Author Topic: MM3D: Questions & Answers  (Read 57692 times)

Offline benstephens1000

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MM3D: Questions & Answers
« on: April 09, 2015, 04:39:55 AM »
Post questions about speedrunning, glitches, theories, etc. and hopefully someone more knowledgeable on that topic will be able to get back to you shortly.

PLEASE POST QUESTONS HERE INSTEAD OF MAKING A NEW THREAD!!! This really helps to keep the forums clean and neat!

Also it is prefers that questions be placed here instead of the Tricks and Discoveries thread considering that thread gets cluttered enough as it is.

Thank you
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Offline BigHairyFart

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 02:59:11 PM »
Do we know why Gibdo BA relies on some invisible timer?
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Offline reidenlightman

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 05:10:05 PM »
Do we know why Gibdo BA relies on some invisible timer?

It has to do with the way MM3D uses its own internal timer. It's a 64 bit timer, and as like most timers, it constantly writes bytes to a certain address, and at certain points, it writes to certain bytes that, when paired with Gibdo BA, causes weird crud to happen. This is as much as I know about it.
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Offline benstephens1000

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 03:47:31 AM »
I'm not actually sure why BA relies on the timer. A good person to ask might be Keeta because as far as I'm aware, it works very similarly, if not exactly the same as how BA works with the games internal timer on N64.
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Offline gamestabled

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2015, 02:59:06 PM »
Basically, when you do BA, you are writing in the values for the Hot Spring Water to unintended locations in the game's memory. The first chunk of numbers that the HSW writes is the time that you caught the HSW, based on a timer that starts counting up from when you started the game. So, by having the game on for different amounts of time, it writes different values and causes different results. EDIT: Oh, and it writes that timer because that's how it's supposed to do the math to know when to cool the HSW.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 03:00:48 PM by gamestabled »
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Offline reidenlightman

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 09:38:31 PM »
Does anybody have a consistent way of Ikana early without triple sword clip? I seem to only get it 1 in 10 times, and the only so-called guide I found did a crap job explaining the inputs.
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Offline gabyelnuevo

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 07:21:43 AM »
Does anybody have a consistent way of Ikana early without triple sword clip? I seem to only get it 1 in 10 times, and the only so-called guide I found did a crap job explaining the inputs.

Nope, is either TSC for consistent method or be lucky to get the 1-framer trick first try =P

Offline benstephens1000

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 10:33:16 AM »
That trick is really just one that you need to aquire muscle memory for. It's best if you hit A just a little before landing and target at the apex of your pound. It's all about that timing.
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Offline bobthegiraffemonkey

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2015, 01:03:33 PM »
Does anybody have a consistent way of Ikana early without triple sword clip? I seem to only get it 1 in 10 times, and the only so-called guide I found did a crap job explaining the inputs.

Go to the corner between right side of the rock and the wall, and target the rock (as human). Sidehop left, roll twice, sidehop right, roll, backfip (keep holding back or you won't make it up). It's not too bad to jump up without a setup, but I made one anyway. Fun fact: I checked my setup to post and went there during the day, apparently the real chus will knock you OOB at that corner.

Offline demolition14

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2015, 05:06:15 AM »
Mashing A when Goron Link is going upwards works well with me, get it about 1 in 3 tries.
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Offline reidenlightman

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2015, 12:33:40 PM »
Go to the corner between right side of the rock and the wall, and target the rock (as human). Sidehop left, roll twice, sidehop right, roll, backfip (keep holding back or you won't make it up). It's not too bad to jump up without a setup, but I made one anyway. Fun fact: I checked my setup to post and went there during the day, apparently the real chus will knock you OOB at that corner.

Thanks. It really works. Sure, it might only save me around 20 seconds, but that's a lot in speedrun time, every second counts, and it will be more consistent so I'll be losing fewer runs to this part.

Question

How much faster can any language be compared to any other? As far as I'm concerned, all text boxes can be instant by rapidly pressing b then a when the box appears. This only exception would be certain giants' text boxes where it intentionally appears character by character.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 09:32:47 AM by reidenlightman »
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Offline Tailsko

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2015, 07:07:27 PM »
Recently transferred everything to my New 3DS JP Model. Micro SDHC I am using SanDisk Extreme Plus Class 10 micro SDHC 16GB 80MB/s. (I have no clue if going for 95mb/s read and 90mb/s write speed will do me any good). I am noticing a lot more slowdowns with the 3D on. It could be my micro sdhc from a bad batch. Formatted everything and still lag with 3D on. More noticeable in Gyorg's Boss room. Can anyone confirm this? Would going for a different micro sdhc make a difference? (Game is digital. I noticed this also on Pokemon X digital, just random lag spikes).

