Author Topic: 100%  (Read 31582 times)

Offline Rdy

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 15
Re: 100%
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2013, 08:15:14 AM »
I put the bee badge where it is to get rid of the golden bee as soon as possible to free it up for fairies for TT.  I was considering adding in the skull woods area cleanup (which is when you would buy the golden bee) after titans mitt so you get the one under the titans mitt rock at that time too but didn't test it out yet.

I was actually thinking about giving that a try today. Just in theory, the less visits we have to pay to an area, the better.

Quote from: ZFG
This sounds like it should be a good idea, as long as you route in getting the bottled letter/premium milk before it as well.  I was never able to get anything less than 3 cycles on the ice ruins boss with gold sword, and lv2 sword also does it in 3 cycles so I guess you're not really losing much time not having it.  You also don't have the nice fire rod but that really doesn't save that much time in IR anyway.

I was aware of this, but in your route it might be a bit difficult unless things are shuffled around at Hylia Lake. For 100% it wouldn't save but 10-15 seconds, anyway, so it might not be worth it unless the route changes drastically for optimizations.

Quote from: ZFG
I do TT as early as possible to get all the rupees needed as soon as possible.  If you want to upgrade anything before TT, you're going to need to go out of your way for rupees.  The rupees you get there have you set for the rest of the game so it seems like a good placement for getting upgrades decently early + not needing to go out of your way for rupees + having the best sword to go decently fast.

This is true, I'm just concerned about potential time loss for not having the Great Spin. TT is still doable, and ideally it should always be done as soon as possible. Do we need to get all of the upgrades to get Great Spin? Maybe doing just one Advanced run, grabbing the last Maiamai there, buying important items for Nice (Bow, Hookshot, Fire, Bomb, Hammer?) then warping back later in the run with Great Spin would save a little bit of time, give us the benefit of early Nice Items, and be a lot safer, too. I'll see if I can test that out today.

edit:

Also just to confirm, I got all 100 maiamais with no bought items, and she won't give you great spin until you upgrade all 9 items.

Welp. Fak u Mother Maiamai.

Quote
One other thing I'm not sure about is the placement for skull woods, specifically for the boss.  He takes forever with the Lv1 master sword and the Lv2 would definitely help, but doing dark palace before desert is probably not a good idea and desert with Lv1 also sounds bad. idk

I had a potentially silly thought that I'm going to explicitly time in a short bit to test: Go into Skull Woods, get Master Ore, Big Key, Scoot Fruit, move on with route. Add the Skull Woods boss to the Skull Woods clean-up. The mid-way teleport that you will activate unless a huge Skull Woods skip is found takes you two rooms from the Boss Door, with the only obstacle being a slowly moving platform. Any time lost from getting the Scoot Fruit + Travelling back through the dungeon should be easily negated by the Level 2 Master Sword speeding up the boss fight.

I'm going to get a file up to the Big Key chest, and I'll time how long it takes to do the boss then get the tempered sword vs. how long it takes to get the tempered sword then do the boss. Hopefully it'll save a notable amount of time because that boss just sucks with the Level 1 Master Sword.

Edit: I tried testing it out. Here's what the basic criteria of the test was to try to facilitate an equal comparison:

1. Obtain the Tempered Master Sword.
2. Defeat the Skull Woods Boss.
3. Timer starts at first control near the Big Key chest.
4. Timer stops in Lorule at first control.

For consistency, I only used the Portal in the Stylish Lady's House.

Tempered Sword, then SW Boss: 5:39.87. Five cycles, possibly four? I did not use Scoot Fruit, could possibly be faster depending on time lost getting a Scoot Fruit vs. time saved.
SW Boss, then Tempered Sword: 5:48.182. Seven-eight cycles. Should probably be faster but I fell down a pit on the boss and delayed a few seconds.

Might be worth checking out in more detail, but it looks like it wouldn't save a dramatic amount of time, even considering that there would be less wasted movement in a real run (i.e. not using the Stylish Lady's House Portal to return to Skull Woods).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:14:52 PM by Rdy »

Offline Crankeey

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 13
Re: 100%
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2013, 10:08:16 PM »
I put the bee badge where it is to get rid of the golden bee as soon as possible to free it up for fairies for TT.  I was considering adding in the skull woods area cleanup (which is when you would buy the golden bee) after titans mitt so you get the one under the titans mitt rock at that time too but didn't test it out yet.

