Title: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Unreal on August 31, 2009, 11:41:49 PM Uncompleted route is in my sig. Needs work. Any suggestions, feel free to post
Runs in the works: Thiradell (http://youtube.com/user/Thiradell) - 11/?? segments completed Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on September 22, 2009, 03:07:01 AM I know this is the Segmented 100% discussion, but I really don't feel like making another topic that might stay as empty as this one, so instead, I'm going to post my Modications to the 100% route *SINGLE SEGMENT STYLE* o0o!
Edit 1/12/2010: this down here vvvvv is old, I'ma make a new one once I fill in the blanks from Unreal's unfinished route Code: *-------------------------* Now as far as suggestions go other than wind direction changes and picking up the first purse upgrade at NFI before Outset (might as well do that along the way to the 50 level labyrinth).. I haven't read too deep into the 100% route, but when do you see Lenzo for the first time? Cause if it's after finding the killer bees, you could incorporate tingle and the pictobox in the middle of finding the kids. example: -Start Hide and seek -grab the song of passing -Make kid behind gravestone run -Enter building, release tingle, get Tingle tuner -Crawl through, grab pictobox, crawl through to a mousetrap (releases you down into the area where you first talk to KoRL) -catch Kid who was behind the gravestone etc etc. Or would that be more along the lines of SS material? EDIT: I didnt realize there was a newer route to look at. Huh. I'm gonna look into that instead of the older one from the SDA topic >_> Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Venick409 on December 18, 2009, 02:42:50 AM I'm planing on Starting a 100% Segmented run when I get some recording equipment.
So hurry up and make the route Unreal!!! Just joking don't get pissed, a little. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on December 18, 2009, 05:07:07 AM you wont like him when he is pissed. he kicks controllers into his console.
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Unreal on December 18, 2009, 06:25:24 AM Oh I see, so I'm the angry forum member around here.... Just so you guys know my wind waker knowledge as of now completley sucks and I have no motivation to finish the route. One of you guys might have to pick up from where I started and finish the route... I'm sorry guys but my real life has interferred with my zelda life haha...
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on January 12, 2010, 12:31:02 PM I think as a side project along with what I'm already doing, I might finish up the 100% route. Of course it'd be nice if Unreal could do it but seeing as how outgoing he is, prolly too busy. I'm not guaranteeing anything as of yet.
Also Unreal, we just give you a hard time about the anger. Not everybody puts up a vid of where he kicks his controller. =[ Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Unreal on January 13, 2010, 04:36:21 AM Yeah, my motivation for gaming completely sucks as everyone should know by now. The worst part about the 100% route is that I stopped right when things got confusing and the real item collecting began so it will be kinda hard to write it from where I left off. (just finished the cannon mini-game east of windfall iirc) You can go to work on it ani... Hell if you do, that would probably be the only way I'd take a look at the route. (you asking for my help >_>)
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Phazon on January 24, 2010, 10:15:05 PM Something unfortunate just occured to me. Third may have to start his run again, because he wastes a lot of time by not starting with the colour pictobox, which I think you need to get the TC from the woman outside the potion shop.
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Thiradell on February 25, 2010, 06:27:22 PM Getting the Deluxe Picto Box is part of the run. Technically, starting with it would be NG+. I need it for that Treasure Chart and also for the full moon picture.
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on July 17, 2011, 11:56:50 AM I finally got around to doing it.
This is still pretty much a WIP, But for the most part it is pretty good IMO http://pastebin.com/p4K3nydu WARNING: it is very long. 1300+ lines and I was lazy during some parts teehee DISCUSS becausei'mprobablyforgettingalotoftricksididthisfromlike90%memorypleasehelpthemeowzerz Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Razor7581 on July 17, 2011, 02:54:24 PM 84. I'm assuming after equipping the GH you plan on skipping Medli Text.
