Author Topic: Lorule Race File  (Read 9290 times)

Offline CloudMax

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Lorule Race File
« on: November 26, 2013, 12:24:58 PM »
So, we were discussing the possibility of Bingo for ALBW in the IRC today and I suggested having a premade Lorule Race File that can be used for Bingos and other races (randomized dungeon order among other things were mentioned in the IRC).
The reason for this is because as soon as you reach Lorule, the game is extremely open with the only limitation being having to do Thieves', which gives you access to sand rod, before Desert Palace, which in turn allows you to lift big boulders
Basically you'll have a save with as little items as possible by the time you reach Lorule, and save at the blacksmith. (excluding a few things like the Pouch)
Racing to create such a file takes a little over an hour.
The same rules are applied when the bingo file is created in races and outside of them, with the only difference being that you may lend any item at Ravio's as long as you die to remove them before you're done.

Once you've set the file up, you won't have to do it again, because in a race, you wouldn't need to save, so once a race is over, you can use the same file again.

Rules (as of November 27th):
  • You must unlock Quick Swap
  • You must obtain the Pouch
  • You must obtain at least 1 Monster Gut and Energy Potion
  • You are only allowed to activate the Weather Vanes at Link's House and Lorule Blacksmith
  • You may not play any minigames
  • You are only allowed to lend the Bow, Tornado Rod and Hammer
  • You may not obtain any Heart Containers, Heart Pieces or Compasses
  • You may only have the Master Sword, Green Tunic, Ravio's Bracelet, Power Glove, Zora's Flippers, Pendants, Irene's Bell, Pouch and Lantern when you reach Lorule
  • You may not leave the area outside the Blacksmith's House or die in Lorule
  • Timing ends when you press A to save at the Lorule Blacksmith with 0 Rupees and Monster Guts
(Explanation of the ruleset can be found a few posts below)

You can sell your Monster Guts at the Potion Shop.
To waste rupees, visit the shop southeast of Link's House or northwest Kakariko Village and purchase Fruits.
Note that you'll have to do Hyrule Castle without obtaining a rupee at the end. There is one room where you must kill all enemies and merge onto a wall to do so. Merge the south wall in the room instead, it does not have any rupees on it. You can also save at Link's House before entering the castle and quickly reset from there if you screw up.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 01:29:23 PM by CloudMax »

Offline mzxrules

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 01:28:56 PM »
Fixed some things in your post.
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
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This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline Jerry23dr

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 02:04:13 PM »
Only issue with not saving is that death would mean an instant drop out almost.
edit: But if you copy that file over, you can still save and have that one for whenever you want to race

Offline CloudMax

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 02:17:08 PM »
Only issue with not saving is that death would mean an instant drop out almost.

That shouldn't really be an issue. Since you're most likely only lending the items, it's not expensive at all. if you have pegasus boots you can go grab 300r just outside links house in less than a minute, getting all items again.
And this is normal mode, so dying shouldn't be a big issue at all.
I'd say that dying is as big of a threat as it would be in any ALBW race. Sure, you have 3 hearts less. But to be fair, Hero Mode would be like having 1 1/2 heart when you reach Lorule, and I didn't have much trouble. Just avoid specific enemies in the overworld and you're fine.

Also, we discussed the file setup a bit more in the IRC and have decided that the file will unlock quick swap at Link's House before going to Hyrule Castle.
This is mainly a convenience, since the tutorial takes some time, and any race done on a lorule race file will most certainly go to Link's House. having to go thru the explantion every time seems kinda arbitrary.

The pouch is still not part of the setup though. Mainly because it is considered an actual obtainable item unlike quick swap, and it's up to the runner if it's worth it to spend the time to grab it.

We're still discussing other things, for lorule bingo in specific. Join the #albw channel on the srl irc to discuss it with us.

Offline mzxrules

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 07:36:57 PM »
I got a 1:06:11. Wasn't able to unlock the slider feature to the Quick Swap.

I tried not following Gully to avoid a cutscene and wasted some time.

In order to make up some of the 140ish rupee deficit at the end of Eastern Palace I collected the Silver Rupee in the house next to Sahasrahla's house, which got me the Smooth Scale. Zora River has a dive spot where you can get ~28 rupees, leaving me 10 down.  I think if I picked up more rupees in Eastern Palace I would have been fine.

