Author Topic: Any% route discussion  (Read 33819 times)

Offline tdutchnick96

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 3
Any% route discussion
« on: November 22, 2013, 05:57:04 AM »
.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 11:18:58 AM by tdutchnick96 »
Bo

Offline Paraxade

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 229
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2013, 05:23:43 PM »
I haven't finished the game yet, I just wanna post somewhere that if you get the Stamina Scroll from the Ice Ruins, you can skip some of the puzzles leading up to the desert temple. You're supposed to travel between Hyrule and Lorule a couple times and use the Sand Rod to navigate the desert, but with the increased gauge you can just merge with the wall and skip most of it. Dunno if it would save enough time to warrant going out of the way to get the Stamina Scroll or shuffle dungeons around to make it work.

Also someone please please please find a way to regain control of Link after using the Tornado Rod, there would be soo many skips. (getting hit with a bomb doesn't work)

Offline zellpree

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 10
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2013, 05:33:31 PM »
With the Lorule route, I would like to see Ice palace, then Desert Palace, followed by Thieves Town, and skull woods.

And there is actually a boss skip in the skull woods, which is interesting, (I think it's a form of clipping with an enemy/boss??)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP-xlpWZgyY

Offline ZFG

  • Moderator
  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 659
  • also pheenoh <3
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 01:50:19 PM »
The best lorule route I have come up with so far is

Enter lorule
Thieves town
get ore and complete + a bunch of rupees (as much as 500ish)
south of kakariko, get big bomb
take to swamp
swamp palace
north of swamp to vacant house
hyrule
rent everything from ravio (you would want hammer, bow, tornado rod, bombs and hookshot before going to lorule)
go to the portal in the rocky area of hyrule field
go to dark palace
get ore and complete
vacant house, hyrule, upgrade sword
hera
ice palace, stamina scroll
turtle rock
desert palace
skull woods

Notes:
Thieves town is extremely close to where you start in lorule so it seems like the best option as the first dungeon

Right after Thieves is the closest in the run you'll be to the big bomb place so it seems best to get it now.  Having the titans mitt would make the trip to swamp about 15 seconds faster but would be 2 extra warps + more irene text

After swamp you're pretty close to the vacant house so it's really fast to just go straight up and buy out ravio
Also if you suck, getting the blue mail early on here is nice and costs very little time

After that you're pretty close to the portal closest to dark palace so it seems like a good fit there

I'm not entirely sure if upgrading the sword will be worth it, but a lot of the later enemies and bosses do take a lot of hits, and the ores do not take very long to get at all.  Upgrading the sword itself might be about a minute loss.  Will need to be timed but I think it'll be worth it.

Ice ruins next for the stamina scroll, you'll use ice rod a bunch in turtle rock + the trick parax mentioned so this seems like a good time to do it

Desert palace should be done as late as possible to avoid as much extra irene text as possible, so turtle rock - desert - skull woods seems like the best ending
Quote
I for one think that there are no glitches in OoT. It's just gameshark codes.

RBA stands for Rare Bird Adventure. We call it that because we need to get the blue cucco in order to use it.

Offline zellpree

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 10
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 05:42:21 PM »
One thing that is quite arguable, is the second pouch worth it?

It's not too terribly out of the way (After beating the first dungeon, enter Your House, leave, Go where second pouch is and get it)

I mean, I wouldn't think it would waste more than 40 seconds, and it's pretty convenient.

Offline Volvagia

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 25
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 10:52:37 AM »
One thing that is quite arguable, is the second pouch worth it?

It's not too terribly out of the way (After beating the first dungeon, enter Your House, leave, Go where second pouch is and get it)

I mean, I wouldn't think it would waste more than 40 seconds, and it's pretty convenient.

With all the item re-equips you'd do in a run, I'd imagine it's worth it to get it. There's some puzzles in some of the Lorule Dungeons that can be sped up by having the ice rod... having it on the second button for example instead of switching in and out could be helpful when you also need the primary dungeon item on the other button... Granted Ravio's quick equip could hep here, it's inconvenient since you have to actually touch the screen to start it.

Offline Jerry23dr

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »
So what's going to be the fastest route for Pendants then?

