Author Topic: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?  (Read 8135 times)

Offline mzxrules

  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 923
  • Wrong warp expert
Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« on: February 26, 2015, 09:02:08 AM »
Can I get some rules for Glitchless so that I can add it to the Leaderboards?

Edit: I guess 100% as well while I'm at it. Global rules too (like when timing starts/end)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 09:08:41 AM by mzxrules »
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline Lilysol

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 14
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 01:14:44 PM »
We now have the bomber notebook stamps to add to 100%, which wasn't in the original Majora's Mask.

I personally vote to skip fishing stamp completion in 100%, unless we want to sink hours into standing next to a pond twice in an otherwise exciting run.

Offline Pedalpowertoast

  • Site Editor
  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 508
  • I'm an artist :O
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 02:52:18 PM »
My take on 100% is that it should be the same as on console. Collect everything that stays over Song of Time, which includes the fish entries you get upon getting one. While at first glance it would feel annoying, I'd say it'd be interesting to come up with fishing strats which is a pretty new thing to Zelda. It's also an interesting change of pace that some might not like, but I personally find it interesting as it's one of the new major changes in the "remaster" which makes it more different from console 100%. One thing I don't want is to have the definition be "Everything that stays over Song of Time except fishing", because then people can argue that if fishing isn't part of it, then why should Map and Compass be? It would go downhill from there.

We've been slipping away with 100% definitions a lot, just so they can be "fun" to run. I get it if its something like having "complete rollgoal 100%" as part of the TP 100% definition, that would be hell. Alternatively for MM3D you could change the definition to "All notebook stamps" instead of everything staying over SoT. And Lilysol just asking, you call a run where you get slapped in the face with a 5 second notification every 5 minutes exciting? Maybe it's for you, but that's similar to what I feel about fishing.

I'm pretty confident the majority will disagree with me and fishing will get booted out of the definition, but I just wanted to explain my take on it. I'd rather just change the definition to the notebook rather than arbitrary shit like mentioned earlier.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Pedalpowerluigi

Using a slow version on purpose is your choice, but you will get no sympathy or agreement from me.
Lol

Offline DAHgaming

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 4
  • BUT BEN!
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 07:38:25 PM »
It should be everything that stays when you play song of time. The fishes though... That is up to the community to decide. I'll go with there not being a fishing section, but maybe we could make a separate leaderboard for completing the fishing journal the fastest.
Only Ben is the answer, for he is eternal, as is the water he drowned in.

Offline hcbboyhammer12

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 13
  • Link's Financial Advisor
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 08:41:03 PM »
Being a person that has been sort of involved with this game, I say that we do NOT need to complete the Bombers' Notebook, for obvious reasons.

Offline UchihaSasuke

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 361
  • move over Chidori, time to spam infinite Susano'o
    • Youtube Account
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 01:27:27 AM »
the new fishing is gonna be quite a pain to do. i just found out about this and that my file isn't actually 100%.

anyone has a pic of the bomber notebook stamp you get for fishing?

edit:

is this the stamp you get by getting everything in the notebook?

because i got that stamp without doing much fishing (only got 1 fish in each fishing spot)

fishing is as significant as the Cow in OoT now. if they can get away by skipping it, so should we here. or it could be the other way and OoT has to count the Cow now.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 03:29:29 AM by UchihaSasuke »
"Patience is useful in any moment"

Youtube Account 1
Youtube Account 2

Offline Lilysol

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 14
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 03:41:41 PM »
because i got that stamp without doing much fishing (only got 1 fish in each fishing spot)

If you only need one fish to get that, then the fishing hole is probably a fine include (assuming we even include the Bomber's notebook stamp).

The biggest problem is that King Chupa-Chupa and the Great Fairy Fish both take almost an entire cycle to find consistently on their own, and then even just catching them requires another ten or fifteen minutes of line wrangling alone.

