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Separated from our already complete Child 1. In the case of it being slower, we can return to Hammer NG+ discussion.

Segment 1:
- Kokiri Sword
- 30 Rupees [30 Rupees]
- Fairy Ocarina
- Gate Rupees [70 Rupees]
- Weird Egg
- Zelda's Sleepy Song
- Trade for Broken Sword
- Equip Kokiri Sword
- Cucco Empty Bottle
- Impa's House HP [3.25 <3s]
- Sun's Song
- Bugs from Graveyard Entrance
- Saria's Song
- Save and Quit

Segment 2:
- Buy Deku Shield [10 Rupees]
- Goron Bracelet
- Open Cavern
- Over Cavern HP [3.5 <3s]
- Dirt GS [1 Token]
- Enter Cavern
- Save and Quit

Segment 3:
- Dodongo's Cavern 100% [4 Tokens, 4.5 <3s]
- Equip Shield
- To Dodongo's Cavern
- Save and Quit

Segment 4:
- To Death Mountain Trail
- Superslides up to the Great Fairy of Power
- To Death Mountain Crater
- Crate GS [5 Tokens]
- Catch grotto Bugs
- Cliff HP [4.75 <3s]
- Double Magic
- To Goron City
- Big Bomb Bag
- Dancing Jar HP [5 <3s]
- Boulder Room GS [6 Tokens] & Purple Rupee [80 Rupees]
- To Death Mountain Trail
- Alcove GS outside of Kakariko [7 Tokens]
- To Kakariko, Night
- Bazaar Wall GS [8 Tokens]
- Tree GS [9 Tokens]
- Brick Stack GS [10 Tokens]
- House of Skulltula GS [11 Tokens]
- Adult Wallet
- To Zora's River
- Tree GS [12 Tokens]
- Buy 2 Beans [50 Rupees]
- Platform HP [5.25 <3s]
- Cucco/Megaflip HP next to Waterfall [5.5 <3s]
- Make it night
- Jumpslash or bomb ladder for GS [13 Tokens]
- Enter Zora's Domain
- Silver Scale
- Torch HP [5.75 <3s]
- To Lake Hylia
- Drop bugs in Laboratory soil, get GS [14 Tokens]
- Scarecrow's Song
- Bomb GS behind Laboratory, jump for it [15 Tokens]
- Letter Bottle
- Fishing game HP [6 <3s]
- To Zora's River
- Catch Fish
- To Zora's Fountain
- Tree GS [16 Tokens]
- Farore's Wind
- Feed Lord Jabu Jabu the fish
- Enter Inside Lord Jabu Jabu's Belly
- Save & Quit

Segment 5:
- Inside Jabu Jabu's Belly 100% [20 Tokens, 7 <3s]
- To Lost Woods
- Catch 2 Bugs
- Clearing soil GS [21 Tokens]
- Plant a Magic Bean
- Leave and Reenter Lost Woods
- Saria's Song with Skull Kid HP [7.25 <3s]
- Bridge soil GS [22 Tokens]
- Deku Stick Upgrade [10 Rupees]
- Save and Quit

Segment 6:
- Enter Inside the Deku Tree
- Save and Quit

Segment 7:
- Inside the Deku Tree 100% [26 Tokens, 8.25 <3s]
- Save and Quit

Segment 8:
- To Lost Woods
- Slingshot Upgrade 1
- Jam Session HP [8.5 <3s]
- Catch grotto bugs
- To Goron City -> Death Mountain Trail -> Kakariko, Night
- Ladder GS [27 Tokens]
- Roof HP [8.75 <3s]
- Redead Rupee Grotto [60 Rupees]
- To Graveyard
- Dampe's Tour HP [9 <3s]
- Wall GS [28 Tokens]
- Soil GS [29 Tokens]
- To Kakariko
- Enter Bottom of the Well
- Save and Quit

Segment 9:
- Bottom of the Well 100% [32 Tokens, Yellow Rupee $$$]
-Save & Quit

Segment 10:
- To Hyrule Field
- Ocarina of Time
- To Lon Lon Ranch, Night
- Window GS [33 Tokens]
- Tree GS [34 Tokens]
- Corral GS [35 Tokens]
- Fence GS [36 Tokens]
- Crates HP [9.25 <3s]
- To Hyrule Field
- Guardhouse GS [37 Tokens]
- Chest Game HP [9.5 <3s]
- Dog HP [9.75 <3s]
- Bombchu Bowling HP [10 <3s]
- Bombchu Bowling Biggest Bomb Bag (5 Bs!)
- Slingshot Upgrade
- To Hyrule Castle
- Tree GS [38 Tokens]
- Din's Fire
- To Market -> Temple of Time
- Let Ganondorf into the Sacred Realm

Looks great Tom! Looks like you've tested it as well. Only thing I have to say is that we should get Deku Shield in Cavern

Segment 4 :o

Thanks, after Segment 4 we get a break. I didn't think anyone would oppose the save after DC :} we're getting the Hyrule GSs in trip two when we have the sword. I have thought about the shield, it's cheaper (I believe), it'd shorten the segment, and the trip back through SFM + the other side of the cavern would probably be the same as going through Kokiri.

You know, I just realized this. No one besides you, me, and stabled are going to compete for this WR. Unless someone new to the site becomes interested...

Anyhoo, it turns out I didn't save at all during the segment that I beat the game in my 100% glitchless file, so now I need to get a buttload of Skulltulas, HPs, do Adult Spirit (and get Biggest Quiver so I can do Saw NG+) and then Shadow (always done it in Medallion order :P) and beat Ganon AGAIN before I can make a NG+ with Saw. I screwed up my previous 100% file with a Bottle on B save (lost my bombs :o), so I want to make sure I've beaten the game so that it doesn't happen again. After I have that done, I'll make a file and catch up to you so I can help.

Rather than a competition I propose that we do a team run. We would include our item numbers after each segment, and if the time changes we play the sun's song before the end of the segment prior to saving, and the player for the following segment does the same. If it would work I think it would be real fun :]

I like that, but we all need to be able to record. I can as long as I have permission to use my mom's iPad.

How good are you at text and sidehopping? I have a rhythm figured out for text, but sometimes I don't always get the first few boxes. I'm totally beast at sidehopping though. ;D Superswim will be essential at Lake Hylia and it's pretty easy to do it off a megaflip/megahop. I think you should start it. If anyone knows the technique for 15 second KD, they can take DC, otherwise I'll do it since I'm so boss at hellfire skip. I'm also up for seg 4 if no one else wants it. :)

I'm doing Adult Spirit right now. Was practicing my sidehopping on Death Mountain for like a half hour... I think I play this game too much...

EDIT: Forgot to mention this in the other thread: When we do ItDT, we can do the megahop, jump onto the vines and go through the crawlspace. The webs have no collision on the side we come from so we can burn it coming back from the GS.

Ill probably join too, but i need to finish my ganonless speedrun first unless Tom does it first and i still need a way to record 40 min. Sigh :(

Wow, came together quite consistently with Hammer NG+, with 10 <3s and I think the GS count is about the same as well. Well done, Tom! I'll try to get a near-perfect Hammer run and post that time, then we can start the segment timing and compare times. We may not have to record, although I'd prefer it so I can see everyone's strengths and weaknesses (i.e. who's good/bad at HESSing where they want to go, good/bad at sidehopping, etc.) to help with deciding who does which segment. This is probably faster than Hammer...

EDIT: Hammer can't go to waste, I'll convert it to max% child or something like that. It's just such a timesink and it's fun to boot.

EDIT2: Which Forest Escape? you don't specify.

I can do all of that as long as I practice the segment. Side hopping is pretty easy, supersliding is as well as long as you practice the area to go through. I do take more of a shining to non-dungeon segments, so I'll offer for any of those that are open more often than not.

All right. I'm really good at pretty much everything (including text) except for HESS and ISG. I'm open for anything, but prefer either dungeons (except for IJJB) or long segments. My sidehopping is basically frame-perfect, and I know the game inside and out.

We should all subscribe to each other so we know when people have uploaded new segments. I'll be closing my current YouTube account soon to match my name here, I'll tell you guys when I do.

Tom, if you want me to take over routing here so you can work on TWW, I will. I need to find a list of HPs and GSs though...

So, once again we must needs debate on Adult dungeon order. I forget whether or not we planted GY bean, but we need to if that HP is gonna be convenient. I've been trying to get up there with chu boosts to no avail. If we're doing Shadow Early, that HP is a MUST.

Give Broken Sword to Biggoron after Fire, then get Eyeball Frog after Ice Cavern and TSC to Lake Hylia (that's gonna take some practice on my part... :-\). I guess we ride Epona or bombslide back to Kakariko. I think they're the same speed. DAMN this NG+ rules!

Hopefully TaylorTotFTW will join us as well. :)

You can stand on the fence and hookshot through the corner of the wall to the box for that heart piece.

ALTHOUGH, if you plan on getting ISG for shadow early, refilling your health right before is silly. Grab it after shadow early.

Norkix you can take it yes. gamestabled you're right about the trick Greenalink discovered, should have elaborated in the route I guess. There's also a jumpslash clip for Zora's Domain -> Hylia that is much easier than the TSC, CloudMax has a video.

Hell yeah. Just tell me what to do and I'll do it  ;D

Tell us your strengths and weaknesses and what kind of segments you're willing to run

Short segments that I can attempt over and over again, difficulty is not a problem as long as it's short. That would be preferable, but I would be up for anything really.

EDIT: Also, I'm not too good at things such as '100% DC' just because I don't know the GS's too well. Although I could learn, I excell more at 'Get from point A to point B and get X,Y,and Z along the way' types of things. But, like I said I'd be willing do whatever.

If you want short, you could do 3 and 6 ;D

What are your thoughts on adult dungeon order?

I'll start us off tomorrow and post segment 1 on YouTube. Should I make a specific account we can all upload to?

I would think logical adult dungeon order would be shadow, forest, ice/water, fire, then spirit... but that might just be the MST in me talking, you could possibly flip flop some for better routing. Also, has the idea of doing any of the child dungeons as adult come up? Would any be viable?

CDs as Adult would require the DoT skip that has yet to be found.

Can i join too because i can record and stuff now. im pretty good at text skipping, hess and maybe at some other stuff just give me the route. its also good practice for the any ganonless  :)
One sad thing the camera i have makes a pretty loud buzzing sound and the 3,5 male to male cables dont do shit wth the camera. i can record a test video if you want. Another pretty shitty thing is that its very very hard to find a place to record because theres noise everywhere the worst being a guy playing piano at the upper floor at random times its fucking loud >:(
E:Can somebody recommend a silent place and another thing is where do you guys record.

Go to a library. I'm sure they have some place quiet to sit down, away from everyone else.

Thats a nice idea.
(sorry ignore this text at the bottom it accidentally became a rant)


 But i thing theyre gonna get annoyed when i go there with a 3ds and a camera and where do i record. I cant hold the camera anywhere but the worst thing is there arent any libraries nearby. damn
If only only that camera would work with those cables i wouldnt have any problems.
Why is recording so hard especially with a console should i just give up finding a recorder that records good quality, records pal-60 and works with a mac its impossible to find one and if theres one its too expensive...

No speedrun hosting site would ever accept this run, because of recording quality and consistency issues. Just making a youtube archive is probably your best option. I would be happy to host such a thing. Also, I dont like just assigning segments. Anyone who wants to attempt one can do it and if they get the fastest, there's would be the one used.

If you are going to submit a segment for this, recording quality should be up to par.

Just wait for the 3DS video output mod to be available sometime before 2013.

YouTube account made. It's "OoT3D100" and the password will be PM'd to people who have posted here with interest in contributing. If you want to upload a segment, upload it on that account. We should also all subscribe to it so we know when new segs are up.

I'm going to start recording Seg 1. I'll post my time here when I'm done. If no one beats my time within, let's say, two days, I will post my video. How does that sound? Or should I just post it right away?

Done toast. I'll change it as well, in case "some troll" already got it.

3DS capture mod doesnt work on Mac which sucks im pretty good with soldering but i dont like to solder stuff to the 3ds.
Also Norkix i think you should erase that password from your post and PM it to every who are interested at the project. We dont want trolls messing around with it ::)

Done, changed it too. Should I do the 2-day wait before posting a vid?

i think we should put the videos on our own accounts and see what could be improved then possibly make a new one and put it into oot3d100 account.

I say go ahead and upload it, I think we should all just upload every segment we record, so it's in one centralized place we can all see.

I agree with toast. Upload them on our channels first, then put an improved video on the shared account. Any videos on the channel that are made obsolete by segment redos can just be deleted.

Hit a snag. I can't figure out which forest escape to use, WWT doesn't work with this NG+ item. I pm'd Tom Nook, bu if anyone knows please elaborate.

Uh, also, how exactly are we going to get a value of 50 for the saw?

To be honest I liked the idea of having gamestabled host this

Norkix you need to buy a shield, and while doing Hole of L Forest Escape hold up the shield with R and press B, you'll clear the text as usual. I'd suggest memorizing where to go though

If gamestabled hosted it, we'd need to send our videos to him, and I don't know that everyone can do that.

Also, you should edit the route so it says that. It's kinda vague.

make a video file and upload it to http://mediafire.com

You know, I agree with greenalink. If you're gonna do a project like this do it good.
But if you guys do start it may be hard to resist the temptation to participate... ;)

Taylortot get the biggest quiver and 50 arrows

I dont think everyone of us will buy the 3ds mod, I also think this more of a semi serious run after all its not going to be accepted.
E:Are we going to use a specific name for the file?

I can no longer record :( Fuck.

I named the file I WAS going to record on LINK. But, since I can no longer record, whatever the person who ends up doing segment 1 has for a name is what we all name our file.

Okay, so if we're doing Shadow Early, I think the first Adult segment should go like this:

- Exit ToT
- Exit Castle Town
- To LLR
- Race for Epona, escape over the gate
- Ride to KV
- Pocket Cucco, to Graveyard
- To ?
- Beat Dampè, death-by-door, Dampè HP (10.25 <3s), Windmill HP (10.5 <3s), Song of Storms, To KV
- GS on top of Impa's house, Sun's Song twice, wake Talon, get Cojiro, To Graveyard
- Shadow Early

Did I miss anything or could that be made faster or is it fine?

I'll post some dungeon routes later so you guys can practice them in case you want to do dungeon segs.

Lets name our character Groose.
And did you accidentally broke your moms ipad or did something else happen?
Dungeon segments are fine for me.

No, I'm not allowed to use it because I accessed this site on it and she said that her IP address was now stored on the site and she didn't want me on a forum that has people who say "fuck the police." I need to prove I'm trustworthy or get an iPod touch.

Topic: what about the adult segment? Your opinion?

Edit: I will agree to anything EXCEPT Groose. The guys a dweeb. I don't want Link to be named after a dweeb.