Offline Hornlitz

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 118
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 08:06:07 PM »
I'm pretty sure doing House of Gales and then Tower of Hera is fastest. You'd get Irene's Bell earlier, so that would save time backtracking down the mountain to get to the Lost Woods.

Offline Jerry23dr

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 08:55:14 PM »
Also, deathwarp is definitely faster to getting the bow rather than running back to Ravio

Offline Jerry23dr

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 10:39:05 PM »
I believe it would be faster to do Thieves town then Skull Woods to get Tempered Sword early. Plus they are next to each other.  Would save time?
edit: Also, when going to get tempered sword, you can buy the rods from Ravio.

Offline CloudMax

  • Site Editor
  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 579
    • CloudModding
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 01:53:53 AM »
I believe it would be faster to do Thieves town then Skull Woods to get Tempered Sword early. Plus they are next to each other.  Would save time?
edit: Also, when going to get tempered sword, you can buy the rods from Ravio.

This is quite arguable.
If you do Skull Woods 2nd, you'd still have to warp back to Kakariko Village for be Big Bomb (since in zfgs route you'd have to warp back there at some point for Skull Woods).
And there really isn't a good time around here to take a trip to hyrule, since you won't be leaving for Hyrule at all between Skull Woods and Swamp Palace. So you'd have to waste time taking a trip back to hyrule solely for the upgrade. The first good time to upgrade would be after Swamp Palace when you're going for Dark Palace. But this would result in you doing 3 dungeons anyway.
So no matter which route you do, there wouldn't be a good time to go and grab the upgrade before doing a 3rd dungeon. Unless it is actually worth it to take a trip back and forth to hyrule between the Big Bomb just for the sword upgrade, which doesn't seem right.

There is also the question of wether it would actually save enough time to have the sword upgrade 1 dungeon earlier. I don't recall Swamp or Dark Palace having any good use of the sword Upgrade. I can't say for sure though, don't really remember how the boss phases were set up, which is where the biggest difference would end up being.

However, a good thing with doing Skull Woods is that this would mean having the sword upgrade for Dark Palace (and possibly Swamp Palace) instead of Skull Woods. Skull Woods has the Boss Skip, so wether or not you have the upgrade won't make much of a difference in Skull Woods, allowing you to do it early without loosing time over the upgrade.

I may have missed something though.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 02:05:22 AM by CloudMax »

Offline ZFG

  • Moderator
  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 659
  • also pheenoh <3
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 12:15:37 PM »
I've been rethinking the route and I think this looks a lot better than anything else I've seen

start up to pendant of courage
sahasrla
deathwarp
go to eastern area and see the cutscene showing the switches
get the 20r near the armos and deathwarp
bow
eastern + the 100r chest through the right crack at the beginning (120r)
travel to zora's domain, see cutscene of guy running out
kak
pegasus boots and 100r in house next to sahasrlas (220r)
power glove
up to hera
ravio, rent hammer, tornado,bombs, hookshot (80r)
back to hera, finish, get 50r chest and 100r chest (230r)
kak, smooth gem (30r)
witches house, flippers
house, to gales
house of gales
master sword
lorule

thieves town, finish with 450r + master ore
portal to house with lady that gives you hp in hyrule, then portal behind big house back to lorule, skull woods (this is faster than any other portal despite the hp)
skull woods + ore
portal to hyrule in kakariko
blacksmith, upgrade sword
gulleys pouch in the woods
portal south of that area back to lorule
big bomb house
bring big bomb to swamp
swamp palace
north to vacant house, hit vane, portal to hyrule
rent ice, fire, sand rod
hera, ice ruins, stamina scroll
vacant house, hyrule
portal in rocky area of hyrule to lorule
dark palace
vacant house, hyrule, lake hylia, lorule, turtle rock
vacant house, swamp, do stuff to get to desert palace
desert palace
lorule castle
yuga
triforce

This gets the upgraded sword after 2 dungeons, the item pouch is in a decently convenient place, big bomb shop is close to there, and desert palace is the last to minimize Irene text.   
Quote
I for one think that there are no glitches in OoT. It's just gameshark codes.

