I saw a poor "trick compilation", I did a playlist so someone should add them into the site

32. Call Tingle & Put RT on B
33. Move Statues (2nd one half way)
34. Quick spin bokoblins & pickup stick
35. Light 1st torch, throw to light second
36. Open chest, open door
37. Break boards
-Cutscene
38. Roll pull out block 1/2 way
39. Roll to bomb flowers & deminish life to 1/4 Heart (alternate BF for speed--L then R--)

This is a very vague outline of the route as of now. I did not include save spots, as they are to be discussed. I will improve as I continue testing and get suggestions. Got cable today, but to lazy to do more on route. I'll do more this weekend.

Then tell us.

Recently I managed to do BiT with the leaf by hovering out the top of forest haven OoB then falling to my death and pressing reset at the right moment. it took me to outset with magic and leaf BiT. However, I cannot press start to save so the only option is fall damage. I've only found one place that might be possible for link to take damage and it requires getting onto this roof:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z54/adam_chesie/BiT.png)
from the roof you can jump off the highest part onto the sand and take fall damage. with the angle in that image, jumping off will send link too far to grab the edge and a tiny bit too low even if he could grab the edge. if you angle link more to the right and jump, the side of the roof pushes him away as he gets that high. this means that if link was facing towards the roof then he would be able to grab however he is facing quite far away from the roof.

There are two reasons I want to try saving with BiT leaf. the first is so that in a DRC IL the player will have the deku leaf so the dungeon could have some extra shortcuts. The second is that with BiT leaf, after you use the telescope to see tetra fall into the forest, you can leaf to the pirate ship that comes up outside Outset. not only would this skip shield but it would skip getting the sword from orca. and if you skiped getting the sword from orca and got the one from FF1 it might have some strange effects when going to see orca at different points of the game. for instance, it may be possible to replace the master sword with the hero's sword.

so if any of you know if it's possible to not make jumps not go too far or if you had any other ideas about places to get damage, please let me know because I really want this to work.

But remember, things relevent to any% come first. this is just a fun thing I wanted to test.

@GlitchesandStuff^
Quick question: Won't the game automatically activate the opening cutscene after a certain period of time?
Anyway, I'd also like to see what you come up with if you get this to work. I think that you can jump from the porch to the sand and take damage, but I'm not sure. I'm thinking of doing a DRC any% IL sometime soon, so this would be helpful. I hope to see a vid of what you find soon!
Bombs, deku leaf, WW, and possible FW. I was mostly talking about the ledge w/o hookshot, but for the actual skip, bombs and WW. I'll test more with it in time.

Glitches, if you die, it'll go into the opening story.

I tested dying with cheats and it gave you a chance to save before it takes you to the opening story. I assume dying in drowning type BiT still lets you create a file like dying in death type BiT does?


The only place you can get fall damage is jumping off the top of the very top of the roof onto the sand. Because you can hang onto the lower part of the roof, the jump needed isn't really that huge. You can try places with rolling jumps but I won't be able to press A when in BiT "mode" because pressing A takes me to the file select screen.

Well that sucks. Maybe it's just a bit of luck. I don't know if I'll get around to messing with it. DRC BK skip is giving me hell.

Okay, I think I'm getting closer..

I searched youtube for any outset island glitch that might help me with getting onto this roof. finally, I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqUctKDkV38
This video shows how to get up onto the well thing with a jumpslash but you can easily get up there with a jump w/o pressing any buttons. from the top of the well, you can do a rolling jump to grab the roof. this is now a way to get onto that roof without any items. however, the jump from the top of here DOES require a roll so it's no good for BiT yet. I'll be testing some different angles because link's grabbing physics and style are really odd in this game. It would be helpful if any of you also tested for places to grab as I would really like to make this work.

Edit: I just got on with a normal jump! I did it once and I'm trying to do it again but it's really hard... but basicly it means that we can take fall damage with drowning type BiT :D

Edit: I got it two more times in the space of about two hours.. this is hard and I've yet to find a setup... if you guys could also help to work one out, I would be grateful

Yeah, could you make a vid of the whole thing, starting with showing the storage of collecting the deku leaf all the way to dying from the roof for BiT? I'm a little confused with parts of it and a vid would be clarify. This sounds perfect for my DRC any% IL. Great job Glitches!

This is an extremely hard trick to do and it is not doable on console. it requires first that you get the forest water glitch, then that you can hover out the top of forest haven then fall OoB and press reset at the right time. There are only like 3 frames you can press reset in so you can see how hard it would be. I have been told that if it was drowning type BiT it would be much easier because you can time the reset press.