One other thing I'm not sure about is the placement for skull woods, specifically for the boss.  He takes forever with the Lv1 master sword and the Lv2 would definitely help, but doing dark palace before desert is probably not a good idea and desert with Lv1 also sounds bad. idk
I have yet to test it out, but someone in the irc mentioned that golden bees have a high appearance rate next to rupee rush in lowrule. I'm not sure it's worth getting the golden bee that late in the route but I do believe there are hot spots that are guaranteed to save time over buying a golden bee and if you can catch one there consistently within 2-3 minutes, it would probably be worthwhile over buying the golden bee and doing a skull woods cleanup. Perhaps, I should start looking for hotspots closer to kak idk. 888 rupees just seems like a lot before TT.

Also I see nothing wrong with doing dark palace first. The boss wouldn't take much longer with the lv1 master sword. Desert palace might be an issue? mzxrules started working on a dmg chart so that will probably help with dungeon order.

Speaking of which, one more thing that might be worthwhile for 100% is purple potions. I have no idea how many monster guts are acquired over the course of a 100% speedrun, but I feel like 4x the base dmg of the mastersword could really speed up TT, rooms filled with enemies you need to kill,  and potentially boss fights. It all really depends and I know fairies are practically required for TT but this is a speedrun, fuck babby strats and focus on the most optimal route. Fuck practicality, besides, what other zelda speedruns would require fairies?

Offline Hornlitz

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 118
Re: 100%
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2013, 10:17:22 PM »
So, over the past while I've been writing a different 100% route (before ZFG even started his), and I have basically finished it. I'm missing 7 Maiamais from the route, so I'll add them when I find out which ones are missing when it's the most convenient. Let me know if I've missed anything else, or if something I have in the route is completely stupid and doesn't work, or there's just an obvious route change that I should make.

The route: http://pastebin.com/dUxvEGQ5

I haven't done a trial run of this yet, so maybe when I get the 7 maiamais in somebody can do that? (I don't really have the time to do a 5+ hour run all at once)

Offline Rdy

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 15
Re: 100%
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2013, 07:54:53 AM »
Also I see nothing wrong with doing dark palace first. The boss wouldn't take much longer with the lv1 master sword. Desert palace might be an issue? mzxrules started working on a dmg chart so that will probably help with dungeon order.

The big issue that I can think of is that there is at least one Maiamai in that area under a Large Rock, and it's really quite deep into the area as compared to the one in Skull Woods that you'd be missing, so we'd be returning in some fashion post-Desert Palace. Given the timing I got of leaving Skull Woods to get the Tempered Sword then returning, I expect that would actually make it slower. Also, I know 'fuck babby strats' but Dark Palace isn't exactly fun to do when a) trying to be fast and b) having little health to spare.

Quote
Speaking of which, one more thing that might be worthwhile for 100% is purple potions. I have no idea how many monster guts are acquired over the course of a 100% speedrun, but I feel like 4x the base dmg of the mastersword could really speed up TT, rooms filled with enemies you need to kill,  and potentially boss fights. It all really depends and I know fairies are practically required for TT but this is a speedrun, fuck babby strats and focus on the most optimal route. Fuck practicality, besides, what other zelda speedruns would require fairies?

What other Zelda speedrun has a 50-floor rush of enemies? :P They're possibly worthwhile.. but at the same time, my 7 hour run ended with 23 guts, and that number will only become less and less as I get more efficient. Furthermore, it's only a single room of usage, of 50. I can actually only think of one room bad enough that I would want that (with the two large penguins and slippery floors and high chance of falling if you spin attack). Assuming an optimal time of an Adv. run of TT is 10 minutes, then that means 12 seconds per room, and I can't think of many rooms that went obscenely over that number in my last run. It was just a slog in general. I'm not opposed to Purple Potions, but I don't think TT is the place for it, really. Does the Purple Potion work on boss fights? I'm going to test it on the Helmasaur in Dark Palace to see what happens, actually. I have a save file where I can do that.

edit: PP immediately breaks his helmet, does not hit him through his 'Shadow Dash', does not skip his 'Shadow Dash' in any way if you're using the Tempered Master Sword. But, it does work on bosses, strangely enough.