Offline benstephens1000

  • Site Editor
  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 477
  • I'm the worst
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 04:31:31 PM »
Are you sure you need fishing to get that stamp? I thought the fishing pond wasn't in the bomber's notebook? My take on 100% at this point is all things you don't lose including the final stamp on the notebook. All fish is dumb because it's not even in your inventory
"tsmart yashichidsf wild dumb bitch" -Isaacordorica 2012

Offline Powerstar9

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 67
  • Bumper of Time
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 04:32:18 PM »
Is there a lot of RNG to fishing? I heard there's some fish that rarely appear and require you wearing certain masks. FD isn't mandatory for the fishing section, is he?
"When I first discovered AS and Turtle Skip, I was like Kreygasm for 2 hours." Me from Anwonu's stream.

Offline Lilysol

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 14
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 06:25:48 PM »
Are you sure you need fishing to get that stamp? I thought the fishing pond wasn't in the bomber's notebook? My take on 100% at this point is all things you don't lose including the final stamp on the notebook. All fish is dumb because it's not even in your inventory
I just tested. It doesn't appear the fishing ponds have an entry in the bomber's notebook, at least nothing I can find without 100%ing the fish so far.

Is there a lot of RNG to fishing? I heard there's some fish that rarely appear and require you wearing certain masks. FD isn't mandatory for the fishing section, is he?
A fair amount. The biggest issues are the two boss fish. It appears you need to spend a major portion of Day 1 and Day 2 fishing to have a decent shot at spawning them, then you need to leave and reenter the fishing pool until both the boss fish and the required bait fish are both spawned. Some fish only spawn with certain masks, and many fish aren't necessarily mask exclusive, but become easier to catch with certain masks on. The boss fish require a large amount of fishing to be done in the current cycle, as well as both the boss fish and their respective bait fish to be spawned at the same time (enjoy reloading the zone a ton). My favorite is the Cuccofish, spawned with Bremen Mask. It's literally a chicken with fins.

Anyways, back on topic. I think it's fair to call 100% "All items that persist through Song of Time". The real question is if we want to include Bomber's Notebook or not. We should get a list of things that are in the Bomber's Notebook that don't necessarily equate to items we can collect. The lottery in west Clocktown comes to mind.

Offline UchihaSasuke

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 361
  • move over Chidori, time to spam infinite Susano'o
    • Youtube Account
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 09:13:53 PM »
talking to the bombers prompts them to tell you about any unfinished events. when you do everything, they no longer give you any extra info. no one directs you ever to the fishing hole so it is safe to say it doesn't do anything to the Bomber's Notebook and you'll have the final stamp even if never go in them.

tomorrow i'll be doin a 100% run so that'll be the best chance to test it.


Anyways, back on topic. I think it's fair to call 100% "All items that persist through Song of Time". The real question is if we want to include Bomber's Notebook or not. We should get a list of things that are in the Bomber's Notebook that don't necessarily equate to items we can collect. The lottery in west Clocktown comes to mind.

i know of a few:

giving a Zora a pictograph of Lulu
the Zora pots minigame
lighting the torches in the Zora Hall
completing the title deed sidequest (awards you rupees)

on the flipside, some events don't do anything even here like this one:

the witch that wants a mushroom for Blue Potions doesn't have an entry so not every little favor counts.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 09:19:22 PM by UchihaSasuke »
"Patience is useful in any moment"

Youtube Account 1
Youtube Account 2

Offline gabyelnuevo

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 66
  • Máscara de La Fiera Deidad
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 04:50:41 AM »
mzxrules idk if you seen this already, but this is the glitchless any% route/some rules http://pastebin.com/Ddkyx5GM
The route is not up to date so there might be need for optimization in some parts of the route :P
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:52:19 AM by gabyelnuevo »

Offline benstephens1000

  • Site Editor
  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 477
  • I'm the worst
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 02:58:19 AM »
At this point, the majority of people have said that the requirements for 100% should be all items that persist through song of time (items, maps, owls, compasses, masks, gear) and all events under the "Completed" section of the bomber's notebook. This second part means that specific steps of events in the notebook are allowed to be skipped as long as the event is categorized as "Complete" for example, it is possible to get the entry "Buried Treasure" (the three graves in ikana graveyard) without ever having talked to the stalchildren that open the Graves and and adding them to your schedule.