Razor, if you want deku leaf for a DRC IL, you should probably hover to forest haven from the nearest island you can get to before DRC. Also, you should get bombs early too. they will help with all the giant rocks that you normally need bombflowers for.

Route testing comes first for me, but hovering to FH early for the deku leaf is insane. I wouldn't normally say that, but even some good at hovering as Ani got a time of 1 hour to hover there from Outset, from DR would be about half that, and I don't even know if Tingle heal with still work, plus it must be timed before the intro cutscene. Skipping the rocks is faster than even using bombs to destroy them, so don't think I'd bother with that, maybe. I ink we might be able to BK skip in DRC w/ DL instead of hovering to save a few seconds so, yeah. Also, it's probably possible on a console. :)

No, hovering to FH early is so much easier. hovering out the top of FH and pressing reset at the right time would be really hard. The timing is almost impossible.

Also, I did the death in BiT thing on console not that long ago.. I found a setup and it's semi-consistant. Video will be recorded and uploaded tomorrow probably. :)

Here´s the playlist (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6B39D4933BA264B3&playnext=1&v=PjlEBiledXE);D, also some stuff in Diamond Steppe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1ox9zl87Kk)

Nice work! I like the Diamond Steppe boosts :D can you open chests after knockback with 0 hearts? if so, you can probably drop a bomb in hover and get knocked next to the chest so you can open it rather then die.

Also:
Die in drowning-style BiT. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF323-5wjM) It's strange, you can't normally jump off the well there onto the roof. BiT strangely seems to make some ledges act differently as well as the roof not making link slide down so that you can easily walk up it. it only works in drowning type BiT, in the death BiT that parax has a video of, all ledges seem to behave normally.

I like your newish type on bomb boosting, it's similar to what I was using to try to get to the H1 ledge w/o the hookshot.

40. Zombie hover to 2nd level off of bomb flower
41. Enter room and quick kill bokoblins
42. Grab water jug, jump to center platform, throw on lava jet
43. Pick up bomb flower & blow up rock
44. Roll up stairs
-Cutscene
45. Quick kill bokoblins (5 slashes, then quick spin) and moblin
46. Get grappling hook & grapple to post from ground to skip Medli text
47. Roll, grapple, break boards
48. Zombie hover for BK skip--preferably use variation 1--
49. Quick Gohma battle
-Cutscene
50. Enter warp
-Cutscene
51. Save
52. Quick sail to Forest Haven
53. WW dive to entrance

This is a very vague outline of the route as of now. I only included obvious save spots, as they are to be discussed. I will improve as I continue testing and get suggestions.

Completely skip Command Melody in Earth Temple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPQ7i_HYosE

Hey, I got a (useless for sure) idea. What would happen if you do BiT on the demo version of collector edition?

Yeah that sounds fun! I'll test now

Edit: doesn't work, pressing reset takes you to the collector's edition screen and not the wind waker title screen.

Sorry for being slow on the route. FH is where heavy testing really begins, so I'm not cuting any corners in it. I'll try to put more up soon.

The best route for FH would probably be to play it like before.

I think he means where to go from FH, not FH itself.

Yeah. I know forest haven isn't an option, but I'm working on trying to find a timely route around the forbidden woods.

bt has anybody ever tried ems or any of the other SBs that ended in dead ends / freezes or bariere on the japnese version? I know version specific glitches are not likely in this day and age, but unlikely doesn't mean impossible...

It shouldn't be that hard should it? Get rang and BK skip. Collect forest water as soon as you get to FH and it ought to expire at a good time.

I have the japanese version but I don't know what route to take or what to do to see if theres a dead end...

The only one I can think of is hovering to FF2 without placing pearls, EMS, go to H1, continue normally until H3 and try to destroy the barrier. I think that's how it goes.

By the time you would get to the boss door you would have to wait about 16 to 14 mins I tested this months ago.

The best route for FW would probably just be the one used in the SS run.


with a few changes of course, but should be mostly the same.

Yeah, I just timed it too and got pretty much the same result. So BK skip isn't viable.

I wonder where the water would run out though. Could it be used?

EDIT:

Superswim most likely.

That's great but I'm on the path to skipping the forbidden woods for the route, that's what is taking so long.
Superswim to skip FW.
I plan on testing EMS. As long as there aren't any unseen dead ends it will probably be in the route.