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Title: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 18, 2013, 01:40:44 AM So, some guy (https://twitter.com/HomegrownDufuss) who doesn't play OoT asked Moltov what he'd have to run to be his friend, and the reply was "DK% (http://pastebin.com/5VzcXyYr)". It's some super arbitrary category with the following retarded specs:
Goals:
Rules:
Well, it's random and dumb enough that I'm going to run it. :P I've been routing it, but I don't have enough general experience to know what sub-route is faster, etc. That's where you experts come in. Here's my route so far: Quote START sword pause #1 (sword) rupee route (40r) buy shield (0r) pause #2 (shield) pokey escape wess to kak collect cuccos for bottle pause #3 (bottle) get bugs from under rock pause #4 (savewarp) buy deku shield pause #5 (shield) talk with mido kill baba for deku stick (1s) talk with deku tree enter deku tree kill baba for nuts (5n) pause #6 (bottle, nuts, stick) vine text skip b1 skip (4n) kill baba next to hole for nuts (9n) 2-3-1 gohma clip, kill gohma (7n) ww to ganon's castle (6n) pause #7 (savewarp) enter spirit trial get silver rupees (5n) grab chus from chest (4n) (20c) pause #8 (chus, nuts, stick) exit ganon's castle crawl through hole avoid guards talk with zelda lullaby cs skip (19c) at game over, save and quit lost woods chuslide to skip owl text (18c) aquascape chuhop into zd (17c) king zora skip (16c) jabu fish skip first room (15c) get boomerang (2n) pause #9 (savewarp) exit kokiri through front head to hyrule marketplace [what is day/night cycle here?] DoT skip pause #10 (savewarp) [ROUTE NEEDS MOST WORK STARTING HERE] head to kak, then graveyard get hylian shield from grave do dampe race for hookshot pause #11 (hylian shield, chus, hookshot, ocarina) head to lost woods: a) via death mountain, then goron city warp (14c) b) savewarp, walk to kokiri mido skip [this is why we need the hookshot now] to sacred forest meadow ledge jump from water to do maze skip use chu for minuet cs skip (15/14c) [youtu.be/E7-pM13heY8] at game over, save and quit head to kak, then graveyard chuslide teleport onto seam (14/13c) seamwalk to shadow temple truth spinner chuflip across gap (13/12c) silver rupee room [optional weirdshot, costs 1c] small key from chest fence clip jump onto wheel play ZL on boat into invisible wall maze redead clip for boss key back to huge gap send chu to knock bridge down (12/11c) to boss room [youtu.be/FypphVD17zQ] (11/10c) kill bongo with isg blue warp DONE **Maybe we can wait to get hookshot until the Shadow Temple. Can't we do Mido skip with a chu?** That means we don't have shield, which means we need a shieldless setup for the Minuet cs skip. TODO: Would it be faster to get BotW chus, 99r to buy hylian shield, then walk to hyrule market and get ZL normal way? ----------------------------------------------------- pokey escape wess to kak cucco dive to botw fill wallet from dead hand chest (99r) botw chus savewarp out of botw out of kak to hyrule marketplace avoid guards chu damage boost to hole ------------------------------------------------------ Out of my uncertainty, I think BotW chus would save time, as would getting hookshot after Minuet. However, we have to go to the graveyard anyway for the shield; we need either shield or hookshot for Mido skip, don't we? Anyway, from the graveyard to the Lost Woods is my biggest uncertainty right now. Input very much appreciated! Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: PsyMarth on September 18, 2013, 01:57:54 AM Why not deku to shadow ww?
Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Jbop on September 18, 2013, 02:03:22 AM Some quick observations:
...However, we have to go to the graveyard anyway for the shield; we need either shield or hookshot for Mido skip, don't we? Nope, just backflip. And you can skip the minuet cs just by walking into it as a chu explodes in your hand, you don't need a shield. BotW and skipping bottle is definitely faster. That being said, I believe you miscounted chus, which means you wouldn't have enough from BotW to go to the lost woods thru GC -- unless you got hover boots, which would be something you should time Why not deku to shadow ww? Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that would be a lot slower. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 18, 2013, 02:19:37 AM Nope, just backflip. Well, that certainly helps.And you can skip the minuet cs just by walking into it as a chu explodes in your hand, you don't need a shield. Knew that was possible, just don't know of a setup.BotW and skipping bottle is definitely faster. Good to know.That being said, I believe you miscounted chus, which means you wouldn't have enough from BotW to go to the lost woods thru GC I originally made the route for BotW chus (back when I forgot about ZL), and I had enough chus then.In fact, it's highly likely my route dump contains leftovers from that route, including chu counts. -- unless you got hover boots, which would be something you should time I thought about it, but I think it'd waste at least 2 minutes, given there are only 3 uses for the boots, and 2 are solved with chuflips.And yeah, I think Deku to Shadow would be slower than even my current WW route. For one, I'd have to get the Odd Mushroom. Second, I need Hookshot for Bongo anyway, so if I'm in the area... Third, how would I get inside the Deku Tree as adult without the Hover Boots? Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: PsyMarth on September 18, 2013, 05:55:41 AM I'm just proposing bad ideas at this point, but can't you megaflip over the loading zone for deku? You could technically kill bongo with sword only as well.
Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 18, 2013, 03:14:25 PM I'm just proposing bad ideas at this point, but can't you megaflip over the loading zone for deku? You could technically kill bongo with sword only as well. The 3 ways I know of getting into the Deku Tree as adult:
Also, for actually getting through the Shadow Temple, we need the Hookshot. Wrong Warping would bypass that, but again, would probably be way slower to get the trade items, etc. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: r0bd0g on September 18, 2013, 07:58:18 PM You don't need the hoverboots to get into deku as adult you can just hover up instead of hoverboosting from the tree. If you haven't completed forest you can even do it without explosives.
Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 18, 2013, 07:59:59 PM You don't need the hoverboots to get into deku as adult you can just hover up instead of hoverboosting from the tree. If you haven't completed forest you can even do it without explosives. Please, do tell.Even though I think it'll still be slower. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: r0bd0g on September 18, 2013, 08:12:23 PM I'm not saying it's faster, just that you can hover. Without explosives you hover off a deku baba or something, I've never done it :p.
Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: nathanisbored on September 18, 2013, 09:09:30 PM technically a megajump, not a hoverboost.
...these names are silly Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 18, 2013, 09:51:15 PM technically a megajump, not a hoverboost. If you say that a HESS is really a HISS, I will punch you through the internet. ;)...these names are silly Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: nathanisbored on September 18, 2013, 09:58:24 PM If you say that a HESS is really a HISS, I will punch you through the internet. ;) lol no i hate that. also all the supersliding names are bad and misleading, so there's no point in even trying to distinguish them Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 20, 2013, 12:49:16 AM I'm busy now and for the next few days. When I'm free, I'll post the updated route, as well as any concerns about chu counts (which are apparently an issue).
Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 24, 2013, 01:56:53 AM All right, here's the updated route:
Quote START sword pause #1 (sword) rupee route (40r) buy shield (0r) pause #2 (shield) pokey escape wess to kak cucco dive to botw traditional botw chus (10c) dead hand rupee chest (99r) pause #3 (chus, savewarp) exit botw exit kak through front head to hyrule market buy hylian shield (19r) head to hyrule castle various shortcuts to trail end chu damage boost onto ledge (9c) zl cs skip (8c) at game over, save and quit head to lost woods aquascape chuhop into zd (7c) get nuts from pot by shop (5n) king zora skip (6c) jabu fish skip jabu main room (5c) normal jabu up to boomerang (3n) pause #5 (savewarp) exit jabu pause #6 (savewarp) head to temple of time dot skip MASTER SWORD pause #7 (hylian shield, savewarp) head to lost woods through kokiri mido skip head to sacred forest meadow ledge jump from water to do maze skip minuet cs skip (4c) at game over, save and quit head to kak, then graveyard dampe race for hookshot pause #8 (chus, hookshot, ocarina) chuslide teleport onto seam (3c) seamwalk to shadow temple truth spinner room (2c) silver rupees fence clip wheel jump play zl redead clip for boss key send chu over to knock bridge down (1c) cross pre-boss room (0c) kill bongo DONE Doesn't factor in: Time of day Miscounts :P The main thing I'm worried about is chu counts. As it is, there's no room for error. If I miscounted a chu, we have a 1-chu buffer in the form of the Jabu main room hover to the switch. Hover boots are an option if you're still short a chu or 2, but are probably slower to get by 2 mins. Oh, and time of day too. I'm thinking castle after BotW isn't gonna work without waiting. I'm retarded. We need the DEKU shield for those, not the HYLIAN shield. What do you guys think about BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip? Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Jbop on September 24, 2013, 03:24:53 AM Oh, and time of day too. I'm thinking castle after BotW isn't gonna work without waiting. ...We need the DEKU shield for those, not the HYLIAN shield. What do you guys think about BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip? cb4n after BotW = cb4n after kak ;) That being said it makes more sense to me to do BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip and buy the shield while you're in the market/castle (tho no one ever said I was a master at routing xD) Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 24, 2013, 03:49:30 PM cb4n after BotW = cb4n after kak ;) That seems best now. That being said it makes more sense to me to do BotW -> Jabu -> ZL -> DoT skip and buy the shield while you're in the market/castle (tho no one ever said I was a master at routing xD) We still have to consider the day-night cycle in the courtyard though. My gut tells me ZL after BotW would make this cycle perfect, and that Jabu first would mess it up. Castle Before Night after Kak... My memory is telling me that ZFG used to do this all the time (and fail it all the time, lol), but my brain is telling me there's no way there would be enough daytime left to get there. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Jbop on September 24, 2013, 05:38:14 PM Castle Before Night after Kak... My memory is telling me that ZFG used to do this all the time (and fail it all the time, lol), but my brain is telling me there's no way there would be enough daytime left to get there. Check out a No Wrong Warp run and you'll see what I mean Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on September 24, 2013, 09:31:31 PM Check out a No Wrong Warp run and you'll see what I mean Of course I knew what you meant, I was just reflecting on my knowledge of it.If you can do Castle Before Night with the aquascape, then Pokey Escape should be no problem. In my next free time, I will test the time of day for ZL. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on October 08, 2013, 04:41:39 PM All right. I did a testrun up to the Shadow Temple boat, and it has given me some insights.
1) We have to do Jabu before ZL if we want to do the Lullaby CS Skip. The only damage we can take without losing a great deal of time is from Golden Skulltulas, which deal damage in 1 heart increments. Not good. We would have to use 2 bombchus for the CS skip, but we can't spare that extra one. 2) If doing Jabu first, you have to wait ~60s in the field for the castle drawbridge to open up. Undesirable, but I think doing ZL first would also have to wait before doing DoT skip. We can partially use this time for getting down to 1/2 heart for the CS skip. 3) Yep, Mido Skip works with a simple backflip. The angle is pretty precise, though, and I think Link has to be in one of two certain frames in his backwalk animation when he backflips. Weird. 4) Text skip oddities in the SFM. If you press A and B as the second textbox comes up, that box and the next are skipped. If not, the text box isn't skippable at all. 5) That guard at the beginning of the maze. I think it may be faster to be at 1 heart before the maze, and let him hit you into the water. That way you won't have to wait too long for him to walk the other way, and you also don't have to worry about him killing you. Someone post now so that I won't feel guilty for triple-posting for the final route. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: r0bd0g on October 08, 2013, 06:14:48 PM I doubt you would have to wait before dot skip. The ZL CS sets time of day. If you really can't get a 1/2 heart damage anywhere you can probably just jump off the chains or something. But normally a chu damage boost is used to get to ZL... does this mean you're planning to wake Talon?
Also the text in SFM you can backflip over it. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Jbop on October 08, 2013, 08:11:25 PM There's nothing special about doing mido skip without hookshot; they're both just backflips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ekNJ9Rm_0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLSDZ0VhmLU Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on October 09, 2013, 12:42:55 AM I doubt you would have to wait before dot skip. The ZL CS sets time of day. If you really can't get a 1/2 heart damage anywhere you can probably just jump off the chains or something. But normally a chu damage boost is used to get to ZL... does this mean you're planning to wake Talon? Also the text in SFM you can backflip over it. *facepalm* I chu megaflipped in my testrun because my normal way of chu boosting didn't reach. Now it's just down to the extra travel doing ZL first incurs, and whether it is slower than waiting for dawn. Great to know about the SFM text. Is is precise at all? Is there a video of it? There's nothing special about doing mido skip without hookshot; they're both just backflips. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ekNJ9Rm_0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLSDZ0VhmLU First-person mode is equivalent to the 2 frames. Huh. Guess I reinvented the wheel. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: bluephantom340 on October 09, 2013, 06:11:18 PM Smells like RingRush
Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on October 09, 2013, 09:05:42 PM I was gonna make a route comparison from BotW to ToT (minus parts that are the same, like the Jabu segment), but I can't decide whether to include Hyrule Castle. You have to take a slower route during the day (or yolo it), and when to start counting time for it... It hurts my brain.