Anyone opposed to this definition?
"tsmart yashichidsf wild dumb bitch" -Isaacordorica 2012

Offline Squirelofjustice

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 47
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 09:13:26 AM »
I agree with Ben. Similar to OOT where you skip silver gauntlets but get the gold, it's ok to skip the filler in order to get the end result.

Offline Lilysol

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 14
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 11:09:48 AM »
Anyone opposed to this definition?

I was already under this impression. The Bomber's Notebook completion stamp should really be the only thing that matters.

Also, the list of "menial tasks" that don't reward items we'd already be getting for 100% seems small.

Offline UchihaSasuke

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 361
  • move over Chidori, time to spam infinite Susano'o
    • Youtube Account
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2015, 02:21:46 PM »
also, i can confirm now that the complete stamp in the notebook appears even if you never enter the fishing spots (got the stamp at the end of my run yesterday)
"Patience is useful in any moment"

Youtube Account 1
Youtube Account 2

Offline benstephens1000

  • Site Editor
  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 477
  • I'm the worst
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 08:16:38 AM »
I'm hard at work on the route. I'm gonna link the Google doc here so people can check it out and give suggestions, currently I don't have as much written down as I've actually routed, so I will be updating it up to the point where I am very soon. Basically I have the skeleton of the route but need to fill in some details.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11jkUe9SIbTzlaH-_VB9b5blWBacBj5vmlMUZc0dkNW4/edit?usp=docslist_api

Hit me up with questions and ideas
"tsmart yashichidsf wild dumb bitch" -Isaacordorica 2012

Offline UchihaSasuke

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 361
  • move over Chidori, time to spam infinite Susano'o
    • Youtube Account
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2015, 04:18:19 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooTCG4IqLsg

here's my 100% run. took a while to process since it was a big file (local recording)

(also, i totally forgot it was possible to get the Keg license before doing Snowhead. i think i'll do another run one of these days since my first one had too many mistakes)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 04:20:38 PM by UchihaSasuke »
"Patience is useful in any moment"

Youtube Account 1
Youtube Account 2

Offline Jeville

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 220
  • "special"
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2015, 05:39:31 PM »
This will be of use for the Zora moon trial where you don't need to redo the whole thing after getting the HP (returning to the last door used):

Goron drown warps you to your last entrance in the original, and it can still be done in MM3D (except the area doesn't reload). When you're at an edge, go down to drown by doing quick flicks with the circle pad as your only movement, and be quick to let go when you drown. If done right, you'll be at your last entrance after two drowns. If your last entrance came from an owl warp, the area will reload and you'll be human. When I tried this in the Termina Field grotto from the Great Bay entrance, I respawned out of bounds.

It might have potential for GBT/STT routing.

Offline UchihaSasuke

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 361
  • move over Chidori, time to spam infinite Susano'o
    • Youtube Account
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 03:19:22 PM »
Lottery numbers are set when you create a file, like with the Bomber's code.

i tested by making a file and getting them and then resetting and the numbers were the same when i entered them. that's an automatic time save.

also, when you change the options in the options menu and then copy the file, the options get saved. useful since you can have a file prepared always without the need to set it up.
"Patience is useful in any moment"

Youtube Account 1
Youtube Account 2

Offline UchihaSasuke

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 361
  • move over Chidori, time to spam infinite Susano'o
    • Youtube Account
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 02:31:27 PM »
how do you get the Keg license without Bow and Fire Arrows? HSW didn't work for me.
"Patience is useful in any moment"

Youtube Account 1
Youtube Account 2

Offline benstephens1000

  • Site Editor
  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 477
  • I'm the worst
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2015, 02:44:12 PM »
You can climb up to the right with Zora mask
"tsmart yashichidsf wild dumb bitch" -Isaacordorica 2012

Offline benstephens1000

  • Site Editor
  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 477
  • I'm the worst
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 11:02:14 PM »
The Google doc I posted above is now complete. There are several things I am still unhappy with, but I will work on those. Fox is also working on his own route, so we'll see what happens there soon as well.
"tsmart yashichidsf wild dumb bitch" -Isaacordorica 2012

Offline ToxicPlaysStuff

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 02:42:40 PM »
Question, why do we need the great fairy's mask in glitchless?