97. Should be Ghoma. 178. Would it be faster to cut down the vines, or to skip the flower surfing? 188. JP chest? 295-299. Klyde's scale speed trick? 334. Is WW dive faster? 401. Warp to FH, sail W to IRI. (Sets you up for the next trick I put below.) 405/406-408. Melt ice around chest, get treasure chart, get on chest and jump to ledge to skip skating? With 401 you also shouldn't need to reset the wind either. 462. Kazooie trick, Unreal trick, or Venick trick? Which one is fastest? 471. CM can be skipped. Not sure if it's faster though. 494 & 495. Skip triple stalfos fight is faster. 552-569. Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but I think Chimpas has a faster route through this room. 599. Jumpslash to Makar? 752. That trick where you can throw the pig across the island would probably be faster. 779. Use Arrows? 787 & 803. Use ice arrows? (Fall and break.) Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on July 17, 2011, 06:16:16 PM 84. It's the exact same as any%, so you can assume so.
97. I like Molgera better :< 178. Cut the vines if you can do it from the bottom floor. If you have to go up it would be faster to skip the flower. 188. That chest is slow and bad. 295-299. Uh, do you mean he has a faster way of doing it, or? Cause otherwise, it's not his trick. 334. Probably yes, waiting for Cerpin to make a vid right now about it then I'll edit later. 401/405-408. I guess if I change the wind to South instead of of South-East it would be better. I'll change it. 462. Unreal's is fastest, since it completely skips playing CM. I'm just used to the Kazooie method (I kinda forgot that I wrote this route mostly for me) 471. It would be faster if she wasn't such a bitch and never does it. 494-495. Forgot this even existed. I'll edit it later 552-569. Why don't you describe it or link to a video/post about it, cause currently this isn't helping at all lol 599. No. You can grapple from the bottom and swing straight into the waterfall without changing anything. It's equally as fast, if not faster. 752. I might as well have said "roll from point a to b" for every step as well; it's assumed. :I (Unless you mean some secret trick where you could toss the pig to the other island in one throw) 779. Actually that is a good idea, I'll change it. 787 & 803. Either way it's a one shot. Doesn't make any sense to change it. Edit: Just kidding, I made the video for the dive myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP_AsdxBL5k Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Razor7581 on July 17, 2011, 08:54:26 PM 295-299. Uh, do you mean he has a faster way of doing it, or? Cause otherwise, it's not his trick. 295-299. http://youtu.be/_NVDAvfU9L4?t=16s552-569. Why don't you describe it or link to a video/post about it, cause currently this isn't helping at all lol 752. I might as well have said "roll from point a to b" for every step as well; it's assumed. :I (Unless you mean some secret trick where you could toss the pig to the other island in one throw) 552-569. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIJ5zNH3USE 752. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhE_dlc1drA <--Don't know who found this but it can be done faster than the video displays. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on July 18, 2011, 12:08:10 AM ....................................... Really?
Reeeeeally? What the fuck :I Stop keepin secrets, man. Anyways, I'll add the first 2, but the 3rd one will depend on whether or not it's daytime. I guess I'll add in an optional. Any more additional comments on the later portion would be nice. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Razor7581 on July 18, 2011, 01:14:33 AM ....................................... Really? Dude I'm not keeping secrets. Sometimes you have to wander around youtube to find obscure, yet useful tricks like that pig throw. I'll look more thoroughly through the route again later.Reeeeeally? What the fuck :I Stop keepin secrets, man. Anyways, I'll add the first 2, but the 3rd one will depend on whether or not it's daytime. I guess I'll add in an optional. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on July 18, 2011, 04:33:06 AM Yeah but that's when you go "Oh. This looks very useful for a speedrun. Perhaps I should shed this light upon my bros and post it ON THE FORUMS" :V
But yeah would be appreciated if you do Edit: Made a new version of the pastebin with the add-ins/corrections http://pastebin.com/ywQFD2zn I'm going to play through the route when I wake up Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Razor7581 on July 18, 2011, 04:42:50 PM 40. Should be bokoblin, not Moblin.
