Author Topic: 100%  (Read 31583 times)

Offline Chamros

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100%
« on: November 25, 2013, 10:00:48 AM »
What would be required for a 100% run? On my hero mode file I tried to get 100% but then I didn't care for time. Obviously all heart pieces and all items (upgraded if possible, like lv3 master sword, red mail and hylian shield) on the 'gear' tab, and all 100 Maiamais.

Would getting blue mail be necessary?  Because when you get red mail, it just 'overwrites' the blue mail. And would upgrading all items be necessary? And getting the great spin attack?

Also, the bee badge is kinda RNG dependant. I got like 5 gold bees on my 2nd playthrough but none on my 1st. I ended up accidentally buying one in the skull woods for 888 rupees from some dude in a cave...

Offline Hornlitz

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Re: 100%
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 10:53:30 AM »
I'd say the blue mail wouldn't be necessary. Just like the Goron Bracelet and Silver Gauntlets aren't counted in OoT 100%. And yeah, upgrading all items should probably be counted including getting the great spin. As for the Bee Badge, just plan the route out to get the 888 rupee one, but have some optional rupee chests cut out alon the if you get it the rng way.

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 10:59:54 AM »
I'd like to think that all of this is required... I'm sure a lot of people will agree:

* All 20 Hearts
* All Items (Bought and upgraded)
* 100 Maiamai's (obviously need these for the upgrade, but still)
* Great Spin (100 Maiamai reward)
* Level 2 Master Sword (Butter Blade)
* Stamina Scroll (skippable?? I think, but it's in the gear menu)
* Bee Badge (it's in the gear menu)
* Hylian Shield (skippable, but it's an upgrade)
* Pegasus Boots (in case someone finds some glitch to do the race without them, they still show up in the gear menu)
* Red mail (Best mail) - I guess, like ALTTP, the Blue one isn't required if you can go straight to red.
* Hint Glasses - not a fan of this but it is an item and it does show up in the menus...
* All 5 Bottles
* Bug Net

I think I'm missing something, if I am... feel free to correct me.


ALSO, I would like to route in just buying the Golden Bee to get rid of some bullshit reset fest of no golden bee before Lorule... But we all know we'll probably just go for RNG...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 11:08:21 AM by Volvagia »

Offline Chamros

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Re: 100%
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 11:06:13 AM »
You missed the 5 bottles. (And maybe the bugnet, since I guess it's skippable if you get the golden bee for 888 rupees)

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 11:07:57 AM »
You missed the 5 bottles. (And maybe the bugnet, since I guess it's skippable if you get the golden bee for 888 rupees)

Added. Good point.

Offline mzxrules

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Re: 100%
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 12:41:35 PM »
There's apparently a bug net and lantern upgrade for completing the last level of tower of treachery twice or whatever its called.
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
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This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline Chamros

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Re: 100%
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 01:05:40 PM »
There's apparently a bug net and lantern upgrade for completing the last level of tower of treachery twice or whatever its called.

I'll go test that right now, will report back soon..

edit: ok so yea, theres 2 upgrades, both require you to complete advanced (3rd difficulty, you get the HP from completing the 2nd) in treacherous tower. This also earns you like 4-5k rupees per completion.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 01:30:29 PM by Chamros »

Offline Hornlitz

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Re: 100%
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 01:13:51 PM »
There's apparently a bug net and lantern upgrade for completing the last level of tower of treachery twice or whatever its called.

The official guide book says this, so I'd assume it's right. It would count towards 100%.

Offline CloudMax

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Re: 100%
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 01:25:08 PM »
It is correct. I have both upgrades. It makes them 8 times stronger, and prefix them with "Good".
First Lantern, then Net. (So you must do 2 runs, and clear the 2 previous difficulties) You need original net to upgrade it obviously.