RBA stands for Rare Bird Adventure. We call it that because we need to get the blue cucco in order to use it.

Offline Mofat

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 4
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 01:32:00 PM »
With regular tempered sword it takes 39 hits to kill first phase final boss
Second phase takes 13 hits, 6 for the first two times you hit him out of the wall and then just one to finish him.

I dunno about the further upgraded sword, going to get it and test it now.

fully upgraded word

30-31 hits (Lost count a little) for first phase
4 hits every time he comes out of the wall plus the final hit.

On the final battle it probably saves 20-ish seconds. I can only speculate if it will shave off enough time of bosses/mini bosses to be worth it.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 02:14:22 PM by Mofat »

Offline Jerry23dr

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 01:59:32 PM »

start up to pendant of courage
sahasrla
deathwarp
go to eastern area and see the cutscene showing the switches
get the 20r near the armos and deathwarp
bow
eastern + the 100r chest through the right crack at the beginning (120r)
travel to zora's domain, see cutscene of guy running out
kak
pegasus boots and 100r in house next to sahasrlas (220r)
power glove
up to hera
ravio, rent hammer, tornado,bombs, hookshot (80r)
back to hera, finish, get 50r chest and 100r chest (230r)
kak, smooth gem (30r)
witches house, flippers
house, to gales
house of gales
master sword
lorule
Wait, why Gales second?

Offline Jerry23dr

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 9
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 02:12:09 PM »
Also, does anyone know if the lost woods path is set or random?

Offline FriiedPorkchop

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 10
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2013, 05:11:33 PM »
Also, does anyone know if the lost woods path is set or random?

I believe the first two follow the poe sections are random but the last part is always the same.

Offline ZFG

  • Moderator
  • Mega Guay
  • Posts: 659
  • also pheenoh <3
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2013, 10:59:40 PM »
Wait, why Gales second?
I originally thought gales first would be better but the convenient 150r in hera seems worth it.  I think its just 1 extra warp vs that 100r chest in the escape of eastern palace.
Quote
I for one think that there are no glitches in OoT. It's just gameshark codes.

RBA stands for Rare Bird Adventure. We call it that because we need to get the blue cucco in order to use it.

Offline Cluck

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 8
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 09:34:01 AM »
Also, does anyone know if the lost woods path is set or random?
Lost woods seems to be random except for the last one (three poes). That one is always south.

Which is good, because that's the easiest one to mess up.

Offline Vortex

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 25
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2013, 03:43:19 PM »

I'm not entirely sure if upgrading the sword will be worth it, but a lot of the later enemies and bosses do take a lot of hits, and the ores do not take very long to get at all.  Upgrading the sword itself might be about a minute loss.  Will need to be timed but I think it'll be worth it.


Someone really needs to time this. I'm definitely for upgrading the sword to the second level, but-- the third time. I don't really know, is it worth it to get the butter blade? (3rd upgrade) What do you think?
"Uh, Max? I don't think we're getting out of this cave." - Arin, Game Grumps

Offline Chamros

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 5
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2013, 04:15:20 PM »
Someone really needs to time this. I'm definitely for upgrading the sword to the second level, but-- the third time. I don't really know, is it worth it to get the butter blade? (3rd upgrade) What do you think?

Definitely not, since you'd have to go to the graveyard and do the small dungeon there in Lorule, JUST to get the last Master Ore. I don't see in any way how that can save time just by getting another upgrade on the master sword..

Offline doommaker

  • Special Guay
  • Posts: 223
  • The DoomJump....The most hated name of all time.
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/doommaker10000
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 12:45:14 PM »
Noticed this a few days ago...

--- Eastern Palace ---
-- 1F --
Shoot bulb, proceed
Shoot bulb on the left, proceed
Get to the up-left room
First 3 tentacle things, slash them
Get in the middle, spinattack the remaining
Go down, step on the stone to open door, proceed over bridge


Not trying to be mean or any thing but this part is a waste of time.
There are a few other parts in the route like this,not a big deal though.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 12:50:53 PM by doommaker »

Offline Vortex

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 25
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 12:57:09 PM »
Definitely not, since you'd have to go to the graveyard and do the small dungeon there in Lorule, JUST to get the last Master Ore. I don't see in any way how that can save time just by getting another upgrade on the master sword..