Tower of Gales was mostly smooth, save for the boss (ended up with half a heart so I decided to save/reset my health back).

Death Mountain climb was gross (boulders suck). Tower of Hera was a little messy. One thing I have to wonder is whether platforms are always moving if you're nowhere near them.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 08:58:20 PM by mzxrules »
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline Hornlitz

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 10:43:42 PM »
You missed Irene's Bell in the list of things we need to collect. Unless you somehow found a way to skip it?

Offline CloudMax

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2013, 02:28:42 AM »
You missed Irene's Bell in the list of things we need to collect. Unless you somehow found a way to skip it?

Didn't write that down because I didn't consider it an item, and it is mandatory. I guess this actually doesn't make sense since somewhere along the lines I started to write down everything.
I'll add it to the list.

------------------

I did some thinking today and attempted to write up proper Race Rules which will be applied both when setting up a Lorule File, and during a Lorule File Race.
I'm basically trying to make it so that they're both on equal terms in a bingo race. The only advantage I can think of from a Lorule File set up outside of a race is that it most likely won't have opened one of the 100r chests available that'd be used in a race to obtain the Smooth Gem.
They'd also be able to hit a few extra switches in the dungeons to allow a few seconds faster access to the dungeon compasses. But all in all, the difference between a setup file and a race file should only be several seconds now.

Rules:
  • You must unlock Quick Swap
  • You must obtain the Pouch
  • You must obtain at least 1 Monster Gut and Energy Potion
  • You are only allowed to activate the Weather Vanes at Link's House and Lorule Blacksmith
  • You may not play any minigames
  • You are only allowed to lend the Bow, Tornado Rod and Hammer
  • You may not obtain any Heart Containers, Heart Pieces or Compasses
  • You may only have the Master Sword, Green Tunic, Ravio's Bracelet, Power Glove, Zora's Flippers, Pendants, Irene's Bell, Pouch and Lantern when you reach Lorule
  • You may not leave the area outside the Blacksmith's House or die in Lorule
  • Timing ends when you press A to save at the Lorule Blacksmith with 0 Rupees and Monster Guts

So, let me expain each rule.
You must unlock Quick Swap because in a bingo race, you'll most likely visit Link's House. This rule is in place so that in a bingo, you won't have to do the tutorial.
There is a similar reason for the Pouch. At this point, everyone is used to having 2 item slots and it is just very convenient. You also won't have to grab it in a bingo, which I can imagine most people would do. This will also force the Gulley is Missing conversation during the file setup, so you won't have to watch it in a bingo if you happen to pass by.
You must obtain a monster gut and energy potion because they have a 1 time only text box. We don't want these in a bingo. Another reason is that if you were to obtain one by mistake, others will not have a disadvantage in a bingo because they haven't seen the text box.
You may not play any minigames, this is to prevent people from doing things like unlocking new difficulties in the Cucco minigame for example, which could give an advantage in a bingo race. You also won't be able to rely on RNG for the chest minigame during a race, which could otherwise play a big part.
You may only activate the Weather Vanes at Link's House and Lorule Blacksmith. The reason for this is because you must activate these two. The first in order to progress in the game, the second to save.
You may only lend the Bow Tornado Rod and hammer. The main reason for this rule is because it's the initial rule we set when we first raced this. This rule also set numerous limitations such as not being able to blow up walls, etc.
You may not obtain any heart containers, heart pieces, compasses or the Pouch. The reason why you are not allowed to obtain the initial 3 heart containers is because we plan to use them as Bingo goals. Otherwise the only reason to visit the first 3 dungeons in a Bingo would be for the Compass, unlike the other dungeons which have a compass, dungeon item, heart container.
You may only have the specified items because these are the only items you're required to obtain and can't remove by the time you reach Lorule. The reason why you must've removed your Bow, Hammer and Tornado rod by the time you reach Lorule is because you're not allowed to actually die in Lorule.
You may not leave the area outside the blacksmiths house in order to prevent people from doing things in Lorule that would give them an advantage in a Bingo race, like doing stuff in Thieves' Hideout for example. You're not allowed to die because dying in Lorule causes one-time only textboxes on your first death. In a bingo, this would give an advantage to those who died in Lorule instead of Hyrule.
You must have 0 Rupees and Monster Guts when you're done to make Bingo Races fair.

