Author Topic: A Link Between Castles?  (Read 6089 times)

Offline Myria

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A Link Between Castles?
« on: July 13, 2014, 03:33:52 AM »
You know how after Yuga fight #2, in Hyrule Castle Tower, you go to the bridge then the first warp portal?  Then there is an equivalent Lorule bridge where you see Yuga become Yuganon?  I'm wondering something about it: is it physically the same area as the bridge after the big door in Lorule Castle's four wings are completed?

If it's the same physical area, there would be a possibility for a glitch.  Once you see the cutscene where Yuga becomes Yuganon, the game closes the wall at the north side of Yuga #2's boss room permanently and spawns the quick warp for Hyrule Castle Tower.  I know that this cutscene is the trigger because you can use a Scoot Fruit from that boss room to get out (*) and return so long as you haven't gotten to that cutscene.  Whether you've been to Lorule's bridge has no effect on this.

If we could somehow get through that wall in the boss room and onto to bridge a second time, it's possible that the game will think that we're on the Lorule Castle bridge in the endgame state.  This would mean the entirety of Lorule would be skipped.

It's a longshot, of course, but we'd skip half the game if it did work.

* After you beat Yuga #2, the south wall in the boss room closes, seemingly forcing you to go through to the Yuganon and intro to Lorule cutscenes.  However, up until you see the cutscenes, you can go back to the Yuga #2 boss room and use a Scoot Fruit to exit Hyrule Castle Tower.  When you later ascend again, Yuga #2 will already have been completed, but the south wall won't close anymore.  This has no effect on what happens after the intro to Lorule - regardless of whether you used a Scoot Fruit in this manner, after the intro cutscene, the north wall will be closed, the south wall will be open, and the warp portal will be in place.

Sorry if this has been considered before.

Melissa

Offline Roadagain

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2014, 05:57:30 AM »
This one has been considered before.

However, there is a bit of info on stuff related to the cutscenes and triggering the door/wall closing up. Dying as you enter the Lorule Castle cutscene throws you back to your house as soon as you regain movement at the Lorule Blacksmith. You can then go back to Hyrule Castle etc., but the cutscene will replay.

So it seems what triggers the door/wall closing, portals opening and access to Yuganon fight is the cutscene/dialogue outside Lorule Blacksmith with Hilda speaking to you. (Which, IIRC, also sets your spawn location to Lorule Blacksmith temporarily too)

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2014, 09:11:57 AM »
From your description and a few other things, I just realized something that might already be known: I think that Hilda's chat outside the Lorule blacksmith's house is actually programming-wise a standard Lorule zone introduction message.  In other words, exiting the blacksmith's house isn't what triggers that message; stepping anywhere in the middle-west portion of the Lorule map does.

There are a few points of evidence for this:

 * If you skip the ice cave from Hell by glitching your way across that broken bridge in Lorule's lower Death Mountain, Hilda's message for the northeastern part of the Lorule map triggers immediately upon landing.  This was not something considered by the game's designers, obviously, so this means that rather than the game being programmed to trigger Hilda's messages when you come through various Lorule portals, the messages are triggered on an area basis.

 * Hilda's message is functionally the same as all the others: "Hey!", the mysterious music, her message, then finally the stringed instrument version of the Dark World music with the extra introduction added at the beginning.

 * There is no other such introduction message to the Village of Outcasts area / Lorule Castle / Ravio's House area, I think.

Overall, this suggests three possible ways to glitch out the game for an early victory:

1. Find a way through the multicolored wall after it closes, like suggested before.

2. Somehow skip the Yuga #2 fight entirely, or at least exit the fight without completing it la the oversized Wallmaster fight.  Get to Lorule then return, and since Yuga #2 isn't dead he'll open the door for you when he does die.

3. Somehow get to the Village of Outcasts before going to Lorule officially to trigger Hilda's message; then, when you go to Hyrule Castle Tower, there will be a nice portal straight to the room before Yuga #2, and, theoretically, you could beat Yuga #2 and past him would be the bridges in endgame mode.