Right on! So, the second upgrade must be the only upgrade to get.
"Uh, Max? I don't think we're getting out of this cave." - Arin, Game Grumps

Offline zT DeFuZeD

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 18
  • Hero of the Triforce
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2013, 03:06:31 PM »
Definitely not, since you'd have to go to the graveyard and do the small dungeon there in Lorule, JUST to get the last Master Ore. I don't see in any way how that can save time just by getting another upgrade on the master sword..
...That and the master ore from the Dark Palace takes the longest out of the three in dungeons to get, so that one can be skipped as well.
"May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

Offline Crankeey

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 13
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2013, 03:50:29 PM »
Are big cutscenes only skippable in hero mode?

Offline Koizata

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 16
    • Twitch
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2013, 04:08:04 PM »
Hey was a little unsure about my route but anyways here it is http://pastebin.com/VvSNPMHF
Any question about route just ask.

Offline Hornlitz

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 118
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2013, 05:08:09 PM »
Are big cutscenes only skippable in hero mode?

No, thankfully. You can skip any cutscene where the bottom screen turns completely black in normal mode too.

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 10:03:13 AM »
After talking to saharasahla, you typically death warp from the slimes outside kakariko. I tried timing this vs attacking the cucco nearby, and it basically comes out to be the same, around 11ish seconds from exiting saharasahla's house to the moment Link dies. But for attacking the cucco to be faster, you'll need good RNG on the cucco attacking patterns; otherwise it'll likely be like a half second slower.

Just random. It'd be awesome if cucco attacks were part of a speedrunning route though ^_^

Also, anwonu tweeted back at me that he thinks just walking back to your house is faster than death warping. Could anyone time this more specifically? ^^;

Anyways, I've been following parax's PB for learning any%, though I should also go through the pastebins in this topic as well; I'll post if I think of anything worth posting about that isn't quite intuitive/known
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 10:06:27 AM by kirbymastah »

Offline akaikee

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 4
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2013, 10:08:23 AM »
After talking to saharasahla, you typically death warp from the slimes outside kakariko. I tried timing this vs attacking the cucco nearby, and it basically comes out to be the same, around 11ish seconds from exiting saharasahla's house to the moment Link dies. But for attacking the cucco to be faster, you'll need good RNG on the cucco attacking patterns; otherwise it'll likely be like a half second slower.

Just random. It'd be awesome if cucco attacks were part of a speedrunning route though ^_^

Also, anwonu tweeted back at me that he thinks just walking back to your house is faster than death warping. Could anyone time this more specifically? ^^;

Anyways, I've been following parax's PB for learning any%, though I should also go through the pastebins in this topic as well; I'll post if I think of anything worth posting about that isn't quite intuitive/known

Couldnt you just mash the fuck out of the cucco? :D
And yes i could time deathwarping vs. walking tomorrow if you want. I had to lend my brother the game - huge alttp fan but no money atm :D

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2013, 10:18:22 AM »
Yeah exactly, it takes 11 seconds to slash the cucco 10 times and get killed by 3 hits from the attacking ones. It basically comes down to the same time as death warping via the slimes.

Also when timing not deathwarping, i think anwonu mentioned that you also have to take into account the first cutscene at ravio's, or something like that?

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2013, 12:03:17 PM »
I created a new game file, played up that that point and timed all 3 methods this way:

Start timer when you gain control of Link after exiting Sahasrahla's house.
End timer when hitting the transition to the next screen east of Link's house.

And the results were:

Chuchu deathwarp: 30.84
Cucco deathwarp: 31.21
Walking back: 34.45

Now the reason why walking back takes so long is that you get an Irene flying cutscene when entering the blacksmith's house screen. The thing is, if you use the route that goes through the bridge east of Link's house after beating the Eastern Palace and talking to Sahasrahla in front of the castle, you do NOT get that one cutscene. You do get the cutscene where she lands and talks to you, but not the one where she just flies over. So, by deathwarping back from Kakariko, you're skipping a cutscene that lasts about 4-5 seconds. (And you're still not getting the Bell until after the Eastern Palace even if you walk and get that first cutscene.)