Thats a pretty long and annoying adult segment. Youre never gonna do it unless youre a masochist.
Hmm...need another name... How about TTNGP. Lets see you figure that out ;D

How about we just name him '100'? Also, I think it's a bit early to start planning out adult segments, when 0 child segments have been recorded yet.

Did my sig really get you denied camera access? Sorry  :-X

Let's all agree it should be called TaylorTot's Possy Team 100%

Lets just use TTNGP. Think about it for a while and you should get it.

Taylor Tot is Not a Good Person?

Nope. Ill give you a hint your names first letter.

Off topic: are you a guy or girl Taylor? I know both girl and guy taylors, sorry if you take offense

On topic: We should name it RBA Medallions is a viable option for another new route. It'll catch on

haha it's cool. I know both guy and girl taylors as well. I'm a guy.

I still think we should use a minimal number of characters, gotta save those frames  ;D

 Um... Why not just Link? Though I prefer LINK since the lowercase ruins the end of the game.

Ok, LINK is fine.

VICTORY IS MINE!

RBA is banned in 100%, and useless anyways Tom.

Does anybody else have objections to first Adult Seg? Talk to me people, let's keep this moving.

Also, my mom is guay. >:(

This is nitpicking, but wouldn't it be faster to just backwalk part of the way to KV instead of taking epona around the bridge? Other than that it looks fine.

Why don't you test it?

TTNGP was everyones first letter lol.

I though it was either that or Something Something New Game Plus. :-\

Also, at least try to put something constructive in each post. Getting tired of having to ask twice for what you guys think.

Ok sorry about that. Im not good at writing constructive stuff. :(

Okay, I figure that since we a re done routing MST, we can return to this. I believe we were still debating adult dungeon order when last we left off. Personally, I believe since this is seg'd, Shadow Early is worth the trouble. I believe I have mentioned this before.

If no one cares still, I'll just route and run this by myself and eternally hold the WR. w00t.

I see no reason not to do shadow early if it's segmented, but I'll be damned if I'm doing that segment.

We'll be damned if Kix Norkix is doing that segment.

All right I'm going to make some edits to Tom's route today. Chief among them will be ww to Nocturne of  Shadow. This will be much less frustrating than Poe Hover, but it has to be an RI wrong warp. I have no experience with wrong warp, so... I'm not gonna be able to do Deku Tree. Hopefully Tom or gamestabled will do that one. This post will be edited with the new route this afternoon.

I can do deku, Ki..I mean Norkix. Ill just have to make a file. (so whats the file name?)

Link. And thanks. I'm still looking for my 3DS, but I can record Seg 1 as soon as I find it cos my iPod works now.

And stop with the almost-calling-me-Kix, it's annoying.

Why Link? Sigh, ok norKIX. Also how can you record with an ipod? I thought only iphones and some ipads had a camera.

RI into the warp requires the real farores and magic, so youre looking at a dungeon order (probably) of DC-Jabu-Deku OR Bombs-Jabu-Deku-DC. The advantage to the second is that you could potentially do another fwww, idk where. Probably not silver gauntlets. You could do something like Owl->Kakariko which sends you to a cutscene in lon-lon that lasts about 5 seconds, then sets you up perfect to do what you gotta do there.

If you wrong warp into the cutscene, do you learn the real Nocturn of Shadow?
Like, if you get the 3 medallions afterwards and then head for Kakariko, does the cutscene play when you enter?

Well I know that when you play the CS with WW you do really get the song, but I bet if you did enter regularly after getting the first3 medallions, I would assume that the cutscene would play again. Then again, I assumed you wouldn't actually get the song with WW, and look how that turned out. :P

So does this count as duping? Do you have to watch the cutscene again and get the "real" song? 100% definitions are annoying.

someone would need to play to that point to see if the cutscene triggers again.

with my experience, i think the cutscene will play again. if you ask why i think that, i used FWWW to get both Nocturne and Silver Gauntlets in a max% as child with ng+ FW and i had to see SG's cutscene twice. first, the FWWW version that takes me to the ledge with the chest unopened and then again after i got SG (that's the original trigger). i'm guessing it will be the same with Nocturne since when you FWWW to it, you don't hit the trigger that activates it normally.

NORKIX IS BACK BITCHES!!!

I don't care if you guys are gonna help me or not, but I'm gonna start work on this again tomorrow.

Also, if anyone has Kid Icarus, I'm happy to play with you guys! ^_^

100% FTW!

Norkixs I actually wanted to start this up again as well. I'm ready to help. Only I kind of want to do single segment, but I'll still help you out with the route for segmented.

Yes, I'll help too.

Thanks guys, glad to have a team again!

I'm going to make a file today to test with. I'll also type up the Child Dungeon Routes. If you guys could give me feedback on what Tom Nook had, I can make some improvements to the child route, which could be done RTA if you wanted Single Seg. I think that will be what it comes to eventually...

Thanks a lot guys, welcome to the team!

I thought we were going to do RI warps :( all my practisings been for nothing? :'(

Not necessarily, Toast. We'll definitely be doing the RI FWWW. We're not gonna waste time getting Iron Boots  just so we can Hookshot Jump for Shadow Early. However if you could make a video, so the rest of us could practice, that would make you a Very Nice Person and I would be thankful. :)

I already have a vid Kix (did not do research) and its semi old. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTW_WH3wGNM
This might not work for some people because the time it takes me to move my finger to "items" from A happens to be pretty close. Tapping "items" is a bit difficult though. I did this on my first try just so you know.
Now im a VNP and you're thankful :D
I still prefer segmented though. I might do a seg that others have trouble, then move to my MST run. Just PM me everything and ill do it.
What is this? Majora's revenge? Did you really think someone couldn't have caught that? You disappoint me Kix :(

The hell are you... Oh. No, I just was excited and said that. It was not an MR reference at all. Glad you read my fanfics though, thanks!

Okay, I think I have found no way to make the HJ work in the route, so we will definitely be RI FWWWing. That makes this run quite dangerous for RTA, but a save before the WW will let you try again if you fuck up the first couple times. Honestly, I think Toast's vid makes it look over-complicated. I'll see if the method I thought of while watching may be easier, especially since it is simply a carefully timed RI use.

Seriously, anyone for Kid Icarus? Please?

Sorry no Kid Icarus...

Anyways, Don't we need the iron boots anyways in 100%? I say we just do the fire temple first, give the knife to Biggoron, and then head on down to ice cavern to get the iron boots, and complete the trade sequence, then head on down to Kakiriko Village to do the shadow temple. We really don't even need hovers for fire temple, except for the bk skip which doesn't even save that much time. Also we don't really need to WW to Silver Gauntlets CS because we have to go through Gerudo Fortress anyways to get the card, skulltulas, and ice arrows, and we need the skulltula in the haunted wasteland... Honestly I just don't think that we should go out of our way to get FW earlier than we need to.

Also I think that child dungeons should be done in regular order. After getting Saria's song, I think we should do the Deku Tree. I t saves us from hellfire, and really doesn't waste any time at all...

Actually, doing ItDT last allows for one trip to Deku Tree. Otherwise we would have to come back for that one GS behind the bombable wall. We already have a basic route, I'm just trying to save time later. And I meant WW to Nocturne from ItDT. We don't need to get Silver Gauntlets, they don't count in the end, so we don't have to get them, especially since there's a skip for them. Hellfire Skip isn't hard, it just takes practice. I get it like 90% of the time, and those times I messed up in my vid were so I could do the corny joke at the end. If you don't want to go fast, then don't speedrun. Stick to MST, because we're WWing to Nocturne in 100%.

Yea, right :/
PS:I don't read ur FF just so you know.
PPS:The RI warp didn't look confusing to me.

No need to be salty kixs. Just trying to bring some options up. That's what routing's all about right? :P

Anyways, yeah I forgot that we need bombs for Deku Tree. Also RI WW will be better for segmented, but I guess I'm too stuck on RTA. I'll hold off on RTA for a bit and when segmented routing slows down, I'll start bringing RTA into perspective.

So are the routes for adult link dungeons up for discussion yet? I want to discuss gold skulltula routing in Fire, Shadow, and Water sometime.

@Toast: Hmm... then how would you know Majora says something akin to that? Hmmmmm? And I didn't say confusing, I said over-complicated. You were criss-crossing your hands and stuff, there's no need for that.

@Ben: Sorry man it's my first time routing, and the current route is a rehash of one I made for Hammer NG+, so I'm kind of partial to it. And you can run this route RTA (Single Segment with Resets), you just wanna practice a lot. I still do the old Hammer route every now and then, and that's single seg. You could build off that and make a max% child route if you want.

@TWF: We are still talking about Adult dungeon order...

Now I think about it, I like Ben's idea of going to Fire first and then doing Ice Cavern and going to Shadow after that. Good idea Ben, I think we'll do that!

Unfortunately, unexpected chores came up today, and I was unable to post the dungeon routes I worked on today. They should be up a little later tonight.

So does that still mean we're WW to Nocturne CS? In a segmented run, I think we would at least try to do JJB second and then do ItDK third and try to get a RI WW to skip the long ass creation CS if we aren't WW to Nocturne CS.

Will the scarecrow's song be obtained by then to reach two of the skulltulas?

@Ben: We might... In Pedal's video, he's able to warp back to the boss room entrance with the Medallion. Is it possible to do that in ItDT? Or will it be better to warp to Desert Colossus or Nocturne... Warp to Colossus does sound good. What do you guys think? Nocturne, Colossus or CS skip?

@TWF: Ooo, forgot about those! I suppose we could bombslide to Lake Hylia after becoming adult, do the Scarecrow's Song (XAXYXAXY imo, nice and quick and easy to remember), the Savewarp back to ToT... Then get Epona (?) and head to Kakariko, where it is undecided what we will do.

I'm thinking Nocturne. I'm thinking it's faster to grab the Gerudo Token, the Ice Arrows and everything else upon heading to Spirit. The Hover Boots will also shorten every other dungeon. We might have to split shadow in two parts. It might be good to get the hookshot, go and get the scarecrow's song, then warp to shadow.

I think if we're going to RI WW it should be something short... so I suppose it should be to Nocturne. That CS is shorter than 2 Sarias, I think.

Sorry about that criss-cross thing, i can only buffer it with my left hand middle finger, thats why it blocked the screen.

As for MR, i saw a link there in your sig and was like "meh, ill take a quick look and post a troll review >:)" Then i saw a review by someone that said Majoras end line was something, something (cant remember) so i took a quick look and saw that text :o.......What were you thinking? Its so stupid i cant help but remember it every time i see you :(

Warp to nocturne...and remember to test fire temple, we dont want it to stay mysterious ;)

Sorry guys, fell asleep... I'm thinking that if the whole thing with the Fire Temple→Ice Cavern→Shadow works out, we should warp to Colossus, skip the gauntets and get the child GSs. Then, savewarp back to Kokiri Forest and complete Child 1.

Of course, I might be wasting time trying to get as many Skulltulas as possible before Adult... What do you guys think?

No I agree Norkix because in order to warp to Nocturne, we'd need to go all the way to go all the way to Kakiriko Village, and then to the Kokiri forest. However you only have to go to the Lost Woods to set your warp to WW to Gauntlets CS. Plus I forgot about the skulltulas. This will definitely be a better choice. Also can't we get some of the child spirit skulltulas as adult link?

Um... I dunno, ben. I suppose I could check later this morning.

We don't need to grab the two in child spirit until we become adult. You can reach the child Spirit area by  hookshot clipping the torch.  ;)

New Seg routes, updated to be more explanatory and streamlined.

To let you all know how I route, each bullet on this route will be an entire area's worth of actions. Each bullet will end with an exit point for that area. It makes the segments seem longer, but I'm just being detailed. GS = Gold Skulltula; HP = Heart Piece; <3 x.xx = Total Heart count

Seg 1:
-To KF
-Rupee route to Sword (20 rupees), turn right and climb Saria's house for bridge rupee (25 rupees), enter Mido's house
-two 5 rupee chests (35 rupees), exit
-5 rupees behind house (40 rupees), pond-hop rupees (45 rupees), enter-exit shop, pond-hop again (50 rupees), enter shop
-5 rupees behind counter, buy shield, buy nuts, exit (0 rupees)
-WWT escape, to Hyrule Field (5 rupees)
-To Castle Town
-To market
-Talk to Malon, to Hyrule Castle
-Leave and reenter (gets Malon in map), get Wierd Egg, head to Talon (you can jump from the bridge to the upper area without getting caught by bridge guard, its pretty lenient), to Courtyard
-Pwn guards with sidehops
-Lullaby
-To KV
-Trade Saw, equip sword, Cucco bottle, Impa house HP (3.25 <3), To Graveyard
-Bugs from rock, Sun's Song, Sun's Song HP (3.5 <3), to KV
-to DMT
-to GC
-Darunia deku sticks, staircase Deku stick, to Lost Woods
-Soil GS in Deku clearing, get more bugs from grass, to SFM
-Saria's song, S&Q

Segment 2:
-To LW, Follow-Along HP (3.75 <3), to GC
-Bracelet, Dancing Jar HP (4 <3)
-To DMT
-Open Cavern, Backflip on top for HP (4.25 <3) enter cavern, S&Q

Segment 3
DC 100%, reenter and S&Q (5.25 <3)

I'll have more details on Segment 3 later, haven't actually completed testing it yet. Tell me what you guys think of the improvements, give me feedback, toast can complain about irrelvant stuff, watever.

Wouldn't it be faster to make segment one open the path to LW? It would save around 5 minutes of backtracking.

I agree with Fox on that.
Also, any reason we have to buy the shield? We can just advance text with b to get the mini map and then get the shield in DC. This also sves us from getting a burnt shield from troll fires keese.

... Yeah. Yeah I guess it would. I think that's why Tom's original route had us go get Saria's Song in Segment 1... Damn, I'm an IDIOT! Thanks, Fox (reference intended ;))

I thought you needed the shield in order to click through the text... lol, but now i think about, the Deku nut breaks the sign, and that's what makes WWT work. Okay, I'll edit the route again.

Edit: updated the route.

Nah just advance text with b.
For rupees I suggest behind Mido's house (I think it's his house), pond hop, and behind the counter.

^ waaaaay ahead of ya, bro. ;)

I'm going to disappear for a bit (chores :(), be back in like an hour and a half.

So if we can get all of the spirit skulltulas with adult link, I guess there's really no need to WW to Silver gauntlets CS, so I suggest we just. WW to the double Saria CS. However, I'm sure there are still several others that work well. For instance,  a good one is Zora's Fountain - > JJB. You'll get text saying you learned the Sun's Song,  oob, and re spawn JJB. This is good because it'll be easy to set the warp because you'll be right there as soon as you get FW. Right now,  just about anything is better than the creation CS :P

Ben, I was right: we do need shield. Otherwise, when you use B to bring up the minimap, you pull out the Saw, cancelling the WWT. I'll edit the route AGAIN to have the 55 rupee route. Again, please tell me if I can organize them better.

Damn I forgot about the saw... I'm doubting this would work, but would the new navi method of WWT prevent you from needing a shield?

