ZSR Forums

In an effort to keep the submission topic clean from random chatter so submissions don't go unnoticed, use this topic to discuss strategies and stories for the current segment. Talk about anything here, from sidehops vs backwalks, to small timesavers, to sharing that story of the odd mush segment attempt that got to the end, only to fail the house jump. You can also use this topic to let people know that you are actively working on a segment or if you have given up and the verifiers should look over the current best attempt.

Use this topic (http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=415.0) for discussion about significant changes to the larger route or issues regarding our processes for ensuring quality and consistancy.

Use this topic (http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=455.0) for segment submissions.

Talk about anything? I guess I'll get the ball rolling then.

Seeing as how we aren't collecting any rupees, what's the best strategy to start out here? I'm thinking sidehop left off the balcony and up the hill, then backwalk and backflip onto the hill, then sidehop towards the fences until you need to change angles and backflip over them. Then just get the sword as normal, minus the extra sidehop left to get that blue rupee.

Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

This is what I did for my segment 2 from the old but still fairly recent any%:

Backflip off like normal, backwalk until Link hits the dirt path, sidehop right twice, adjust angle slightly to only backflip over the middle fence and also backwalk right to the hole, the rest as normal minus blue rupee.

The route that Runnerguy described is the exact route that ZFG took in his 1:09 submission. It could probably be improved slightly by replacing some of the backwalking with optimized sidehopping, but it would be hard to do in real-time.

Also rolling through the right-side of the door to exit the house is fastest. I like ZFG's segment a lot though.

Its also probably faster to sidehop off the house then quickly switch to backwalking.

As a verifier, I reject my segment.

If you are sidehopping off the balcony, why not just continue sidehopping until the angle change? Surely we can do optimized sidehopping for a few seconds...?

i agree, dont bother sidehopping if you're gonna retarget to backwalk the rest of the way.

You can switch angles and only lose a few frames if you do it right.  The black bars wont even go away.

After trying seg 1 a bit, I have to say that ZFG's segment is pretty great. The only two "flaws" in the segment are the house exit (which is pretty hard to do optimized with the above camera angle) and like less than a second of delay in the maze. You can't go too fast in the maze or you'll ram into the boulder.

What he did REALLY well was the sidehop onto the garden-entrance slope (extremely well timed).

I wouldn't be disappointing at all if we stuck with ZFG's segment, although I will keep trying to beat it.


EDIT: I haven't been able to finish the segment once without a mistake while recording. The main issue is lining up with the crawl hole. I can't seem to do it often at all.

UPDATE TIME:

Yo bros, I got my adapter and it's pretty sweet, I should be able to ESS escape; only issue is the angle change which sucks but it's possible I just have to get used to the slightly different timing. So I'm gonna start doing some segment 2 practice. I'm pretty much assuming we are all happy with ZFG's segment 1 except for him and he hasn't improved it, and we can always improve it later.

Anyone who wants to do segment 2 also is welcome of course; I think mp16 is doing some attempts on it too. If you don't want to do segment 2 but are interested in perhaps the segment 3 (botw part 1) all you'd have to do is enter the well with sword equipped and the ocarina (not equipped), as well as 2 rupees; no other requirements would be needed. Alignment can be made at a later point since no time passes and we aren't loaded with bombs/chus/rupees/other item counts yet.

EDIT: Scrap the seg 3 start idea; it's possible I pick up a rupee or two in the grass on the ESS escape.

For segment 4 I say we do this instead:

GS near tree in Hyrule, there are 3 rocks next to it. One has a bug always. If we avoid pausing in Kakariko to get that bug, we save a pause. After getting egg pause and put all 3 (egg, bottle, and chus) on C and then catch the bug.

Thoughts on that?

EDIT: It's good also because time passes during that time and we need to wait for day anyway, so if you still get to Talon you didn't lose the time it took to pick the rock up and drop it.

Definitely - there is no reason not to.

So for segment 4 do we need to use RG's seg2 save and play through seg3, or did ZFG use RG's seg2 and the field time in his seg3 is correct? This kinda stuff needs to be posted in the submission thread.
 

I used my own save for seg 3, but I think rg said he made (or will make) a seg 4 save.

A segment 3 completed save is uploaded in ZSR:

http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/Team100/WiiSaves/ZFGSeg3complete.bin

Still says last updated Oct 17th RG....   http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/Team100/WiiSaves/

EDIT: Oh nvm, I guess that's when you uploaded your new one. I was under the impression you just uploaded it today (19th).