So, over the past while I've been writing a different 100% route (before ZFG even started his), and I have basically finished it. I'm missing 7 Maiamais from the route, so I'll add them when I find out which ones are missing when it's the most convenient. Let me know if I've missed anything else, or if something I have in the route is completely stupid and doesn't work, or there's just an obvious route change that I should make.

The Tempered Master Sword comes pretty late. L1 Master Sword for the Ice Ruins boss slows things down, and you don't even upgrade it in time for the Treacherous Tower. Even with being able to knock enemies down pits, that just kind of terrifies me.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 08:39:57 AM by Rdy »

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2013, 09:27:13 AM »
In terms of returning to area later for maiamais and whatnot, potentially just skipping bosses and returning to them might be faster in some cases. With butter blade sword and great spin from all maiamais, ive killed almost every boss within 30 seconds. The great spin has so much range and damage with butter blade, most bosses go to critical health in one hit. So if there was a time efficient way to skip the bosses until after great spin and butter blade is gotten, time in boss fights would be incredibly lowered from the testing ive done.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline Rdy

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 15
Re: 100%
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2013, 10:20:33 AM »
I think the Great Spin would potentially save time on Helmasaur, if not for the fact that there's a Maiamai inside the maze that ideally you would get after defeating Helmasaur because you skip most of the maze anyway..

Skull Woods is a definite possibility - I've already tested coming back with the Tempered Sword and it breaks about even on time, so coming back with the Gold Sword would probably end up saving time. The only thing is that ideally a Scoot Fruit would be routed in so you can get out quicker after getting the Big Key.

Desert Palace is a possibility - you get the Titan Mitts before you get the mid-way warp, making it a relatively low loss to leave the dungeon and come back later. I don't think you could kill the Desert Palace boss that much faster with Great Spin, though, so I don't personally think it'd be worth it. (He doesn't have extended periods of invincibility like the Skull Woods boss or Helmasaur.)

Swamp Palace and Ice Ruins wouldn't benefit much from better sword damage because most of the time is spent using items to deal with a particular phase of the boss. Turtle Rock I think would be the best possibility since all it would require is another warp to that Weather Vane. There's no need to go into the dungeon at all.

Offline thepuff273

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 7
Re: 100%
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2013, 11:34:08 AM »
Do you need the original bug catching net to get the upgraded one from the tower?
Also, would it be fast to do Thieve's Town (get master ore) and then get the Sanctuary master ore, then do sand temple to get the Titan Mitts fairly early for any maiamais? With this you'd also have the tempered sword for skull woods and wouldn't have to scoot fruit out halfway and backtrack.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2013, 11:37:17 AM »
It would have to be tested for every boss, using each sword level. But it would save time for some for sure. I know for a fact on the ice ruins boss. I beat him pretty quick with great spin, only two cycles. First cycle one great spin made him critical, second cycle one great spin and two quick slashes killed him. I believe swamp palace boss is killed in only two great spins once he is hopping around. Butter blade on skull woods makes it a three cycle fight. First to make him angry and purplish, and then two attack phases after that(i did this with butter blade, but no great spin). Great spin or not, butter blade definately saves time on boss fights in every way.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2013, 11:38:16 AM »
Do you need the original bug catching net to get the upgraded one from the tower?
Also, would it be fast to do Thieve's Town (get master ore) and then get the Sanctuary master ore, then do sand temple to get the Titan Mitts fairly early for any maiamais? With this you'd also have the tempered sword for skull woods and wouldn't have to scoot fruit out halfway and backtrack.
You cannot get Lorule Sanctuary Ore until you have Titan's Mitt from Desert Palace
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline thepuff273

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 7
Re: 100%
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2013, 11:59:43 AM »
You cannot get Lorule Sanctuary Ore until you have Titan's Mitt from Desert Palace

Then would getting Titan's Mitts, leaving, getting Sanctuary ore, then finishing sand and then going to Skull Woods be faster than leaving SW? Or is the Master ore less far through that dungeon than the Titan's Mitts are in Sand Palace?
Also would getting Titan's Mitts this early help save time collecting the Maiamais?