No, ben. No it won't and you forget that we get Hylian Shield on the way out of graveyard, so there is no fear of being trolled by Keese.

DC 100%
-Blow up wall, right side of room, blow up wall
-Use Baby Dodongo to blow up wall, grab Skulltula, to Lizalfos fight.
-Lizalfos fight: 4-cycle by using a normal slash then a jump attack.
-Light torches
-Press switch, to other side
-Lower Staircase, Vine GS
-Backflip trick onto Armos, Switch
-Cross bridge
-Hellfire Skip 1
-Lizalfos 2
-Hellfire Skip 2
-Get Bombs
-Lower jaw
-DO NOT GET TROLLED BY KEESE! GS behind bomb wall in back, kill KD

How much time does NG+ Saw save? You could get the Saw pretty quickly with FW to get back and forth to LW. I mean it seems obvious that it does save some time but it is really enough to want to run NG+ instead of NG? But then I had a weird idea to head for Deku right away and leave with the Sling. You could use the sling in DC I guess but you could probably also use it to CS skip ZL using the guard's bomb. That might be an OK idea but I'm not sure it is if you can't just equip sword and go past Mido normally.

Your route gets bracelet before saria's song somehow. You might want to fix that.

Could Saria's House -> Kokiri Forest work for a WW to Nocturne from Deku? I heard it crashed, which would be a shame... Having Nocturne early could save some time here and there because of the warp itself, not even counting the shadow early?

Yeah R0bd0g I've tested that Nocturne WW several times and it always crashes.
I semi agree about NG+ saw. I'm curious how much time it really does save.
What do you mean about using a guard's bomb to CS skip ZL?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFzTsM2OKE
First try BAM! The guard can throw the bomb different ways, which makes this a bit difficult.

The only problem with the ZL cutscene skip is that you would lose the saw if you started with it. And using Farore's wind might be good for each part of the trading quest that does not have a timer. It ultimately depends on how much time the saw saves.

The reason Tom and I chose NG+ Saw was because it allows more leniency with the adult routing. Instead of building around the trading quest, we can focus on a dungeon order that allows for streamlined GS and HP collection. It just makes the routing easier is all. If you guys want to use something else, there's a Hammer NG+ route that I put weeks into in the other thread. Or, we could use Farore's Wind, which I honestly don't like. Just because we can WW everywhere doesn't mean it's the best choice. Plus, that would take us back to a single segment Child 1, which may be a problem for some people because the old Hammer route was about 2.5 hours from opening to Master Sword. I just don't think FW is worth it.

Also, apparently my edit that fixed the thing with Bracelet before Saria's Song did not actually go through, so I will fix that.

Edit: Robdog seems to think you can get Saw by using Farore's Wind, and the rest of you seem to think that we keep our NG+ item after pulling Master Sword. You guys might want to check your facts... We could RI Farore's Wind as adult to warp long distances, i guess, but it won't be on B.

why don't we just stop with the ng+ bullshit and make routes for 100% and mst no ng+, I find ng+ routes retarded honestly cause it's all we have for this game, rba is banned for mst but yet we rba to get it started. and 100% ng+ come on no one is going to make a file to rba a saw for 100% unless they have a file already, but do what you want. i'd run this if it wasn't ng+, ng+ routes are just ridiculous.

...

You sound like a YouTuber. I don't know where you're from, but here on planet Earth, speedrunning is getting through the game as fast as possible no matter what. There are no rules against NG+, and its actually really fun to mess around with.

Go make your own route if you're so pissed we are trying to make a fast route. This thread is not for complaining about speedruns. It's about making them happen.

We do not catch bugs on B while the saw is on the II button.  :P

Just thought of something with routing child link. After Jabu we will be able to obtain all of the gold skulltulas in Kakariko as Child Link. Perhaps we make it so we grab the skulltula near Kakariko in Hyrule Field, play the Sun's Song, go into Kakariko and set the warp point for the Nocturne cutscene. We'll be able to head into the well via Navi Dive as well as get the Dampe Heart Piece and 11 gold skulltulas.  

*Edit: Before anyone asks about the skulltula on the ladder, we can use a bombchu from the well.

"speedrunning is getting through the game as fast as possible no matter what"
But you spend a few hours setting up the file?

Anyway any non-sword NG+ route doesn't work with the ZL CS skip since IDK how you get back past Mido after getting the sling.

You know, I guess at some point you have to walk across Hyrule Field in order to go adult, and it's not that far out of the way to detour over to the Kakariko entrance along the way, so you could just go to Kak, cast fw, and save. Then you'd clear out deku and head for adult after nocturne. It guess it just seemed a little wrong to me to go to Kakariko again without having a mask to deliver. You'd want Prelude before you starting mucking around in the masks though.

There will be a lot of trips to Kakariko so I wouldn't worry too much yet about when you're getting those skulltulas.

No BotW Chus in OoT3D unfortunately, TheWayfaringFox

NG+ Slingshot could save time, but it is an item already picked up for the definition. It couldn't be used for the DC puzzle if the ZL CS skip is used (For that you'd need a damage source, perhaps a GS if it doesn't deal too much). The ZL CS isn't quite long enough in a comparison to the text and actions of the trade game that would be skipped

don't even get me started norkix I can speedrun the game non ng+ faster then you can do it with ng+, and fox if the saw isn't on b then why are you people complaining about dieing and wwt with it, if that is what you are saying fox.

This would be after DC, so we can obtain them with bombs. ;)

@r0bd0g We could hold all of the stuff I suggested in Kakariko until later when we do the mask trading sequence. It will stop backtracking.

You wouldnt have a bullet bag or any ammo.

I personally kinda like the idea of no new game plus for this. I think something like this seems nice:

Seg "0": Cutscene, save.
Seg 1: Sword, shield, enter deku, save.
Seg 2: Slingshot, (climb up and break web?) save.
Seg 3: TSC escape, fairy ocarina, egg, talon, zelda, zl cutscene skip, save.
Seg 4: Bullet bag 40, navi dive to river, silver scale, ruto bottle, (fishing?),kz, fish, enter jabu. Save.

Although im not sure if you would want to do DC first and have bombs/magic to get farores first trip to zoras fountain. The downside to that is having the rang later so i dont know which is faster.

I don't think she appears unless you have magic, GS. I know this applies to Din's Fire, but we'd have to check.

She does not appear without magic. I must say I kind of agree with Gamestabled... However this isn't like the silly any% NG category. I mean, I don't really think NG+ will save very much time. Maybe I'm just saying this because I'm tired of being swordless for the first hour of the MST NG+, but I think NG sounds kind of nice.

This is what's going on in my head right now. I don't own this game it's just my head swims with this stuff >_>. This route probably sucks btw. :p


Segment 1
- Kokiri Sword, Equip
- Deku Shield, Equip and talk to Mido
- Might as well get Deku Sticks here?
- Enter Deku

Segment 2
- Slingshot

Segment 3
- Leave Deku
- 1/2 heart damage from Baba
- TSC escape
- Fairy Ocarina
- To Market
- Chain Rupees?
- Weird Egg
- Tree GS (take 2 hearts damage)
- Wake Talon, push boxes, navigate courtyard
- Zelda's Letter
- ZL CS Skip w/ slingshot and guard bomb
- Talk to Impa to get to Hyrule Field (this will be the closest you'll be to Kakariko, so you should go there now)
- To Kakariko
- Cucco Bottle (you'll want this to get started on Dirt Patches right away)
- To Graveyard
- Sun's Song (this is the only chance to get this before Jabu, and time of day probably isn't going to work out for everything you need before the next chance to get it)
- Back to Kak
- Tower GS
- Bazaar GS
- Show letter to guard
- To GC
- Open the door at the bottom
- Light Torches
- To LW
- Get Bugs from Grass?
- To SFM
- Saria's Song

Segment 4
- To GC via LW
- Goron Bracelet
- To DMT
- Open DC
- DMT HP
- Dirt Patch GS
- Enter DC

Segment 5
- Baby Dodongo Corridor GS (could be saved for when you come back for the scarecrow song GS as adult... how do you plan to get that, BTW?)
- Push the switch (I guess you could split the seg here)
- Staircase room vine GS (the other GS in this room, do you have a hover boots trick for it or will you have to hit the switch and do the dungeon in reverse?)
- Get Bombs
- Bomb the Eyes (I guess you could split the seg here)
- Back room GS
- Beat KD
- Heart Container
- Watch the cutscene, I guess, Goron's Ruby
- Reenter DC

Segment 6
- Up the mountain for magic
- To DMC
- Crate GS
- Climb wall HP, fall into lava
- Megaflip to Double Magic
- To GC
- Spinning Pot HP
- 30 Bomb Bag
- Rock Maze GS
- Get Bugs

Segment 7
- To ZR via Navi Dive
- To ZD
- Diving Game
- Deku Nuts
- Silver Scale (Can you skip this? Is there an adult KZ skip? If not it's like, you have to go here in Child 2 simply to move him, lol, so I'm guessing that's a bad idea?)
- Dive to LH
- Ruto's Letter
- Dirt Patch GS
- Lab wall GS
- Fire Arrow Platform GS
- Fishing HP
- Play with Scarecrow
- To ZD
- Move King Zora
- Torches HP
- Get 2 Fish (I routed this a bit weird b/c I want another fish for Forest)
- Enter Jabu

Segment 8
- Rising water room GS
- Boomerang
- 2 Basement GS

Segment 9
- I'm just gonna assume that Big Octo skip works the same way on 3DS
- Preboss room GS
- Beat Barinade
- Heart Container
- Zora's Sapphire
- Play Sun's Song
- Wall GS
- Tree GS
- Farore's Wind

Segment 10
- Know it All Bros House GS
- WWT Escape (I don't like having to do this slower escape but I'm not ready to go down ZR)
- To Lon Lon Ranch (I'm doing Lon Lon now b/c I want Epona when I go for Requiem in Adult 1)
- Malon House GS
- Tree GS
- Coral GS
- Tower GS
- Tower HP
- Play Sun's Song
- Epona's Song
- Milk Bottle
- To Kakariko
- Set FW Hyrule Field -> Kakariko Village

Segment 11
- If you can think of a place to get bugs since Jabu it'd be swell to get this dirt patch now, but it's not worth it to detour very far for them... I guess I could forgo the extra fish. Going to be a bit weird to figure out the best thing for this sort of stuff.
- To Deku

Segment 12
- Top floor GS
- Light torch to leave
- Break the web (no reasonable way to have Din's yet)
- 2 Basement GS
- Jump B1 skip
- Back room GS

Segment 13
- B1 skip
- Burn web
- 231
- Beat Gohma
- Heart Container, Kokiri's Emerald
- RI FW WW to Kakariko
- Learn "Fake" Nocturne of Shadow
- Tree GS (to pass time while waiting for Navi, I guess?)
- Construction house GS
- Navi Dive to BotW

Segment 14
- Bombchus (for a GS in LW, but maybe there's a better way than to get these Chus)
- Fake wall Key
- Coffin Key
- Centre room GS's
- Fake wall key
- Lower the water
- Hylian Shield
- Like Like GS
- Beat Dead Hand
- Rupees?
- Lens of Truth
- No way is this optimized... (Maybe a FW cast after the 2nd centre room GS and warp back after the Like Like?)

Segment 15
- Leave BotW (or Maybe a FW cast after Nocturne could save having to float out of here)
- To HF
- Tree Grotto GS
- Ocarina of Time
- Song of Time
- Guard House GS
- To Hyrule Castle
- Set FW
- Din's Fire
- Return FW
- Keaton Mask, I guess
- Open DoT
- Go adult, Light Medallion

This route has a lot of good ideas put into it. Do you think you could move the breaking the first web into segment 2 along with the gold skulltula? It's a time saver if you break the web, climb back up to 1F, leave then save warp.
 
As for KZ, I've tried to skip him by using TSC and a bomb similar to the Fire Temple BK skip because there's ice and it does not work unfortunately.  :(

Also, we can get everything in DMC with megaflips as a child, so why don't we get bugs from the grotto with 20 bombs for the GS near the warp and get the other heart piece to save time?

I think it depends there because I want to know if the Bolero, Minuet, Serenade and Prelude cutscenes would save time if they were skipped.

Ummm... setting up a file for NG+ takes like 5 minutes. But maybe that's just me because I actually kept my complete file...

Did you guys not read what I said about the saw streamlining the adult routing? It's hardly even a NG+, we have it for 15 minutes and then equip the sword. I really don't see what the big deal is. It takes five minutes to make the file.

Edit: this is turning into the original MST discussion: You guys aren't willing to put in the time to practice things like Slingshot Skip, or god forbid actually test your own routes. We're here to speedrun, not complain about how hard it is to do so. If you're going to complain, get the fuck out, I don't want you here. If you're going to post stupid shit about completely irrelevant things, get the fuck out, I don't want you here. Why don't you all grow up a little.

Right. So anyway.

I didn't head up for the top floor spider b/c the normal oot seg'd didn't do it and I figured they must have had a good reason. That said, they had dins and they didn't have to leave after. You have to remember if you backtrack from sling you have a couple rooms to go through and a ladder to knock down. It'd be something you might have to time later. If you want to leave and then sw... well I guess you could make a whole segment out of that, though you'd have to get hit by an extra guard bomb or something to get that 1/2 heart.

We could get the dirt patch GS using Bolero. Maybe a megaflip could be faster than warping but I think it's a good idea to plant a bean in here, and we don't have beans yet. It'll probably be a while before we get them. The other heart piece maybe we could get now. Like, come out of double magic, megaflip over, and then head into GC. I was thinking we might ride the bean to it, though; it'll have to be checked whether or not that's faster. As for the grotto with the bombs, we don't need that because we're getting the 30 bag right after. I just added that to the route now; I'd forgotten it was there. Hopefully our bomb counts won't be too low as a result of getting that so early.

Bolero, Minuet, and Serenade are all probably going to be skipped. I'm not sure how the damage buffering and the text speed differences, as well as the fact that we've got the hearts from all the child dungeons already, are going to affect how much time they save. Prelude CS skip... if you can use bombs in the ToT on 3DS it'll probably be done as well. You'll probably SW into the ToT so I'm kinda worried about how you'll actually damage yourself down. EDIT: I guess you could RI FW over and over to damage buffer, but I had the idea just now you could cast FW at the start of a seg, go and do something and take damage while you do it, and then fw back and do the cs skip.

I'm worried about the scarecrow song GS in DC. IDK how to route that. You might have to backtrack to DC at some point just to get it, unless there's something else you could do.

You know what? Never mind. I'm done. Do whatever you want. I don't care. Sorry for getting pissed.

Prelude CS skip works using RI restricted items... just tested it.