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 02:22:19 PM »
This is true, there is a super bug and super lamp... it may also be a good place to get money in 100% (the tower)

New List:


* All 20 Hearts
* All Items (Bought and upgraded)
* 100 Maiamai's (obviously need these for the upgrade, but still)
* Great Spin (100 Maiamai reward)
* Level 2 Master Sword (Butter Blade)
* Stamina Scroll (skippable?? I think, but it's in the gear menu)
* Bee Badge (it's in the gear menu)
* Hylian Shield (skippable, but it's an upgrade)
* Pegasus Boots (in case someone finds some glitch to do the race without them, they still show up in the gear menu)
* Red mail (Best mail) - I guess, like ALTTP, the Blue one isn't required if you can go straight to red.
* Hint Glasses - not a fan of this but it is an item and it does show up in the menus...
* All 5 Bottles
* Super Bug Net
* Super Lamp

Offline zellpree

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Re: 100%
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 04:14:30 PM »
Just for convenience, here is a list of all HP, and how to get them
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/A_Link_Between_Worlds_Heart_Pieces

Maimai's
http://www.ign.com/wikis/the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds/Maiamai_Locations

This is the category I am really looking forward to, like, I am so hyped for this. 

Offline Hornlitz

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Re: 100%
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 04:32:13 PM »
Would Activating all of the Bird statues count towards 100%? And what about entering the Fissures? Both of those appear on the map, so should we count them?

Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 11:44:17 PM »
You definitely need to survive the endless cucco minigame for 999 seconds to get the cucco in link's house reward for true 100%.

In all seriousness I think that all compasses should be added to the list. I also agree that activating all weather vanes should be added, but I'm not sure about "all fissures." Fissures are always accessible and they don't count as a collectible unless you consider updating the map as a collectible. Either way, I vote no on that seeing as that would potentially be a pain in the ass for 100%.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 12:02:05 AM by Crankeey »

Offline CloudMax

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Re: 100%
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2013, 01:29:51 AM »
You definitely need to survive the endless cucco minigame for 999 seconds to get the cucco in link's house reward for true 100%.

In all seriousness I think that all compasses should be added to the list. I also agree that activating all weather vanes should be added, but I'm not sure about "all fissures." Fissures are always accessible and they don't count as a collectible unless you consider updating the map as a collectible. Either way, I vote no on that seeing as that would potentially be a pain in the ass for 100%.

You'd honestly enter most ot the fissueres in 100% either way, because many of them leads to Maiamai which aren't obtainable otherwise, others take you to the next zone in Lorule, so it wouldn't make a big difference at all. I wouldn't really care if it's required or not, but I am pretty sure that it wouldn't be a big difference, probably a few of the Stone Pillar Fissuers would be removed, and maybe at a river, but that's about all I can think of right now.

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2013, 01:57:45 PM »
Forgot to put this in this topic, I posted it in the Glitches/Tricks/Timesaving topic earlier:

Swamp Palace early switch via upgraded Bow thought of by FaschZ, ZFG and myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PZdyNhCzEI

Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 10:36:59 PM »
You'd honestly enter most ot the fissueres in 100% either way, because many of them leads to Maiamai which aren't obtainable otherwise, others take you to the next zone in Lorule, so it wouldn't make a big difference at all. I wouldn't really care if it's required or not, but I am pretty sure that it wouldn't be a big difference, probably a few of the Stone Pillar Fissuers would be removed, and maybe at a river, but that's about all I can think of right now.

Okay so it probably wouldn't be hard to accomplish. Either way, seeing as how you're not required to get every chest in a dungeon even though it updates the dungeon map you shouldn't be required to enter all fissures for the same reason. They're always accessible, unlike the weather vanes you need to activate in order to have them unlocked.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

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Re: 100%
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2013, 10:18:01 AM »
Getting 999 seconds for a 100% run sounds completely stupid. Surviving for 17 minutes in that game is super nearly impossible hard. Making that an official rule for 100% would lead to very very few runs being actually completed. and any runs completed would all have to be segmented so runners could repeat that segment hundreds of times until they got it so time wouldn't be lost. I personally vote no for this requirement. Unlock endless mode by beating advanced for heart piece, that's it... ;)
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2013, 11:31:43 AM »
Getting 999 seconds for a 100% run sounds completely stupid. Surviving for 17 minutes in that game is super nearly impossible hard. Making that an official rule for 100% would lead to very very few runs being actually completed. and any runs completed would all have to be segmented so runners could repeat that segment hundreds of times until they got it so time wouldn't be lost. I personally vote no for this requirement. Unlock endless mode by beating advanced for heart piece, that's it... ;)

...the better question is why people are still discussing this, joke or not.

