ZSR Forums

If you have any questions about the workings of the game, tricks, routes, or speedruns, this is the place to ask or help others.

Is there a route available for a segmented any% run?

I don't really have enough time at the moment to try single segment runs but I can't find any routes on the internet.

Thanks!

There is not any right now, KlydeStorm had one but at this point it's dated. I would imagine it would be similar to the RTA route and segmented mostly by savewarps. As far as tricks go, segmented would not bring anything new aside from a possible Puppet Ganon skip.

Segmented runs aren't really faster. A segmented run consists of doing segments over and over to get them perfect. AFAIK they aren't really meant for casual speed running. Also, there is no segmented route, and I don't think anyone will make a route for a while because of all the recent discoveries.

Sticky'd.

Is there a list of good spots to do storage at?

Not yet.

I need help with routing in a master sword speedrun. In my practice run I just did forbidden woods, but I'm not sure where I should go from here. I'm pretty much a noob at knowing how to have the wind. So if someone could tell me sail locations and wind changes up till TotG for me. I would be really appreciative. Thanks ahead of time.

EDIT: Just for clarification, I have the wind at NW from leafing into FW.

If you follow this you can learn the whole route: http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=fcDzcxRRXTU

Are you sure about that route in there? He doesn't even go to Eastern Triangle after FW. Wouldn't it be faster to go there after FW as opposed to after Southern Triangle?

That is the most recent Master Sword route, everything was timed to make it as fast as possible

I think Swordless couldn't find the eastern triangle island in that run so he went there later after S triangle. This is alot slower so don't mind that video, just go to E triangle after FW and then sail west to greatfish.

^ That's correct, I apologize I didn't watch this myself

Alright, can someone explain how to get the barrel trick in FF1 consistent? I keep practicing that one section with the two moblins but half the time I end up getting caught by the second one. I try to run behind the wall but he still seems to catch me.

How long do you think before you will have enough time to do a single segment run?
my suggestion would be to just do parts of the game to learn the single segment and when you think you have enough time to do a whole run (based on the times of your practice segments) you could try a single segment. This is what i did a couple of years ago when i first learned a WW route for a zelda speedrun event, the first time i actually did the whole run was at the event. Breaking up the game into 3 categories (mainly because of 3 save slots); start to enter ToG, Tog to defeat Wind temple, and triforce chart/piece collection and defeat ganondorf.
I still use this same method except I have more save slots now and emulator, but the principle is the same as in practice the parts often and when i find time i do a run (which until Uni semester is over is just the Saturday english no tuner any% race on SRL)

Run toward the barrel, pick it up & drop it immediately, and make your way around them. The first one will not see you for sure if you're decently fast, but the second one is a bit trickier. If you don't get passed him with just about perfect speed, it's likely he'll see you. If you don't trust how fast you were going, go around Moblin 2's right side and wait for him to turn around, then go.

I've gotten caught several times by the first one and it was really surprising, but I know what I did wrong. Just one roll in a bad direction could get you caught by the first one; don't roll parallel to the ledge you're running along when trying to pass him up with one final roll, try to roll diagonally forward if possible. He's generally forgiving, but it still doesn't hurt to be careful.

I'm trying to learn Dry Storage and need to clear something up.

I'm attempting the Boss Key skip on Dragon Roost Cavern. I can do the Wind Waker dive but I can't seem to get the timing right putting it away.

I know I should put it away 3 frames before I land. Does that mean pretty much the instant I land, or more towards the middle of my fall?

Thanks!

It's sorta right before the instant you land. It's easier to learn through experience though; once you get a grasp on when to do it you can do it pretty much anywhere.

Delayed pressing B by a little bit and pulled it off pretty quickly. Boss Key skip also worked out.

Thanks for the advice!