However after testing the staircase GS in DC, I have had no luck with any hoverboot tricks. I've come pretty close though. If I can be precise enough to do a roll and a backflip or a jumpslash in one hammer or hoverslide, I might be able to get it. For now, though, no such luck.

if you are talking about the gs where you bomb the stupid staircase to make it come down that gs can be got with a hoverslide with a hammer or bomb you'll grab the ledge have to turn around doing it the hammer way it's pretty easy did it my first try

Really O.o
I feel silly now

I'm still going on a route, kinda just for the hell of it at this point. :p

It's up until the start of Child 2. It's just a rough idea so there's a lot that could be improved and a couple of things that I'm not sure I've made the right decision on... but I don't own the game so... There's probably some fundamental flaw I've overlooked. :p

http://pastebin.com/td0qgK1n

Couple of typos >_>. That should be Twin's House GS in the Kokiri Forest seg...

I'd like to apologize to everyone. I was a snobby little brat, and I overreacted. LttpMmOot was being a little bitch and everything I was working for fell apart so I jumped ship. I'm still working on my route in my spare time though. So with robdog and I working, we will have both a NG+ and NG route for people to choose from.

At the suggestion of Nook, I'll be making an oot3d IRC channel. I will be owner, and op will be given to people who will not abuse it. You can also just go there to hang out. ^_^

it's made, #OoT3D

I've never wanted there to be that much tension with this. It's just routing, and it's better to talk to other people about it. 100% is going to take work to have a solid route, no matter what happens.
@R0bd0g This route has some great ideas going with it. I do think we have to split the shadow temple into two parts, only because of the Gold Skulltula near the boat.
Also in the Spirit Temple the Child section can be accessed, but it's from the other side, which requires a key to reach it. I think it would be good to only obtain 3 of the keys in Spirit and not skip the BK.

"I do think we have to split the shadow temple into two parts, only because of the Gold Skulltula near the boat."

On normal OoT, there's some sort of hover boots trick to get over there to reach that. Or maybe there could be some sort of hookshot jump from the ladder, though IDK if there's a line of sight to get up there and it seems kinda far-ish. :/


"Also in the Spirit Temple the Child section can be accessed, but it's from the other side"

There's a crawlspace on either side of that GS. You mean there's a clip to get past the crawl space somehow? What I don't like about getting that GS as child is Nabooru... She talk and talks and talks...

There is a trick for the boat GS, no need to split.

Oot 3d has hookshot clipping, which we can use on the left torch to get to the Child Spirit area.
What's the trick for the boat GS?
*Edit: Never mind I just got there with a hoverslide.

r0bd0g, i only had time to read the beginning of your route before starting my chores, but you get the slingshot first thing. There is an easy trick in DC that allows us to skip slingshot, allowing us to make one trip to Deku Tree with bombs later on. That's my only comment right now, but I'll look over more of it later.

Congrats Kixs on making the new IRC. I've wanted to do that for a bit but never got around to it :P

A way to get to the boat skulltula... I like the sound of that.

So I think that we shouldn't do the new mirror shield early... it just doesn't work with all of the skulltulas... but I'm sure we have all already thought of that.

Norkixs. We want the sling because we can skip the ZL CS with it using the a guard bomb. In the end I think it'll save time.

Okay, I've made a decision for the NG+ route: we will RI FWWW to Gauntlets. Now hopefully, I will get around to testing a CS skip for when we open the chest. Getting Silver Gaunts as child will allow us to get the silver rock GS in ZF immediately after Ice Cavern. And it's going to be a BITCH to get any other way.

Commencing CS skip testing...

So what would a spirit route look like... We might be able to do it all one the first visit, or maybe coming back with the longshot would be better.


Spirit:

Seg 0
- Nayru's
- Nayru's GS
- Palm tree gs?
- Enter spirit

Seg 1
- Silver block skip
- Song of Time GS
- Key (1)

Seg 2
- Requiem (if we have to come back with the longshot, then consider all this stuff to happen much later)
- Or should we get the palm tree GS now?
- HSJ to Heart Piece (I was thinking we'd have to come back with the Bean here but HSJ is probably faster than the bean even if it were here)
- Early Mirror Shield
- Go inside and cast FW
- Mirror Shield
- Do some sort of trick to get to the Silvers, hoverslide, HSJ off the chest, something. Longshot would save a bit time here even if something can be done to get across without it.
- Don't get the silvers b/c there has got to be some sort of skip to get to the silver rock GS. There are a bunch of things in ZF you can hookshot. Has anybody tried a hookshot jump underwater in 3D yet? If it's possible (you have to take off the irons to do it so maybe that'd cause a problem) and you get more height like in normal OoT, I wouldn't be surprised if you can go straight to where that GS is. If not, there's probably some way to jump or clip to OoB water or something and from there you could probably swim in the OoB water to get to it. This is seg'd so even if it's hard you gotta do what's fast.
- Use your Key (0) to get the GS (longshot might save a second). Ignore the Iron Knuckle.

Seg 3
- Return FW
- Beat the Iron Knuckle
- Use Mirror to get a key (1)
- Use key to get to climb wall room (0)
- Climb wall room. Long shot would save time here but if you can just HSJ to the top then it probably won't be much.
- Ignore the BK
- Mirror puzzle room, cast FW
- Maybe don't solve the puzzle and just somehow HSJ down to where the GS is in the room below? Or it would probably be unloaded... If solving the puzzle is a good idea, the longshot might save a good bit of time in this room as well since you could probably longshot the GS from the platform and then jump to the ZL hand. I'm not sure what route you'd need to take for the GS in that case. I should time whether or not to solve the mirror puzzle or head up adult side...
- Hand ZL Key (1)
- GS in main room
- To Lower Child side
- There are some chus in here but you probably don't need them
- GS
- Use Key (0)
- Hookshot clip
- Kill the dudes, get the GS

Seg 4
- Return FW
- Cast FW
- BK Skip
- Beat Twinrova
- Heart Container, RI FW CS Skip

Child 2
- Play requiem
- Soil GS



So, does that sound OK? Anything sound slow? Any faster ideas? Did I miss anything? Will the longshot save the time it takes to warp with requiem and walk over to the temple? I guess right now since the longshot is required to get the silvers I should just route it like that. Does getting that gs as adult sound faster to you? Actually after this is the prelude cs skip and I just got that heart container, it'll take a long time to get damaged down. Now I'm thinking maybe we should save adult spirit for after longshot.

Also I was just watching RG do Shadow and he used the longshot to a second or 2 in a number of unexpected places. Kinda needs to be timed, and it'd be a hard thing to time. I think for now I'll leave that for 1 go.

I hookshot jumped onto the wall of Zora's Fountain, but can't see a way to get to the skulltula. The highest you can get is still quite a bit below the hole in the cliff. If someone wants to do more testing with this, you need to use a chu at the peak of the jump.

Unless someone else finds a way up there, we'll need to get gauntlets.

I kinda wish I could mess around with this stuff... :/

Did you go higher when you did it underwater? Can you go higher by aiming higher using the longshot. If not... I guess this and oot's hookshot megajump are more different than I realize... Did you try getting into the OoB water and swimming over to the area below the silver rock? If we -have- to get gauntlets I guess I should consider goldies... Not sure what the route for that would be like.

Actually does the trick to skip delivering eye drops still work? Do you still have 1 second? Does the heat timer still override the delivery timer? If you still have 1 second but the heat timer doesn't work, FW could maybe be used? Actually, maybe FW would be used anyway?

I'm not sure about the timer thing, but doom jumping underwater doesn't work at all because link doesn't have that animation where he jumps to put on the boots.

Oh shit, I never thought to try swimming under the rock! I'll go do it right now!

I've been thinking about the spirit route some more... I guess I've decided what I'm gonna do unless somebody tells me something is possible that I didn't know about.

The mirror puzzle room could be better if you could do the actor glitch and just jump down to the main room. The problem is I've heard weird things about the actor glitch on 3D, so IDK if you'll be able to spawn the key chest or open the bars to get to the GS once I get to the child side. I'm thinking it's not gonna work. Too bad you can't just set FW down there and then reset to fix the problem because you'll want FW in the mirror room to BK skip... unless I guess if there's a BK skip from the main room. That'd be swell, wouldn't it? You could climb adult side instead of solving the mirror puzzle to get to the main room, and it could have been slightly faster if you didn't need another key.

Let's check whether or not the mirror shield from Colossus thing is worth it? Let's see what you'd have to do if you didn't, uh... First you'd have to climb lower adult side, which uses up your first key. You'd use your ZL key to get to lower child side. You'd find a replacement for the first key in lower child side (hopefully the gate clip that was possible on normal OoT is still working so that this key is fast). Then you'd have to climb upper child side. There's a really long and slow block push (if you wanted to do adult side, which seems faster, you'd have to get another key, and the only other key is the upper child side key with all the torches). Later, you wouldn't have to solve the mirror room puzzle since you'd already cleared out the main room, so you'd just BK skip (this doesn't cut out a FW use since you'd still be using FW to get out of lower child side). So, early mirror shield saves pushing the block in upper child side and fighting the iron knuckle that follows. You trade climbing lower adult side and getting the lower child side key for the mirror room puzzle. I think climbing lower adult side might have been about on par if not slightly faster if not for needing to pick up that extra key. My hunch is that the early mirror shield is faster but maybe it shouldn't be one of those things that's just assumed (unless you can't quickly get that key, in which case I'm going to assume).

If a way is found to skip longshot when getting to the Silver Gauntlets, I'm not sure whether to do it. I think so? But I'm not sure. I'm thinking longshot will save 4 or 5 seconds getting the GS in the main room. I can't check but I assume you can still get that GS with the hookshot by shooting at it from a little ways up the arm. Assuming you can hookshot jump up that big climb wall, the long shot probably only saves a couple seconds there. There's probably a couple more seconds in a couple places, like the other climb wall or getting the upper child side GS. All this against we're talking like 30 or 40 seconds to warp to spirit. It'll probably depend on what exactly you'd have to do to get to the silvers. I guess I'll plan for now that there's no quick way to get over.

"Oh shit, I never thought to try swimming under the rock! I'll go do it right now!"
.... I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not >_>. This is how they're doing it in normal OoT, if you didn't know.

"but doom jumping underwater doesn't work at all"
Lame. I guess because gravity is lower underwater, the hookshot jumps go like 3x (or more?) as high. It's too bad it doesn't work.

The heat timer still overrides the spoiler timer. I know this I warped to DMC during Ganon's escape with FW. That timer is the same timer as the spoiler one because it softlocks with the item is spoiled message if it runs out anywhere else, and I canceled it by dying with the heat timer going. As for obtaining the sword, I'm not sure.
As for obtaining the Mirror Shield it ultimately skips obtaining a fourth key which saves more time than skipping the BK. We can skip the BK from the main room if the platform is lowered from above, which I'm not sure about doing yet. Also, we can hookshot jump into the mirror puzzle room where everything is unloaded except for the mirrors. These options could be better if the actor glitch does not work. If the actor glitch does work, we'll have to get back to the top room somehow.

I tried for an hour last  night and two this morning. Not once could I get into the hole, which lingered so tantalizingly on the edge of the visible map. The real problem is that the camera doesn't follow Link. if there was a way to get the camera back behind Link, maybe it would be possible. But for now, it is... IMPOSSIBRU! ( sorry >_<)

It's quite possible Grezzo took out the water underneath the land. If that is the case, then we'll never be able to reach it. I'm going to test this a few more times with a new idea, but for now, consider the fact that this is not possible.

And no r0bd0g, I don't know how to do this in oot64. I'm learning MST, not 100% RTA.

EDIT: I'm almost there! It turns out there is a place you can poke Link back in bounds that recenters the camera, allowing you to see the OoB water again. Unfortunately, it does not go under the island. It just might be possible to get to the path. Cross your fingers, guys!

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7DTgThFkUw&feature=plcp

EDIT 2: I got it! You js AS LATE AS POSSIBLE and ou'll get right in there! DEATH TO GAUNTLETS!

Damn this is so precise. I have a proof pic though :)

Nice. This trick is like, the bane of 100% runners, lol.

Do you think planting the bean in Zora's River save any time at all? You have to go through the text to buy it, then plant it... Doesn't take that long I guess, but on 3D you could probably just HSJ using the fence to get up to where the GS is. A quick guesstimate says it'd save only a couple seconds to plant the bean, assuming you can just HSJ up there, which I think isn't enough time saved, even if you can accommodate it with a good big poe route. I'd have to think about this more*, but I think that I could put Ice Cavern and Lake Hylia into Adult 1 so I can get the Gold Scale. This will save having to figure out some sort of work-around for the HP grotto in Hyrule Field.

* EDIT: I thought about it some more. I need the bean planted in DMC too, since I want the prescription before I go to ZD. I looked into what the big poe route might be and I think it's going to work out. It's still really close, like a couple seconds either way... I'll stick with my old plan and do Ice in Adult 2, for now.

On that note, does the unfreeze king zora glitch still work?

KZ glitch doesnt work, already two confirmers. Fire temple BK skip like trick is very, very close but still needs a small boost. Im sure this might be possible with a bit of patience and planning.
I had another KZ skip theory. If we could somehow load the upper area from the lower one we could get up via the waterfall water. Sadly......etc.

Weird that they would fix something that we didn't know existed.... Could it have been a positioning thing, like, it just doesn't work out like it used to? Try using a trade item... Like, have the camera sideways and go most of the way up the stairs, face down the stairs, and pull the trade item.

Also I'd really like somebody to weigh in on whether or not they think that if I wrong warp to get nocturne I should have to get nocturne legit as well.... It could easily be considered duping.

I have my makeshift route a couple segments into adult 2 now, I just have a couple questions. I'm getting pretty close to having a first pass of the route done; I just have to route a couple of dungeons that I'm not really familiar with how they're done on 3DS.

Anyway, I just finished getting the BGS and now I have to pick a dungeon to do. So..., would you rather have the hammer in water or the longshot in fire? I wish I knew more about this game but it's hard to find information, like, what works what doesn't what new time-savers there are, etc.

I'm thinking maybe a Goron Ruby CS skip might save a bit of time. Since I'm walking all the way to Kak just to set FW for the Nocturne warp, I was thinking maybe I could just continue on up to DC and do the Nocturne warp from there. To skip the Emerald CS I'd have to throw in an extra trek from the fairy fountain into Jabu to set FW (that seemed like the next best option). Honestly that doesn't sound that great but... in order to do the WW from Deku I have to escape again, and since I have ZL, apparently I have to do WWT? So how much longer is WWT over just walking out normally? I could be enough to make the difference.

If you think it might actually save time, it'd be nice if that WW were tested if it hasn't been already. Actually, Zora Fountain->Fairy Fountain apparently warps into the Din's Fire CS. There's 35 or so second cutscene that might be faster than walking to whatever other place you could go?

I'm trying to think in my head how I could possibly CS skip Fire. I'm not sure if it's gonna work out or not. We'll see.

I have already routed water, it is very similar to N64 except we get the boss key and there are two hookshot clips to reach keys. Should we RI warp water so we can skip the cutscene? That's my question. As for Fire, we would probably need to find a suitable area to WW with it. I think it would need testing. I do want to know if we can perform the clip with BGS at the entrance to Fire anyway, because it would save a lot of time.