Help me out here. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on October 16, 2013, 03:46:20 PM All right, I did the comparison. I'll edit this post with a video later.
As tested, doing ZL first is 15 seconds faster than doing Jabu first. However, in the Jabu First tests, going to Hyrule Castle was about 10 seconds slower using the "intended" route (because it was daytime). If you yolo the Bridge Guard Skip during the day, the gap is shrunk to 5 seconds. Also, instead of the short Cosmo Superswim, you can backwalk, saving 5 seconds for Jabu First. That won't save time for ZL First because you have to wait for the morning to come anyway. Additionally, in the ZL First route, you have to do the Boulder ESS Owl Skip in the Lost Woods, which is just dumb. On top of that, when you Pokey Escape to head to the ToT, the gaurd guy is standing in a different pose, making the angle you stab at much more picky. I had to C-Up the angle to get it consistently. All in all, even if ZL is marginally faster (< 10 seconds), it introduces what I think is significant difficulty and room for error. On the average run, Jabu First will be faster. EDIT: Wow, this wasn't late at all. Finally got the comparison video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOl6NiparYU) up. EDIT2: And I should keep this leaderboards link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ak2KOC-vwVl-dGpKU0tqV1J3Um04MHVMd3pPUHpJNnc&output=html) for later. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on December 18, 2013, 07:37:58 PM Just took the WR with 1:05:13 on USA N64, and I can still save 10 minutes!
Thanks for all the help guys! Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: elo on December 20, 2013, 02:00:31 AM Fun thing to do, was like the only thing I could motivate myself for (i'm sick atm)
So, yeah, I finished a run, went pretty well except for Escape and Shadow block skip http://www.twitch.tv/elorkeloff/c/3419745 Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Dufuss on December 22, 2013, 01:41:04 AM What the heck. People are running DK% now? :o I'm honored...?
Sad thing is, I tweeted my run at Moltov and he never even responded. I guess I'll never be his friend even though I went out of my way to learn this wack category in a game I didn't really play previously. At least you guys had some fun with it. I'll add your run to the leaderboards, elo. I'm also happy to see Jbop (who gave me my first race win by forfeiting haha) and nathanisbored. o.O Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Chain on May 06, 2014, 04:32:09 PM Here are some route which use the deku to shadow ww which I'm pretty sure are faster:
1.0/1.1 route (which is fastest) http://pastebin.com/fvPKqF4n 1.2 route http://pastebin.com/ZJYp0BY8 I think skipping lullaby, hookshot and most of shadow temple easily makes up for time lost doing the trade quest (especially since in the 1.0/1.1 route the trade quest is just egg -> eyeball frog) #EDIT: I just realised you don't have hover boots to using damage boost to enter deku is silly, it should be possible with angled backflip hovers though. Also there's no way of getting ground jump with chus in sacred meadows (I don't think) and I don't know if you can clear it without that and hookshot. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on May 06, 2014, 07:49:44 PM I talked a bit with Chain about the Deku WW route, and I'm pretty sure it's faster for v1.0 and v1.1. It could be faster for v1.2 and VC, though I'm more on the fence about that.
As for the SFM, just do it the same way as in current runs: go to the water's edge, jump, grab the ledge. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Chain on May 07, 2014, 10:56:33 AM I also just found this on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EWvwFUeM_s
Which may be possible to adapt into an adult setup which means we may only have to do one or two angled backflip hovers for the deku segment. It may be slow but at this point in the run you'd be on a timer anyway so it doesn't matter. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on May 10, 2014, 02:34:27 AM I also just found this on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EWvwFUeM_s Which may be possible to adapt into an adult setup which means we may only have to do one or two angled backflip hovers for the deku segment. It may be slow but at this point in the run you'd be on a timer anyway so it doesn't matter. This was very interesting to test. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn6jIwqp4Hg) Oh, and this trick is useful in real categories, right? EDIT: I made it faster (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_wN6hexw4) and confirmed 2 chus will suffice for the hover. Title: Re: DK% routing Post by: Fishaman P on May 22, 2014, 08:01:22 PM Since I just got a 1.0 gold cart, I've been thinking more about this since I can save some serious time.
I took a look at Chain's (1.0/1.1) route, and we get the Fairy Ocarina. Why? The only reason I can think of is that it's to avoid going down Zora's River twice, but I still think that's faster, especially since we can WESS to the Market then. Well, and there's playing the Minuet, but OI doesn't lose THAT much time. It may actually depend on the language; I was thinking English. |