Offline ToxicPlaysStuff

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2015, 06:56:11 PM »
mzxrules idk if you seen this already, but this is the glitchless any% route/some rules http://pastebin.com/Ddkyx5GM
The route is not up to date so there might be need for optimization in some parts of the route :P
I created this route also, the one you shared wasn't completable, so I changed it around a bit and came up with this http://pastebin.com/2xx35aHz
I ran through it today, it took me about 4 hours with breaks because I forgot to pause the timer. But I bet that it will end up at about 2 1/2 hours. I'll try to record it tonight or tomorrow night.

Offline Masterluigisw

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 70
    • My Youtube Channel
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 02:08:45 PM »
I'm hard at work on the route. I'm gonna link the Google doc here so people can check it out and give suggestions, currently I don't have as much written down as I've actually routed, so I will be updating it up to the point where I am very soon. Basically I have the skeleton of the route but need to fill in some details.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11jkUe9SIbTzlaH-_VB9b5blWBacBj5vmlMUZc0dkNW4/edit?usp=docslist_api

Hit me up with questions and ideas

for the 5000 rupees: BA Kafei mask, SoS milk road, kill bird with 3 jump slash cancel at night (dies in 5 seconds), backwalk to SCT, disposit, NCT heart piece w Fierce Deity, exit NCT with goron roll, finish with Eenos light arrow strat.

get back kafei mask (fit it wherever its fastest in the route day1), (I'm not sure it's faster... it would be if we find a way out of CT with Fierce Deity!)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 02:27:08 PM by Masterluigisw »

Offline reidenlightman

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 37
  • I think I'm amazing. I'm not.
Re: Rulesets for Glitchless and 100%?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2015, 09:00:34 PM »
To be specific, I'd like to weight in on both 100% and glitchless.

100% ruleset
-Get every heart piece and heart container
-Get every bottle
-Get all stray fairy rewards
-Get maps for all areas
-Get Fierce Deity mask
-Complete the game

I don't want to include the fish since it doesn't appear to be significant to the bomber's notebook and there is quite a hefty load of RNG involved. In what could be over 5 hours in running, we don't want a run to end because RNG was bad at any fishing pole. Making sure to to say get 'every hear piece' instead of getting 20 hearts is important to avoid abuse of glitches or bugs that allow getting duplicate heart pieces. The same terminology was used for Ocarina of Time's skulltulas because of the easy skulltulla duplication glitch.

Since everyone says to get everything you keep when you play song of time, would that include Magic Beans? The icon stays, but you lose what beans you had and they may not ever be used.

Glitchless

This takes a long time to define since there are a lot of glitches. But, to cover the basics, there should be a clear guideline of what IS allowed while on the grey area of what is and isn't a glitch. I've seen people want to include and ban gainers from glitchless runs. And to make it clear, any glitch not listed as either allowed or banned should be considered banned. I for one want to include gainers because it makes for better first cycles.

Allowed

-Gainers
-Bomb long jumping
-Snowhead early with sidehop/backflip
-Goron boosting
-Mask Storage (I know, not a glitch, but just for the sake of clarity)
-Save&restart warping (for earlier Ikana)

Banned
-Wrong Warping
-Bottle Duplication
-Time stop
-Triple Sword Clipping
-Any form of super sliding
-Cutscene skips (Anything that triggers a cutscene but skips it. Avoiding cutscenes by never touching the trigger is allowed if possible.)
-Mask Jump (Jumpslash Animation Cancelling) meaning sewer skip would only happen if that other god-aweful setup is allowed.
-Restricted Items
-Get Item Manipulation
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 09:47:41 PM by reidenlightman »
MM3D, sub 2:15 in only 5 runs. I really need a capture board.