Just wondering if anyone has a video of the new Master sword route with dry storage and whatnot, have had a bit of a look around and can't dig one up, thanks.

hey,

how detailed do you want it to be? I was thinking of making videos for the most common used tricks with commentary and FAQs and detailing them as well as writing down the routes in pastebins... to document tWW more.

so, how detailed? I'll probably have the text done by tomorrow

I could try doing some Master Sword runs today saying why I do what I do, explaining things step-by-step and such. Anything to 1-up Vulpone, you know.  ;)

Also, are you more interested in the any% route up to Master Sword or just the Master Sword category? There are some differences up to Forest Haven between the two, plus the obvious discrepancies with Tingle, the BPR chart and the Elixir Soup.

I think this answers Vulpone and your questions, I hope

I was more just after a normal run of it but commentary to whatever depth is always welcome and adds to the fun, the Any% videos are easy to dig up I was really looking for just the master sword category as like you said there is a few differences and I was just curious how it all played out as it'd be cool to learn it as well and race it!

Alright here's a run I had: http://www.twitch.tv/yashichidsf/b/337384179 (http://www.twitch.tv/yashichidsf/b/337384179) I got WR in it too, because MS Eng no Tuner WR is an important thing, you know

Cheers dude, will check it out when I get home, and it is important, not alot of people can claim they have a World Record under their belt  ;D

Yeah, hope I helped. If I missed anything and you still have questions, feel free to ask. :)

All been good so far, with the exception of the beedles ship WW dive, If I sit on the ship and wait for the nose to rise I can get it 95%~ however if I spin the camera and run at it similar to what you do I can only really hit it 15%~ is there some secret to it or am I just a baddy?

What's with the main site saying something about early master sword?? I felt like low% was the "earliest" you could get it but there must be something I'm missing...

Early master sword in this game would mean that you complete FF2 early in the game just after you get the wind waker to get the master sword after the cutscene. We haven't found any good use of this so far so it's useless, but cool!

Is there a english no tuner any% route anywhere? I want to get into learning this game but haven't found much in the way of routes.

If there is a written route somewhere, I've never seen it. I believe most people learned by watching others, and you'd really need to do that to get a good feel for the route anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a pastebin of the route lying around, though.

I am trying to do a None-Tingle turner run and i was Wondering:

The glitch cosmo uses at 2 hours 57 min, is it possible to do that with Medli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkczgahpDpQ

With storage you can climb the statue and go to that room, however the "stone" (what i mentioned in the video), is blocking your path.
I can get medli  out of bounds and fly to the "light", however i can't seems to get the stone "Dissapear".
Thats why i am wondering, what Cosmo is doing at 2 hours 57 min, is that possible with Medli?

Unfortunately, Medli cannot aim down far enough (so the light won't hit the wall). If we do somehow get medli to aim down far enough from that platform then it would probably work and would save time in the non-tuner and TAS routes. Good theory though, never even thought about it myself

Question about loading zone of boss/miniboss doors in dungeons.
Maybe ababob or someone can answer this

Is the loading zone for a miniboss/boss room always there from as soon as you enter the dungeon, or do you have to load the adjacent room to the boss/minboss room for the loading zone to be there?
And if it is there from the start could you theoretically leaf over to the loading zone through the unloaded adjacent room?

In the Windwaker almost all "Rooms" are on separated "Maps", this does mean that the loading zone of a boss/miniboss only can be accessed if you are in the good map. I will advice to check the Earth Temple to understand what i mean. For example cosmo's zombie hover to go to the miniBoss, he goes out of bounds -> Then he fly's to the loading zone, while he is flying he can see all "Rooms" in the map

However in the OOT and Majora's Mask it is possible to go to the boss Loading zone, from the entrance of the dungeon (For example the water temple in the Majora's Mask)

Each room has it's own list of exits. I haven't tested to see if you can hit the miniboss/boss exits from other maps. I really should have thought of this earlier. It is entirely possible that it will work, or that some rooms will have the exits loaded. My guess is that it won't work like how it does in MM, where you can just go to the boss exit, but I'll have to try. Nintendo tends to fuck exits up.

yeah that is what i have thought, I have been mucking around in the earth temple and trying to clip from the room where makar is taken into the miniboss room, however i cant see where it is like i can if i did the bomb clip. So i am unsure if i am going to the wrong place or the loading zone isnt there for me to leaf over, however after studying maps and .