Yes we should RI CS Skip water. It saves time on normal oot and there they have to damage down and then bk skip again to get the heart. Just use the scarecrow song/longshot to reach fire arrows (or maybe there's a HSJ to save a couple seconds, what do I know).

That's kinda what I figured it would be like for water. Fire's going to have a few differences, of course. The problem with the CS skip is that it ties up our FW when we'd rather be using it in the dungeon. I haven't routed it out yet so I'm not sure where the FW uses would be so IDK how much time that's gonna lose. Besides that we have to make a trip somewhere to set FW and then probably watch a cutscene anyway, though hopefully a much shorter one. I'll work it out later.

Anyway, as for which cutscene to watch for Deku if I were to CS skip DC, I tested using ZF->Fairy and it just takes you to the ZF Fairy. It wouldn't let me play ZL unless I left and reentered, so there's nothing with that. The only thing is the cutscene was only like 35 seconds, so it's possible that that's faster than walking to Jabu and watching a piece of the sun's song CS and then falling OoB. I think whether or not this is done depends on how long it takes to WWT escape. It is what, like 50 seconds from the time you leave Link's house until you escape? And there's no TSC escape after you get ZL? If this is about right... and the Goron Ruby CS is well over a minute long then... I think I should do the CS skip? I'm gonna put it in the route, I guess. Somebody should test if it works on 3DS at some point. I should have check if it refilled my magic... I'd be sooo good if I could warp to Lon Lon but I can't really see a way to do it.

So... where does hammer save time water? I'm not sure there's any place that longshot saves time in fire except maybe a second or two at that first climb wall. So should I head to fire next?

If you have hoverboots and the hammer in water temple you can save probably about a minute because you don't have to do another silly tecktite dive. I suppose bombs would work, they'd just be more difficult to use.

Since this is segmented, unless it's TAS-only hard, it's not the difficulty that matters. So really the hammer is saving like 2 seconds over bombs? How many such 2-second time savers are there? Because I can think of a couple with the longshot in Fire. I mean there are a few GS's you can pick up a bit faster, at least. Those spinning tile rooms...

Besides all that I think I'd rather Iron Boots dive than Spell Dive.

Ah that's right, we should have the iron boots by then. However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of lowering the water.

Don't you mean raising?

I think Fire and Water are interchangeable. The items in these temples will not change too much of the route or lose time. It would vary from person to person.

NG+ Route Child 1 WIP (5 segments completely tested) (http://pastebin.com/XMCb1LpV)

My idea for seg 6 is to go back down Zora's River (there's a Skulltula near the ledge with the ladder, right? We'd get that), and go to KV. We'd RI Farore's Wind (for Nocturne FWWW in Deku) and save in BotW.

Seg 7 is BotW, then we S&Q after Lens.

Seg 8, we get Dampé HP and the GS on the wall, then the tower GS in KV and sidehop to roof HP, then S&Q.

Seg 9 is Deku Tree and WW to Nocturne, after which we S&Q. We could put BotW here instead as well, if you guys think that would work better.

Seg 10 is Lon Lon Ranch, Ocarina, Market, Din's Fire, and Master Sword.

What do you think?

Why are we adding so much for child one? I would like to add cutscene skips for Minuet, Bolero, Serenade and Prelude. We can move some stuff for child two.  ;)

Um... we can be thorough on Child 1 and still use cs skips, Fox... And why not be this thorough? I guess the boulder room and Deku grove GSs can be obtained later, but I really don't understand how flip-flopping through time is faster. This route gets a ton of things in a very well laid out path. Imo, the only reason regular OoT has so many Child sections is because they have a DoT skip that isn't ridiculous. When we go back in time for Child 2, I want to have warp songs so we can do the mask quest easily, polish off the remaining soil GSs quickly, and generally reduce overworld travel. Besides, I cut out quite a few things from Nook's original Seg'd route and saved them for Child 2, where they fit in along the mask quest.

I suppose things we can drop for now are Deku Grove GS, Boulder Room GS, Dampé HP, Graveyard wall GS, Tower GS, and Roof HP. These drops also streamline the route a bit, so I think they're good to save for later.

I like the sound of that Kix (said it right that time) . Do you think you could start trying to pump this out on a pastabin to make it more accessible and easy to shift through? I know that's a lot to ask considering how massive the route is, but I think it would be highly appreciated by all here. Of course nothing is set in stone yet, and for some things I'm sure that it doesn't really matter when we get them really. So it wouldn't have to be perfect but it would be a nice thing to have ;)

Sure Ben, I'll get right on that. I'll have a complete Child 1 pastebin in less than an hour. :)

You're the man Kix ;)
Thanks a bundle!

Sorry ben, it'll have to wait until tomorrow. The only computer available to me is an old shitty one that for some reason can't connect to the Internet. Also, I didn't sign into pastebin.com when I posted the WIP one, so I can't edit that on my 3DS. For now, just use the WIP pastebin that is already linked. I'll have a complete, edit enabled pastebin of the route tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.

However, this will also allow me to complete the testing tonight. Wish me luck on the FWWW, I really need it right now.

CHILD 1 (http://pastebin.com/JFWsC07G) IS FINISHED!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Please give me some feedback on anything that should be switched around to make this faster. Please, only constructive criticism. If you don't like NG+ just ignore this post, because I don't care about what you have to say.

I'll start working on Adult 1 tomorrow (I have a four day weekend ;D)

Also, when are you guys on #OoT3D? Every time I go on, there is no one there. Did CloudMax talk you guys out of using it? Or are all of you in Europe and are sleeping when I'm able to get on the IRC?

"However, we will still save time if we hoverboost to the third floor door instead of [raising] the water."

In normal OoT this was done with a bomb. If it's impossible to do that without the hammer, then I guess we do have to get the hammer first, but... There's this one GS where it's like, if you don't have the longshot... ugh. You can't just walk forward and use the hookshot -- the tiles will get in your way. You can't just run up and grab the GS either because there's the Like Like right there and he WILL eat you unless you do something about him. If you don't lose 10 seconds I'd be surprised.

I think it's about time I checked if you skip the door of time opening CS by having the light arrow cutscene ready. I'm not sure if it'd save time if it did, but the CS is about 17 seconds so if I can get somewhere without losing 17 seconds, I might try it. It might be possible if I set at Colossus->Fairy and did Water and Spirit first... I'd need to time it to be sure and it doesn't matter if you can't use a bomb to do that trick in the water temple. But I mean, IDK if it works yet and if it doesn't I'm not sure it'd save time.

I routed the Fire Temple. It's weird. I do the CS skip and don't do the BK skip. Yeah IDK.

This can be done with a bomb. I'm personally am better at using a bomb rather than the hammer, honestly. I'm still not sure about which dungeon to do first.

I was hoping that the light arrow cutscene would play instead of the one I warped into, but it didn't. Oh well. And then when I dropped MS it played LACS instead of making me child. >_>

I'm gonna route water (this will probably amount to taking a look around on an old file and then copying most of the normal OoT route...) later tonight probably and then I'll make a decision.

Wow, what am I? Chopped liver?

Uh, just some quick thoughts.

"Use Graveyard Cucco for Impa HP"
How long does that take on 3DS? Is there some really quick 3DS-exclusive way? I plan on jumping down to this after I get the GS on Impa's House as adult. In general I feel the route often has similar problems -- stuff that you -could- get now, but it'd be faster to get it later. I'll give some more examples...

"Hylian Shield"
There's one of these in a chest in BoTW, right next to a GS you have to get. Since it's seg'd, you don't need to worry about getting your shield burned in DC -- you'll just try again if that happens.

"Follow-Along HP"
It'd be slightly faster to get this the same time you get the bullet bag upgrade. Also, you have to climb the ladder back out, which maybe that could be OK, but I'd rather end a seg there or Sun's Song warp out of there and go do something else. You have to make 2 more trips to LW to go to the forest stage, so there'll be a segment in LW where you have nothing to do after.

In segment 4, I feel like pretty much everything between the boulder maze gs and entering ZD should be done later. You need to make several more trips to Kak with masks, you don't have the songs for the frogs yet, the HP's would be faster if you had the boomerang...

Why do you need to kill the tentacles?

IDK, I guess I shouldn't really talk when I don't have this game and can't test my routes at all ha ha.

No man, I appreciate your input. I guess I was upset because I've worked so hard on this and I got blown off. Sorry for being a snob.

Impa HP: You can jump from the rafters of what will become the Archery house and reach the ledge. I suppose it would save time to get that after Impa Roof GS.

Hylian Shield: I have us get it there so anyone new running it RTA doesn't have to worry about troll Keese. Again, you are right about BotW.

Follow-Along HP: I meant to take this out along with a few other things. We'd probably get it while cleaning up Lost Woods in Child 2.

Boulder room GS is another thing I meant to take out. I don't know what you mean by saving the HPs for after we have Boomerang, they are right there and take only a few seconds to get. Same with the GS.

We kill the tentacles so we can get the GSs in B1. I wasn't aware you could get them otherwise?

Once again, sorry for being a snob. I will edit the route with your suggestions.

EDIT: It appears there were some huge miscalculations in the collection checkers. These have been fixed, and all of r0bd0g's suggestions have been implemented.

Lol, if you implement every suggestion I could have, the routes will end up almost the same. :p. See if you can find other things that you do extra.

I agree with when you're getting the boulder maze GS, though. My route does it too. The reason is that we have no other reason to come to GC again as child. I meant that the trip from GC though DMT, Kak, and ZR seemed redundant since you need to go past everything you get along that path again later. You won't have beans or adult's wallet as early but I think you can make due without them. I will have to see about the rupee route though because I suspect I will have a shortage.

You should be able to get those GS's in Jabu by falling down that first hole when coming back from the boomerang. You could watch seg 17 (iirc?) of the normal OoT segs to see what's done there.


Routing the water temple, I'm not sure what extra key I should get. Key in the spinning water room or the key off the main room you normally have to push a block around and hit an eye switch to get. The thing about the latter is that you have to spend a whole segment on it. There are two routes to get to it; I think coming in from the entrance on the top floor is probably slightly faster? At the least it's easier. The former is a really tricky place to get in an out of, especially if you try to a hookshot clip with all those shellblades there. It'll be faster on 3D what where you don't have to pause to switch boots a few times to get in. I think I'm leaning towards spending a whole segment on getting a single key. :/ I'm also not seeing the time saved for the hammer. I think I will do water first.

Can you get that GS in the waterfall room with just the hookshot? They use ISG on normal OoT. I think that means that it should technically be possible (?), but IDK for sure and the positioning might be slightly different on 3D.

I guess the last question I have to ask is if there's a clip to double defense.

I don't know how to get on it honestly. And yeah, Pedal lives in Finland.

We'll get the key in the spinning water room with a hookshot clip then warp away with FW potentially. The GS in the Waterfall room is still obtainable with the hookshot.

Lol, I don't think so. You do all the flip-flopping through time in your route, which I don't really understand. I'm seeing a maximum of three parts for both Child and Adult.

You need a tester r0bd0g. Not just for tricks, but also to test what time of day it is when you get to each area, because that could really effect your GS collection.

@Fox, once you are on the IRC (there's a link on the front page), type "/join #oot3d" That will get you there.

I logged into oot3d once. There was nobody there. :p

Did you time out the difference between that key and the one off the main room? I feel like the spinning water room is faster in RTA for sure, but since the resets aren't timed in seg'd, it might be better to grab the key off the main room by a couple seconds. I guess I'll take your word for it. Also, I don't plan on using FW at all in water temple. Everything is so close to the entrance that you'd lose time casting. My plan right now is to cast FW after serenade and end up there after RI FW CS skip to save the time you'd normally spend to leave water.

I don't flip time more than necessary. ... Time of day is a bit of a problem. I'm hoping that for the most part my time of day is probably correct but there are some things I feel like could be optimized better if I could rely a bit more on the normal passage of time.

I finished my first pass of the route. I gotta count the GS's and HP's and route out the rupees and magic. I'm not gonna route explosives or equips b/c that's a little bit much for me to try an attempt without actually owning the game, lol. Coincidentally, I have 68 segments, which is the same number of segments as the current 100% route for normal OoT. Maybe that'll change as I look it over, though.

okay, ben and I talked about the Adult routing in the IRC, and this is a rough outline of what we came up with.

Adult 1

Seg 10
play nocturne, enter shadow temple, get hovers, S&Q

Seg 11
leave, goron tunic, bolero cs skip, prescription, enter ice cavern, S&Q

Seg 12
Ice Cavern 100%, S&Q

Seg 13
Get Zora Tunic, get eyeball frog, tsc to lake hylia, scarecrow's song, get eyedrops, bombslides to biggoron, get claim check, get Biggoron Sword, enter fire, S&Q

Seg 14
Fire 100%, cs skip if there is one, reenter fire, S&Q

Seg 15
DC part 2, to LW via GC shortcut, minuet cs skip, play minuet, enter forest temple, S&Q

Seg 16
Forest 100%

That's as far as we got. Thoughts?

Also, purely by accident, I named my most recent test file Lunk. ;D

I kind of have an idea. After getting the prescription we could go to the lost woods through GC and then CS skip minuet. After that we could go to ZR via the shortcut in LW (no Navi dive because we'll have silver scale :D )
After fire 100% we could just play the warp song to the forest temple

That's actually a really good idea, ben! We'll do that.

I thought you went to bed?

When i try to join #oot3d theres no one there, not even the leaderboards link etc. However by PMing myself #OoT3d i can join it the right way...weird.

Make sure that you make irc.speeddemosarchive.com the server.

Coupla things.

I think the closest you'll be to the Ice Cavern is when you get the GS's in ZR. And I think when traveling to ZR would be a great time to grab some Poes, so probably you'll want to have Epona first. And maybe ZR isn't the fastest place you could go after getting Epona...

I thought you'd want to do Forest before Fire because you can save a bit of time by hitting this eye switch and then HSJ off the map chest.

Hopefully you don't have to deliver the eye drops and you can just warp like they do on normal OoT.

I'm hoping you can get the red rock GS's somehow without the hammer like the do on normal OoT. That should probably checked. And if it is, DC part 2 would be better after the BGS. I really want a way to get that GS in DC w/o the scarecrow. Maybe hookshot clip or something? I mean, you can push the armos but that's really really slow.


Also I realized you could probably longshot clip to the ladder to get the GS in ZF. It'd be slower than the OoB swimming thing but it would still probably have been better than getting the Silvers. In OoT you have to weird shot so you're a bit lower, so maybe it could be reached with the hookshot but I highly doubt it.

I agree about beating forest before fire because of the DJ. I think we should get bolero, get the prescription, GC -> LW, Minuet skip, forest, LW -> ZR, get skulltulas, Ice Cavern... What do you think?

I think as for big poes, we'll have time to get some after getting epona and as we go from wherever to Gerudo Valley. Not sure when else though.

I also don't think getting the red rock GS's without hammer is necessary since we go form DMC to DC anyways so they're not out of the way.

