Author Topic: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion  (Read 1745741 times)

Offline Razor

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Re: Jabun Early
« Reply #80 on: April 08, 2010, 01:25:38 PM »
I respect what you're saying, Ani, but there is still room to try. There might be a difference by trying at the beginning of the game, and if nothing else, trading the Pictobox for the Windwaker--or any item for that matter-- would seem to be a sequence break on its own. Surely you've also done some looking into skipping the first three dungeons. I may still try to prove you wrong. And anyway, if it is possible to get the Master Sword, in full power, early then it would be possible to go to Hyrule during the first visit after defeating all the Moblins & Darknuts. I hope that you're finding a way to use wrong warp to get into the ToG early because then we might be close to the biggest sequence break since the DoT skip in OoT. :)
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #81 on: April 09, 2010, 08:20:13 AM »
Try wrong-warping from Forsaken Fortress. I don't know where it warps you to. I bet it's nothing interesting though.
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #82 on: April 09, 2010, 12:54:37 PM »
I think someone already made a statement that FF doesn't warp to the ToG, but thanks for the consideration. Couldn't get anywhere on the TS (trial skips). My theory consists of using one of the Bokolins' swords, with the assistance of a bomb, to clip through one of the trial doors & then use the deku leaf to get behind the big door. No progress yet. I'm using a file where I already beat the game so I can't try the strategy on the big door itself. Can someone who hasn't passed the door test it? I need to figure out a way to wrong warp without needing fade-ins. Don't know when I'll get around to it though. ???
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Cerpin_Taxt

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2010, 12:19:53 PM »
1.The current wrong warp is only to outside locations to my knowledge.
2.Trial Skip: Both of those items can be moved. You need an unmovable to clip.
3.The FF2 door has no fadeout.
4.There is no stone door until you visit Greatfish isle. Also, it is possible to dive with a hyoi pear.

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2010, 04:35:01 PM »
1.The current wrong warp is only to outside locations to my knowledge.
2.Trial Skip: Both of those items can be moved. You need an unmovable to clip.
3.The FF2 door has no fadeout.
4.There is no stone door until you visit Greatfish isle. Also, it is possible to dive with a hyoi pear.
About the hyoi pear, I know, but WW dive is a lot easier & more convenient. About the trial skip, could you be more specific when you say "both of those items can be moved. You need an unmovable to clip"? Thanks for the tips though. Not quite sure what to make of the WW speedrun though.
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2010, 02:32:37 AM »
3.The FF2 door has no fadeout.

Yes it does.

EDIT:

I read wrong. Which door are you talking about? I know there is a fade-out at FF2 though.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 02:35:08 AM by Phazon »
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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2010, 07:19:44 AM »
@Razor
Can you upload your trails skip theory to YouTube so I can help you?

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2010, 10:38:13 AM »
@Razor
Can you upload your trails skip theory to YouTube so I can help you?
Here's all that I got http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux97jwKKneg. Hope you can find something. :)
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Marcus

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2010, 11:05:37 AM »
Like I said in the video, it was a very good theory but it seems impossible.  :( I tried the same thing on boss doors to skip boss keys. I have another idea of how to skip the boss key in Earth Temple but it would make it impossible to get the Mirror Shield if we use it anyway.

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2010, 11:10:58 AM »
@Marcus
Thanks for the subscription. Don't give up on it Marcus. If you give up on it then that will be one less person helping in the effort. I could really use your help on this. ;D
Your english is very good. Noticed you're from Sweden.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 11:15:09 AM by Razor »
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Marcus

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2010, 12:14:34 PM »
Thanks. :D
I wont give up. Earlier in this thread I found a comment where you said that some have tried to skip the first 3 dungeons. How? And is it completely impossible to restore the Master Sword early by Wrong Warping to TotG and all that? The Wrong Warp made me confused.

