Author Topic: Majora's Mask 3D: Speedrunning Discussion | Research & Discovery | Ask Questions  (Read 114219 times)

Offline hcbboyhammer12

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This is the glitch research and discovery topic! I have also compiled a list of useful links for those wishing to start speed running the game. Note that this list may be subject to change as by my (hcbboyhammer12) discretion or that of the staff members of Zelda Speed Runs.

List of Useful MM 3D Links (I do not own any of these, I just compiled this list):
Official MM 3D ZSR Page: http://zeldaspeedruns.com/mm3d/

Useful Spreadsheets/Documents
Mega MM 3D Glitch List: http://bombch.us/ybP
Alternative Glitch List: http://bombch.us/zHS
MM 3D Wrong Warp Table: http://bombch.us/zCR

Routes
Any% (last updated Feb. 20, 2015): http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/mm3d/route/any
100%: TBD
Glitchless (last updated Feb. 20, 2015): http://pastebin.com/Ddkyx5GM

MM 3D Streamers (in no particular order; If you would like to be added as a MM 3D streamer, please send your Stream info. to me in a PM here on the forums, and I will add you)
Benstephens56: http://www.twitch.tv/benstephens56/
TDutchNick96: http://www.twitch.tv/tdutchnick96/
FullGrownGaming: http://www.twitch.tv/fullgrowngaming/
gabyelnuevo: http://www.twitch.tv/gabyelnuevo/
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 10:11:29 AM by hcbboyhammer12 »

Offline Cluck

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Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 08:53:54 PM »
Little time saver confirmed for the glitchless crowd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg2n5XVxtq0

(tbh it just looks cool)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 09:16:03 PM by mzxrules »

Offline Squirelofjustice

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 09:27:12 PM »
http://youtu.be/-V4_UPAOIOo

For those who like buffering. It's really consistent considering the setups for this method are yolo. This is using a setup found by a youtuber by the name of David E.

Offline mzxrules

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Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline WiseHorror

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 03:17:11 AM »
Alright I'm posting this here even though there's no way to achieve this without cheats and has no apparent effect, I find it interesting.
So I was messing around with my Action Replay PowerSaves and found this curiosity.
I started a new save file and saved at the owl as soon as I was able to walk around Clock Town(1st cycle as Deku Link).
Then I activated all mask cheat and booted the game up again. When I talk to the Bombers as Link they give this ERROR message because I'm supposed to have the Bombers Notebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cerXhpLjU

Offline thestickystickman

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 06:51:11 AM »
Alright I'm posting this here even though there's no way to achieve this without cheats and has no apparent effect, I find it interesting.
So I was messing around with my Action Replay PowerSaves and found this curiosity.
I started a new save file and saved at the owl as soon as I was able to walk around Clock Town(1st cycle as Deku Link).
Then I activated all mask cheat and booted the game up again. When I talk to the Bombers as Link they give this ERROR message because I'm supposed to have the Bombers Notebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cerXhpLjU

I think that's to be expected, they couldn't tell whether you had finished whatever random event they were going to tell you about, so they just spat out a generic error message.

Offline Jeville

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 06:58:37 AM »
If they will never alert you with anything, it would be like the original game. Pretty cool.

Offline CloudMax

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 07:16:11 AM »
I found a way to get Bottle on B as Link and Goron. By doing BA with Links B Bottle you get the same effect as GnS did when doing GIM.
Game thinks you are on the first cycle so you get the first cycle Termina, in gear it says that you only have the ocarina and no other instruments, you can't use any of the instruments.

Start of by getting bottle on B as Goron.
To get Bottle on B as goron you dupe over the ocarina in curiosity shop. (Do collection delay, take out ocarina, put it away). Instead of overwriting the ocarina, it will overwrite Goron Links B item.
Now go to Honey & Darling and use Goron Transformation Storage.
As soon as the minigame starts, put the mask back in your inventory, this will transform you back to Link.
End the minigame.

You will now have Bottle on B as Link.