43. Roll past Moblin? 114 & 115. I'm assuming you mean WW dive from Beatle's Ship to FH entrance. 617-626. Fire Arrow trick should be faster. I'm not sure if early hookshot would be an option. 697 & 705. You won't need Makar from 696 on because of Kazooie's trick to skip planting the tree and the stone slab skip. 735 & 736. Need to add pig glitch Ani. 768. Should be "rang Babas, arrow Peahats". 906. Not sure if this trick would be useful at all for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOf0f2Nwlcw 947. Sail to Outset first? Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on July 18, 2011, 06:41:20 PM 40. ok
43. Nope 114-115. LOL no 617-626. it's too dumb to add in, and early hookshot is a no cause it requires hovering and you have a million and a half hearts 697/705. I take him cause of the optional. Assuming you can do the trick consistently, great. if not, it's not worth fucking up once and having to climb all the way back up to try again 735-736. I'll do it when I test whether or not it's day when I get to outset that time 768. k. 906. That's actually not a bad idea rofl 947. I'm too lazy to find that spot to collect the rupees from, and that's only for people who have the tingle tuner. Yes, i am THAT lazy. :3 Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Razor7581 on July 18, 2011, 06:56:03 PM 114-115. LOL no Why? It's the fastest location for diving into FH.Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: AniMeowzerz on July 18, 2011, 08:33:35 PM It's also the dumbest.
In a 30 minute period, I've been able to get the bag dive.. three times? I'm like 80% consistent with cerpin's spot. If I ever make an optimized route for segmented, I'll add it cause it is admittedly a faster spot, but for ease I'm keeping cerpin's for this route I have just found a MAJOR IMPROVEMENT that I forgot about. Darknut strategy: Parry off helmet, shoot with ice arrow, smash with hammer :I Goddamnit man Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Cerpin on July 19, 2011, 08:51:38 PM Why? It's the fastest location for diving into FH. Barely, and the difficulty doesn't justify saving 3 seconds. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: ArthurDent on September 28, 2011, 07:32:43 PM Suggestion: Since the world map is filled in a 100% MM run then the sea chart should be written out too. So it will be similar ruling across the series for defining speed run categories.
Anyway, is still this speed run going forth? Segment 62 in Unreal's route would be a monster segment I think. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Manocheese on September 30, 2011, 04:01:29 AM Filling out the world map is not a requirement of a 100% Majora's Mask run.
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: ArthurDent on September 30, 2011, 11:13:12 AM It is, and so is done in the current run. The 100% definition for that game is to get what isn't lost through time.
And maybe it would be fine with the same kind of ruling for all Zelda games. And I didn't mean it all serious that the sea chart should be completed, I think would be to tedious and it could stay out together with the figurines. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Manocheese on September 30, 2011, 08:15:46 PM I looked at the low%/100% definitions thread and it appears that an incorrect MM 100% definition made its way in thanks to this post by petrie:
Quote In fact, of all Zelda games, MM, and only MM, has a really easy definition of 100%: All items that don't disappear after playing the song of time. This requires everything you listed, plus area maps, dungeon maps, and compasses. Unfortunately, precedent is that those don't count, but that definition is so nice and simple that they really should be considered. The only place it even makes a difference in the route is Stone Tower, as for all the others you pretty much have to go right by the map and compass while getting the stray fairies. Things like map and compass have never been part of 100%. The real definition is "All Heart Pieces, Masks, Bottles, Great Fairies’ Gifts, Upgrades (Sword/Bomb/Quiver/Wallet), and completed Quest Status (all songs and Bombers' Notebook). It isn’t required to fill out the Bombers' Notebook." This definition was provided by Radix in 2005. I've requested that it be added to the MM page. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: RingRush on September 30, 2011, 09:23:13 PM The problem is an MM run was just submitted with all maps and compasses, and I think in general the community has moved towards that definition. It has a logical basis and a faster run to go with it, so I think it is fair for the "official" definition.
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Manocheese on September 30, 2011, 09:42:50 PM How is it more logical to require maps and compasses? They aren't required in OoT or any other game in which such items exist (to my knowledge, at least). There have even been cases in Castlevania games where the in-game 100% definition requires all maps, but SDA doesn't. Why is Majora's Mask different from every other game when it comes to maps?