Gah I just realized how many more hearts you're going to have if you leave the Serenade CS skip until Adult 2. If somebody can tell me for sure that, yeah, you can HSJ using the fence up to the GS in lower ZR, then I'll move it. Tomorrow I gotta give the route one more look over and then I'll post it.

Somebody? Anybody? :(
This is like, the last decision I need to make...

Here's a seg'd NG route for the whole game. There's a lot of things that need to be tested, a lot of things that need to be timed, and a lot of things that sound really iffy. RI'ing bombs so you can RI FW to damage buffer? What? What else was I supposed to do. :/

http://pastebin.com/uiYHw4dK

If you have questions about any decisions I've made be sure to ask -- maybe whatever-it-was was a mistake on my part? Lemme know if there are tricks I don't know about to save time or if you have ideas for improvements. I'm not going to route explosives or equips. That's kinda too deep to go when you don't even own the game, lol. Maybe some day somebody should do a test run of the route and make sure it's working properly and also maybe to find time of day optimizations. Time of day is hard >_>.

There's a lot to go over with this route, so I'll update this reply regularly.
 
First of all, I'm pretty sure that the RI FW buffer does not work. There is literally no pause lag unless you press the home button on the 3ds. I like how you routed the Spirit Temple, I think that it is really interesting.

Oh yeah, with a bottled fish you can take two hits of damage from a bomb. Instead of six bombs for Prelude, it could be 4 bombs used.

As for the thing with the Net, he still regrabs it. It might be possible, but I don't have a file where I can test this.

Then I guess it'll be 6 RI'd bombs. I mean I really don't know what else to do with that. It was all I could do to even get down the 3 hearts... Actually you could probably RI FW to buffer once per bomb at least? Maybe if you place all three bombs in row and then do it back to back to back you could still do it kinda fast.

I mention it on the route but there's a trick that could make the Spirit route a little better. If you can get to the key in the lower child side GS room the same way they do on normal OoT, what you'll do instead is cast FW in the Anubis room, and then head down to the main room that way instead of solving the mirror puzzle. After getting that key I mentioned, you'd FW back, and BK skip. You'd have to cast FW an extra time to CS skip, which is why it wouldn't save quite as much time as you might think at first glance. Maybe 15 seconds. Oh and that route should say that you get the mirror shield after leaving again, since you have to get close to the entrance to get the chest to drop. I didn't forget that, I messed up when I typed it up somehow.

One thing that kinda sucks with the route is that your free bomb refills, the 30 and 40 bags, are at terrible times. 30 is soon after bombs and 40 is very near the end. Depending on how many drops you need, it might be reasonable to give up a time-saver (give up the time saved from one of the FW's back to the poe collector, say) and head for child 2 earlier. But I'm not routing the explosives.

Updated the NG+ route. (http://pastebin.com/JFWsC07G)

Before ben says anything, I did a little mental timing and figured that it probably isn't worth going to Forest after Biggoron Sword just to do a hookshot jump that saves... what, 5 seconds? The time saved by using Biggorons Sword on PG should be more than the time saved by the hookshot jump. So yeah, we go to Fire, then use the shortcut in GC to get to the Lost Woods and then boom. Minuet cs skip and into Forest.

Also, I missed the Tree GS while we were at LLR as child, so that was added.

Just discovered that you can reach the Goron City shop to obtain the Goron Tunic. You have to Backward HSJ/IDJ off of either torch in Darunia's room (You have to be on the side closest to the wall or you will not clip) and land in the main room while it's unloaded.

Given that we need to talk to the Goron in order to get back there, this is kind of irrelevant as we will already have gotten the Goron Tunic. A nice find for the miscellanious Hookshot Jumps though ^_^ Good job Fox

Eh what. You can get back there without talking to him with just a bomb. Doing this skips talking to him altogether.  :P

Get back there with a bomb? You mean going around through DMC with a megaflip? And if is some kind of clip, I think that with the text boxes going as fast as they do, just talking to him would be faster than setting up the clip and clipping and setting up a precise Hookshot Jump and getting it to work... Plus, iirc, in my route, we don't have any boots when getting Goron Tunic, so this is useless for me anyways. Might be useful in r0bd0gs route though.

You mean you can get back to there from the goron city side? If it's from the DMC side, you'd have to climb the mountain again which might be faster but sounds lame to me. I probably won't have the rupees for it the first time through, so IDK what to do about that. Worst case I make a whole segment out of going and getting it.

I was reading over the route norbix posted and though I think it has quite a few issues still..., it does have some things in it that made me think twice about a couple of decisions I'd made. One was doing shadow in one go. I realized when he didn't use hookshot to get into shadow that in a way I already do two trips because I have to at least get the hookshot before I can complete it. That's only like 15 seconds and not the 40 or so it takes to warp and walk into shadow... But that means the longshot, ice arrows, and bgs need to save less time than they did before. Only 25 seconds, besides the time it takes to megaflip... I couldn't really begin to guess whether or not they do. Somebody should just take a guess for me and I'll change the route to that. Just that one GS in the boat room is probably 10 seconds or more... I'm wondering if I did route it like that, how I could take enough damage for the bolero cs skip that follows. Dead Hand seems like it would damage you way too slowly. And I guess I could get the windmill HP after learning nocturne.

Also I think I could route it to have BGS in forest. I can't really think of a reason not to do that. I will not have to FW to get back to Lost Woods, but I will have to cast again at some point in order to CS skip. Maybe that's an extra FW cast... or maybe not. Maybe I could find some point where I have FW cast to get back to somewhere and I just do Forest then. I need the bow for a lot of things that so I might not be able to do that. I'm not sure the BGS will save the 15 or more seconds it'd take to cast FW an extra time. This makes me think at the least I could skip the FW cast coming out of the lost woods. It should be faster to get lost than to use that FW cast coming in from GC, and then I could do forest after the next FW cast.

I need to double-check if the silver gauntlets warp is a good idea. If it were, I wouldn't have to get requiem in adult 1 anymore so IDK what it would do to the route.

Okay. I just wanted to say that it is possible.

After looking over r0bd0g's route a little (I'm getting pretty sleepy), I realized I've made some very obvious routing mistakes, resulting from the fact that I was routing ahead of my testing (RI FWWW was a bitch, lol). I'm going to fix a few of these tomorrow.

r0bd0g, I have to say that what I read was routed quite well considering that you don't own the game. I always forget to use FW in the overworld since I'm used to not using FW in the overworld, so I'll try to factor in some FW points as well. I will say that I believe the Fire Arrow Pillar GS would be better saved for a later Child part in which you have Serenade.

Can you point out some of the things you disagree with in my route? Anything I've missed along the way? On an average playthrough I get 80-85 GSs, so I need to know where I can cut out backtracking. Some things I have a reason for not getting, however. But please, anything that needs fine-tuning would help greatly. :)

So I take it that's a no for getting to dmc from goron city side without talking to the guy. The problem is the need for magic as child. If I didn't have to get magic until adult then there's be no issue. I'll do some timing and see if I think it's worth it to skip talking to the guy.

As for the fire arrow platform, well, warping takes 20 seconds, and then you still have to get over to the platform. There's a glitch on normal OoT called Superswim. If this glitch still exists on 3D then I think there's no way that warping is faster. If it's not, well, I'll look into it, but there's a good chance you're right. Swimming is slow as molasses and it'd be nice if I didn't have to swim back from that platform. When I was planning the route I was picturing the superswims in my head without really even thinking about if you could do them.

I know that you can do mini superswims with megaflips, but I don't know if the actual one is possible.

Superswims do still work, but doing one from the fishing pond only gets you about 1/3 of the way to the Fire Arrow Islet. I don't know about the time of day in your route, but in mine, it would still be about noon when you got there.

*facepalm*

Hey Norkix, there's this cool thing called the Sun's Song and since time resets after doing Jabu, you could totally get the FAI GS in Child 1.

Well duh! *facepalmfacepalmfacepalm*

No idea what my time of day is. I was thinking you'd just use Sun's if you had to. We're at LH so we might as well clear it out, was my thought. The last time ToD was set was after the Sun's Song CS. I doubt that it will become day before LH, but I have doubts that you'll be able to get over to the fire arrows platform before morning.

Hey R0b, I have a couple of things that I noted from your route. These are just quick notes I took. I'm not quite done with them yet though.

20. You can peahat HESS. Not sure if it is faster.
46. no owl skip
60. What is switch trick?
127. Is Zelda's letter trick
180. You have to push the block I think
250. I believe spike trap jump still works
263. I'm gonna say that the clip is faster
287. Or... I know this wastes a little time, but we could possibly just put on the tunic if all else fails :P
308. There is a song of time block clip that might be faster. Not sure though

Switch trick is when you backflip onto a pressure-sensitive (blue) switch and pull out an item like Zelda's Letter or Magic Beans just before you land. This causes the cutscene from pulling out the item to interrupt the cutscene of the switch being depressed, but the unlocking cutscene still plays. If the door is close enough, you can run to it and get through before the game realizes that the switch is not depressed. It's most notable use is in IJJB, in which it is used to skip Big Octo. It's similar to what you do for FWWW, except with a cutscene item and you backflip onto a switch.

20 - It's not. Doing a HESS won't make the Cucco hatch any faster. I even go and waste a bit of daylight by getting all the chain rupees.
46 - You mean you can't skip the owl coming from SFM? It was possible on normal OoT. You have to get the slow walk into the loading zone so that you don't walk into the trigger right away, I think? Normally they would do a ground jump but IDK why the alternating sword/stick think wouldn't work? It doesn't matter b/c this segment is too hard.
60 - In the baby dodongo corridor there's a switch you push an armos onto. I tried it on normal OoT and I was able to skip having to push that armos, but who knows what's different and what isn't.
127. OK.
180. It's tight on normal OoT, especially as child? You're sure you can't make it? If the bars just barely close, maybe if you backflipped out IDK.
250. OK.
263. You're remembering that if you clip you have to wait for the wall to close in before you can leave the room? I doubt you could reorder the rooms to end the seg here or FW out or something.
287. But then you have to play through the rest of the game with that ugly tunic on. :p You know, if I decide to split shadow, I have no idea how to go about taking damage for this.
308. The normal OoT 100% route says to play the song of time. Maybe it was something they were debating or maybe they timed it or maybe the route is in error, IDK. I went with it, anyway.

Thanks for the input!

I was thinking about a route where you'd wait until you have BGS to do forest and realized why that couldn't work. I need to have the bow before broken sword to get started on the Big Poes. Still no idea whether or not to split shadow. I guess I'll split it if anybody can think of a good way to take damage between going adult and the bolero cs skip. The shadow goop is probably slow too but everything else I think of sounds worse.

Today I realized that I somehow am getting the BGS before the broken sword, lol. Oops. I'll untangle that mess but it'll need a new big poe route. I'm not sure I'll be able to find a good route that has 2 free bottles for ice cavern. I want to know if I'm safe to bottle-dupe my deku nuts in this game? I know exactly where I'll get a drop to get my nuts back in case they're needed for Volvagia.

You can bottle dupe your deku nuts with the backflip method as long as there's zero of them. You can also use a bottled fish and bombchus against Volvagia if you feel like it.

whats this about Volvagia?

I'm hoping to shield swipe dupe the nuts, actually? It'd be too slow to empty them out. Anyway what I needed to know is if you can get nuts back in your inventory by picking up a drop like you can in normal OoT. If I dupe over the nuts and can't get them back, I can't get 100%.

You can get the deku nuts back, I just tested it.

Basically there are 2 Volvagia's: the one you hit on the head and the one that flies around. While either of these 2 Volvagia's are in the lava holes, you can put bombs on top of the holes they went into to damage them. You can also use chus so a fish can be used to blow up the chus.

WHY WAS I NOT TOLD OF THIS BEFORE

It's pretty new, even on console I kinda just found out about it from R0b. I knew there was a strategy with bombs but I sidn't know how it worked :P

http://pastebin.com/AANNr5Xq

Unless I made another really dumb mistake, then I probably won't be posting any more routes. (There are small mistakes for sure -- I see already where I didn't count the rupees you get on the first Poe drop-off.)

Changes:
- Fixed a dumb mistake with supposedly doing the adult trade quest out of order. Had to reroute the big poes as a result. Not sure if the big poe route is going to be any good.
- Opted to move the Fire Arrow platform GS to Child 2 on the assumption that you can't get that GS quickly enough to get it in Child 1.
- Changed the other child WW to go to the Silver Gauntlet's CS. It's close whether or not that's worth it. I think there's a good chance it is. I didn't originally think it was but then I realized you would never have to watch the Desert Colossus intro CS.
-- Had to change the Fish/Bug route as a result. You have to get a fish from a grotto now, which is kinda slow. I was able to improve the bugs route by a bit.
-- I was also able to save some seconds on the Fire CS Skip as a result of how we'll go to Nayru's after Spirit Temple instead of before.
- Noticed a way to save a few seconds by using less FW in adult Lost Woods.

I'll look over it on Friday. May take some notes as well, given the generally positive feedback you've gotten. From what I've seen just from skimming through, it seems that you've made a very good effort on the Big Poe route, but again, I only skimmed. I might steal some dungeon routes as well; a few of the dungeons can definitely benefit from your segmented approach. I'll have to do a little bit of research into tricks you mention that I don't know about. For example, this shieldswipe thing and the method for getting the Skulltulas behind the red rocks on DMT. I also like your routing of Child 1. If you don't mind me continuing to rip you off, I might try to rebuild my own Child 1 based on yours.

There are really two things that I see affecting the final time of a seg'd run: How much time the NG+ Saw saves and how much time flipping back and forth through time saves. The dungeon routes will probably be very similar (excepting Shadow, since I've decided to do that after getting Nocturne legit or at least sometime after Forest so I can grab the Quiver upgrade in KV), but the overworld routes will be vastly different due to NG+ skipping the trading quest routing entirely.

I commend you for writing that entire route purely from theory. I'd do your testing for the night/day stuff, but it appears I may have some massive revision to do. I hope Fox or maybe LttpMmOot will run through it for you. Once again, major kudos, r0bd0g!

Nah it's OK I did my fair share of ripping off the normal oot seg'd route.

Yeah time of day was something that I couldn't optimize as much as I would have liked. It's not really reasonable for me to go out and see how fast you can get from a to b on a game I don't own and when I'm kinda bad at the one I do :p. Maybe I could still theory route out a couple of the Sun's Songs though, IDK.