An interesting question is what the bridge side of Hyrule Castle Tower looks like in the endgame state.  The Hyrule version of the study has a locked door and fairies when in endgame mode.  Finding out could happen if there were a way to get on top of the study's outer walls with some Tornado Rod glitch or whatever, but I'm not an expert in that.

Offline LemonKong

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 01:50:48 AM »
These are good ideas but unfortunately they've already been discussed and explored a number of times without anyone really getting anywhere.

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1. Find a way through the multicolored wall after it closes, like suggested before.

Unfortunately none of our current methods of clipping or getting on top of walls OoB really apply to that particular area. Neither Yuga nor Soldiers are really good for getting OoB with the Tornado Rod.

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2. Somehow skip the Yuga #2 fight entirely, or at least exit the fight without completing it la the oversized Wallmaster fight.  Get to Lorule then return, and since Yuga #2 isn't dead he'll open the door for you when he does die.

The thing is the clipping used to skip the Knucklemaster fight is extremely unique in that it actually punches you through the middle of a wall, as opposed to pretty much every other clip that gets done near the edges of a mesh. The reason for this is believed to be the Knucklemaster's extraordinarily large hitbox that leaves the game no choice but to force Link through, something Yuga 2 unfortunately does not share.

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3. Somehow get to the Village of Outcasts before going to Lorule officially to trigger Hilda's message; then, when you go to Hyrule Castle Tower, there will be a nice portal straight to the room before Yuga #2, and, theoretically, you could beat Yuga #2 and past him would be the bridges in endgame mode.

Getting to Lorule early is something we've been looking for for a while but nothing's come of it unfortunately. Two floating ideas are to somehow get either to the Desert in Hyrule or inside the Stylish Woman's House before getting to Lorule as it's believed the portals located there might be available if the developers were lazy and didn't hide them before Hyrule Castle.

Offline Roadagain

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 09:14:55 AM »

Getting to Lorule early is something we've been looking for for a while but nothing's come of it unfortunately. Two floating ideas are to somehow get either to the Desert in Hyrule or inside the Stylish Woman's House before getting to Lorule as it's believed the portals located there might be available if the developers were lazy and didn't hide them before Hyrule Castle.

Expanding a bit on the Desert one. The Desert is actually not connected to the rest of Hyrule at all (Similar to Lost Woods, Skull Woods, Dark Maze), so unless a way to fly to unactivated vanes is found, there's little that can be done to reach it (I guess you could find something else, like having the game just warp you there without a vane, but you get the gist)

Which more or less leaves Stylish Woman as an option. The neat thing with that one is, that if you can somehow pull it off, there's a chance the same trick can be used to skip the entirety of Thieves' Hideout.

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2014, 10:52:26 AM »
Under best-case assumptions, if we could get into the dress lady's house, we wouldn't need to do Thieves' Town at all =^-^=

The sequence would be something like this, under the assumptions.

1. Get Master Sword.
2. Break into dress lady's house.
3. Go to Lorule through her portal.
4. Entering Lorule there will trigger Hilda's welcome message, which is also what unlocks all the portals in the game.  It also triggers an extremely-critical event flag.
5. Return to Hyrule either through that portal or through the one by Ravio's house.
6. Meet Sahasrahla in front of Hyrule Castle and unseal it with the Master Sword.
7. Enter Hyrule Castle Tower, possibly after Invisi-Zelda gives you a pendant you used to get the Master Sword...Wait, what?  Never mind. =^-^=
8. This is speculation, but I believe that the warp to the top will be active, despite never having come through.  If not, just fight through.
9. Beat Yuga 2.
10. Continue on to Zelda's study.
11. That's odd...  Why are there fairies in here?  And why did the door shut behind me, trapping me inside?
12. Portal to Lorule.
13. Go to throne room.
14. Instead of seeing Yuga become Yuganon, you fight Yuganon.
15. Win.

I hope that this is how it would work.  The problem is, of course, finding a glitch to get in her house =)

It'd let Zaheer and Anworu save what, 30 minutes off their runs?  I think they'd be a lot more boring, though, since the entire second "half" of the game is skipped.

Earlier in the stickied glitch thread, back in November, someone said that using the "Cucco clip" they could get into Sahasrahla's locked house early.  What's that glitch?