Offline demolition14

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 05:11:15 PM »
This slowdown is happening to a bunch of other people, notably in the pokemon games. It is happening to MM3D, probably because the game was developed with the c-stick in mind as opposed to the new hardware, so slowdowns with the new face tracking 3d is common, it is not from your micro sdhc.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 05:13:46 PM by demolition14 »
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Offline weckar

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 03:35:03 PM »
Ack, wish I had seen this sooner. The "Ask Questions" tag on the top thread threw me off. Sorry about that, hate to be a bother.

Offline demolition14

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2015, 11:17:35 AM »
How do you do Zora ledge clips? And also how do you skip the Ikana castle with one?
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Offline gymnast86

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2015, 10:34:14 PM »
Ledge clips are done by grabbing a hanging on to a ledge and then targeting on the same frame. To skip Ikana Castle, you simply need to let go of the ledge that zora link clipped into and then press B to do a jump attack which will recoil zora link back really far. Once you hit the ground after a couple of seconds, Do like 2 sidehops to the right, walk forward 5 steps, and then keep sidehopping until you reach the loading zone. If you get lost you can reference the castle which is above link to guide you to where you need to go.

Offline reidenlightman

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2015, 08:44:16 PM »
I just submitted my best time, and the first run I recorded (and completed). Was wondering if there's a typical amount of time I should wait before expecting it to be verified (if it can be). I'm pretty sure it's verifiable since the 3DS and timer are on camera 99% of the time.

Also, how much time could French save over English? I mean, all the text can be made instant save for a few Giants text boxes. But those seem to all be rigged to take the same amount of time.
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Offline weckar

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2015, 01:26:27 PM »
When it comes to Action Swap, I only ever see it used for 'fire arrows'. Are there any other items that could be ASed? What would be the determining factors?

Offline benstephens1000

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2015, 01:44:09 PM »
You can do deku spear (infinitely long deku stick), store a ground jump, something weird with playing sounds which crashes the game I think, and I think that's pretty much it.
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Offline Pedalpowertoast

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2015, 10:41:10 PM »
Also, how much time could French save over English? I mean, all the text can be made instant save for a few Giants text boxes. But those seem to all be rigged to take the same amount of time.
It's a bit more complicated, some languages do this differently by using more than one letter for example. I timed the 4th Giant text a while ago which is where this whole damn language switching thing started... No one has bothered to test this further yet, but it should probably be done soon.

If you're interested about the 4th Giant timings I did, the order from slowest to fastest was:

Spanish (1:23)
English (1:20)
French (1:13)
German and Italian (1:11) (These are PAL exclusive languages and 99% of the runners are from US...)
Japanese (1:09)

Iirc I timed it from the remains grab to landing to ikana after the giants cs.

Despite English being slower, I still use it over Italian and German, just to not gain unfair advantage over others due to me living in Europe. Of course Japanese don't have this option, but you can just add or remove ~15 seconds to roughly convert times between them. It's a pain in the ass to swap languages on the 3DS and you get Spotpass news everytime you do that... Of course there are still those people who call it "free time save" just so they can get WR easier for giving themselves 10 secs more room for mistakes -_- (Essentially getting WR with poorer execution)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:45:55 PM by Pedalpowertoast »
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Offline benstephens1000

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2015, 03:15:51 AM »
Please feel free to use whatever language you choose and ignore Toast's whining. All languages are official versions of the game and banning specific languages would be the silliest thing I've ever heard. If you have a fast version, please feel free to use it. Perhaps spotpass notification are annoying, but what wold be really annoying is having to convert times and say your run is faster than it really is. Using a slow version on purpose is your choice, but you will get no sympathy or agreement from me.
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Offline demolition14

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2015, 08:00:03 AM »
I'm finalising the low% route and I have 2 questions: can you use fire/light arrows wothout the quiver, and does losing your sword or shield count towards reducing the number of items in low%?
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Offline gabyelnuevo

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2015, 08:24:17 AM »
I don't know about low% rules and stuff, but i do know that using special arrows without quiver won't do anything, cuz you don't have a quiver lol, you won't have any arrows or buy/get any arrow drop :P

Offline weckar

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 01:32:00 AM »
Is there a known way to overcome/override the "your notes echoed far..." message you'll get in certain places when playing certain songs? SoSing from places where you shouldn't could be a boon to me.