Also I remember cosmo mentioning during AGDQ that there is one place in the wind temple that we cant get around using the iron boots. i thought it he was talking about the room with the giant fan at the bottom and where we currently use the boots to open the floor up, right after using the warp pot.
However i figured out how to get beyond that hurdle quickly so i am starting to think I remembered incorrectly. Now I am thinking he was talking about the room right after doing the second bomb clip, (the only room we actually use a small key to enter). this room requires the boots to hit a floor switch on a high platform which unlocks the door (locked by bars) on the other side.
So do I actually remember incorrectly or is my memory right, and if so then how do we currently know of on how to avoid using the boots in this room.
(also if i did remember correctly and the spot that i think he was talking about is not yet cracked let me know and i will upload a vid of my way of getting to the mini boss room without using the boots).

I also cant get past the gust room that has the boos door at the end of it (got there using boots) if i have storage without boots

EDIT:, ok im uploading a vid of some wind temple stuff.
it processing now but here is the link anyway
[it failed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V1o92bzE58 This is the one switch that can't be skipped, at the end. The room past the door is unloaded so clipping directly past will not help, and the only way to load it is to open the door...so... :-\

yeah thats what i thought now. anyway my vid failed to load:( ill re-upload it

i am having troubles with uploading it
what are the best settings to have when recording with amarectv for uploading to youtube

EDIT:
i rerecorded it in xsplit to upload to youtube, help with amarectv would be appreciated though.

Anyways the my alternative wind temple route can be found here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlEsDWdygqc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlEsDWdygqc)

most of it is probably known already but what the hell, i uploaded it anyway.
The video includes:
skipping both floor switches in the main room (room where makar is captive)
Storage twice, (one in the dark)
a tunerless boss key skip (which doesn't require a hover)

This route though is very unforgiving and similar to earth temple, if you fail some things you may have to do half of the dungeon again.

I came up with this route mainly while trying to see if i can do this temple without iron boots but you cant :( I played pretty bad in the video, but i think this route might be faster than the tunerless route, but slower the the tuner route. (even though I have double magic here, my magic never falls below half way, so route can be done with single magic meter)

some notes. (i would put these notes in a spoiler box, but i dont know how on ZSR)
0:52 - you could use the boots here like we do already and wont need to leaf pump, did it this way to show getting the hookshot without boots though.
       Also there is a chest (containing 100 rupees) in this room you can use to get storage instead of the one I use at 4:27. You have to use makar to plant tree then climb on the tree and leaf to the spring after getting chest storage. you then use the boots and leaf directly to the other side. this may be faster than using the other chest.

3:09 - i use the spring to get storage, I am pretty sure this has been known for a while. Geez I'm terrible at getting storage today.

4:23 - I do this leaf back flip trick all the time in my tuner runs

4:27 - I use this chest here to get storage since I was trying to do this part without boots, the other chest mentioned earlier is probably faster.

4:40 - I kill the peahats because they sometimes got in the way.

4:45 - this statue is the first of things that can go wrong. firstly i go up the left side since makar will start gas-bagging about the weight of the thing if you get to close to him.
       Also you can get crushed form the eyebrows and nose if your not careful, and not only that at some angles you can actually clip though it and end up on the other side. this is great for getting makar out but then your trapped. This doesn't sound right!!!:P

4:53 - the eyebrows on this guy has crushed me as well, also if you seem to get to it without standing on him you can try some leaf pumps against it. this seems to work sometimes.

5:09 - you can never clip with the first ledge grab this only allows you to clip into the pillar. I had some difficulty with it this time, but most of the time on the 3rd ledge grab I clip out of bounds. You have to be careful here as well since you can sometime fall done before you have clipped out of bounds and then have to go all way back to the statues. You can even clip through some times and see it if you rotate the camera, at 4:45 you can see this but I accidentally walked back in bounds:(

7:08 - terrible min boss fight

10:58 - using the compass chest to get chest storage here, since it is the closest chest to the bottom floor.

11:10 - ill you should be able to see what happens here at the end of the video, i dont usually fail this clip this many time

12:14 - if you pull the leaf to late and die, the compass chest is still closed for a retry:)

12:44 - the road block :(

13:09 - another unforgiving part, if you fall in this room your done. not only that the jump off the fan cage requires 3 near perfect leaf pumps and a good jump to make it on the other side.