So, the rules are still very much the same, but they've been rewritten, and due to various limitations, specific things could be removed from various rules.
The main differences to keep in mind:
  • You are required to obtain the pouch, this was previously not allowed. (which could cause inconsistent bingo files since some people may trigger the Gulley is Missing conversation)
  • Obtaining a Monster Gut and Energy Potion is now a requirement instead of being optional.
  • You may only lend the Bow, Tornado Rod & Hammer. (we did play by this rule previously, but it wasn't written done)
  • You must die and loose your items before visiting Lorule, you were previously allowed to die in Lorule.
  • You may not leave the area outside the Blacksmith's House. (this was previously an unwritten rule as well.)
  • You are not allowed to play any minigames.

If anyone has any arguments about the new ruleset I'd like to hear it. I do believe that the rules are starting to stabilize, and we'll most likely reach the final ruleset soon enough.
Also, are there any specific events or dialogs that take place in hyrule that could give an advantage in a Bingo which should be banned in ruleset? I couldn't think of any.

Edit: We decided to remove Shady Guy. If you've seen the dialog or not shouldn't really matter, as you can obtain the Pegasus Boots without seeing it anyway, and you'd most likely not want to walk past him in a Bingo without obtaining the boots.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 07:30:11 AM by CloudMax »

Offline SweetJohnnyCage

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2013, 07:51:12 AM »
One thing I have to wonder is whether platforms are always moving if you're nowhere near them.

I think once you're on the outside, the platforms are moving. But once you move up a floor, the platforms on the lower floor reset. I had a platform straight up disappear when I tried to land on it from a floor above. Once the map switches floors, the platforms reset to their original positions.

Offline Vortex

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 01:28:06 PM »
Wait-- we can't get the Pegasus Boots?
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Offline CloudMax

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2013, 01:55:37 PM »
Wait-- we can't get the Pegasus Boots?

Nope. It really isn't that big of a deal. There's a person running any% without Pegasus Boots because his L button is broken even.
The reason we're not grabbing Pegasus Boots is to keep your equipment & items as low as possible, which was the original intention of the Lorule Race File. (which was the original reason for not picking up the 3 heart containers)
We want the file to have done as little as possible when a bingo starts, and we put it at the first lorule visit because that's when the game opens up a lot.
Pouch is the exception of keeping the file low on equipment/items, which we added in because having 2 item slots from the beginning of a race Bingo is just convenient, and we want the bingos to be just that. Which is why we also unlock quick swap.
Pegasus Boots is an actual usable item though, and is something you should decide to go grab yourself in a Bingo Race.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 01:58:16 PM by CloudMax »

Offline flanthis

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 08:47:41 PM »
So if we have to get an energy potion then which bottle are we supposed to get so that everyone won't have to collect one from different locations?

Edit: Also, some rocks won't respawn when they are destroyed by the Hammer, so should we ignore them when making a Bingo file?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 08:52:35 PM by flanthis »

Offline mzxrules

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 08:56:31 PM »
So if we have to get an energy potion then which bottle are we supposed to get so that everyone won't have to collect one from different locations?

Edit: Also, some rocks won't respawn when they are destroyed by the Hammer, so should we ignore them when making a Bingo file?

Energy Potions cannot be permanently collected. As for the second one, what rocks specifically?
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline flanthis

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 10:24:42 AM »
Energy Potions cannot be permanently collected. As for the second one, what rocks specifically?

Woopsie. I thought the Energy Potion was referring to the Purple Potion... Stupid me  :-X

And as for the rocks, the ones that drop Rupees when destroyed won't respawn, but this rock opens a path that saves like 3-5 seconds of walking around the boulders:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 10:32:31 AM by flanthis »

Offline CloudMax

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2013, 09:57:03 AM »
And as for the rocks, the ones that drop Rupees when destroyed won't respawn, but this rock opens a path that saves like 3-5 seconds of walking around the boulders:

With the hammer, the difference will be the amount of time it takes to use it, minus the shorter path. So the difference would be less than a second if you have the hammer.
However, most of the time you obviously won't have it, because you don't need it in a bingo unless you're visiting Hera. So instead you'd pick up a small rock and walk around. The difference would probably be 2-3 seconds.
I really don't think that the difference is big enough to matter, just like with the Shady Guy dialog in Kakariko Village.
And if I recall correctly, the falling boulders can even blow up boulders in the path. wouldn't that mean that if you're unlucky, they'd break without you wanting them too?
Wouldn't be a good idea to force removing them either.
So yeah, it doesn't matter. For now, if something isn't mentioned in the ruleset, it's allowed. But if you can come up with any other permanent changes that could affect things, feel free to bring it up, since there may be many things I haven't considered.