Offline reidenlightman

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2015, 11:16:18 PM »
Is there a known way to overcome/override the "your notes echoed far..." message you'll get in certain places when playing certain songs? SoSing from places where you shouldn't could be a boon to me.

Where would this be relevant? I could only think of a few places this would matter. Milk Bar, Fishing hole (you wouldn't be here during a speedrun), certain buildings, Igos Du Ikana's throne room. It only takes around 10 seconds to get out of there. I doubt any sort of trick like this will be searched for much less actually used. Currently, there are no places in any route that we need to soar from that we can't soar in. We can even soar from inside bomb shop and inside the Ikana circus house.
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Offline weckar

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2015, 05:42:42 AM »
Top of clock tower comes to mind. I'm not sure what the effect would be; but knowing my RAM that timer is going to set SOMETHING off if it ends on a different map.

Offline Masterluigisw

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2015, 01:10:12 PM »
How do you do epona clip into milk bar? I CAN CLIP BUT CANT GET LINK TO TURN TOWARD LOADING ZONE. I tried holding forward and nothing.

This is the only trick I cant do in this game. Frustrating!

Offline gamestabled

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2015, 02:20:04 PM »
You need to target in the direction you want link to turn before doing the trick and hold target the whole time, so when he gets off epona he turns around to keep targetting in that direction
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Offline Masterluigisw

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2015, 02:59:17 PM »
You need to target in the direction you want link to turn before doing the trick and hold target the whole time, so when he gets off epona he turns around to keep targetting in that direction

I cant beleive so simple... got it thanks.

Offline Syarris

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2015, 03:52:57 PM »
Regarding the Any% route, can someone explain to me the "Second Circle Pad Pro Route Diversion" aspect of it? I assume it's faster because of the different milk bar clip so I guess I'm asking how does using the circle pad pro change the way it's performed and why can't it be done without it. And any other tricks where it might be helpful/different.
I apologize if I missed a link where it's already explained  :-\

Thanks in advance!

Offline demolition14

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2015, 07:08:48 PM »
you can use a CPP or a new 3DS. they both cause enough lag from coming back to the home menu that every time you mash home you get 1 frame advances while not using a CPP is inconsistent and would generally lead to 2-4 frames of advancing and consecutive mask jumping uses multiple frame perfect inputs.
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Offline SaintMadeOfPlaster

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2015, 12:18:09 PM »
Does anyone have a more detailed explanation of when to catch Spring Water with the Gibdo Bottle in order to wrong warp?

The only two numbers I can find are 2:30-2:45 and 6:30-6:45 after you start the game. Is there a recurring pattern or any other way to figure out any other times to catch the water? I've tried catching it at 8:30-8:45 to see if it works every two minutes, but it didn't seem to work (unless I did something wrong).

Offline gymnast86

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2015, 04:02:23 PM »
This pastebin has a list of times that are possible http://pastebin.com/2His5bgK

The cycles occur roughly every 80 seconds (a little more than 80 as the more cycles occur, the further back the time to catch hot spring water is pushed)
You can start this timer at the same time as you open your game, and it'll tell you when you catch hot spring water for 0th day warps and wrong warps: http://arkazoth.com/cycle-timer/

Offline BassSlap

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2015, 02:02:48 PM »
Okay guys so I picked up mm3d again as I'm moving and I'll be on a lot of trains. I had a thought that if we could activate the event of the majoras mask face things in the dungeons that teleport you right to the boss it could skip so much time. I was doing stone tower and whilst the tower was upside down I hookshoted onto the chest above the teleporter and boom it activates. I have a video proving it as I have the teleporter activated but no mask. I'm almost at the stone tower on a second save that I'll be using for testing to see if I can replicate it.