13:46 - if you fall in this gap your done also. I have link positioned so his right foot is pretty much off the ledge before i side hop.

13:59 - no need for sidling here.

14:05 - the tunerless boss key skip. i think with practice you could do this more quickly. but yeah just walk around the door with storage, similar to FW. Need to be careful you don't fall off though nut maybe you could save your self with the leaf if you react fast enough.

14:25 - bad boss fight, good music. why do we get rewarded for bad play?

May I have an explanation of the Zombie Hover in the Earth temple? Or more specifically the angle I need to clip through? I thought I had been doing the set up right that I've seen Cosmo do, but I guess I'm not angled right. Thank you to whoever answers.

If you're on english:
-Enter the door, turn around and do 2 backflips
-Go into c-up and angle yourself so that the out-most edge of the door frame (on the right) is between the u and n in Return
-Walk over into the left corner as far as you can with your chest storage
-2 backflips and drop a bomb
-Pull out your sword and let go of L until the bomb knocks you back
-Hold L again and hover

I actually use Japanese.

I set it up like that but I'm not clipping OoB

It's not only the angle that matters there, you still need to mash hard enough. I made that setup trying to see if it only was the mashing that mattered for that trick but it wasn't, the angle and the mashing pretty much goes together. :P

I was just watching Cosmo's WR run, and I noticed he stopped at a reef after the superswim from ice ring isle before entering the earth temple with Medli. I tried to go straight to the temple, and there wasn't a soft lock... Did he stop at the reef by accident, or has no one yet realized that we can superswim straight to Headstone?

If this is the same scene, what happened is that Cosmo wasnt sure if his super swim wouldve made it.
Instead of going for it, he stopped at the reef. Later he was mad about not going for it.

Alright thanks. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't screwing up the day/night cycle or something by going straight there.

im pretty good at mashing but does any one have a strat for not tiring out their hands so quickly? my hands get tired pretty quickly :'(

Practice. A lot.

well ok.... ill start now! HOUR LATER  :'(ow

Phazon came up with this strat a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLzs3q8WqWo. It might be a bit easier on your hands.

thanks:)

what are the flags that trigger the barrier cutscene?

I believe it is full master sword, full triforce, killing the darknuts, and the electric barriers inside of hyrule castle being removed.

I don't understand ledge clipping with a bomb. Can someone break it down for me & explain it, or show me a video please?

is double storage while in chest storage good for anything?

As far as I know, double storage is just having storage active while another storage effect is happening. So camera-lock with storage is double storage, chest-storage with storage is double storage, and if you have camera-lock+chest-storage+storage active all at once, I guess that would be a "triple" storage. It would just mean you can superswim while you still have a smaller hitbox from the chest-storage, but that doesn't really seem useful.

ZSR actually has a great page on ledge clipping which can be found here (http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/tww/Techniques/ledge-clipping). I think a lot of runners find pause-buffering very helpful to get the clip without fail.

Additionally, make sure that you are pressing the control stick away from the wall when you are trying to clip. As the page I mentioned above states, you want to press the control stick in that direction on the frame that Link's legs straighten out after grabbing the ledge. Does this help?

I was wondering if anyone had a good any% no tingle tuner route written out, I want to learn it but all I can find are with tuner routes. so if anyone has one that could post it that would be really awesome. thanks.

I have some questions, does anyone know how the quick perrys in orca work?, I seem to get them sometimes but I don't really know why.
The other question, where is exactly the air refill near the volcano when you superswim from DRI to Forest Haven?, I would love to get it everytime, is kinda easy to superswim to forest haven from there, I have the feeling that depends of your speed.

There's a small frame window when the first parry becomes possible that allows you to do the quick parry. Not sure how big that frame window is (pretty small though, something like 1-2 frames).