Offline Tr621

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2014, 03:25:59 PM »
With the new skip (and the forums working again), I think we should change the definition of a race file. I think getting Power Glove and EP big key should be required for a race file.

Also, maybe I missed this, but what is the point of not getting heart containers. If we talking in terms of bingo that seems to be a stupid goal, and for other races (such as beat the game starting from a race file), it just makes it more difficult.

So, this:

get:

-heart containers
-energy potion
-monster guts (sell to 0 at potion shop)
-quick swap
-pouch
-power gloves
-all big keys
-vanes: your house and lorule blacksmith, only
-items: lamp, only (you can rent bow, hammer, and t-rod, but you must die to lose them)
-rupees: have a certain amount TBD (probably 0 rupees, waste by buying fruits, then waste the fruits)

don't:

-get compasses
-get heart containers
-get pegasus boots
-play minigames
-die in lorule
-no bombs means you can't start the maiamai quest

Of course, this means that bingo would have to be changed to get rid of the heart container goals. Also, this is not final, as I haven't discussed this with anyone while the forums were down. Please make suggestions :)
"I once stored a quick draw on my sword without de-equipping the bottle in my hand in an attempt to bottle dupe over sword. Didn't work." - nathanisbored, 2013

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lol us da beg key

Offline RheaultWnage

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2014, 10:03:12 PM »
So a bunch of us did a test Bingo tonight, and we talked for a while after. We came up with a somewhat new setup for the Bingo file, that would include saving at Sahasrahla before Hyrule Castle, with 0 rupee, 0 Guts and a few other things. File setup route would look something like this.

Things to NOT do during setup:

-Activate any vane beside Link's House at the start
-Open any unecessary chest (i.e. all rupee chests, compasses, Big Key if possible, etc.)
-Bomb any cave entrance
-Get any HPs or HCs aside from the first 3 dungeons' HCs
-Play any minigame
-Get any Maiamai

Route:

Start game
Blacksmith for sword
Power Gloves Skip
Get eruption cutscene, deathwarp
Rent Tornado Rod + Bow
Complete Sanctuary
Complete Eastern Palace (Do the Big Key skip. Get HC. Get an Energy Potion during escape)
Get Irene Bell
Shady Guy trigger
Warp to house, go get Pouch
Farm rupees for Smooth Gem and Hammer
Get Gem and Boots
Get Flippers
Rent Hammer
Beat House Of Gales (Do not use the Skip Skip, use the Old Skip with the Armos after getting the Big Key. Get HC)
Go get Power Gloves at Rosso's House
Climb Death Mountain
Beat Tower Of Hera (Do not use the Bombrod or Crowrod. Get HC)
Get Master Sword

At that point, if you haven't gotten any Monster Guts, farm for at least one. Then:

Sell all Monster Guts to the Witch (3 rupees a piece)
Waste all your rupees on Hearts/Scoot Fruit/Foul Fruit
Die to lose all items except Lantern
Get Quick Equip from Ravio
Go to Hyrule Castle and save at Sahasrahla.


Now, the reason for not opening any unecessary chest is that you might get a row that requires you to "Open all chests in X dungeon". The reason for doing the Power Gloves Skip is so we can move the Impa + Zelda cutscenes in Hyrule Castle at the beginning of the actual Bingo Race, instead of having it before Eastern Palace. That way, when a race starts, you have some "free" time to check out the Bingo grid and chose your row. The reason why we get the Power Gloves later on is because Rosso disappears (sort of) after you get the Master Sword, making it impossible to get them altogether. A bunch of Maiamais/HPs require the use of the Gloves, so one would then have to get the Titan's Mitt, which requires beating Thieves' Hideout to get the Sand Rod, adding quite a lot of time for just lifting rocks.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 12:28:25 PM by RheaultWnage »

Offline Tr621

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Re: Lorule Race File
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2014, 02:42:13 AM »
We should skip flippers in race files now I think. It would make bingo much more interesting.
"I once stored a quick draw on my sword without de-equipping the bottle in my hand in an attempt to bottle dupe over sword. Didn't work." - nathanisbored, 2013

----

lol us da beg key