Offline gymnast86

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2015, 07:01:48 PM »
The face that teleports you to the boss room gets activated by simply being in the boss room, even if you haven't beaten the boss. So if you go in, die, then come back, you can activate it.

Offline reidenlightman

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2016, 07:14:47 PM »
The face that teleports you to the boss room gets activated by simply being in the boss room, even if you haven't beaten the boss. So if you go in, die, then come back, you can activate it.

that's interesting in itself. If there was a way to trick the game into thinking you've already entered it (if only some sort of BA could do it), then this would be a possible massive time saver for Stone Tower Temple. Definitely wouldn't be worth it for woodfall since you're there before any BA is possible or convenient or for Snowhead or Great Bay since we can WW into the boss rooms.
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Offline DrkHLT

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2016, 06:14:30 AM »
Does song storage work in v1.1? I tried to do it but each time I go through a loading zone the text box gets canceled. I'm using v1.1 EUR (v1.1 was already in the game card when I bought it).

Edit: After posting I got it to work. All songs work as they should whwn doing song storage but SoT because its text box gets cancelled through the screen transition. Weird...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 10:38:31 AM by DrkHLT »

Offline Zoro

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2016, 11:21:26 AM »
Can we have a more specific explanation for Extended Hookshot? Since it's so important in the run, not understanding the trick perfectly results in potentially losing a ton of explosives. Particularly with the shielding two bombs method, what's the timing for it? It just says on the page "let go of shield as the first bomb explodes and then the view button a tad bit later," but what's the actual frame you should let go of view and shield on? I'd rather be able to buffer a few times to get the right timing than panic if I miss it without pause buffering and lose two bombs and possibly some health. Sorry if there's a youtube video with the bomb frames on it that I missed, I just can't find one.  :P


P.S. I was practicing the new any% route, and how am I supposed to dupe the red potion over nuts in the Curiosity shop or trading post? How do i get it into my hands without drinking it? Trying to give it to the curiosity shop guy just puts it away afterwards.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 08:31:05 PM by Zoro »

Offline DrkHLT

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2016, 09:25:24 AM »
Can we have a more specific explanation for Extended Hookshot? Since it's so important in the run, not understanding the trick perfectly results in potentially losing a ton of explosives. Particularly with the shielding two bombs method, what's the timing for it? It just says on the page "let go of shield as the first bomb explodes and then the view button a tad bit later," but what's the actual frame you should let go of view and shield on? I'd rather be able to buffer a few times to get the right timing than panic if I miss it without pause buffering and lose two bombs and possibly some health. Sorry if there's a youtube video with the bomb frames on it that I missed, I just can't find one.  :P
I don't think it is necessary to pause buffer the part of letting go the shield and tap the view button, the frame window is pretty big. Just release the shield after the first bomb explodes and press the view button one after the other. For me the difficult part of it is to drop the bombs at the right time, I always seem to be to late in dropping the second bomb. However if you prefer buffering, you can try it despite of being slower.
P.S. I was practicing the new any% route, and how am I supposed to dupe the red potion over nuts in the Curiosity shop or trading post? How do i get it into my hands without drinking it? Trying to give it to the curiosity shop guy just puts it away afterwards.
To do the curiosity shop dupe you have to sell the red potion and then press the item menu at the exact frame (there are videos to see which frame it is) and then exchange the bottle for the item you want. You can also use collection delay explained in the original mm page in zeldaspeedruns. If you fail the bottle dupe you can get a fish in trading post which you can sell to try again.

Hope it helps.

Offline Zoro

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Re: MM3D: Questions & Answers
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2016, 06:50:22 PM »
Does anyone have the pastebin for an up to date no wrong warps route with ehs and flower sliding and whatnot? I feel like this should be in the leaderboards too, since it seems pretty common. Also, after seeing iwabi's video on the Great Bay BK skip, I tried to replicate something similar in getting to light arrows early in STT. My line of thinking was that the EHS will pull link to an object at any distance as long as you hit it, and all rooms and objects are loaded when you enter a dungeon, so we should technically be able to hit the chest surrounded by flames just outside the Garo fight, skipping the first half of Ikana, with just the right angle and hight adjustment. Is this thinking correct, since I tried hitting the chest to the room on the right of the entrance, with the water and sun block, and I wasn't able to hit it. Do object's not stay loaded in the map?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 05:48:14 PM by Zoro »