Offline Rdy

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 15
Re: 100%
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2013, 12:19:23 PM »
Then would getting Titan's Mitts, leaving, getting Sanctuary ore, then finishing sand and then going to Skull Woods be faster than leaving SW? Or is the Master ore less far through that dungeon than the Titan's Mitts are in Sand Palace?
Also would getting Titan's Mitts this early help save time collecting the Maiamais?

Not an explicitly large amount of time. The biggest thing about Titan's Mitts is to get it before Dark Palace, really. There's a few Maiamai in Hyrule you need the Titan's Mitts for, and in a few of those spaces there's a nearby Portal with another Maiamai you need Titan's Mitts for, so you really end up passing most of the Maiamai under large rocks just on the way to the Desert Palace anyway.

Doing the Desert Palace halfway is a very solid possibility, though, just given where the warp pads are located. It's only slightly out of the way in the entrance, but not only is the warp pad located near the outside where you could use Irene's Bell, it's also after Titan's Mitts and placed pretty much perfectly for that purpose. Desert Palace is probably the best dungeon to do halfway then finish later.

It would have to be tested for every boss, using each sword level. But it would save time for some for sure. I know for a fact on the ice ruins boss. I beat him pretty quick with great spin, only two cycles. First cycle one great spin made him critical, second cycle one great spin and two quick slashes killed him. I believe swamp palace boss is killed in only two great spins once he is hopping around. Butter blade on skull woods makes it a three cycle fight. First to make him angry and purplish, and then two attack phases after that(i did this with butter blade, but no great spin). Great spin or not, butter blade definately saves time on boss fights in every way.

The Ice Ruins boss is already three cycles without Great Spin, using both the Tempered Sword and the Butter Sword, and the mid-way portal of the dungeon is still kind of out of the way. We want to go in there to have the Scroll for Turtle Rock, and really, an additional cycle isn't extremely slow for that boss as compared to others. It might be a time-saver, but I think it would be kind of minimal, honestly. I'll try testing it out tomorrow morning, though.

The Swamp Palace boss doesn't really waste that much time when you've got him hopping around, plus you can use the Ice Rod to freeze him anyway. In ZFG's route, the Swamp Palace is the last dungeon, though, so it could very easily be possible to just get Great Spin before even going in the dungeon without losing much time.

The Skull Woods boss is likely, because in my timings it comes up roughly even to get the Master Ore and Big Key and come back later.

Do you need the original bug catching net to get the upgraded one from the tower?

Yes. Plus, chances are likely you'll need at least one fairy for the Tower without Blue Mail.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2013, 06:37:31 AM »
Yes. Plus, chances are likely you'll need at least one fairy for the Tower without Blue Mail.

Not anymore. Treacherous tower is super easy now, upgraded firerod and tornado rod are all that you need, except for one floor where the ice rod really helps, but with those two, all you may need is one red potion for final moldorm, maybe two if unlucky. Im almost at sub 6 minutes for treacherous tower and I keep getting closer.

Should we make a floor by floor guide for treacherous tower? to help for the 100% runs, cause I foresee the Treacherous Tower being a potential run killer, and since it comes late in a run, it would be really frustrating to mess up here. I got over half the floors memorized, so making a floor by floor guide would be easy. Respond if you want it, and ill make a new thread about it
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline thepuff273

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 7
Re: 100%
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2013, 10:16:55 AM »
Should we make a floor by floor guide for treacherous tower? to help for the 100% runs, cause I foresee the Treacherous Tower being a potential run killer, and since it comes late in a run, it would be really frustrating to mess up here. I got over half the floors memorized, so making a floor by floor guide would be easy. Respond if you want it, and ill make a new thread about it
A guide would be helpful. There are certain rooms that could pose issues without a solid strategy for them.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2013, 10:39:33 AM »
Alright, unless someone else makes one first, Ill make a new topic about the treacherous tower and my strats to beat it quick floor by floor. should have it done by tomorrow
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline mzxrules

  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 923
  • Wrong warp expert
Re: 100%
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2013, 04:10:50 PM »
Would be nice if the guide was on ZeldaSpeedRuns
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2013, 06:39:51 AM »
Would be nice if the guide was on ZeldaSpeedRuns
Yes it will be, at least the guide will be my own opinion open to criticism of course, but I will make it a new topic in the Link Between Worlds Forum
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: 100%
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2013, 09:20:49 AM »
I haven't seen it discussed here so I'll ask it: Should a 100% run have one of each fruit (Scoot and Foul) left unused in your inventory when you defeat Yuganon? I've been thinking you should have those, since they appear on the Items Menu. You can hold one of each at a time, so if a route plans to be using a Scoot Fruit to exit a dungeon, then another stop would have to be planned to rebuy the Scoot Fruit.