Offline CloudMax

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Re: 100%
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2013, 12:29:32 PM »
Okay so it probably wouldn't be hard to accomplish. Either way, seeing as how you're not required to get every chest in a dungeon even though it updates the dungeon map you shouldn't be required to enter all fissures for the same reason. They're always accessible, unlike the weather vanes you need to activate in order to have them unlocked.

Yes, I totally understand. I'm not saying that I actually want them to be entered, I just mean that it wouldn't make a difference to me. I would honestly prefer if it wasn't required though.
And to be honest, I've never liked the idea of skipping dungeon chests, I always collect them all in my 100% files, which I can imagine most people would do, but it's simply not required in speeruns because people don't want to bother with it, which to be honest is a shitty reason. Requiring them would make for more interesting dungeon routes, and tricks, which would improve the watching value. Dungeons will basically be identical to any% in a 100% at this point.
However, I know no one will ever change the 100% definition to include a thing such as dungeon chests because at this point everyone consider it useless and dumb, so I won't even bother trying to convince anyone of this, ever. (Hell, people even think getting compass shouldn't be required, how would I ever convince them to get a monster gut or rupee chest)

Offline zT DeFuZeD

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Re: 100%
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »
Yes, I totally understand. I'm not saying that I actually want them to be entered, I just mean that it wouldn't make a difference to me. I would honestly prefer if it wasn't required though.
And to be honest, I've never liked the idea of skipping dungeon chests, I always collect them all in my 100% files, which I can imagine most people would do, but it's simply not required in speeruns because people don't want to bother with it, which to be honest is a shitty reason. Requiring them would make for more interesting dungeon routes, and tricks, which would improve the watching value. Dungeons will basically be identical to any% in a 100% at this point.
However, I know no one will ever change the 100% definition to include a thing such as dungeon chests because at this point everyone consider it useless and dumb, so I won't even bother trying to convince anyone of this, ever. (Hell, people even think getting compass shouldn't be required, how would I ever convince them to get a monster gut or rupee chest)
Here is a thought... probably won't happen.... but why not not split the 100% category into two categories. One called 100% regular, and one called 100%(plus 100% dungeons) that way there is no arguing. just a thought I dunno. I just hope some "official" rules come out soon so I can actually try to make a legal run at this.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 03:42:51 PM »
I don't consider opening all dungeon chests "useless and dumb," but there are reasons to not include it. TP is a good reason. If you're maxed out on rupees (easy to do) you have to put them back in the chest which would mean leaving the dungeon and buying shit to open up every chest. Not to mention opening up every overworld chest would be necessary with the same logic and that's nealy impossible to prove in a speedrun.

-Defuzed, the reason for defining 100% is to avoid separate official categories, not to create more...

Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »
Here's a poll people can vote for what's necessary in 100%. It was shared in #albw and Alphaparticle wanted someone to post it for him https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OVZRPwZSWuTLF4g462WES_kw6pw4ZaxqzYOvenza0qE/viewform

Offline corneliab

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Re: 100%
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2013, 11:24:40 PM »
I'm seeing all this talk about going straight to the red mail... does this actually work? I would think that Lorule Castle's chest would give you the blue mail if you don't have it already, with the swamp's chest then giving you red at that point.

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2013, 06:37:48 AM »
Here's a poll people can vote for what's necessary in 100%. It was shared in #albw and Alphaparticle wanted someone to post it for him https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OVZRPwZSWuTLF4g462WES_kw6pw4ZaxqzYOvenza0qE/viewform

...why are half of these even options? The only thing that should even be debated is the compasses.... the rest of these are either complete obvious Yes choices or completely retarded choices... such as the 999 second Cucco game. Not a single person will ever do this in a run... I'm guessing you're just goofing around and joking with it.

I'm seeing all this talk about going straight to the red mail... does this actually work? I would think that Lorule Castle's chest would give you the blue mail if you don't have it already, with the swamp's chest then giving you red at that point.