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2010, 12:59:55 PM »
Earlier in this thread I found a comment where you said that some have tried to skip the first 3 dungeons. How? And is it completely impossible to restore the Master Sword early by Wrong Warping to TotG and all that? The Wrong Warp made me confused.
I agree about the confusing wrong warp. Anyway, is it completely possible to restore the Master Sword, I have no doubt (just having some problems getting it to work). After that & the trial skips are finished there's just a few things I need to figure out before making this the best WW speedrun ever:
1. Wrong Warp inside ToG (Hoping Ani or Phazon will help out on this)
2. Ringing the ToG Bell w/out Grappling Hook (No clue on this one)
3. Bombs w/out pirate ship (There's already a theory that you can get them from Gohdan)
4. Get to Ganon w/out hookshot & grappling hook (Needs more consideration, hover would sure be useful)
To be continued...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 01:38:54 PM by Razor »
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Offline MrSparkle

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2010, 02:37:52 AM »
Do frozen enemies count as an unmovable, at least when it comes to ledge clipping? I can't remember if I ever checked...

The current list of unmovables are; Medli, Makar, orbs, stone chus, stuned magtails, Armos statues (lol if someone manages a clip off the large statues), and Tetra...
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2010, 03:10:46 AM »
1. Wrong Warp inside ToG (Hoping Ani or Phazon will help out on this)

I don't know about Ani, but I'm almost 100% positive that this is impossible. To warp into ToG means you have already erected *snicker* the ToG by placing the 3 pearls. Not only that, but the wrong warp demonstrated by Ani doesn't warp to the ToG quadrant and the FF2 wrong warp (if I can ever get it to work again, and trust me I have been trying) isn't possible until after ToG has been completed. You could try getting the fade-in to occur somewhere else and warp from that, but there's no reason to believe that it'd lead to a different quadrant, and as I said before, without the pearl placements warping to ToG quadrent is useless. Unless you know of a different method to wrong warp, I don't think this'll be doable. 3 still interests me. I don't think there is a way into ToG without bombs, but I'd still like to know what happens when Gohdan tries to give you some extra bombs.
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2010, 01:23:16 PM »
Unless you know of a different method to wrong warp, I don't think this'll be doable. 3 still interests me. I don't think there is a way into ToG without bombs, but I'd still like to know what happens when Gohdan tries to give you some extra bombs.
A new method of wrong warp is what I'm trying to figure out & what I need some help on. Marcus and I are currently working on the trial skips so if you could help it would be much appreciated. I'm also curious to see what happens when Gohdan gives you bombs--hopefully the game won't crash--, but as I don't use cheats, I need to find some sort of wrong warp into the ToG (without the pearls). I could really use your help Phazon.
EDIT- Here are some other things I need to add to the list:
5. Deku Leaf & Boomerang Early (Not sure if we can completely skip the Deku Leaf yet. It takes too long to go play through the FW to get the boomerang; if early's not possible, maybe a skip on the Puppet Ganon battle would be possible--would solve the problem of number 4--)
6. (This spot is reserved for fixing any game crashes that may occur in the process of testing)
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2010, 02:33:28 PM »
A great idea just popped into my head. New theory: would it be possible to develop a method to get the fire/ice arrows before the bow? I know that you can get into the fairy island early with cd streaming, but not sure how to activate the fairy cutscene early. This could be a good timesaver in the ToG, but arrises some questions:
1. Would the game also automatically give you the normal arrows too?
2. What all could be skipped?
3. Could this lead to ToG early?
4. Because we don't have the Ballad of Gales, would we be stuck in the island or could we savewarp out?
*5. Crashes? (Hope not.)
Testing needs to be done on this theory. Could lead to ToG early, which would save a lot of time & effort. I'll do my best to get this to work. If anyone finds anything with this leave a reply and post a video on Youtube.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 02:35:04 PM by Razor »
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2010, 01:39:37 AM »
By SDA rules, that CD streaming trick isn't allowed. I don't think you can interfere with the console in any way during a segment. I've tried skipping Puppet Ganon before. I tried a fire arrow on the cauldron from the bottom floor, which would allow me to warp to the top and up to Ganon, but you have to be so damn precise on those cauldrons to open them, that my hope of a stray bit of fire flying through the platform and opening it was optimistic to say the least.
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2010, 12:56:33 PM »
By SDA rules, that CD streaming trick isn't allowed. I don't think you can interfere with the console in any way during a segment. I've tried skipping Puppet Ganon before. I tried a fire arrow on the cauldron from the bottom floor, which would allow me to warp to the top and up to Ganon, but you have to be so damn precise on those cauldrons to open them, that my hope of a stray bit of fire flying through the platform and opening it was optimistic to say the least.
This isn't SDA though, and anyway, wrong warp there might be possible. I like your idea on skipping the Puppet Ganon battle, but like you said, it would take a lot of percision, and--to add to the problems--you'd be dodging PG's fists as well. I really like the idea though, and hope to get around to working with it. If you can get it right will you post a video? :)
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2010, 02:14:14 PM »
I gave up on it, because I'm pretty sure it's impossible. I couldn't make a vid anyway, because my DVD-recorder hasn't been working for months now.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd want my run to be on SDA as well as here, so I follow the rules from there since there really aren't any rules of ZSR to follow (that I know of?).
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2010, 05:13:33 PM »
I gave up on it, because I'm pretty sure it's impossible. I couldn't make a vid anyway, because my DVD-recorder hasn't been working for months now.
Like I told Marcus, don't give up on it. In the world of ZSR, you're one of the brightest minds we've got. I'm really busy with the trial skips so if you could work on this it would be extremely appreciated.
EDIT- Adding these to the list:
5. Skip Puppet Ganon Battle (Phazon said that he had an idea on this that sounded very useful. Skipping this not only saves time, but also alows for the boomerang to be skipped)
6. (Reserved for crashes)
7. Deku Leaf Early (It would save a lot of time and skip some long cutscenes to get this early--I'm thinking an RBA-like method--. Until I can prove that the DL is 100% skippable, this will remain on the list)
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2010, 11:44:47 PM »
In the world of ZSR, you're one of the brightest minds we've got.

