What is a glitch? / Glitchless RTA runs
Skyreon:
Oh man here we go.
First of all I was not sure where to place this post but after some search I ultimately decided to make it a topic of its own. If you think this should be placed somewhere else then please redirect me; this is my first ZSR forum post.
A couple of months back I routed and did a any% glitchless run just to get a rough idea of how long the game is casually. The run I did was embarrassingly bad and I've wanted to improve it ever since, however I thought I should ask the community through a official post what should be allowed and what shouldn't. When I did my run I didn't do any glitches, sequence breaks, tricks or skips.
Here is the video: http://www.twitch.tv/skyreon/c/2601787
I heard Mofat originally had plans to do a glitchless run but participated in the no s+q hype when that category came to life. As far as I'm concerned no TP runners have finished a glitchless run yet, so I might be the only one (besides Let's Players rofl). I have no right to chose what is allowed and what isn't; that's up to the community which is why I am making this thread.
What I did in my run:
-Got the wooden sword and taught the kids combat
-Saved all of the monkeys in Forest Temple
-Received mail in Hyrule Field omw to Kakariko
-Completed Goron Mines without any LJAs
-Cleared Lanayru Twilight
-Emptied regular bombs during escort
-Bought water bombs from Barnes
-Kakariko Graveyard to Lake Hylia waterway shortcut
-Lakebed Temple w/o any LJAs or clips (Although I did use the Iron Boots to eliminate Morpheel shaking me off)
-Midna's Desperate Hour
-Master Sword
-Auru's memo
-Warped the Eldin bridge piece (I forgot to do this at first but it was the intended route)
-Completed Arbiter's Grounds w/o the wolf clip and chandellier LJA, only did a save warp after Spinner
-Used the Spinner to activate the Mirror cutscene to warp normally
-Got Ashei's sketch and showed it to Ralis
-Fished the Reekfish and got the scent
-Did Snowpeak w/o any LJAs or Freezard skips
-Entered Sacred Grove using the golden cucco
-Completed ToT w/o the gate skip (Clawshot target) and pot skip (where you stand on the switch and roll as the gate closes), however I did do the 'cutscene climb' where I rolled onto the platform to skip bringing another small statue. I also did the backhop method with the big statue on the weights and made the statue fall down instead of using the lift in the big room where the poe is behind bars. Debatable
-Got Renaldo's letter and delivered it to Telma
-Doctor, medicine scent, Telma's cat, totem pole (I had to wait until night. This may be possible to fix with a proper route?)
-Showed the totem to Ilia and headed to Hidden Village
-Completed the Ancient Sky Book side quest
-Completed CitS w/o ANY LJAs since I had not used it as a time saver earlier in the run, no cutscene skip on the ledge/Peahat B slash also no flame skip on Argorok Highly debatable
-Completed Palace of Twilight w/o any LJAs
-Completed Hyrule Castle w/o any barrier skips
What I considered to not include in the run:
-LJAs w/ and w/o Boomerang that will skip a part of the game (Sword and shield skip, Forest Temple LJA, Lakebed LJA etc.)
-Clips: OoB and squeezing in between tight spaces (gate clip in Ordon, vine clip in Lakebed, fence clip in Gerudo Desert, early Spinner, early CitS etc.)
-Skips: cutscene triggers, text boxes
I had ideas of utilising LJAs that save a small amount of time but doesn't break the game like jumps in CitS and mailman skips. During my run I had a few TP runners in the chat and I asked them what they considered to be a glitch, skip, trick and what not. Runners that came to my stream: Zaf1re, Mlgsince1972, Chaoslinkx33, Quantumz1/Jaffar1234
Now this ultimate question goes to everyone in the TP community; what is a glitch, skip, trick and what should be allowed in a glitchless run?
Mofat:
-Completed ToT w/o the gate skip (Clawshot target) and pot skip (where you stand on the switch and roll as the gate closes), however I did do the 'cutscene climb' where I rolled onto the platform to skip bringing another small statue. This should definitely be allowed, These are not glitches but oversights. Also I think the back hop method is fine too, it works exactly as the physics in the game intend it to.
-Cits cutscene skip is iffy, if it were just the jump it would be fine but it does skip the cutscene, or another way to put it is skipping a trigger which I consider to border line on a glitch, but nothing extra special is required for this one such as an LJA, hell with the other method you don't even need to use the peahat. I believe the flame skip should be in there, as you are just manipulating his AI to your advantage and not oh say..LJA'ing onto his back.
-Completed Hyrule Castle w/o any barrier skips - I think these should be allowed, unless someone can come up with a compelling argument.
I'll probably do a run of this sooner rather than later.
Skyreon:
Really glad to see you of all replied as I know you were originally going to do a run of this. :)
This whole discussion is edgy and needs influence by many runners, this isn't something I can simply decide just because I have the "world record". Honestly I hope someone provides evidence of a better time since my run was so bad.
The CitS cutscene skip isn't a complicated skip and it doesn't require much effort, the only problem I see is the fact that it's not just a cutscene but an event since the bridge would usually get destroyed.
-Completed Hyrule Castle w/o any barrier skips - I think these should be allowed, unless someone can come up with a compelling argument.
Absolutely; the idea of barrier skips is to just move away quick enough, it could actually happen in a casual run (especially the one as a wolf). What puts this on the edge for me is the one you do inside HC where you're barely getting away. You use a certain setup that you wouldn't stumble upon casually
ahou:
Quote
What puts this on the edge for me is the one you do inside HC where you're barely getting away. You use a certain setup that you wouldn't stumble upon casually
Why would that matter...?
Chaoslink:
To be honest I can't really define what is/isn't a glitch, mostly because a lot of them are really strange (At least in this game)
Most of Temple of Time can probably be done with the short cuts (Besides the LJA of course) and even the back hop trick with the scales, I think should be allowed.
I believe that we could still steal bombs from Iza cause TECHNICALLY that isn't a glitch, it's more of an exploit, and you really don't abuse anything from the game, you just use oocoo which I think isn't really a glitch since you're using something that the game already gives you. Sure you're not supposed to be able to do that, but again you're not going against any game physics really.
Not really sure why you obtained the eldin bridge piece, unless I'm just not familiar with the route, I'm pretty sure you don't need it, though I could be wrong.
Flame skip and cutscene skip in City is definetely an iffy one, I think it would highly depend on how you do cutscene skip, but honestly I think it should be allowed, same with Flame Skip since neither of those are really glitch worthy imo.
That's really all I can comment on for now, maybe I'll try this out for myself to see where we could use more time savers.
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