In the logic of ALTTP, even though this isn't ALTTP, it would work... They're two separate items and probably do not have flags attached to each other... Give it a try in a file sometime if you're super curious, but it's 99% likely we can go straight to red mail.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:39:23 AM by Volvagia »

Offline alphaparticle

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Re: 100%
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2013, 09:06:57 AM »
...why are half of these even options? The only thing that should even be debated is the compasses.... the rest of these are either complete obvious Yes choices or completely retarded choices... such as the 999 second Cucco game. Not a single person will ever do this in a run... I'm guessing you're just goofing around and joking with it.
I put everything I could think of -- I pulled most of it from this very thread. I didn't even know 999 cucco was a thing until I read it here. Yes most are obvious (as I even said in the doc). No it wasn't meant to be official. I just wanted to see what people were split on. It's obviously not a super serious poll. <'><

Offline Rdy

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Re: 100%
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2013, 10:08:21 AM »
Blue Mail might be a good idea depending on how early Treacherous Tower is done, which the earlier, the better, since it's the #1 way for rupees and we have to clear it four times anyway for all upgrades. Not exactly a necessity, but a luxury, for sure. How much time is lost from getting the Blue Mail, anyway? I don't recall it being explicitly out of the way.. I think.

Offline zT DeFuZeD

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Re: 100%
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2013, 10:43:07 AM »
Yes, but in all honesty, the treacherous tower is actually quite easy to do. Since this is only done in 100% percent you obviously will have everything(besides red mail) already aqcuired. So take upgraded fire rod and tornado rod+ great spin attack. This makes treacherous tower the 50 floors of boom all dead in seconds tower. ;D
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Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2013, 11:50:12 AM »
...why are half of these even options? The only thing that should even be debated is the compasses.... the rest of these are either complete obvious Yes choices or completely retarded choices... such as the 999 second Cucco game. Not a single person will ever do this in a run... I'm guessing you're just goofing around and joking with it.
When I first brought it up I was joking about the cucco, I had no idea others would actually take it seriously. Also, not my poll ._.

For what actually matters:
-No compasses, it seems people generally prefer this and it's best to stay consistent with alttp 100% rules where applicable.
-All weather vanes, ZFG's been routing it this way and it's a logical decision, most will agree.
-Portals aren't required, there are some portals that aren't necessary to go through yes, but there's no reason to merge through all of them. There's no reward and they're always active as said before.

I say we just add weather vanes to the list and finalize it.

Offline alphaparticle

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Re: 100%
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2013, 12:37:11 PM »
When I first brought it up I was joking about the cucco, I had no idea others would actually take it seriously. Also, not my poll ._.
I didn't take it very seriously. I added it to the poll because it's a thing in the game. I think it's silly that anyone got upset about such a poll.

Why even discuss what constitutes "100%" if you're going to automatically dismiss a few things? I agree with the general opinion here (yes weather vanes, no compasses or portals) but I wasn't going to exclude things because of that, even if it seems really stupid (maxed minigames).

Offline Rdy

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Re: 100%
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2013, 01:31:16 PM »
We discuss it because quite simply there's nothing that actively tracks the % you have completed the game as. Some things are relevant for dismissal for a lot of reasons. A completionist, like I, would talk to every single NPC and read every single point of dialog available, but do we count that as part of 100%? No, not really.

In Zelda games, most people consider anything that increases power or utility as part of 100%. Weather Vanes increase utility because it increases the amount of places you can warp to. Playing a Cucco Minigame for 20 minutes to get a statue that is purely cosmetic is neither of these. Similarly, OoT 100% doesn't get the Cow in Link's House.

That said, filling out the map with the Portals doesn't really increase either power or utility because they're always there anyway.

--

I've been working on a 100% route last night and today. I'm about to head into work for a double-shift, so I won't be able to complete it until probably Monday. This pastebin details how far I've gotten. There's a few mistakes in the numbers that I need to revise once I go back through it again.

The basic idea goes:
. Follow any% route except get more $$$ until Lorule
. Thieves Hideout -> Skull Woods -> Tempered Sword & Hyrule Minigames -> Swamp Vane -> Ice Ruins -> Desert Palace -> Lorule Minigames (Possibly?) -> Dark Palace
. From there, general clean up with a few necessities: need to get lots of rupees, likely from the Treacherous Tower. Lots and lots of rupees. A lot of Maiamai clean-up. Last two dungeons in whichever order shows to be optimal. Buttered Master Sword whenever.
. Finish game.