As for the air refill. That occurs due to some island haveing their own water plain around them. For most islands there is one big ocean that is always loaded, which spans the entire overworld and the the geometric complexity of which is updated as you sail about. A certain group of islands, however, have a water plain that only exists within their square (seemingly the most resource intensive islands). For these islands the game has to unload the entire default ocean and then load the specific water plain. The period between the unloading and then loading is when you are fallling through the air and when you get the air refill. Therefore, yes, it is to do with how fast you are going as the game is unable to load the island's smaller water plain fast enough to stop you falling for a bit.

As far as I know the islands which have their own water plain are:

- Outset
- Windfall
- Forsaken Fortress
- Dragon Roost
- Forest Haven
- Fire Mountain
- Ice Ring

So... I have a 1-2 frames to target Orca after the text?.

Thanks for the info about the air refill, I was thinking that but sometimes I don't fall no matter the speed... for example sometimes I pass to the right side of the tower near the Fire Mountain and don't work but sometimes I pass the tower from the left side and I get the air refill... I always start the superswim at the right of the boat, I guess I'm in limit so sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, I'm going to start aiming the superswim slighty to the right.

No, you can target him at any time after the text, as long as it's before the parry input comes up. Something important to note is the music in the fight: whatever beat the music is on when you end his text is the beat the quick parry can be performed on the next time it comes around.

Is there a reliable position for superswim to greathfish? I don't care about the time I just want to test some stuff and I need to do that superswim.

How do I get 610+ Yards on the Bird-Man Contest? I'm able to escape the Flight Control Platform and sail toward the edge of the square, but the Rito always says I'm out of bounds.

You have to make sure you are lined up with it perfectly. If you are off by a tiny bit it will say OoB.

hey all, im starting to learn this game, and im having some issues.

is there a video for the clip into birds peak rock to get the early triforce chart? when i try to do it i dont have an issue lining it up but i cant seem to land behind the gate, i always either land outside it or in the ocean.

also does anyone know how much time (approx) having a tuner would save?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJKBhJ39KNg for the Bait Bag skip

Tuner saves probably around 10 minutes between two optimized runs and that is a VERY rough estimate

Tuner saves 4-5 minutes with the newest route.

During the orca fight during the thrust phase you hold forward for the first two attacks, hold all the way back on the third, and immediately front B again (similar to the first two phases). It saves some frames rather than just mashing forward and b  ;D.

Hey guys ! I'm learning TWW and I have 2 question.

1) Have you a good spot to train the leaf pumping ?

2) Is the PAL version slower than the NTSC ?

1) Ghost ship, or the river where you ride the flower in Forbidden Woods (do it without the flower)

2) If you play on Italian its almost as fast as NTSC-J. Different route though because of version differences. If you're talking about TWWHD, then PAL (italian) is faster than the others.

Thank you for your answer.
I'm talking about TWW. Not TWWHD. If the italian version is almost as fast as NTSC-J. So why a lot of speedrunners use the english version ?

Italian is the second fastest language in Wind Waker (not just HD) afaik. The reason why US people use Spanish instead of Italian is because Italian is only available in European versions. Spanish is the 3rd fastest afaik.

anyone who can help me with ledge clipping a bit? i'm trying to skip the pirates password and i can set up the pot perfectly (at least it looks perfect to me), backflip, pull out the leaf, press a to drop the leaf, hang on to the ledge, and start pause buffering. but as soon as i get to the right frame (or what i believe to be the right frame, when link's knees straighten), i get stuck and the wall pushes me out. I am pushing my control stick in the opposite way of the way, but everytime i never get in very far.

I notice that most runners of the game re-use the leaf once they pause buffer out the right frame, but it doesn't allow me to re-use the leaf when i'm climbing on something? is there something i'm doing wrong or? (I'm on TWWHD if it makes a different)

KoRL is giving me a lot of trouble in WWSD. Particularly at Forest Haven. When I get the leaf and save warp out intending to sail to the forbidden woods, KoRL refuses to let me in. The only way I can actually get into the boat is by drowning. Why is this happening?

Did you superswim to forest haven before setting the wind south? Sometimes that can make him finicky if you don't do that.