This would've been much faster if it was possible to do it with Deku Link, as you can easily get bottle on B for deku. (Just ESS dupe when you are out of magic)
The problem is that I haven't found a way to make link take off the deku mask during H&D, so we have to use Goron or Zora instead, and I don't think there's a known way to get Bottle on B as zora.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 07:27:27 AM by CloudMax »

Offline Segfault

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 08:01:04 AM »
MM 3D Wrong Warp table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing

Fantastic job! How did you manage to sort this out? Is it data pulled from the N64 version, or is there a good method for dumping 3DS memory data? It would be nice if we could actually look at what data the gibdo glitch writes so we can find a reliable way to WW.

The glitch is actually really reliable if you do it correctly. Simply kill Goth to turn the map into spring, save and restart the game. Start a timer the second you start the game, load your save, run to the hot spring and wait until the timer reaches 2:10. Fill the glitched bottle, play inverted song of time, fill the bottle again and run out. 10/10
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 04:18:11 PM by Segfault »

Offline WiseHorror

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2015, 11:41:09 AM »
I just found text storage with the previous ERROR message from Bombers that I uploaded I found that it actually stores the text that the Bomber was supposed to say, and so when I talk to the girls dancing the text then pops up. It also pops up when you talk to Tatl. It seems to only work on some NPCs' text. For example, postman and guard don't trigger the text to pop up for some reason.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juJ1V7BQiXU

Offline Jeville

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 01:50:39 PM »
When I talk to the Bombers as Link they give this ERROR message because I'm supposed to have the Bombers Notebook.
Yeah, I think it's also because the bombers don't have 'Where are you from?' dialogue for human Link anymore.

Edit: I came across a music glitch, but don't know how to replicate it yet. Parts of the final 6 hours music was still playing after I went back in time and it meshes with the music of the area I was in. The effect will not go away after changing areas until I reset the game. How this happened is I went back in time after entering the Great Bay Temple for the first time with little time remaining.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 05:43:11 PM by Jeville »

Offline HalfAWalrus

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 07:21:18 PM »
I cannot figure out how timestop works in this game, can someone please explain how it works, and what the inputs are?

Offline GlitchesAndStuff

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2015, 01:03:19 AM »
I found a way to get Bottle on B as Link and Goron. By doing BA with Links B Bottle you get the same effect as GnS did when doing GIM.
Game thinks you are on the first cycle so you get the first cycle Termina, in gear it says that you only have the ocarina and no other instruments, you can't use any of the instruments.

Start of by getting bottle on B as Goron.
To get Bottle on B as goron you dupe over the ocarina in curiosity shop. (Do collection delay, take out ocarina, put it away). Instead of overwriting the ocarina, it will overwrite Goron Links B item.
Now go to Honey & Darling and use Goron Transformation Storage.
As soon as the minigame starts, put the mask back in your inventory, this will transform you back to Link.
End the minigame.

You will now have Bottle on B as Link.

This would've been much faster if it was possible to do it with Deku Link, as you can easily get bottle on B for deku. (Just ESS dupe when you are out of magic)
The problem is that I haven't found a way to make link take off the deku mask during H&D, so we have to use Goron or Zora instead, and I don't think there's a known way to get Bottle on B as zora.

In theory you shouldn't have to BA with link's B button bottle, just catch anything in the bottle and it should also write it to the ocarina 'slot' which triggers 1st cycle shenanigans. But catching HSW in it would also allow us to perform the BA with slot 0 (ocarina) which wasn't possible before :)

I cannot figure out how timestop works in this game, can someone please explain how it works, and what the inputs are?

Do mask storage with a bottled item out (read up on it on ZSR) and then sidehop, while in the air let go of shield & re-hold shield. Try to press the bottle button just as link lands.  If you don't get it, repeat the process (sidehop, Let go of R, hold R, press bottle)

Offline GlitchesAndStuff

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2015, 01:07:03 AM »
Also, the MM3D tricks document in the first post is the old one which got graffiti'd a while back. There's a new nicer one which has continued receiving full updates: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M0k0t16HvEakN8kBkSruca5-QS_whJB0ICq8hlYXtjE/edit#gid=0

Offline Jeville

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2015, 02:56:45 AM »
The old one was fine last night and it was updated with two sheets to differentiate between the old and new glitches. It also had several descriptions more updated than in the new one (FD anywhere is one), and most of the graffiti I've seen were only in the titles with the rest fairly organized but that's all lost now.

