Author Topic: BiT, Hyrule, and Breaking the Hyrule Barrier (Theories)  (Read 3949 times)

Offline jack5mikemotown

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BiT, Hyrule, and Breaking the Hyrule Barrier (Theories)
« on: August 25, 2015, 01:23:37 PM »
Iíve been looking into ideas to help us skip one of the 3 Hyrules, particularly Hyrule 1. And Iíve come up with some ideas that I don't think have been looked into very much. Iím aware that some of this stuff is already known, but I've included some stuff for comprehensivity.


-BiT file is identical to a new game save after recieving control of link
   -Among other things, it sets cutscene state back to 1
-All items and flags triggered in BiT are saved if you save the BiT file
-The only difference between an area in BiT and that area otherwise is that loading zones donít work. (Some softlock and others play the intro cutscene)
-All areas in BiT are set to the first possible playable state.
-The only thing stopping us from using BiT to access and make progress in certain areas we couldnít otherwise, is that fact that loading zones softlock, and all saves spawn us on Outset Island.
-If we were theoretically able to make progress in Hyrule 1 in BiT, it would carry over when we saved the game (and we could see our ďprogressĒ next time we went to Hyrule)

This means that BiT allows us to access Hyrule 1 early, although no progress can be made in that area with the limitations that BiT places on us.

Theoretically, even if we were able to save in Hyrule and reload the file so that it spawned us in Hyrule (with loading zones), it would most likely be useless, since we would not have KoRL (as we donít at the beginning of the game), and therefore, would not be able to leave Hyrule.

If we were somehow able to overcome the barrier of the text KoRL gives us right before we pick up the Master Sword, the game would still load the intro cutscene upon trying to load upper Hyrule castle, taking us out of BiT. Therefore, the only way that accessing Hyrule 1 early via BiT would be useful is if would could A) disable the title screen without having a quadrant to swim across and without have a door to open within the same area, and B) if we were able to reactivate loading zones, so that the cutscene in Upper Hyrule Castle could play that occurs before Link obtains the master sword.

Barrier Triggers:

Of the 4 barrier triggers, only one requires a specific state of hyrule.  That is, the courtyard cutscene requires the Hyrule 2 state while entering Hyrule, so that the courtyard cutscene can play. The courtyard cutscene can only be triggered while entering Hyrule via FF2 and only if the triforce hasnít been completed.  Thus, the completion or lack of completion of Hyrule 1 does not affect the necessary Hyrule 2 triggers for breaking the barrier.

The Master Sword cutscene, as far as Iím aware, can technically be completed in either Hyrule 1 or Hyrule 2 as long as the triforce shards have not been collected. The barrier to pulling the Master Sword in Hyrule 2 is that, because the cutscene ďstateĒ changes before Hyrule 2, trying to activate a cutscene from Hyrule 1 will crash the game. If we were able to stop the game from crashing when pulling the Master Sword in Hyrule 2, we could skip Hyrule 1 alltogether, and skip anything before Hyrule 1 that isn't required for completing the rest of the game.

The Tetra turning into Zelda cutscene can be triggered in either Hyrule 2 or 3 state, regardless of what has or hasnít been completed up to activating that cutscene (as long as youíve entered Hyrule via FF2).

As far as I can tell, the Darknut fight can be activated when entering Hyrule through any means, as long as the triforce shards have been collected. I have not tested entering Hyrule via ToG with the triforce shards, but I would imagine it would crash the game upon playing the cutscene where we find Zelda has been kidnapped by Ganon, as that cutscene requires cutscene state 2 and we are still in state 1.

This means that in order to activate all 4 triggers we need to:

-Pull the master sword before obtaining the triforce, while the cutscene state is set to ď1Ē
-Activate the courtyard cutscene by entering Hyrule 2 without having obtained the Triforce
-Activate the Tetra turning into Zelda cutscene by entering Hyrule via FF2 (which can be activated regardless of the state of the rest of the triggers)
-Collect all the triforce shard after activating the first 2 triggers (Collecting the triforce shards can be done regardless of Hyruleís state, but messes with the courtyard cutscene and Master Sword triggers if done before them).

Technically, this means the only required method of entering Hyrule is Hyrule 2 via FF2, as this is the only way of entering Hyrule that is required for activating some of the triggers. Unless we find a way to store a triforce shard until after the courtyard cutscene, Hyrule 2 and 3 are both mandatory. Unless we find a way to pull the Master Sword after FF2 without the game crashing, Hyrule 1 is mandatory. Iíve seen people look into trying to skip Hyrule 3, but I havenít seen people look into trying to skip Hyrule 1 or get there early. I believe this avenue needs to be explored, even if it seems unlikely that it will work.

Theories for Skipping Hyrule 1/Hyrule 1 Early:

In order to skip Hyrule 1, we need to find a way to pull the Master Sword in Hyrule 2 without crashing the game. In order to do this, we would most likely need a way to set the cutscene state back to 1 after FF2.

In order to get to Hyrule 1 and pull the Master Sword early, we need find a way to disable the title screen in BiT (or bypass KoRLís lines of text before pulling the Master Sword) and we need to find a way to re-enable loading zones in BiT (so that that full Master Sword cutscene, which is split between 2 loading zones, can play). Alternatively, we need to find a way to have KoRL while in BiT and have hit the trigger that allows us to save and not be warped back to Outset (although I find this alternative particularly unlikely).

As unlikely as it may seem that any of this would be found, I donít believe weíve looked enough into these specific things to say that itís impossible that they will be found. For that reason, Iíve put together everything I have learned in hopes that we can find something useful within these unexplored avenues.

Offline CryZe

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Re: BiT, Hyrule, and Breaking the Hyrule Barrier (Theories)
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2015, 04:42:58 AM »
There is no such thing as a Cutscene State. Read my other thread about the Layer System if you want to.

The problem is that there's the following warps to Hyrule in the game:
- From FF3 if you have the flag for it (as often as you want)
- From completing TotG (once)
- From completing FF2 (once)
- From TotG if you have the fully charged Master Sword + all Triforce Pieces (as often, as you want)

Assuming there's no Layer Glitch that we can abuse, we need to take 3 warps. We can't take the FF3 warp though, cause then we could already complete the game at any point in time.
This leaves us with 3 warps. If you want to do a major sequence break, you'd have to skip either the completing TotG or the completing FF2 one and use the TotG + Triforce Pieces multiple times. Having all the Triforce Pieces prevents us from getting into Hyrule 1 or 2 though, meaning that we can't possibly complete all of the Hyrule Flags. Therefore it's impossible unless you have some kind of RBA to set flags or a layer glitch in Hyrule.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 04:58:55 AM by CryZe »

Offline jack5mikemotown

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Re: BiT, Hyrule, and Breaking the Hyrule Barrier (Theories)
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 01:36:24 PM »
There is no such thing as a Cutscene State. Read my other thread about the Layer System if you want to.

Of course. For lack of a better term (I'm not really sure what the term is) I'm talking about the fact that after entering helmaroc's lair in FF2, all cutscenes before that crash, just like entering a cutscene from after helmaroc's lair before you've entered it causes the game to crash. I'm not quite sure, but my understanding is this isn't the same thing as the layer system.

Offline CryZe

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Re: BiT, Hyrule, and Breaking the Hyrule Barrier (Theories)
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 03:25:05 PM »
Oh yeah, we call that the "Animation Set". We don't really know how it's actually called, the game doesn't refer to it as anything, except it just being just another flag. We know it influences the animations though, so we just went with Animation Set.