Splitting shadow into two parts is something I still don't know whether or not to do. The main reason it's done on normal OoT is because FW saves too much time and they don't have it when they get the hovers. But it's not the only reason. They also have Longshot, Ice Arrows, and BGS to save time with. Longshot is probably the best of these, with several places to save a couple seconds, the biggest one being that boat room GS. I realized now that I still kinda have to waste a bit of time with having to FW back to get to shadow. FW is like 15 seconds, to warping and entering the dungeon's 35 or 40 or so. I think there's a pretty good chance it's faster to split it up but I can't say it for sure... And if I do split it up, I have no idea where I'd take damage for the bolero CS skip without wasting a billion bombs or something (though maybe I could save a couple seconds on hp's if I didn't have to avoid them between shadow and bolero). There's also 50 free rupees in shadow and they I think kinda help out a bit but I'm sure I could easily find replacements at the cost of only a couple seconds. So uh, I was kinda hoping somebody would come and say something definitive about it but nobody really seems to know how much time those items actually save. There are a few other things that I'm not sure are saving time... Maybe someday I'll make a post about them if anybody actually decides to make a go of the route.

I thought I looked up that shield swipe still worked on 3D. If for some reason you can't dupe the milk then I guess you'll just have to drink it at some point. The input for it is fairly complicated and I'm not totally sure what exactly it is because the documentation of it is strangely poor. It's something like... get an empty bottle in your hand. Hold R. Push bottle. Push the item you want to dupe (if the item has a crouch stab, it'll crouch stab instead and you can't dupe it). Hold Z. Hold Bottle. Release R. The bottle swings and dupes using whatever you catch. Maybe I've got that wrong IDK. I sometimes throw in extra button presses for good measure, lol.

On normal OoT they get the lower red rock gs by killing it and then poking the hookshot through the rock at it. At the very least, on 3D, you should be able to hookshot clip it from the wall on the other side, if that method doesn't work anymore. The upper red rock GS is a little more iffy. They kill it and then backflip into it at the right angle to get the token. Maybe the changed hookshot mechanics in this game would let you get that with the hookshot too, if the backflip thing doesn't work anymore.

What's this about saving time with flipping back and forth through time? You have to do it at least once because of the song of storms. I managed to find reasons to want to leave child 2 until the very end, though they're just small time savers and you could probably put it anywhere after you get the stuff you need. Maybe that would be a good idea if you find yourself having to go through a lot of trouble to get bomb drops. You could maybe pick up the BB40 and it's free refill a little earlier.

I thought you were adapting the normal OoT 100% seg'd route, which I know flips back and forth more than once.  I figured you might have a few less overall seeing as we can't DoT skip, but again, I just kind of skimmed everything after Child 1. I don't really understand why they do it, and I'm not sure if the RTA route makes as many trips either.

Thanks for clarifying shield swipes. I'd seen CloudMax talking about them in the R&D, but I never knew what they were or how to do them. I don't think there could be a target input in 3D as putting up the shield while Z-targeting puts away any item you have in your hand that isn't your sword. I think Grezzo did that to make it so you couldn't do the glitch where you can see the hookshot laser while running around, although I thought that one was harmless and was actually really cool.

I'd think you could jump in the lava to damage yourself for Bolero cs skip. I don't recommend having long stretches in which Adult Link is running around with 1/2 <3, because in 3D they added a decrease in walking speed when you get that low on health to simulate fatigue.

Regarding the red rock GSs, I'm not sure a Hookshot clip would work from the opposite wall. The sidehop method of hookshot clipping only works if you're looking down and left. We may be able to get it from the obtuse angle on the tunnel. I'll do some testing. As for the upper... I tried laying a bomb next to the rock and it didn't kill it. I might have thrown it, so I'll test it again, but for now, I think that one will need to wait for hammer. Backflips in 3D have a completely different animation from the 64 version and don't go as high either, because Grezzo wanted to make it more realistic. The backflip may not clip far enough into the rock to get it. I tried to hookshot clip into the boulder to kill the Skulltula, but it kept pinging off the inside of the rock. Might be able to grab the token; again I'll do some testing. Deku grove GS w/ chu and hookshot should still be possible, and maybe even easier, because an extra ring appears around the laser when it's on a hookshotable object. I'm pretty sure this is also true for tokens, but I've never really payed attention to these in particular because I just aim and fire at them.

The normal oot 100 only switches time once... There's a couple things that a 2nd time flip could be useful for, maybe, but they don't save the time it takes to switch.

They usually killed them with jumpslashes or spins. Waiting until after the hammer would really suck. There's a chance it would mean a much earlier child 2 in order to plant the dmc bean... IDK what would happen really. Try looking up some oot 100 runs to get a better look at what they do when you test this...

A brief search seems to indicate that shield swipe only works if the bottle is on your B button? I guess you'll just have to drink it.

The red rock GS's are blocked from inside the walls as well, but I don't know about clipping through them yet...

Apparently the actor glitch in Jabu is fine? What about the mirror room actor glitch in spirit? I still need to be able to spawn the chest, and later I have to kill the enemies in lower child-side to open a barred door. If you can use the actor glitch to get down, that'd save a good bit of time.

Yeah, it should work in Spirit since Jabu works. But they moved the location of the crystal switch so there needs to be another setup.

Why would you assume it works in spirit because it works in jabu if it doesn't work in botw.... Unless they, like, specifically screwed around with botw just to troll us.

So do I need the hammer for those GS's or not?

You're right that I shouldn't assume about the Spirit Temple. And yes, you need the hammer to reach those GSs in DMT unfortunately.

askfjh

I don't think it's possible to fix this without having to make another trip through the crater. I thought of a couple of things you could try to cut down on that, but I couldn't think of anything that didn't sound slower. This means:

- The extra bolero warp might make the CS skip not worth it.
- It might be worth it to plant the bean.

Not sure about either of those.

Okay, so I'm actually playing through the route, r0bd0g. I got through segment 13 yesterday. I like most of it, and I was able to move some stuff around.

-First of all I didn't grab the crater HP and soil GS because it is extremely difficult to get them in 24 seconds. It's your choice about whether or not they themselves should be moved, but if you do not need to move them, I would suggest obtaining the Hylian Shield in the graveyard to allow some deathwarps and error so that Link will not lose his Deku Shield.
 
-In segment 8 I was able to obtain the Fire Arrow platform GS because when I got the letter it was sunset. I used a mini superswim off of a megaflip and swam the rest of the distance, which is still pretty slow, but I got to the Lab GS before the sun came up. I do think that there should be a Hess of some sort (I wonder if you could Wess to it) to save time in some way.

-I got the Know-it-All brothers GS after Jabu before heading into Deku. At first I thought this was just an error until I noticed that after the Requiem and soil GS it literally becomes dawn, so you can head to LLR and do the day stuff first and change it to night afterward, which should reduce the amount of Sun's Songs played to 1.

-Overall I liked how obtaining the slingshot optimized the later segments. That was a good call, imho.

No chance on the hylian shield grave. The HP and GS -might- move now that I have to make another trip through the crater, IDK. If it's possible to get it in 24 seconds and it's the fastest way, then that's what'll have to be done. You might be able to use your bugs to do timer delay? Maybe in RTA you would do something else to get the HP and warp in for the GS?

Did you get the sense that it was faster or slower than using serenade to get it in child 2?

I wonder if I can route the Sun's Song completely out of child 1 and skip that trip to the graveyard to get it, and perhaps speed up getting the song as well since I wouldn't have to walk back out of the grave. One problem spot is going to be the child ZF GS. I would have to leave Jabu after boomerang and then walk back in after I get the GS... The only reason I can consider this is b/c I don't need Epona's in child 1 anymore. I will have to lose time traveling all the way to child GV since probably lon lon will be after the bunny hood instead... Maybe it's slower even if it does work out. Anyway, you're right about that GS, so I'll fix that.

I wanna check if I can move the skulltula rewards to when I deliver the Keaton Mask. I've thought of an improvement that, if I do it, won't have enough GS's to get the upgrades where I get them now. Maybe it's faster at Keaton Mask anyway. EDIT: Yeah I was able to get rid of a FW usage by moving a sun's song warp that only saved like 1 second to earlier in the route. But then the place I used to get the quiver upgrade had to get moved since I hadn't been to forest yet, bringing another sun's song back into the route, plus another second or so of travel. So for like 3 seconds saved, I guess I'd rather not make the minuet & bolero segment even longer, unless there's a clip so I can get that quiver upgrade at night. Still moving the upgrade, though.

In an RTA there would need to be other methods. For the HP there is only one shot to get it if you plan to get it after double magic. I think you can obtain the GS with the timer glitch as long as you use the bottle many times to stop the timer. But they would have to be seperated in order for link to keep his shield.

I'm going to time obtaining both methods to reach the platform. You can superswim to the platform from both areas, but I will need to time the warp as well.

Serenade: 32 sec

From letter: 28 sec

It is 4 seconds faster, and I just swam from the letter that time. But I am really good at mashing and these times are within a margin of error unless you have to play the Sun's Song for the Serenade method.

That would be a big route change with the Sun's Song. But I'm going to check more of the route you already posted.

I'll check more about the rewards movement once I get there.

Does that include the time it takes to get back from the platform?

You can get that GS in child 2 at any point as long as the previous segment ended at night.

Oh I just noticed it's night in seg 14, so I moved the bazaar, tower, and tree GS's to it.

Okay, it took me 28 seconds to get back there. This was with a Hess off of an Octorok. It should be 5 seconds faster if you manage to not get caught in the bridge like I did here.

http://pastebin.com/z0kGpJsT

Hopefully now I'm done. I made this to fix issues with the red rock GS's apparently requiring the hammer. Had to change some things as a result...

- The Fire Temple WW was removed. With the time it takes to warp to bolero, it wasn't worth it anymore. (Maybe.)
- Child 2 was moved earlier so I could plant the bean. IDK if it's faster but w/e, enjoy your bean. The earlier 40 bag should come in handy. I didn't realize before that it wouldn't really be much trouble to do child 2 with a big poe still in one of your bottles.
- The Know it all bros house GS was moved and took out a lot of Sun's Song crap. I was also able to move some Kak GS's around.
- I was thinking to put Spirit after Fire but didn't b/c it might be difficult to get the many magic drops that that would require. Probably not the best thing to lose a couple seconds for. Maybe time of day or bomb counts would be more vital. Just keep in mind you can put spirit after fire if for some reason you think that'll work out better.
- I left the fire arrow platform GS until Child 2. I can't tell from what fox is saying if it's faster to swim all the way over there or not... If you can't do full superswims, I'm was guessing it wasn't. I'm not sure if he's realizing that if I get it in child 1, I have to swim all the way back from the platform as well.

And I really hope this is the last time I have to mess around with this. Renumbering segments, gs's, hp's, rupees.... not quite as fun as it sounds.

I hear you there, r0bd0g. Routing is annoying sometimes. :(

In NG+ news, which I know nobody cares about but I'm still doing it anyways, I'm going to begin rerouting child 1 tonight. Thankfully, BA-ing the saw only takes a few minutes, so it won't be that annoying to start over. ^_^

Can't you not just save a file with BA saw to set up your NG+ file? That's what I do for FW :P

I had that originally, but I accidentally saved after practicing FWWW... :'( So I need to get Saw all over again.

Okay, there are three extra hookshot clips that I used in the Shadow Temple to reach things:
 
 -Hookshot clip in skulltula/guillotine path to skip dealing with the skulltulas and walking
 
 -I clipped to skip the second Silver Rupee puzzle

 -I was able to clip through the corner of the wall to obtain the GS in the falling spike room, but you have to push the block to stop the first falling spike set from hitting you, so idk if it saves time there.

Bongo wasn't that bad with just the hookshot. I actually think it would need testing to see how much time longshot, BGS and Ice Arrows would save. We could block skip with the longshot which would save some time. And there's the stuff that normal Oot does.

From the data I collected, it is faster to wait until child 2 to grab it. You save 20 seconds with the Serenade method instead of during your first trip to Lake Hylia. I should have specified beforehand. :P

Just a quick question: How do Ice Arrows save time in Shadow?

"Just a quick question: How do Ice Arrows save time in Shadow?"
They should speed up the bongo fight by a few seconds.

"Hookshot clip in skulltula/guillotine path to skip dealing with the skulltulas and walking"
I've added that to my copy of the route. Good eye.

"I clipped to skip the second Silver Rupee puzzle"
How did you manage that? You mean the one with the beamos and the traps? I looked around there and couldn't find anything to hookshot to. What'd you hookshot?

"I was able to clip through the corner of the wall to obtain the GS in the falling spike room, but you have to push the block to stop the first falling spike set from hitting you, so idk if it saves time there."
Neat, but yeah I'm kinda doubting that one when you can basically just run in there and get the thing.

Wha- How could Ice Arrows speed up Bongo? I know they freeze his hand, but I've never seen an instance where they're faster than regular arrows. But maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places.

r0bd0g, if you backwalk to Castle Town from Fairy Ocarina, you should make it there before nightfall. I don't know what this waiting for dawn business is.

He opens his eye, which shortens his first phase and makes it extremely easy.

There are these wooden things alongside the walls that you can hookshot like all the wooden floors in the room before block skip, and I hookshot one to skip the walkway and another is close enough to get past the gate to the falling spike room.

"I don't know what this waiting for dawn business is."
You need the egg to hatch to wake Talon.

"There are these wooden things alongside the walls that you can hookshot like all the wooden floors in the room before block skip, and I hookshot one to skip the walkway and another is close enough to get past the gate to the falling spike room."
Those aren't hookshotable in normal OoT. I specifically checked to see if you could skip this gate. I was like, why can you not hookshot this stuff but I could do it back in the Skulltula room.
I'll add that in, assume it's not solid coming the other way. I don't think this will cause rupee problems but I'll have to check to be sure. EDIT: Yeah, if I don't pick up any extra rupees I'll have exactly enough for the deku nut upgrade.

r0b, I wasn't talking about the Wierd Egg, I was talking about the bridge rupees. You say it doesn't matter because you have to wait for dawn, but the sun should be just starting to set when you get there. You might have enough time to get the rupees before nightfall (factor in a half heart of damage for each one), but I'm not sure.

@Fox Ooooooh. Wow. Okay. Thanks for clarifying, that will come in handy ;D

You don't lose time picking up those rupees because either way you should make it to talon before the egg hatches. But uh, since you mention the fall damage from the chains, uh, route change, lol. Savewarp after deku take the 1/2 heart from the fall from the chains. It seemed actually a little tricky to take fall damage from that, like, it's barely high enough.

Okay, so I'm now through Segment 42.
-I used the explosive-fish method to damage myself for the Minuet CS skip. I didn't take damage before the RI warp in Shadow and the tektites seemed to be good for taking damage for the Bolero. Equipping the hover boots might speed this up here.
-The chu-hookshot trick works for the Forest Stage GS
-I used a bombchu and did a hookshot jump to reach the first GS in the Forest Temple
-I was able to grab the GS in the right courtyard from the edge right near edge to the water
-You can reach the archery game at night by hookshot clipping the left corner behind the house
-I came up with a route for the Gerudo Token and it was really easy. You enter the one closest to the gate first, then you leave through the other exit and HJ off of the box and enter the loading zone near there. Then you IDJ off of the vine and obtain the GS and the HP and enter to the next area. Then you leave and head back to the vine and head to the final carpenter. (I'll try to make this more detailed soon)
-I did a superslide to the archery GS and did a Sun's Song warp after the receiving the Gerudo Token
-I did a hoverboost and a jumpslash to reach the area with the HP early in the Ice Cavern
-You can (but it's pretty difficult and you need many bombs) skip pushing the block in the silver rupee room with megajumps
-I used the hover boots to damage buffer for the Serenade CS skip so I wouldn't move
-The trick for the claim check does not work because the timer starts immediately upon entering (it sucks I know  :'( ), so should we perhaps get two other poes on the way to him?
-I don't think you can skip that annoying room with an HJ because the ceiling is flat
-I took damage form the GS on the tree and with the hover boots I didn't fall off
 

UGH. About the claim check trick, did you test it with coming from the crater, assuming the heat timer does override it?
It could be possible that it's just the FW it doesn't work with.