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2013, 12:46:01 PM »
I created a new game file, played up that that point and timed all 3 methods this way:

Start timer when you gain control of Link after exiting Sahasrahla's house.
End timer when hitting the transition to the next screen east of Link's house.

And the results were:

Chuchu deathwarp: 30.84
Cucco deathwarp: 31.21
Walking back: 34.45

Now the reason why walking back takes so long is that you get an Irene flying cutscene when entering the blacksmith's house screen. The thing is, if you use the route that goes through the bridge east of Link's house after beating the Eastern Palace and talking to Sahasrahla in front of the castle, you do NOT get that one cutscene. You do get the cutscene where she lands and talks to you, but not the one where she just flies over. So, by deathwarping back from Kakariko, you're skipping a cutscene that lasts about 4-5 seconds. (And you're still not getting the Bell until after the Eastern Palace even if you walk and get that first cutscene.)

Did you try out the cucco method multiple times? Because there is some RNG with it involved, depending on where the cucco's attack from. I've lost about a second before from bad RNG

EDIT: Also, minor frames-saver, but upon entering Eastern Palace, when you shoot the first switch, if you're forward enough to the edge before the bridge falls down, then the falling bridge will shove link all the way left during the cutscene, saving frames I guess, since you'll be closer to the door.

EDIT2: About the strat I just posted in EDIT, just messed with it more. If you're too far off the edge, you'll clip and fall into the pit... <.<
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 12:51:59 PM by kirbymastah »

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2013, 01:23:54 PM »
My attempt at the Cucco Deathwarp seemed like a pretty good one. But I did a bunch more just now and got:

32.18
30.56
34.53
32.20
32.28
30.46


Then I redid a single run of the Chuchu Deathwarp and got 30.47. This means that the Cucco strat is at best on par with the Chuchu one, and it's more risky for a barely existant time save.

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2013, 07:18:04 AM »
Random minor time saver: in first room of house of gales, dashing into the switch is faster than walking to it and slashing twice (dont think I've seen anyone do that)



A minor route change I've been testing was getting the silver ruppee in kakariko after the smooth gem (instead of the purple ruppee before leaving eastern palace), and then buying hookshot early before tower of hera.

Note: Small key #1 ignores small key cutscene

SMALL KEY #1 (small key on the thin bar, in 2F)

Starting from bottom-left switch, use hookshot to get the small key, then dash out of the room (dashing from top of stairs is faster than walking out):
3.475
3.525
3.532
3.514
3.456

Starting from bottom-left switch, use tornado rod from below to get small key, then walk out of the room:
5.666
5.734
5.508
5.871
5.720

So hookshot saves roughly 2 seconds. Furthermore, I think most people would take an extra second to line themselves up properly to get the small key with the tornado rod, so in a realistic case, 3 seconds.

The hookshot also helps with hitting the switch in 2F, for the giant fan. I don't really think it's faster than the spin attack trick (though it definitely isn't slower), but it eliminates the time it takes to charge your sword and is also easier too.

Finally, the hookshot can stun the double fire beast miniboss, after you take off their flames. Is it faster? Probably not faster than zander's strat, but it definitely makes it a lot easier too.

Now, where do you lose time getting hookshot early? Getting the silver ruppee in kakariko is roughly 3 seconds slower than the purple ruppee in eastern palace. There's also the time it takes to item switch too; you have to switch to hookshot upon reaching 2F, and then switch out before the boss again, which is roughly another 3 seconds gone.

So in house of gales alone, early hookshot loses 3 seconds, but makes life a lot easier too. I'm not sure how the lorule items route goes, but if having the early hookshot helps anywhere there too (or hyrule castle too!) before the next visit to ravio's, then it'll likely end up being worth getting it early.

Now, if you get the purple ruppee, and play up until death mountain weather vane, and you just so happen to have 50 extra ruppees from lucky drops, then yes, early hookshot is definitely better. But I don't think that's very likely...