I noticed that Epona's position no longer resets with Song of Time. What happens if we manage to place her where she normally can't be, dismount and then reload the area? Will she be back at the ranch, or be completely gone until the song is played?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 02:59:18 AM by Jeville »

Offline SlaskPrask

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D: General Speedrunning| Research & Discovery
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2015, 06:50:58 AM »
Found an easy and consistent setup for sakons hideout early, it uses one bomb but it's consistens so I don't really mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toS4nGxeLuA

Also found an ocean title deed skip, but it cant pe used for hundo because of notebook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n72bOm7984
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 07:23:55 AM by SlaskPrask »

Offline gabyelnuevo

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Idk if you guys already knew, but you can still get the HP from the swamp house without the deku flower, it just need a (not even that precise) goron pound canceling it midair and hold (lets say) up to get ontop of the little roof

Offline Jeville

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In the Wrong Warp docs, the comment for the Goron Shop says sometimes crashes, sometimes warps. Shouldn't we check areas that crash to make sure that they always crash?

Offline SlaskPrask

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Pirates fortress long jump setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwA4KcSKlY

The first slash is really picky, but after that it's easy.

Offline CloudMax

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I found a way to do Restricted Items. The only requirement is being able to go into first person camera.
Have an usable item on I, X, Y or II.  (or use a blank button instead, but blank does not work in some restricted areas like fishing pond)
Enter FPS.
Put an unusable item over the one you could use, it will remain usable while in first person.
Now exit first person camera and directly after click on the item you normally shouldn't be able to use. There's a small window where it's usable (feels like more than one frame, quite easy to do)

Edit: You can steal fishing rod same way you did in OoT3D with this. Use an explosive to get hit while using the rod and just walk out.
No need for soaring or elegy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 05:26:31 AM by CloudMax »

Offline thestickystickman

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I found a way to do Restricted Items. The only requirement is being able to go into first person camera.
Have an usable item on I, X, Y or II.  (or use a blank button instead, but blank does not work in some restricted areas like fishing pond)
Enter FPS.
Put an unusable item over the one you could use, it will remain usable while in first person.
Now exit first person camera and directly after click on the item you normally shouldn't be able to use. There's a small window where it's usable (feels like more than one frame, quite easy to do)

Edit: You can steal fishing rod same way you did in OoT3D with this. Use an explosive to get hit while using the rod and just walk out.
No need for soaring or elegy.

Can't get this to work, could we get a video?

Offline CloudMax

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Can't get this to work, could we get a video?

Do you have the pictograph? I am not sure, but it may be required.


Edit:
Some random pictograph stuff:
You can enter the bubble shooting mode and first person camera at the same time as deku. you'll be in camera mode, but with the target circle on screen. You can take pictures with the target present on them.
When taking pictures in 2D, they can not be displayed in 3D.
If you take the picture in 3D, and display it in 2D, you'll see the left picture. (so things will be seen slightly from the left on the picture)
Entering a flower & going into FPS at the same time time plays the initial burrowing sound, but then it just goes into camera mode like normally.
You can L-Target (and shield) and enter first person at the same time. You'll go into camera mode, but the Return button on the touch screen will be greyed out / disabled.
You can catch something in a bottle and enter first person at the same time. After the dialog is over you go into first person mode.
You can enter grottos (and other loading zones) and enter first person at the same time. You see the pictograph frame thingy on screen as screen fades out..
If you start dancing with kamaro's mask & L-Target and try to enter first person at the same time, the pictograph makes an error sound.
After changing form, pictograph is disabled for a moment.
if you don't have solid ground below you, you can't take out pictograph (like slashing with sword at the very edge at a ledge and attempting to take it out).
after climbing up some ledges, pictograph is disabled for a moment. (related to the point above?)
By timing the pictograph button when going in and out of L-Targeting quickly you can hear the error sound.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:11:32 AM by CloudMax »

Offline hcbboyhammer12

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guys, it would be great if you update the glitch list doc, thanks you sexy people!