Also, kind of related, I've seen some talk (not sure if it's still the case) about completing the Skull Woods dungeon in 2 visits, first getting all the way to the Big Key, Scoot out, and coming back with a better sword to grab the green portal and take out the boss. If that were to be implemented in the route, along with having a spare of each fruit at the end of the game being mandatory, then maybe going through the Big Key room a second time (after grabbing the key) and using the south exit would be better than using a Scoot. That exit leads you out in the Woods, and let's you use Irene to Warp away. It might just be faster than having to go and buy another Scoot Fruit, plus would save the money.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2013, 10:04:47 AM »
I would agree that 100% should end with all item slots filled. Only thing that doesnt need to be filled are the bottles. they can be empty, for they only need to be collected.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline thepuff273

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 7
Re: 100%
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2013, 12:22:03 PM »
It might just be faster than having to go and buy another Scoot Fruit, plus would save the money.
You can only have 1 Scoot Fruit at a time, and a Scoot Fruit is definitely a fast way to do the Desert Palace. So you'd need another one regardless.
I would agree that 100% should end with all item slots filled. Only thing that doesnt need to be filled are the bottles. they can be empty, for they only need to be collected.
I disagree in this case. It would be different were the items something other than 1 time use. It's not like you need to make one of each potion during the run.

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: 100%
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2013, 02:05:49 PM »
I would agree that 100% should end with all item slots filled. Only thing that doesnt need to be filled are the bottles. they can be empty, for they only need to be collected.
Yes, my thoughts exactly. The only thing to add to that would be the Milk quest, that you would need to complete in order to have a fifth usable bottle

You can only have 1 Scoot Fruit at a time, and a Scoot Fruit is definitely a fast way to do the Desert Palace. So you'd need another one regardless.
Yes I know you can only have one of each (one Scoot, one Foul) at a time. What I meant is about Skull Woods is that, using the south exit of the boss key room instead of a scoot fruit MIGHT be faster, because in the end it saves one trip to the shop for a new Scoot Fruit, regardless of if you actually use a Scoot in another dungeon or not.

I disagree in this case. It would be different were the items something other than 1 time use. It's not like you need to make one of each potion during the run.
Yes but that is actually different. Potions/Bees/Fairies don't have their own spot in the Items Menu, they just fill up a Bottle. The two fruits, however, do have their own spot in that menu. So, by having one of each during the Yuganon fight, you end up with a full inventory when Zelda gives you the Light Bow. The fact that it disappears from the menu after you use it (unlike remaining there with a pale "0" written on it, like the Deku Sticks in OOT and stuff) make me think we should require the player to have one Scoot and one Foul in hand during the Yaganon fight.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2013, 02:49:27 PM »
Good now that a lot of these issues are worked out, can an official 100% category and rules be added now? like make a list and have the community vote on it for the rules? Because I'm excited to get started running this and I have to wait to make sure I don't break any rules.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline thepuff273

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 7
Re: 100%
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2013, 04:23:43 PM »
The two fruits, however, do have their own spot in that menu.
I'd like to quote something TestRunner said in regards to defining SS 100%: "If you can get an unlimited number of something, there's no reason to require it." These fruits, while appearing in the inventory, are infinitely attainable. So I still feel they should be excluded from the 100% definition.

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: 100%
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2013, 05:00:24 PM »
I'd like to quote something TestRunner said in regards to defining SS 100%: "If you can get an unlimited number of something, there's no reason to require it." These fruits, while appearing in the inventory, are infinitely attainable. So I still feel they should be excluded from the 100% definition.
That is a good point. In the end I suppose it will all come down to which way of thinking we will follow. It'll be either something the OOT's "obtain all items on the Item Select subscreen", or something like the SS's "If you can get an unlimited number of something, there's no reason to require it." I'm personnaly in favor of the first option (eh, who would have guessed xD), but I suppose it won't really matter after all, since all it will change is a ~1minute added to every 100% run and a need for 80 (? or 75?) more rupees.

