Anyone Want to route Glitchless for Wii?
Lovingood2799:
I started routing Glitchless for the Wii and I have no idea what is a glitch and what isn't for the game. LJA's can't be done on Wii, but is Early Master Sword still a glitch? It's just a sequence break and doesn't manipulate anything in the game. I would love some help if anyone is interested. I think an estimate for this speedrun would be about 8 hours or so, maybe even more.
Habreno:
I had 100% Glitchless on Wii routed a year or so ago, and my segmented time on that was 11h31m roughly.
What I considered a glitch was based on the following three guidelines I had set myself, plus an acknoledgement. Version specific tricks/glitches are defined in parethesis.
1) You must be where the game intends you to be (aka no OOB)
2) You must be where the game thinks you are (aka no Map Glitch)
3) You must travel as the game intends you to do so (aka no Super Jump)
Acknowledgement: Abusing poor coding does not equal a glitch.
Following those guidelines (which I understand can be controversial; how does one define "the game's intent" and "poor coding"), I determined the following to be examples of glitches, with reasoning in parenthesis:
EMS (1, 3; You go OOB and you're using the charge attack as a form of travel)
BiT (1, BiTE is 2 and 3; You're not supposed to be playing on the title screen, and BiTE loads Ordon Village as well as Hyrule Field, and is a warp the game never intended)
Any clipping through objects-Early CiTS main offender of this, but Freezard Skip and EBK in Arbiter's Grounds also qualify (1, OOB)
Iron Boots Glitch (Wii; 3, unintended speed on magnetic ceilings)
Boomerang Long Jump (GC; 3, unintended travel method)
Map Glitch (2, game has a different area loaded than your current location)
Darknut Skip in Hyrule Castle (3, Jump Strike used for travel)
First Barrier in Hyrule Castle- Entrance Room (3, same as above)
Iza 1 Skip (1, OOB either in Plumm Minigame or Clawshot Clip through the wall in Lake Hylia, and then OOB in Zora's River)
Not an exhasutive list, but once again, examples.
Not a glitch:
Delaying rupee textboxes, by jumping over them (being in the air while collecting a rupee is valid, and the game specifically does not have the textbox trigger when this is the case)
Cutscenes warping you to the proper location- example being wolf in Ordon Village, scaring Hanch (abusing poor trigger designs is not a glitch)
Hyrule Courtyard Barrier Skip- King Bublin Pre-Fight Bokoblins (skipping a cutscene and doing a roll is not a glitch. It's certainly unintended, but as above, poor coding of triggers =/= glitch)
Hyrule Castle Barrier Skip-Chandalier Room (same as above)
Savewarps, Deathwarps, Voidwarps (normal gameplay)
Stealing Oil from Trill (It's allowed in normal gameplay. Skipping having Trill get mad at you for it is also not a glitch as the game "soft resets" the area after the bokoblin dies and Trill talks to you, forgetting that you already filled your lantern up)
Debatable:
Cave of Ordeals Boomerang "Debug" (Wii)- The existence of it is fine. It's certainly unintended (you're supposed to fight the rooms) but it's nothing that breaks the guidelines. I'm leaning toward this being not a glitch.
CitS Cutscene Skip- It uses a normal jump attack while falling from a peahat with the wind blowing to avoid a trigger. If you could simply drop from the peahat and land normally then there's absolutely no way that this is a glitch. The jump attack makes this very suspect as a form of unintended travel, and thus why I am leaning toward this being a glitch.
Early Heart Piece/Statue Skip (Temple of Time, 5th Floor)- The former is extremely precise throws. The latter is abusing a cutscene. I'm leaning towards these being not glitches, though the statue skip is much more controversial than the early heart piece. Early Heart Piece is poor coding. Statue Skip uses a cutscene for transportation, which is much more questionable.
Scales Skip- Leaning glitch. You're supposed to balance the weights to carry across the statue; by chaining backhops and not allowing the game to update the weights of the scales, you're really not having the statue travel as intended.
EBK no Scales (Temple of Time)- Leaning glitch here, too, as the railing is not really supposed to be climbed on. Of the debatable ones I view as glitches, this is the one I feel the least strongly about.
2nd Key Shard Skip (Goron Mines)- Leaning not glitch. It's extremely difficult, requires you to climb onto a thin ledge as the ledge is moving and then run off the ledge and grab a higher ledge. It's not intended, but it's grabbing ledges. That said, the Boomerang Long Jump version of the skip, on GC, is hands-down a glitch.