Offline gabyelnuevo

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For the RI CloudMax, the easiest way is press L and the button at the same time, fireblaze thought of it and is super easy ;0 amazing find btw CloudMax =)

Offline xdflames

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Toast found this and mentioned it on IRC, I can get it consistently now and made a video with shoddy camera work.

You can timestop without Mask Storage if you do a backflip (side hop probably works) and as soon as you land pull out bottle (with something inside of it) and shield, you can end it by using the look button.

http://youtu.be/teVAyn0i2L0

Tried it on the Stone Tower switch, it will press the switch down but it delays so the block doesn't move until you end timestop.

Offline Jeville

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Impractical powder keg skip for the ranch using Gibdo Mask BA and 0th Day:

1. Save at Mountain Village.

2. Quit the game.

3. Start a timer with a stopwatch as soon as you open the game.

4. Go to the HSW grotto.

5. When the timer reaches 1:25 minutes (up to at least 1:30 is still good), get the HSW in the duped bottle.

6. Immediately after HSW text goes away, mash Ocarina. If you get purple banner when taking it out, you'll have to start over.

7. Play Inverted Song of Time. You're now on 0th Day.

8. Soar out to Milk Road.

It's no longer 0th Day, but the area will be based on it which makes the boulder missing. The boulder will be presented when you reload the area.

If you do this glitch at nighttime, 0th Day must not be past midnight. If you soar out past midnight, the game will propels you to Dawn of the 5th Day (pseudo 1st Day).

0th Day is a 3-Day cycle reset, except the events will not reset. Postman example.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 04:28:10 PM by Jeville »

Offline BigHairyFart

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Pirates fortress long jump setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwA4KcSKlY

The first slash is really picky, but after that it's easy.
Does this only work with Gilded Sword? Because in a run you wouldn't have Gilded at that point, and I know the swords have slightly different hitboxes.
This place is as dead as Link was that one time he forgot to catch a fairy in his bottle.

Offline BALDORF!

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Found some stunlocks on Majora's Incarnation and Wrath, not sure how much faster it is to do it this way, or if at all. Sorry for bad video examples, just trying to get the idea across without having to refilm the fight over and over.

Incarnation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCixd8e_y7c&feature=youtu.be

Wrath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUOh11fzZec&feature=youtu.be

Offline xdflames

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Found some stunlocks on Majora's Incarnation and Wrath, not sure how much faster it is to do it this way, or if at all. Sorry for bad video examples, just trying to get the idea across without having to refilm the fight over and over.

Incarnation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCixd8e_y7c&feature=youtu.be

Wrath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUOh11fzZec&feature=youtu.be
Wrath definitely, but with perfect quick spins against the wall Incarnation is easier to kill, and doesn't require constant mask switching.

Offline Jeville

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Can't get this to work, could we get a video?
Were you trying with the Hookshot/Bow/Deku Stick? Those ones don't work; Link just puts them away.

It was nice seeing transformation forms planting Magic Beans, heh. It never made sense that they can't.

Edit: I found another way for RI without the Pictograph Box; it requires a Deku Flower. Be Deku, equip an usable item then launch. While hovering, replace the usable item with an unusable one and you'll notice the button is not faded. You'll have to land in helicoptering mode and mash the button, because dropping will fade the button. I noticed this detail in the original but didn't get it to work.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 05:43:32 PM by Jeville »

Offline CloudMax

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Were you trying with the Hookshot/Bow/Deku Stick? Those ones don't work; Link just puts them away.

It was nice seeing transformation forms planting Magic Beans, heh. It never made sense that they can't.

Edit: I found another way for RI without the Pictograph Box; it requires a Deku Flower. Be Deku, equip an usable item then launch. While hovering, replace the usable item with an unusable one and you'll notice the button is not faded. You'll have to land in helicoptering mode and mash the button, because dropping will fade the button. I noticed this detail in the original but didn't get it to work.