I won't get to play but I'll try to keep up with the thread over the weekend, if anyone has comments or concerns on this. The final clean-up is very rough in my mind as I haven't been able to mark down notes while playing through what I think will work.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 01:40:56 PM by Rdy »

Offline Volvagia

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Re: 100%
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2013, 08:38:08 PM »
Since ZFG is incipacitated with trying his route out in a real run:

Skipping Blue Mail is NOT AN OPTION - the chest for Red Mail will give you Blue Mail if you skip Blue Mail in Swamp Palace.

Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2013, 08:42:02 PM »
I was thinking the blue mail might actually be worthwhile either way for treacherous tower since it's not very far out of the way and more dangerous kamikaze strats could be used to make up for lost time.

As for all the items that need to be purchased I believe they all sell for 800 rupees and there's the 3000 rupees for the bottle.

9 items820 * 97200
2 bottles3000+1003100
minigames/misc~10001000

total being about 11300 rupees. I believe that 9000 for safe estimate can be knocked out from the treacherous tower alone (got over 5000 2nd time I beat the 50 levels and beating my previous time).
Note: When routing this link should enter with rupees at or slightly above the cost of the first entry level.

Brings the total down to 2300 rupees. After buying all the items, the best way to collect the remaining rupees in my opinion would be to open any rupee chests/collect rupees that are directly or almost directly in links path over the course of the speedrun (no idea what that would add up to).

Total goes down 2300 - MiscRupees
 Preferably at the very near end of the run, rupees should be spent on the 5th bottle (3000 rupees). If more rupees are needed I would suggest playing rupee rush until you have enough rupees to cover the expense of the bottle. In ~3-5 minutes you could bring the total down to 0 just from that minigame with good rupee rush strats/timing.

Edit: Forgot the 888 rupees for the golden bee, but all this means is that right before/after purchasing ravio items to buy this at skull woods and rupee rush will probably be necessary. Unless of course we start relying on RNG or somebody finds a way to manipulate the golden bee spawn to catch one in under 3 minutes so it doesn't need to be purchased.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 09:27:52 PM by Crankeey »

Offline Rdy

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Re: 100%
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2013, 10:15:51 PM »
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Blue Mail is a good idea. My runs of Treacherous Tower on my casual 100% were with 20 hearts, Blue Mail, Butter Master Sword, and Great Spin, and both times on Advanced I finished Moldorm with a Quarter of a Heart. Fifty floors isn't exactly something to sneeze at, even with the Nice Hammer/Nice Tornado Rod at your disposal. I'm honestly relieved that it will be required for Red Mail, now.

I did some quick runs of TT to count the profits:

Beginner - Costs 100 Rupees. Completion dropped 10 * Red Rupee, 10 * Blue Rupee, 20 * Green Rupee, for a profit of 170 Rupees. (Also got a Purple Rupee for prize)
. time taken - 31 seconds

Intermediate - Costs 200 Rupees. Completion dropped 5 * Silver Rupee, 3* Purple Rupee, 8 * Red Rupee, 6 * Blue Rupee, 5 * Green Rupee, for a profit of 645 Rupees. (Silver Rupee for prize but irrelevant because we only do Int once for Heart Piece)
. time taken - 1 minute 50 seconds

Additionally, my Advanced run has a time of 8 minutes, and I went from 500 Rupees to 9999 from the two runs. I estimate prize drops to be 4000-5000. Fortunately, with the Ice Ruins relatively early in the route (a necessity for the Scroll, which has at least 20 seconds of saved time), all that's needed is a warp to Lorule Death Mountain at whatever point the Treacherous Tower is placed at. Most likely, this will occur after both Great Spin and Butter Master Sword, for obvious reasons. If the TT could somehow be completed with minimal time lost with the Tempered Master Sword, it might could occur before Great Spin to reduce one visit to Mother Maiamai. Theoretically speaking. I don't expect that to be a thing though.

Lorule Rupee Rush would not be a good method of making money. There are plenty of easy-to-access Gold Chests, and with the profits made from succeeding at all the minigames should cover the final costs. In fact, in my preliminary routing, I probably am grabbing rupee chests far, far too liberally.