Knowing me, I'd say that's a pretty bad insult to everyone else here xD. Anyway, I don't know what you want me to do. When I get an idea about something I'll test it, but in this case I was convinced that it just wasn't possible. At the moment I'm still trying to get the FF2 fade-in to happen again so I can try and WW off it. I never understood RBA so I don't really know what you mean there. I don't even know what RBA stands for <_<

A fairly pointless little trick - If you let the water rise all the way against HK and stand in a certain spot, you drop in and out of the water every frame (if you zoom in the game lags pretty noticeably).
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #101 on: April 14, 2010, 03:19:25 PM »
I never understood RBA so I don't really know what you mean there. I don't even know what RBA stands for <_<
RBA stands for reverse bottle adventure. In OoT, what it basically did was when you had a certain item on a certain slot--normally a trading quest item on the right c slot-- and you had a bottle on B, and caught something in that bottle--normally a fish or bugs-- it would mess up the item codes and alow you to suddenly have a random item--depending on what was the certain item on that certain slot. What I ment by getting the deku leaf with a "RBA-like" method, is by having an item on a certain slot, x,y or z, and/or pressing the right combination of buttons--presumably during the beginning cutscene-- it would alow you to start the game with an item you're not supposed to have--hopefully the deku leaf and fully restored Master Sword ;D--. The only problem being that there are over 400 different button combinations and I have no idea which leads to the DL & MS. Now, what I want you to do is try to find how to do any of the glitches on my previous lists and/or any other glitches that you think will come in handy in the above processes.
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Offline Phazon

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2010, 12:15:49 AM »
Alright, but I don't know how the bottle is set to B in OoT, so I don't know how I'd go about doing it in WW.
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Offline MrSparkle

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #103 on: April 15, 2010, 08:19:53 PM »
Indeed, that water ledge splash effect needs a video...
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Offline Narcissa Wright

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #104 on: April 15, 2010, 10:13:54 PM »
What I ment by getting the deku leaf with a "RBA-like" method, is by having an item on a certain slot, x,y or z, and/or pressing the right combination of buttons--presumably during the beginning cutscene-- it would alow you to start the game with an item you're not supposed to have--hopefully the deku leaf and fully restored Master Sword ;D--. The only problem being that there are over 400 different button combinations and I have no idea which leads to the DL & MS.