As mentioned in the chat, this probably works in all scenarios where the items don't change usable because of current state. (I found the pictograph method with that mindset)
also, pretty sure he didn't mean using bow, etc.
you literally can't do it at all without pictograph (ii think thats the reason anyway)
thr usability does not get stuck on slots without it.
(it could be shoot A that causes this state)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 11:37:51 PM by CloudMax »

Offline Jeville

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I'm not sure I follow. The Deku Flower method not working without Pictograph Box? I tried it in the first 3-Day cycle without it and it was working, you just need the magic meter.

Offline CloudMax

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I'm not sure I follow. The Deku Flower method not working without Pictograph Box? I tried it in the first 3-Day cycle without it and it was working, you just need the magic meter.

I meant the other method.

Offline mzxrules

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2015, 08:39:09 AM »
Fantastic job! How did you manage to sort this out? Is it data pulled from the N64 version, or is there a good method for dumping 3DS memory data? It would be nice if we could actually look at what data the gibdo glitch writes so we can find a reliable way to WW.

I extracted the data off of a ram dump. It's possible via an exploit in the web browser.

Considering the gibdo mask ww is time based, it's clear that the 64 bit timer is what's overwriting the important bit of data needed to trigger the ww.

I've worked on trying to bind the tested entrances to proper entrance indexes which you can see at my ww doc link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing
I noticed an oddity though: the WW test doc stated that Mayor's WW lead to milk road, when my data dump suggests that this should be impossible. Can anyone explain? Additionally, please check for errors.
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline ProfessionalRob

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If someone with editing privileges wants to change it on the front page, the trick to get into the graves early with a Goron damage boost actually works on any of the three graves.  Whenever you "check" the grave, Goron Link takes a step back, you just have to position yourself so you step back onto the sloped part of the grave when you check it.  Also for the Day 3 grave it helps to kill one of the two bats since it's right under their tree.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 11:05:33 AM by ProfessionalRob »

Offline thestickystickman

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Re: Majora's Mask 3D Research & Discovery Thread
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2015, 10:44:51 AM »
I extracted the data off of a ram dump. It's possible via an exploit in the web browser.

Considering the gibdo mask ww is time based, it's clear that the 64 bit timer is what's overwriting the important bit of data needed to trigger the ww.

I've worked on trying to bind the tested entrances to proper entrance indexes which you can see at my ww doc link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VEn4pgibY-MYAC8ecQZxtyrsLXC9ogClDKiTmA66FlQ/edit?usp=sharing
I noticed an oddity though: the WW test doc stated that Mayor's WW lead to milk road, when my data dump suggests that this should be impossible. Can anyone explain? Additionally, please check for errors.

Would you mind explaining what the final page means?

Offline SlaskPrask

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Does this only work with Gilded Sword? Because in a run you wouldn't have Gilded at that point, and I know the swords have slightly different hitboxes.

This one is much better and more consistent and works with every sword:
http://t.co/TtyXcmPOgd

Offline Weegeechan

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Just a few things I've discovered so far. They probably were in the original but just in case they weren't, here they are:

A small timesaver when meeting Kafei. If you roll into the wall when you enter the backroom, you can target Kafei through it and talk to him.



An odd semi-OoB part in the mountain pass. Leaving a snow boulder near a large crack in the wall let's you roll up the wall. From there you can side hop up into the crack. Looks to be useless, but w/e.


Offline BALDORF!

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Wrath definitely, but with perfect quick spins against the wall Incarnation is easier to kill, and doesn't require constant mask switching.

If you do it right, after first arrow you shouldn't have to switch back til Wrath.

Also, I havn't seen anyone else do it, but you can get an extra hit in on Goht with fire arrows when he gets up to run again, they will still hurt him when he's moving if it hits the right spot
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 09:22:35 PM by BALDORF! »

Offline gabyelnuevo

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So since you can RI with Deku flower, I noticed you don't need an usable to make RI work, you can just switch it with an empty button and works, could this mean something with Deku + bombs = something big in cycle 1? O.o GG grezzo with the buttons and RI #Kappa