Offline Hornlitz

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Re: 100%
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2013, 10:29:04 PM »
I think the best way to do this then is buy the Tornado Rod and one more item (bow maybe, or perhaps bombs) sometime before we do Treacherous, upgrade them and then do treacherous tower with it (although is it really worth it to take the time to upgrade them just for Treacherous?), and then use the rupees you get from Treacherous to buy the rest of the items and the 3000 rupee bottle. I forget how to get the Great Spin, but if that is the reward for all 100 Maiamais, then I suppose we'll have to do Treacherous without it.

For my route, we'd have beaten Thieves', Sand, Swamp, and Skull Woods before we do Treacherous (I propose we do it right before we go through death mountain), and so that would be at the very least 10 hearts, and at least one more because of heart pieces, which doesn't seem ridiculously out of the question.

Offline ZFG

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Re: 100%
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2013, 10:42:04 PM »
I finished my first draft of my 100% route http://pastebin.com/VVrBY0UG .  It's kinda sloppily written since I'm lazy but should be readable.

I did a run with this and got 5:02:36.  I'm sure this route is far from perfect but it feels like it flows very well.  I'm sure there's plenty of possible improvements but this is just a first version.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 09:34:42 PM by ZFG »
Quote
I for one think that there are no glitches in OoT. It's just gameshark codes.

RBA stands for Rare Bird Adventure. We call it that because we need to get the blue cucco in order to use it.

Offline Crankeey

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Re: 100%
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2013, 12:33:13 AM »
lol ZFG: "activate blacksmiths text by going away a screen and back????"

I think the route looks like a solid start. I see no reason to buy the bee badge until the last visit to kak as there's no benefit to it. The only thing that rupees should be spent on before TT are renting items and minigames. Also the bottle should definitely be bought after you return to kak to buy the net.

Offline mzxrules

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Re: 100%
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2013, 02:28:24 AM »
lol ZFG: "activate blacksmiths text by going away a screen and back????"

I think the route looks like a solid start. I see no reason to buy the bee badge until the last visit to kak as there's no benefit to it. The only thing that rupees should be spent on before TT are renting items and minigames. Also the bottle should definitely be bought after you return to kak to buy the net.

Suddenly, game over due to bees.

On a more serious note, there's a potential run killer with maiamais http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0v5gjtuqeg
It could be that the count is wrong, or it could be the Deku Stick upgrade sort of thing
Quote from:  Leigh Rogers
Braid
This is art because the music is classical music, and the graphics are done with a pen. The story is something about a woman. I could not understand much of this to be honest, which makes it even more likely to be an art.

Offline Rdy

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Re: 100%
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2013, 07:49:53 AM »
I'm sure we can still do Ice Ruins before Desert Palace in 100%. There's no Maiamai under any large rocks that require Titan Mitts in the portion of Hyrule's Death Mountains that you visit nor the Ice Mines/Ice Ruins portion of Lorule's Death Mountains, so you wouldn't return a second time following obtaining the Titan Mitts. The way my route has it is to activate the Misery Mire Weather Vane, warp to Hyrule, but go straight to Death Mountains. Once you finish Ice Ruins, warp straight to Misery Mire, and the amount of time saved from having the scroll to enter dungeon outweighs the time lost from the extra portal usage. The Maiamai in that area can be grabbed easily before or after the dungeon. Just an example since I had it planned to do most of the minigames before Ice Ruins.

Going to give ZFG's route an actual run-through pretty soon.

As for the Maiamai bug, I thought it might be if you "discover" a Maiamai but don't pick it up that would cause that, but upon testing it, that didn't work. The count lowers when you pick up the Maiamai. Interesting issue, and hopefully it's not because a Maiamai just outright stopped existing for some strange reason.

Edit: One potential problem is how early the cucco game is. I got three shots at the Rooster level, which admittedly should be enough but I'm bad and, well.. fat cuccos happened.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22765223/IMG_20131201_110606.jpg (Pictured: 6 fat cuccos [one under the text box] on the same half of the field)

Edit 2: Completed a run at 6:48:13, with a few small breaks and general faffing about here and there.