Offline Tr621

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2014, 11:22:28 AM »
I'm not sure what the cucco clip is; I don't remember hearing about it.

This glitch would theoretically save ~40 minutes. Lorule is currently ~50 minutes, but add back in the yuganon fight and the time it takes to actually do this glitch and you get about 40 minutes saved. It would also make any% really difficult and create a third "All Paintings" category.
"I once stored a quick draw on my sword without de-equipping the bottle in my hand in an attempt to bottle dupe over sword. Didn't work." - nathanisbored, 2013

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Offline LemonKong

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2014, 12:42:55 PM »
I'm not sure what the cucco clip is; I don't remember hearing about it.

Cucco Clip is a little trick that lets you take one of the Cuccos and wedge Link in that corner between the jail and Sahasralamadingdong's house and then throw it and it sorta clips you inside in a similar manner to Portal clipping. I've only been able to get it to allow you to clip into the jail cell, idk if it can get you inside the house. Alternatively you can actually just do Portal clipping with the cucco to get in there.

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This glitch would theoretically save ~40 minutes. Lorule is currently ~50 minutes, but add back in the yuganon fight and the time it takes to actually do this glitch and you get about 40 minutes saved. It would also make any% really difficult and create a third "All Paintings" category.

I was thinking about this, and realized that such a glitch would actually give us the option of skipping all Sages OR skipping all Pendants + Master Sword. Skipping most of Lorule would work just as described, but alternatively you could do a run where you start the game get Merge from Eastern Palace and then set off straight for Lorule with just the Forgotten Sword. You'd basically have the option of doing either Hyrule or Lorule... and then we'd all sit down and have a huge discussion about categories.

(inb4 PST: Pendants, Sages, Trials)

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2014, 06:59:55 PM »
Cucco Clip is a little trick that lets you take one of the Cuccos and wedge Link in that corner between the jail and Sahasralamadingdong's house and then throw it and it sorta clips you inside in a similar manner to Portal clipping. I've only been able to get it to allow you to clip into the jail cell, idk if it can get you inside the house. Alternatively you can actually just do Portal clipping with the cucco to get in there.

This is the quote from the long thread's page 4 that I'm wondering about:
http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=1478.msg25877#msg25877

Unrelatedly. Sahasrhala's house is locked at the beginning of the game. If you use the cucco clip to get inside early, he'll be asleep when you walk in, but talking to him just makes him say "Hurry on ahead! I'll join you there just as soon as I can." Doesn't seem to be possible to trigger the cutscene that usually happens here, which is unfortunate. Woulda been cool if there was a way to skip some of the intro crap.

That sounds like Paraxade knows or knew of a way to get inside with it...?

Offline RheaultWnage

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2014, 11:26:03 PM »
That sounds like Paraxade knows or knew of a way to get inside with it...?

I went into his stream and asked him if he remembered anything about it.

Parax0: uhh isn't it just a simple cucco clip?
Parax0: you go up to the door with the cucco and throw it
Parax0: and clip through the door

I tried doing that a bit, but had no luck, so I checked some more inside the thread and found these.

http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=1478.msg25848#msg25848

http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=1478.msg25861#msg25861

Unfortunately the Youtube video isn't there anymore. :( I know KingOfHeart still posts here frequently, maybe he remembers something?

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 01:08:24 AM »
alternatively you could do a run where you start the game get Merge from Eastern Palace and then set off straight for Lorule with just the Forgotten Sword.

It'd be interesting to see whether Triforce of the Gods 2 is like 1 and lets you get the level-3 and level-4 swords without the level-2 sword =).  I'm guessing that it probably does allow it, but that unlike 1, you wouldn't be able to repeat the process of getting the level-3 or level-4 sword if you subsequently go pick up the level-2 sword.  My guess is based on the ore being consumed.

Offline Tr621

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2014, 03:54:27 AM »
I was thinking about this, and realized that such a glitch would actually give us the option of skipping all Sages OR skipping all Pendants + Master Sword. Skipping most of Lorule would work just as described, but alternatively you could do a run where you start the game get Merge from Eastern Palace and then set off straight for Lorule with just the Forgotten Sword. You'd basically have the option of doing either Hyrule or Lorule... and then we'd all sit down and have a huge discussion about categories.