I'll make changes to the route based on the rest of what you'd told me. A couple comments:

- I have a better route for the Windmill if you're damaging with tektites. Also I think I will just damage down all the way to 1/2 heart and use the damn moron tunic. Also I will move the rock wall GS to here so you can have another excuse to blow yourself up.
- Clipping into the archery house is faster than playing Sun's Song, right? I'll change the route for this to be in. If you're wondering what the deal was there, there's a Sun's Song warp after the Twin's House GS now and that vile segment continues until you can deliver the mushroom. It wasn't much of a time saver, so I didn't think it worth it to make that segment longer to include it, but now that I know you can clip in at night, it should save a decent amount of seconds, anyway.
- I don't understand how the Sun's Song warp is helping. The FW back to the training ground should be faster than a Sun's Warp and walking back out...
- Were you able to get the HP w/o blue fire, and where you able to skip the last red ice wall w/o blue fire? It wouldn't be the end of the world if you couldn't.
- The trick jumps I was referring to are where you like, run towards one of the holes, and then turn around at the right time. Link slides to the edge of the hole and jumps but the jump ends up going inward. You should be able to do that in both places where it'd be needed. Maybe you could find a video of this somewhere, IDK.
- How was the timing with fishing while on the eyeball frog timer?

The claim check was tested coming from the crater. If you just FW there the timer runs out before you land, and the timer ran out on literally the first roll.

I'll review the FW warp outside the training grounds. It was night when I got the Gerudo Token, so that's why I went to the skulltula and the Sun's Song warp took place.

I couldn't. The red ice is slightly different on 3d. I'll make sure to double check, however.

I'll start looking over the trick jumps. I must have not read that line or something.

Lol, I suck so bad at fishing that I knew I wouldn't be able to pull it off. I tried it later and it took longer than the timer. Are there any tips on this?

Edit: Trick jumps work. I will have to double check the HP like I said because I got a blue rupee in one area.

Really you have to deliver that thing. Ugh.

My route said to make it day and do the archery first. I guess I dunno for sure if it's faster that way. I'm not sure how time of day is going to work out when you reach the next GS's in zora's river.

So the HP might work maybe, but the last red ice wall isn't skippable? To get the HP they put down a bomb to get some extra collision going. ZFG I think has a video of what he does on normal OoT.

Do you think there was enough time to get everything done, though, if you were able to pull up the fish right away? I'd hate to have to do it on the Eye Drops timer because already I have a lot of things I'd like to get during that, so that'll probably be tight too. It'll be a hell of a segment.

What's the fastest way to walk to Biggoron?

It depends on how fast you grab Poe #9. I think it is possible to get the skulltulas if the movements are fast enough.
I've tried to clip through red ice before and I couldn't for some reason. I think I will have to come back to it, because I am completely uncertain and I don't trust myself with this...

For a segmented run it seems like it is possible as long as you know how to fish really well. But it looks like there would only be one chance for it there, but it would save a lot of time.

The fastest way to walk to Biggoron is by reaching the bridge area in LW from LH and then performing an HJ off the bridge, and then to GC and then to DMC.

Delivering the Eye Drops you need to get the scrub grotto HP and big poes 7, 6, and 8. Doable?

Yes. That's fine.

I'll throw in the HP on the lab too. There's a problem though is that I still have Big Poe 9. I'll have to think about this more. I think I could use FW to save some time in ZF and I could drop the poe off then, but then that's like, a couple extra trips to the poe collector, so I'm not sure how it's gonna work out.

So I got through the rest of the route yesterday.
-The Spirit Temple Actor glitch does not work and now I understand why. I noticed that on the doors in the temple, time stops completely. So should we clip into the puzzle area and push the statues? They and the mirrors are always loaded and we can easily clip back in with a hookshot clip. I may need to time this, actually.
-I literally think that Child 2 is well thought out. The mask quest is fast and the sidequests are well placed.
-The HP in the graveyard in the crate can be obtained with the boomerang. However, there are other methods and idk whether or not the boomerang method is the fastest. I would like to see a setup for it.
-There are two new tricks in the Fire Temple:
 -With a TSC clip within the first Fire Circle area you can get behind the gate and to the switch, which saves a key.
 -There is a Grunz Clip that allows us to hover to the blocked door in the main entrance, which makes us able to BK skip right after obtaining the Hammer.
-It doesn't look like we can reach double defense early.

If I'm understanding this right... there IS a clip to get past the hammer blocks in the first room and there IS a replacement for the block clip? Those are really nice to have, lol. I forget if this makes the fire cs skip better or worse, lol. I think it makes it a bit worse. I think at this point it'd be hard to think of a way to make it good in 100%. Uh, is there no video of this TSC? It does skip the HSJ off the map chest right?

Too bad about the actor glitch. Did you look into getting that key after the lower child side GS by grabbing the ledge below the part of the gate that falls down? I've never tried this so IDK if there's a trick to it.

The fastest way to get that HP on normal OoT is to use the longshot to get up there but we never go there after getting the longshot, so getting it with the boomerang is best (though RG has been getting his nuts back at dampe's grave and getting it then). You could watch current 100% runs to see what their set-up is, though probably not a recent RG run. That said I mean probably you could do a 3DS-only thing like HSJ up there? Thing is that might be slower? A bonus of the boomerang trick is you can multitask it with the soil GS.

As far as rerouting the poes, uh, there are some decisions I need to make still that I haven't bothered to try and see which is best. Need to see whether or not to get Big Poe 9. Need to see whether or not to plant the bean... again... The reason is that before I was keeping one of the big poes through child 2 so I didn't have to make an extra trip to the collector. Now if I don't get all the big poes back-to-back I can't FW back every time, and on one of those trips, I want to get nocturne, which means I need fire temple cleared already. Probably I'm just going to give up on trying to choose between bean/no bean and just leave it the way it is. How did your bombs hold out? If the 40 bag was crucial then that kinda makes the decision easier.

http://pastebin.com/BFeLadLj

Fix for the Claim Check issue. If there are no -more- major issues, then I'm done updating this. I also incorporated the tricks I was told about. I noticed that you have to cross the graveyard an extra time if you don't split shadow, so I made the decision to to split it. I had to compensate by finding a couple more rupees, but it didn't really waste much time to get them. I tried to fix some time of day stuff in child 2 so I could get the stuff in night child graveyard on the first trip through it. I couldn't do it before b/c Dampe wasn't there. I moved some more stuff around and you need a lot more magic drops than you used to, but it doesn't really seem like a problem. Still no idea if planting the bean is a good idea or not.

Now it'll be up to somebody who owns the game to keep going on this. Optimize the time of day a little better, add more 3DS-only stuff that I don't know about, route out your explosives and bomb drops, stuff like that. Good luck.

Maybe if I get bored I'll make an RTA route out of it but don't hold your breath. :p

Once again, thanks for your continued support R0bd0g. Now that I finally got the Any% NG+ WR, I'm gonna start reviewing this route and will probably make an RTA route out of it. After reading over some of it, it seems that not too much will have to be change if people are willing to practice some of the more difficult tricks like.

I'm stupid, lol, bad copy-pasting strikes again. I'm selling the fish before I can use it for the poe cs skip. I could get the 50 rupees in DMT instead, though I would need to find some more rupees besides, but... I think it'd be better with seg 22 being shorter since it's long enough without it. I will add a FW after first coming to LW and then do Forest. Not worth updating the route over, anyway. I found some magic just after the silver rock skip that should cover that extra cast nicely. I will check more if this is the best option here.

I also remembered you can't cast FW inside Link's House, so I will try and combine some segments together and move some stuff around to avoid this. Expect longer segments in Child 2. There is one segment that'll have to be longer than I would like. The fire arrow platform gs provides some flexibility.

I'm seriously considering doing fire and/or water without the biggoron sword. I want to see if the time saved on fights is less than the time it takes to play sun's enough times to get it. You have to go to biggoron again and the sun's will happen naturally in that time... EDIT: Yes, I'm moving BGS to adult 2 when you go down DMT with the hammer. You will lose a bit of time in Fire. I couldn't really find a better way to damage down for the prelude cs skip than to use that GS... so you will have to lose time in water for no reason. I will think about it some more.

Just wondering, but in this category might NG+ Boomerang save more time than than Saw? You can skip almost all of JJB with it, and there are a pile of GS's that it could help on. First seg could look something like Sword + WWT -> ZL -> Cucco bottle + Sun's Song -> GC -> Saria's Song -> Bracelet + DC + Shield -> ZR -> Silver Scale -> back down ZR -> LLR -> GV -> LH + Ruto Bottle -> Fishing HP + Savequit, and second seg could look something like GDT -> LW warp to ZR + Fish -> Move KZ -> JJB -> FW + Savequit.

Obviously get all the HP's and GS's as you pass them.

You can't skip any more of JJB than you already do b/c you still need to actually get the boomerang.

Oh yeah. I suppose there are no JJB timesavers later on if you come back here as an adult to get it while getting serenade, Iron Boots, and those PoH's? All I can think of is that you wouldn't have to raise the water in B1fl because you could just climb the ledge, or maybe use hoverboots to get across.

Not really worth a new post, but here are some minor fixes. Fixed the issue with the Fish, and the issue with trying to return FW from inside Link's house. The day graveyard and gerudo valley segments had to be combined -- hopefully that's not a problem. I also moved the BGS until later. I'm still internally debating about whether or not to do the water temple with the BGS. The next best option I could think of for the prelude CS skip is to do it after serenade cs skip. You have lose a 12-second timesaver and you have to RI the bombs instead of using the FW back to the ToT, though I'm not sure what the damage is there. Besides that, you would not have the longshot in Fire, and also Dark Link will have more health when you get to him, though you would still kill him faster that w/o the BGS. Last edit for real this time. http://pastebin.com/mAK4D1Pm

Yeah I can't see Jabu as adult doing anything. Only I could think you could get the GS's in the basement of the main room, but I feel like it's not worth it to enter/exit Jabu again just to have adult's movement while getting those. I think the trip to them is probably shorter after boomerang besides.

Posted route to ZSR. Some parts still need editing, so I need some help with that.

Just something you need to know is the route has a lot of guesswork on my part. A lot of things should still be timed to see for sure if they're faster, and it'd be a lot of work to do it especially seeing as you can't test it on emulator. Things like, IDK, ZL CS skip, the Nocturne WW vs. Iron Boots... and a lot of little things besides.

Can someone test this? I think you can skip the ice before Iron Boots by hookshot jumping off of the freezard and jumpslashing. I don't have any files that can test this at the moment.
Edit: Yes, you can, but I got jumped off of the freezard and got jumpslash recoil off of an icicle.

King Zora skip as adult!!!!!! ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXb-qlLh4TU&

Nice job. :o

Can you verify that you can still walk through him while he's unfreezing?
Can I bottle dupe the Ruto's letter? I kinda need that bottle for Poes...

I can route the silver scale out but it is going to cause issues with the scarecrow song and bottles...


Do you think that jump faster than melting it? We have to go to that last blue fire source anyway and we still need two bottles so it would only take a second to pick up a second fire. If you could skip the ice blocking the puzzle room w/o wasting a bunch of time or if you could skip melting the red ice for the rupee, that would help out since then I could do the ice cavern on only 1 bottle and that might help out with the bottle issues caused by the KZ skip.

Its possible to walk through him :) I tried that freezard clip in the first room and i couldnt get it :(
As for those ice skips...il test them out.

I'm still trying to figure out how it would be done to skip KZ. You will have one less bottle when you go there b/c for sure I want serenade in child 2, so I won't go back to child earlier to get it. Unless maybe I figure out that a child/adult 3 is actually a good idea, though I'm not really sure how that would work. With the door open it won't take nearly as long to switch time on 3D as it does on normal OoT, so that's something actually worth looking into. Anyway if I only have two bottles, then I can't get all three poes that I get while delivering the eye drops. To balance that out I could pick up two before ice cavern. I will have to drop those off -before- ice cavern, which costs me 15 seconds or so while I cast FW an extra time. So I guess the hope of those ice skips is if you can do that and bottle dupe your nuts in less than 15 seconds, I could skip the extra FW cast.

Also, you won't have scarecrow yet when you first go to lake hylia. This means you will have to do the scarecrow stuff before entering water temple. It will cost a bit of time as you walk from playing serenade over to the scarecrow, but it will save you the pain of having to fish while on the eyeball frog timer. This means water temple will have to be in adult 2, so I will lose the current method of damaging down for the prelude cs skip (I will also gain the BGS and hammer in Water and lose the longshot in Fire). The next best time to do that is after serenade cs skip. And if I have to empty out my bottles before going into Ice Cavern, that kinda ruins the synergy of having to deliver the poes and also having low health for the cs skip, so again another red ice skip would be nice.

With only 1 bottle I will lose time on the bug/fish route in child 1. I would like to bottle dupe my nuts before Jabu but I won't because Jabu is a place where the nuts will actually be useful.

I still need to know if I can bottle dupe over Ruto's letter.

Grezzo put all of their effort into this one ice. The other one can be clipped through easily....but that doesnt stop me 8) i found a way through! Takes about 20 secs to do and requires hammer and hover boots. Ill try to do it without hammer.

Ladies and gentlemen... Pedalpowertoast: Pro Glitcher! *applause*

I just checked on normal OoT and couldn't ocarina items to bottle dupe ruto's letter -- it didn't do anything at all. Is emptying ruto's letter a requirement for 100%? To skip Silver Scale and Mweeping you would need to make an extra trip to the field to collect Poes, and that's if you get two every time. To even do that I will have to bottle dupe nuts and do ice cavern with one bottle. If you can't get past the red ice without the hammer you will lose time making extra trips to the blue fires. I won't get the hammer first because I need the scarecrow in Fire and I won't be getting the scarecrow until after Ice. A little later I will see how much this could save and then try and guess how much is lost as a result...

Apparently you can shield swipe with a bottle on B, but since RBA/BA is banned, the only way to do it is with bottle NG+, lol.

I saw a video where somebody put on the iron boots as child, what's up with that? Is that something you can just do I haven't heard anything...

If we do do KZ skip we won't have the gold scale while we deliver the bunny hood... I will still get around to checking out if KZ skip is worth it...

I think thats an effect of "inventory overstuffing"