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: UchihaSasuke on October 01, 2011, 04:50:30 AM because they don't disappear when you use song of Time.
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: RingRush on October 01, 2011, 04:52:50 AM Because not requiring them simplifies it to a single line: Everything that is saved when you play Song of Time. The less complicated the ruleset and with the least arbitrary exclusions/inclusions, the better. Other than precedent, it is pretty hard to argue against the SoT definition.
Normally I'd say it isn't worth changing, but the SoT definition is the one everyone has been using for many years. The question isn't "should we change to the SoT definition" but "should we overturn the SoT definition". We already have runs using the SoT definition...I really don't think it is worth switching back. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Manocheese on October 01, 2011, 02:31:06 PM It's fine if people don't want to change it because the new definition is entrenched too deeply. But I disagree that it's any simpler. Anyone planning a route needs to unpack "everything that doesn't disappear when you use the Song of Time" into a laundry list of items that's even longer than the original.
EDIT: In response to the original question, the MM 100% definition shouldn't affect the definitions for any other games for the reasons I've stated. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Ucansayperdy on October 10, 2011, 02:19:59 AM Playing through this.
807: You sail by a Big Octo Here. Prolly worth mentioning. 903: Its been awhile since I played through the whole game, but is the windmill supposed to do anything here? It just kinda nudged it. 919: The route never got the chart for the HP 951: 1157: W Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Kaztalek on October 15, 2011, 04:06:49 AM yo manocheese you're pretty dumb sorry to say
why would MM 100% not include a complete bomber's notebook (among other things)? the reason the song of time definition is used is because it incorporates every achievable item and event deemed significant enough to stay with the game after saving. if you accomplish everything by doing so, you have essentially completed the game fully as there is nothing else to obtain radix is pretty lame and his opinions mean nothing, so basing a definition on something he said 6 years ago holds absolutely no merit and makes no sense whatsoever Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: ING-X on October 19, 2011, 11:24:35 PM Wow, kaztalek, what a nice, rational way to argue your stance. <_<
Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: bluephantom340 on October 19, 2011, 11:36:39 PM Wow, kaztalek, what a nice, rational way to argue your stance. <_< Kaztalek is right though.Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Kaztalek on October 22, 2011, 07:09:21 PM Wow, kaztalek, what a nice, rational way to argue your stance. <_< what are you getting atmy argument is rational, "nice" is subjective Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Thiradell on February 19, 2012, 06:51:31 PM Dang, nice Darknut find. There's a couple issues with that strategy:
-The Skull Hammer hit has to come immediately, so if there's multiple Darknuts in the room, it can be a little difficult for this to work. -There are two types of parries which, to my knowledge, are randomly chosen, and I get the one where Link rolls around behind and slashes at their chest armor more often. A successful chest parry doesn't even guarantee that a helmet parry will be next; Link will often just continue doing the roll-around. It also doesn't save a whole lot of time against weaker Darknuts anyway. I'll try to see if it's usable somewhere. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Thiradell on February 26, 2012, 12:02:34 AM Fwiw, I'm now done with 74 segments of my run. I'm on Outset Island right now, I figured out a pretty cool way to get the huge pig across the water by making him angry, and then putting him in the water to cool him off (like Super Mario Sunshine!)
Savage Labyrinth is up next, and after that all the big dungeons are done, so after the total mess that is Windfall Island, I just have to get Triforce Charts + Shards + Forest Water stuff + Trading Sequence + other Heart Pieces! Seems like the run will end up around 100-110 segments. I'm thinking of going back over the entire run and recording commentary for every segment, to try to make things a little more interesting to watch in some places, and to explain stuff. I doubt I'll submit to SDA, because it was a huge hassle to do that last time; I can't run torrent programs on my computer, and I don't have all the segments on discs. Title: Re: Segmented 100% Discussion Post by: Thiradell on March 03, 2012, 06:27:19 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsbCh_QFjIw
30-minute Savage Labyrinth segment, with a sweet finish at the end using Ani's new Iron Knuckle strategy. |