Offline thepuff273

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 7
Re: 100%
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2013, 05:09:47 PM »
80 (? or 75?) more rupees.
80 rupees, just for clarification.

Another thing I don't remember seeing in this forum, are we requiring the first shield?

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: 100%
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2013, 05:26:31 PM »
Another thing I don't remember seeing in this forum, are we requiring the first shield?
If the Shield you get in Turtle Rock is the Hylian Shield, even if you don't have the first shield with you (which I am pretty sure it is), then no we don't require it. (Like we wouldn't require the Blue Mail if you could get the Red one without it, like in ALTTP, but it doesn't work like that this time around.)

Offline Rdy

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 15
Re: 100%
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2013, 08:23:50 AM »
Not anymore. Treacherous tower is super easy now, upgraded firerod and tornado rod are all that you need, except for one floor where the ice rod really helps, but with those two, all you may need is one red potion for final moldorm, maybe two if unlucky. Im almost at sub 6 minutes for treacherous tower and I keep getting closer.

Should we make a floor by floor guide for treacherous tower? to help for the 100% runs, cause I foresee the Treacherous Tower being a potential run killer, and since it comes late in a run, it would be really frustrating to mess up here. I got over half the floors memorized, so making a floor by floor guide would be easy. Respond if you want it, and ill make a new thread about it

I saw your guide, and I responded with the primary issue there, but I'll also point it out here.

We can't have Great Spin for the Treacherous Tower. To have Great Spin, you must also have all 9 Items be upgraded by Mother Maiamai. While I don't think anyone has done an in-depth study, I think it's extremely likely that the Treacherous Tower w/o Great Spin wastes less time than getting all those rupees from another source.

Additionally, since the Treacherous Tower is one of our main sources for money, it actually comes quite early into the run, which makes it even more frustrating and punishing to mess up. Last night I died at Moldorm and lost 11 mins on what would otherwise have been a sub-5 hours.

After my modifications to what ZFG posted for a route, I do the Treacherous Tower with 12 hearts and green mail. Even once I get really good at it, I don't think I would go in without safety fairies ever especially since there's a Maiamai en route directly to a fairy fountain anyway.

Edit: I am entertaining the idea of Blue Mail early, though, which would trivialize the TT.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 08:25:59 AM by Rdy »

Offline Hitaka

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 23
  • Phoenix
Re: 100%
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2013, 03:23:50 AM »
I hate to break it to you guys, but the giant cucco appears in the credits. Clearing the endless cucco game is required for best ending. Better start practicing.

Life itself is that which is eternal.

Offline Rdy

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 15
Re: 100%
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2013, 07:41:24 AM »
I hate to break it to you guys, but the giant cucco appears in the credits. Clearing the endless cucco game is required for best ending. Better start practicing.



Welp.

Honestly I just tried Endless for the first time and got to 350 seconds without pause strats. It's actually a lot easier than Advanced IMO, but it might just be because I have to do Advanced so much just to get a run going.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: 100%
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2013, 12:19:25 PM »
I hate to break it to you guys, but the giant cucco appears in the credits. Clearing the endless cucco game is required for best ending. Better start practicing.



Yea.... but the time for a run stops at getting the Triforce. No runs include watching the credits... So basically no giant Cucco. Screw that as criteria for a 100% run. Would be so stupid.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline mzxrules

  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 923
  • Wrong warp expert
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline Pedalpowertoast

  • Site Editor
  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 508
  • I'm an artist :O
Re: 100%
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2013, 02:51:30 AM »
mzx pls...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Pedalpowerluigi

Using a slow version on purpose is your choice, but you will get no sympathy or agreement from me.
Lol

Offline akaikee

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 4
Re: 100%
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2013, 10:11:11 AM »
Tomrrow i start working on a very detailed 100% route. I dont have that much time because AGDQ is around the corner an im in charge of the german restream, but if someone wants a link to the google doc im working on and maybe even wants to help - just shoot me a pm :)