Can someone help me understand why I can't tingle balloon to skip the scale maze in ToGs? Tingle refuses to let me use it.  :-\

You have to use it in the previous room where you get the statue, right after it's activated open the door to the scale room and you'll have it activated in that room

Great thanks a lot!

Does anyone know how to skip the cutscene in dragon roost cavern when you throw the water pot into the lava the first time? I've gotten it a couple times but can't get it consistent. I think it has something to do with the camera position and going into target mode.

The strat I use is to have the camera as low as possible (by holding C up) and also to make sure that the camera is directly behind Link, and it seems to work most of the time.

I have a question regarding the Pirate Ship passwords. I'm currently learning Glitchless on JP and am wondering if anybody has a list of all the answers to the questions in Japanese? I want to either memorize them or print them out so I can just see the answer and then input it without having to write it down or something like that. I'm tempted to make a list myself, but I'm not sure if the password is generated randomly after you enter the cutscene or if it's generated at file creation. If it is the latter then that will be a pain to make a list of. Anyways, thanks in advance!

Nevermind! I just found the list Cafde made. :D

I do have a question, in "100%" Eng, is it possible to do Zephos Skip, and would it be possible to finish the run without Tingle Tuner (i mean without using it).

hope some answers.

Yes, you can do Zephos Skip just like you would do in Any%, it doesn't prevent you from completing 100%.

And yes, using the Tingle Tuner is not required for 100%. The 100% route includes some tricks that require Tingle Tuner, but they can easily be replaced by different strats and won't affect the overall route itself.

So... Because of bad memes I now want to skip using the boat when first going to Dragon Roost isle. I've already don the hover there which, I don't ever wanna do ever again... no I need something faster :/
I remember it being possible to get storage in ways other then using the baton Soup for example, but I do not have those things available at that time again. So... With a Sail, a Telescope and potentially... the tingle tuner. I need a way to superswim from Windfall isle over to DRI. I know this is one of those request that is dumb because if it was possible to do Non-Tas, it would already be in the any% run. But I still got to ask... with no questions we would never know the answers.
As for why I want this. I want to see if we can use the " Windfall Isle Teleport" effect that is given when not using Boat to potentially save time... though I'm not that sure.
Anyways, that's all... Nothing more to say.

You're absolutely correct, if we knew a way to do it quickly we'd already be doing this in runs.
Regardless I can do my best to walk through what we know.

Currently for the original version of the game, there are 3 unique ways we know of to get storage.

• Using the wind waker. (Dry storage, forest water storage, Zelda in Ganondorf fight storage(?)
• Soup Storage
• Orca Storage

Orca storage isn't very well known and was found fairly recently. But the basic idea behind it is that you mash through the text so fast that Orca is unable to complete his talking animation. I suppose Orca's animation completing is a flag for telling the game that the cutscene has ended. So because it never completes, the game still thinks you're in a cutscene event, which is storage. (I'm not entirely sure if this is the correct reasoning, but this is what my intuition tells me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zucM-gLjDaM

So let's suppose we can use one of the actor's text in Windfall to give us storage, even then we still have a the problem of activating a useful form of camera lock.
Currently the only known way of superswimming in camera lock is from using the wind waker.
The camera lock you get from the sail does not have any useful properties for superswimming. The tingle tuner sail and pictobox are equally as useless (as far as we know).

Is it known how the board is generated for the sploosh game? ie. is it true rng for each spot when the board is made, or are there maybe a preset selection of layouts and the game chooses one each time? If the latter then-if we knew each possible layout-it should be possible to optimize our guessing based on which spots most frequently contain ships in between each possible board? like a probability density type thing. IDK if anyone's really looked into this, and I feel like it's probably just totally random in the first place anyways so its kind of moot, but I thought it might be interesting to bring up given how annoying the damn game can be in 100%.

I have looked a bit into this in the past. When you first enter the room, the game already has picked a board for you to play, even before you talk to Salvatore. After that, the board is set when you hit the closing textbox on the previous game.

As for how it chooses a game, I have no idea. I would imagine it runs an algorithm to generate the board, much less memory intensive than keeping a large array of pre-existing games. How the algorithm works, and if it can be abused, is beyond my knowledge.