(inb4 PST: Pendants, Sages, Trials)

Not necessarily; we still don't know what the trigger is for making all of the portals appear. It might not be the Hilda CS outside Lorule Blacksmith, although it is likely, considering we theorize that this is the trigger for having been to Lorule and the trigger for the Yuganon fight to be in the throne room, rather than the other cutscene.

It would also be kind of ironic if an "Early Lorule" glitch actually allowed you to skip most of Lorule, not most of Hyrule.
"I once stored a quick draw on my sword without de-equipping the bottle in my hand in an attempt to bottle dupe over sword. Didn't work." - nathanisbored, 2013

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Offline Roadagain

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 07:47:26 AM »
Uh, guys, are we really talkin about Cucco clip to Sahasrahla? Because that's pretty easy, just throw the cucco in a specific way in the jail/sahasrahla house corner at north.

Offline Jeville

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2014, 08:13:03 AM »
Uh, guys, are we really talkin about Cucco clip to Sahasrahla? Because that's pretty easy, just throw the cucco in a specific way in the jail/sahasrahla house corner at north.
No, we're talking about how to apply this to getting inside the dressing lady's house for the portal.

Offline Anwonu

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2014, 08:23:50 AM »
Indeed, getting in Sahasrahla before portals is from the north part, not the door. If it were from the door, I believe some people would have already tried the same with the kissing woman house.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKleBoCyww
Of course, if someone finds a way through the door directly, please tell us =p

Offline Weegeechan

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2014, 10:06:26 AM »
There is unfortunately no way to clip through walls without the use of an object so far, so I don't think "a link between castles" will be possible for a while :P Anyways, the cucco clip only works on southern walls due to the way the game is made, so the portal in the fairy room is most likely unclippable unless an enemy is present.

I've tried using bombs and other objects to clip into portals but it doesn't seem to work and only pushes link away from the wall. So pretty much, an entirely new method would need to be found in order to even get OoB without an enemy.

Maybe one day someone will find one....one day  :-*

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2014, 02:03:39 PM »
There is unfortunately no way to clip through walls without the use of an object so far, so I don't think "a link between castles" will be possible for a while :P Anyways, the cucco clip only works on southern walls due to the way the game is made, so the portal in the fairy room is most likely unclippable unless an enemy is present.

I think that you've conflated two different things here.  The location we'd like to glitch into is the kissing lady's house in Kakariko.  The idea is to get to Lorule early, because by setting that flag prior to defeating Yuga 2, the study will be a fairy room instead of the empty room.  There would be no reason to glitch into the portal - we'd just use it to go to Lorule Castle.  With the aforementioned flag set, we'd battle against Yuganon rather than see his creation - as the theory goes, anyway.

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2014, 02:10:05 PM »
An additional possibility I've considered is to use the Tornado Rod and/or bombs after enraging a chicken.  The chickens start flying at Link with velocity and some are even in the air - exactly what might be needed to clip past something.  In various attempts, I've noticed Link get knocked to the side, then get shoved back, indicating that under the right conditions, something might work.

Offline Myria

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2014, 11:23:18 AM »
The Cucco Clip glitch appears to be specific to corners of the game that are oriented like a J (except uncurved), with Link on the northwest side.  The only corner I know of like this that has Cuccos is the Kakariko "jail" building adjacent to Sahasrahla's house.  The ruined house in Lorule in the same place as Rocco's house has the mirror image, L, but the glitch doesn't occur there.

I'm curious whether the big bomb would work for making the J-shaped corner; it would allow breaking into the Thieves' Town sage building if so.

Offline Ahamplan

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Re: A Link Between Castles?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2014, 01:08:04 PM »
The thing with the big bomb is that it activates a trigger for the screen transition into thieves town, and even hookshotting into the very pixel of where to hookshot still isnt possible, or even the alternate way, the only way to get into town is with an oob, and even then the bomb probably won't follow
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