I like your enthusiasm but this sounds to me like pure science fiction

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #105 on: April 16, 2010, 04:13:30 PM »
Alright, but I don't know how the bottle is set to B in OoT, so I don't know how I'd go about doing it in WW.
In OoT the bottle is set to B by stealing the fishing rod from the pond, and then pausing and unpausing, then fimally back flipping and pressing the fish/bugs in a bottle then B before you hit the ground. I'm hoping that in WW though that a bottle on B won't be necessary. I know Ani found how to remain swordless after FF.
Indeed, that water ledge splash effect needs a video...
Not quite sure what you're talking about here. Hope that you can help to clear this up. Sounds like a video would be nice. :)
 
I like your enthusiasm but this sounds to me like pure science fiction
I am very optimistic on this theory. But, I strongly believe that this is far from science fiction. I just need some testing to be done on it, as I am currently occupied with the trial skips.
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Offline Externalist

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #106 on: April 16, 2010, 06:05:31 PM »
I like your enthusiasm but this sounds to me like pure science fiction

Agreed. RBA is a 'Game Bug' specifically for Ocarina of Time. Game bugs appear when there is a programatical error in some place that the game programmer wasn't able to spot before the final release. The chances of WW to have exactly the same 'Bug' is very low. I would use my time on finding other bugs than testing out every button combination in the hopes of finding a nonexistant RBA. Just my 2 cents...

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2010, 06:00:06 AM »
Agreed. RBA is a 'Game Bug' specifically for Ocarina of Time. Game bugs appear when there is a programatical error in some place that the game programmer wasn't able to spot before the final release. The chances of WW to have exactly the same 'Bug' is very low. I would use my time on finding other bugs than testing out every button combination in the hopes of finding a nonexistant RBA. Just my 2 cents...
I'm not saying exactly the same bug. I'm suggesting something similar and just using RBA as a refferance. And about your "using your time on finding other bugs than testing out every button combinations in hope of finding a nonexistant RBA", well, if you want to look for other bugs that's fine. The will probably be something small that will be useless in 6 months to a year, it's been proven. If me, or somebody else, doesn't test the button combinations--which is a very tedious process-- then we miss the chance to discover a huge break in WW. 8)
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Offline Majora MIM

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2010, 07:12:59 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxfkb83AG8

While serching for oob in ganon's tower, I found this. The left side seems quiet different but I haven't try.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 07:17:07 AM by Majora MIM »
sorry for my soooo bad english.


TLOZ: complete     AOL: complete     ALTTP(GBA): 100%
LA(DX): complete   OOT/MQ/3D: 100%    MM: 100%
OOA/OOS: 100%    FS:100%   TWW:100%
 FSA: 100%     TMC: 100%     TP: 100%
PH: 100%        ST: 100%         SS: ???

Offline MrSparkle

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #109 on: April 20, 2010, 09:39:09 AM »
Nice stuff.
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Offline Majora MIM

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sorry for my soooo bad english.


TLOZ: complete     AOL: complete     ALTTP(GBA): 100%
LA(DX): complete   OOT/MQ/3D: 100%    MM: 100%
OOA/OOS: 100%    FS:100%   TWW:100%
 FSA: 100%     TMC: 100%     TP: 100%
PH: 100%        ST: 100%         SS: ???

Cerpin_Taxt

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #111 on: April 20, 2010, 10:44:04 AM »
I do have a wrong warp theory. It is possible to get the Ghost ship Chart very early in the game, right after beating Forbidden Woods. Klyde has a video of it. Try to Wrong Warp using the ghost ship and a bomb taken out via Tingle Tuner Stop-n-Swap. I don't quite have the patience to test this, but I may anyway. :)

Razor...please do research before posting stuff. You're just making yourself look bad :(

At least you have a fervor for testing. Just please learn how to do it a little better...

Majora MM, get on the IRC :P I wanna talk to you.

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #112 on: April 20, 2010, 01:21:27 PM »
Razor...please do research before posting stuff. You're just making yourself look bad :(

At least you have a fervor for testing. Just please learn how to do it a little better...
What do you think I'm doing right now? I always test before just saying things. I hope to really crack down on the trial skips today, I'll laugh when I get them to work. 8) Anyway, Thanks for the wrong warp reference.  :) Yes, I have seen Klyde's video, it's a genius method.
@Majora MIM:
Thanks for all the hard work you're doing, it's really a great help. It looks like you're on the brink of finding something, I sure hope that you do. ;D
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Cerpin_Taxt

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2010, 09:35:22 AM »
...if you really believe this will work go find bottle dupe in WW

Without that there's no way to get bottle B except through black magic

You could never RBA normal items even in OOT

Windwaker is not OOT

You cannot skip the boomerang unless you find Early ToG, or a way to beat Kalle Demos without it