I think the big thing that bothers me is the timing of the Treacherous Tower. With the Great Spin, I can complete the Advanced stages in 8 minutes; however, at the point in the route it is timed (14 hearts, green mail, no Nice weapons) my faster run was a little over 11 minutes. I'm definitely not explicitly good yet, and had to spend some time being careful, but the Great Spin still has a tremendous difference on those 50 floors.

I'm also confused about why the route gets the Weather Vane to Turtle Rock, then goes to do Ice Ruins. Is there something you wanted the Scroll for Turtle Rock?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 04:33:38 PM by Rdy »

Offline ZFG

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Re: 100%
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2013, 06:58:52 PM »
I think the route looks like a solid start. I see no reason to buy the bee badge until the last visit to kak as there's no benefit to it. The only thing that rupees should be spent on before TT are renting items and minigames. Also the bottle should definitely be bought after you return to kak to buy the net.

I put the bee badge where it is to get rid of the golden bee as soon as possible to free it up for fairies for TT.  I was considering adding in the skull woods area cleanup (which is when you would buy the golden bee) after titans mitt so you get the one under the titans mitt rock at that time too but didn't test it out yet. 
I'm sure we can still do Ice Ruins before Desert Palace in 100%. There's no Maiamai under any large rocks that require Titan Mitts in the portion of Hyrule's Death Mountains that you visit nor the Ice Mines/Ice Ruins portion of Lorule's Death Mountains, so you wouldn't return a second time following obtaining the Titan Mitts. The way my route has it is to activate the Misery Mire Weather Vane, warp to Hyrule, but go straight to Death Mountains. Once you finish Ice Ruins, warp straight to Misery Mire, and the amount of time saved from having the scroll to enter dungeon outweighs the time lost from the extra portal usage. The Maiamai in that area can be grabbed easily before or after the dungeon. Just an example since I had it planned to do most of the minigames before Ice Ruins.
This sounds like it should be a good idea, as long as you route in getting the bottled letter/premium milk before it as well.  I was never able to get anything less than 3 cycles on the ice ruins boss with gold sword, and lv2 sword also does it in 3 cycles so I guess you're not really losing much time not having it.  You also don't have the nice fire rod but that really doesn't save that much time in IR anyway.

I think the big thing that bothers me is the timing of the Treacherous Tower. With the Great Spin, I can complete the Advanced stages in 8 minutes; however, at the point in the route it is timed (14 hearts, green mail, no Nice weapons) my faster run was a little over 11 minutes. I'm definitely not explicitly good yet, and had to spend some time being careful, but the Great Spin still has a tremendous difference on those 50 floors.

I'm also confused about why the route gets the Weather Vane to Turtle Rock, then goes to do Ice Ruins. Is there something you wanted the Scroll for Turtle Rock?
I do TT as early as possible to get all the rupees needed as soon as possible.  If you want to upgrade anything before TT, you're going to need to go out of your way for rupees.  The rupees you get there have you set for the rest of the game so it seems like a good placement for getting upgrades decently early + not needing to go out of your way for rupees + having the best sword to go decently fast.

As for the turtle rock weather vane, you do use the ice rod a bunch so the stamina scroll seems like it would save time.  Also, the last maiamai in the lorule lake cleanup is right next to a portal so it's much faster getting to hyrule from there than after IR.

One other thing I'm not sure about is the placement for skull woods, specifically for the boss.  He takes forever with the Lv1 master sword and the Lv2 would definitely help, but doing dark palace before desert is probably not a good idea and desert with Lv1 also sounds bad. idk
Quote
I for one think that there are no glitches in OoT. It's just gameshark codes.

RBA stands for Rare Bird Adventure. We call it that because we need to get the blue cucco in order to use it.

Offline CloudMax

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Re: 100%
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2013, 04:01:36 AM »
Would it be faster to do this clip to skip grabbing the additional big bomb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0V6T2Dc-7Q
I looked at the route, and it seems like it would be faster to do that after finishing swamp palace. However, I've failed to do the clip multiple times. It seems too risky unless someone can find a position that makes it succeed every time.
Would be great if someone could find a faster way to get up on the ledge above the big boulder. I tried using enemies in the corner there and tornado rod, but I didn't manage to get up on the ledge. I bet it's possible somehow.

This should also save a few seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRCxHdaL4E
Not sure if people already knew about this.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 04:05:42 AM by CloudMax »