Spike Skips (Arbiter's Grounds, 2nd Basement)- Strongly towards not a glitch. The spikes delay a bit in coming up, you're doing a normal jump attack on the ground, and you're still getting damaged by the spikes. They're just pushing you the "wrong way"- you're not clipping through them, the collision is pushing you away from them as it should, but on the opposite side that you started on.
Notes:
The main debate points are if normal speed jump attacks are considered "glitches" if they skip/avoid triggers. In some cases, I view it as such (CitS Cutscene Skip, because of the distance covered) and in others, I don't (Hyrule Castle Barrier Skip in the Chandalier room, because it's done from the ground at normal speed). Most game actions (jumping, running, attacking) are completely fine, and it's only when we use them very specifically do they become "abusable". If abusable turns into glitch depends on circumstances.
EBK in Arbiter's Grounds would be fine if it didn't go between the pillar and the wall. Wolfing across sand via normal attacks is either intended or poor coding (not sure which); it's the clipping that renders it a glitch.
All that having been said, a rough route for Glitchless Any% (either version, Wii or GC) would be:
Start time on passing Setup screen (after naming Epona)
Ordon Village, no Gate Clip.
Faron Twilight, no EMS.
Monkey Follow, Steal Lantern Oil, Forest Temple gathering all 8 monkeys.
Roll to Eldin Province, Mailman, Kakariko Bridge, Eldin Twilight
Iron Boots, Back to Kakariko, KB1, Death Mountain, Goron Mines
Bomb Bag from Barnes, Lanayru Twilight (Skip Castle Town until after vessel)
Cannon to FBF (Flight By Fowl), Epona to Castle Town, Telma Escort and KB2
Zora Armor, buy Water Bombs, Kakariko Graveyard to Lake Hylia, bomb open Lakebed Temple
Lakebed Temple, with both sides of water activated properly and boss key obtained.
MDH, Master Sword, Auru's Memo, Cannon to Gerudo Desert
Bublin Camp, run through, get small key, KB3 fight, Bulbo to Arbiter's Grounds
Arbiter's Grounds, Poe Scent, first half, open gate. Long Route second half, no savewarp, no Death Sword Skip, no EBK.
Raise Mirror of Twilight, Ashei's Sketch, Upgraded Fishing Rod, Reekfish Scent, Snowpeak Mountain
Snowboarding, Dungeon Map, Ordon Pumpkin, Ball and Chain, Ordon Goat Cheese
2F puzzles to Bedroom Key, Blizzetta fight. Quick-Kill Phase 2 is fine.
Golden Cucco to Sacred Grove, Sacred Grove 2, Sacred Grove Portal, Temple of Time
Climb to Statue, most things discussed above, get Dominion Rod, get Statue, take statue to 1F, boss.
Hidden Village Sidequest/Chain of Deals, activate Dominion Rod, fill Ancient Sky Book
Move CitS Cannon, Cannon to CitS, CitS, quick-kills on miniboss/boss both valid, as is iron boots "void out" on Argarok.
Palace of Twilight, wings, central tower, Zant.
Hyrule Castle, most things discussed above, Possessed Zelda, Beast Ganondorf, Horseback Ganondorf, QuickKill Ganondorf.
Stop time at Finishing Blow.
100% is a bit trickier, as you have to deal with poes and time of day becomes important. As I said at the start of the post, I had a route for this a year ago but all I have remaining of it is very rough generalizations (I have the splits and their names, and that's about it). Once again version doesn't matter, but Wii is faster (less lag, faster menuing, gear swaps are easier with four slots vs two)
Feel free to debate glitch definitions; I'm just one body (and seven personalities, but let's not discuss those now) and certainly not Mr./Ms. Twilight Princess.
Lovingood2799:
This is a really good route and that's the route I was going to do. I was also just trying to get some interest in the category even though it's really long and probably really hard. I've found skips and a few 10 second tike savers. When I get a capture card I'll upload to my youtube all of my Glitchless IL and segments but I want to do this Glitchless run all as a single segment. I'll work on IL for a bit before I start actual runs but the category seems really fun.
Habreno:
Any% isn't that big an issue, there's no time of day shenanigans to worry about, but 100% single-segment is *rough*
I think a few of the more major TP runners were interested at one point, until the normal Any% route became so much shorter. Not sure how much is out there on glitchless, though.
Lovingood2799:
So I did a run up to the end of Goron Mines and stopped time when Fyrus dies. I ended at 2:29:57 but there were about 5 or 6 minutes of annoying mistakes.
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