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #114 on: April 22, 2010, 01:03:51 PM »
...if you really believe this will work go find bottle dupe in WW

Without that there's no way to get bottle B except through black magic

You could never RBA normal items even in OOT

Windwaker is not OOT

You cannot skip the boomerang unless you find Early ToG, or a way to beat Kalle Demos without it

I don't believe that a bottle on B will be necessary. But, if it is, I'll try to find a way. I know that Windwaker isn't OoT, and that's what makes the ideas probable. About the boomerang skip, I know that ToG early would be the way. I've already commented on this in the past. Haven't got around to testing wrong warp with the Ghost Ship yet. I'll try to get around to it.
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Offline AniMeowzerz

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2010, 03:41:47 PM »
I know that Windwaker isn't OoT, and that's what makes the ideas probable.
Other way around, dude. Because it isn't oot, it's not programed the same way, therefore the same methods won't work. They probably learned from their past programming flaws, so there's no way to really know if the same principles apply (like linking an item slot to another item like RBA does)

What makes your idea of the combination of buttons sound like science fiction is the fact that this is zelda. Zelda has no 'cheat' system, like Sonic or other games, where a combination of buttons would link to a different menu or to a debug area. The only thing zelda has even remotely close (and calling it remotely close is a massive stretch) to something like that is the new game+ aspect like in Zelda 1 and WW with its costume and Hylian translations.
Also, even if it were the case, I wouldn't even consider it a 'breakthrough'. If what you were to say is true about starting off with different items via a combination of buttons, then it was intended by the developers. they literally gave you the tools to do that, which in certain aspects is considered cheating. To me, that would feel the exact same as using a gameshark/AR to do so, which around here is not accepted for runs.


As much as I hate being unsupportive/deconstructive especially when it comes to Wind Waker discoveries, I don't foresee any of these ideas becoming a reality.
RBA stands for Rare Bird Adventure. We call it that because we need to get the blue cucco in order to use it.

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #116 on: April 23, 2010, 01:58:50 PM »
Also, even if it were the case, I wouldn't even consider it a 'breakthrough'. If what you were to say is true about starting off with different items via a combination of buttons, then it was intended by the developers. they literally gave you the tools to do that, which in certain aspects is considered cheating. To me, that would feel the exact same as using a gameshark/AR to do so, which around here is not accepted for runs.


As much as I hate being unsupportive/deconstructive especially when it comes to Wind Waker discoveries, I don't foresee any of these ideas becoming a reality.
I doubt that the game developers would ever have intended such to happen. That's like saying that the game developers can forsee the glitches that are going to arise in new games. And anyway, I don't cheat. I hate AR and gameshark. If I can find a method, I will prove to you that it's not "cheating".
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Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2010, 11:56:27 AM »
I was working on the trial skips today, but after some frustration, I took a break and found something promising. I had always been thinking that it would be great to be able to skip the three goddess statues. In the room before the room where you take them, there are two statues. I found a way to clip one of them through the door, but it doesn't appear on the other side, and, anyways, I was hoping to clip Link through the door. Right now it's more like Phazon's stick glitch, but I'm hoping to clip the door soon with a new theory. I'm not uploading anything yet until I do a bit more testing. Hopefully, the clip is possible.  ;D
Forest Water+Backflip=Gainers?

Marcus

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #118 on: April 25, 2010, 01:24:15 PM »
I was working on the trial skips today, but after some frustration, I took a break and found something promising. I had always been thinking that it would be great to be able to skip the three goddess statues. In the room before the room where you take them, there are two statues. I found a way to clip one of them through the door, but it doesn't appear on the other side, and, anyways, I was hoping to clip Link through the door. Right now it's more like Phazon's stick glitch, but I'm hoping to clip the door soon with a new theory. I'm not uploading anything yet until I do a bit more testing. Hopefully, the clip is possible.  ;D
I don't see how that would allow us to skip the 3 goddess statues or save any time at all.

Offline Razor

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Re: WW Tricks and Glitches Discussion
« Reply #119 on: April 25, 2010, 01:41:19 PM »
I don't see how that would allow us to skip the 3 goddess statues or save any time at all.
It's only a theory, and the idea is that the room unloaded might have some different aspects to it. For instance, the light warp thing might be activated.
Forest Water+Backflip=Gainers?