Revised route: http://www.mediafire.com/?tpdcxjdxkw8ufbb

It modifies Segment 4 in the way that RG described above, and it also finally fixes the Fire Temple segments so that they use Kazooie's block clip; the chus that were originally going to be used for maze hover are now used for Water Temple BK Skip. We also cut out one bomb drop and a pause as well. Furthermore, we end the route with two extra bombs, so individual runners can use those two extra bombs in whatever way they see fit; it's up to the verifiers to determine whether the extra bomb usage is justified in a segment.

If you're too lazy to download it, just wait for ZFG or RG to upload it to /Team100

A few small imprvements that can be made to ZFG's segment 5 submission:

1. Roll to LW entrance like I did in my segment 5 submission (it's faster than backwalking). Also, me and ZFG basically got the exact same time in GC, so my easier rolling strats are just as fast (maybe a half second slower at most).
2. Get a better approach to the bomb flower (he had a sloppy roll).
3. Instead of trying to backwalk right after the HP text, hold downwards and roll once first, then start to backwalk.

ZFG's segment with these improvements will be perfect.

PS: I just thought of something that hasn't crossed my mind before: For the Ganon fight, can we not just JS with the MS before the cutscene and then use the Biggy Sword's crouch stab on his tail? I assume it doesn't work but seems like it should.

Didn't think of that.  I'll test it, but it might still be slower because of an extra pause.

Edit: Oh snap it works.  Equip hammer over longshot and MS equip in seg 67 added to the route and a bomb saved.

just cause i was curious, i made a list of all the segs that can be redone at any time (about 2/3s of them) without much effore

with more effort im sure you could redo more (i.e. you can redo seg 1 anytime, but to redo seg 2, you also need to redo seg 4 because of castle before night)

http://pastebin.ca/1985014

Siglemic's Segment 5 submission is faster than mine by ;16 (just over 1/2 second). It's a 1:51;01.

I think we should certainly settle on Sig's seg 5 for sure, seriously.

Bumping...

A pretty solid segment 4 was submitted, so unless someone wants to improve it segment 5 is going to begin soon.

This is a pretty short segment - head to Kakriko, get Egg, and chuslide warp to shadow early. I don't think anyone has ever looked into the chuslide for shadow early much, if anyone can come up with some good ways to do it quickly, that would help. Or, even better, start practicing the segment :).

The save after seg 4 will probably be uploaded some time today or tomorrow.

The save is here: http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/Team100/WiiSaves/RGSeg4Complete.bin

Example run: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/14421622
This was done on emulator obviously. Done when I was testing the route. The ones that didn't desync I will show.

Points to make:
-I like the way I talk to the cucco lady and receive the egg, notice that angle puts me in perfect position to backwalk to the graveyard
-The chuslide is not really that great, I would consider not copying that and thinking of something else that is faster
-The sidehop off the seam should be done without lining up, it's not really that hard.

When I did my test run through, I was not able to get the chuslide teleport in 1 chu. If anyone practicing this segment can do it, this would be good for others to know.

I came up with a pretty fast method for chuslide in seg 5.  Destroy all bushes except the 3 closest to the wall, line up against the brown fence with Z, turn 90 degrees right to face the grass again, face the leftmost bush and send a chu, then move diagonally right and roll at the rightmost bush.  You'll be at the top of the slope on the right side of the fence which is about the same height as near the graves.  When you let go of R, turn directly 180, do a sideflip left and backflip up, then just climb the seam to shadow.  Its pretty fast and easy so I think its the best to use for this segment if no one else can get a 1 chu.

While this isn't for segment 25, I just watched the other segments and thought "Wouldn't it be faster to collect the fairy upgrade + skulltula at the same time as Zeldas Lullaby in the Hyrule Castle? You don't use the lullaby before segment 20 (I think) when you pick up the skulltula etc. but you still visit the area twice...

Correct me if I'm wrong, is there something I'm missing?

To name a few places, Sun's Song, both magic upgrades, starting the mask trading quest (need to show the guard Zelda's letter) and maybe a couple of others, I just scanned through the route.

You can't get the fairy upgrades until after you get magic so getting ZL and Dins fire at the same time is impossible

Well I thought you could do those afterwards... But I feel stupid after realising the need of magic before Dins fire... I stand corrected  ::)