Anyways, I'm going to keep going through zander's any% route, and see if hookshot has any more uses before he buys it in his route. I'll edit this post appropriately.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 07:26:14 AM by kirbymastah »

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2013, 09:23:36 AM »
The hookshot also helps with hitting the switch in 2F, for the giant fan. I don't really think it's faster than the spin attack trick (though it definitely isn't slower), but it eliminates the time it takes to charge your sword and is also easier too.
The fastest method for that switch is to throw a bomb on the upper left part of the Keese, making it explode instantly and hitting the switch at the same time. If you're really fast, you could also not hit the Keese, and use the detonation time to line up your dash-slide and get across to the south part, near the fan.

So in house of gales alone, early hookshot loses 3 seconds, but makes life a lot easier too. I'm not sure how the lorule items route goes, but if having the early hookshot helps anywhere there too (or hyrule castle too!) before the next visit to ravio's, then it'll likely end up being worth getting it early.
I personally get the Hookshot after Eastern Palace, and this is how my early Lorule route goes:

Enter Lorule, Activate Blacksmith Vane
Beat Thieves
Crack to Hyrule, HP lady's house
Crack to Lorule, behind Sahasrahla's house
Beat Skull Woods
Warp to Blacksmith, walk to Vacant House, activate Vane
Crack to Hyrule, rent Fire, Ice and Sand Rods
Walk to Blacksmith, upgrade Master Sword
Warp to Death Moutain, make way to Ice Ruins.

Having the Hookshot early allows me to not have to go to Ravio's before Skull Woods and still do the Big Key room fairly quickly. It doesn't save a trip back and forth to Hyrule, and you have to go through the HP cutscene thingy in the house, so I'm not entirely sure if it's faster, but I prefer it because I like finishing off the overworld stuff all at once. I also do House Of Gales before Tower Of Hera, so all I have to do after HoG is warp to death mountain and climb it, since I already got the Flippers and Power Gloves together before. I enjoy the fast pace of the game, doing dungeon after dungeon without slowing down between them. :P

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2013, 09:32:38 AM »
Yeah, I really don't think it matters whether you do tower of hera or house of gales first, because convenient warp points.

After smooth gem, pegasus boots, power gloves and death mountain weather vane:
1. Fly to Ravio's, get tornado rod, bombs, and hammer (and hookshot if you prefer)
2. Go get the pouch from the woods for the second slot

From here, you can these in any order, as long as 4 is before 5.
3. Fly to death mountain, climb it, do tower of hera
4. Fly to the potion shop, get flippers
5. Fly to ravio's, then do house of gales

There isn't anything you gain in any order you do of steps 3-5. So it really doesn't matter which dungeon you do first IMO. I personally like having a bit of overworld downtime between dungeons and having it spread out, so I prefer getting the flippers in between the two dungeons, but you can get the flippers before both dungeons, or do tower of hera after house of gales anyways.


Now, as for hookshot early for lorule, I notice that zander's current WR run doesn't get hookshot early. After thieve's hideout, he goes to the weather vane by the vacant house in lorule, uses the portal there, gets stuff from ravio, flies to kakariko, uses the portal in the back of kakariko, then does skull woods. I don't think he ever activates the weather vane by the lorule blacksmith.

As for your route, rheaultwnage, the problem is you go through a cutscene with the woman giving you a heart piece. Furthermore, you're not going to have the weather vane unlocked by the vacant house so you can't fly there conveniently after skull woods.

This'll have to be manually timed :/


PROS/CONS

Zander's Route:
+Fly straight to vacant house weather vane after skull woods
+Skip blacksmith weathervane
-Trip to ravio's after thieve's hideout

rheaultwnage's Route:
+Go straight to skull woods after thieve's hideout
-Heart Piece Woman cutscene
-After skull woods, walk from blacksmith to vacant house
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 09:42:00 AM by kirbymastah »

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2013, 10:00:35 AM »
This is how we could time:

My route: Time to activate a vane (with "take a break" text) + walk from HP/Portrait house, take crack, take other crack + warp from Woods to BSmith, walk to Vacant's House vane, take crack, walk to House's door and walk back to blacksmith

Zander's: Walk from Kakariko to Vacant's House vane, take crack and walk to House's door + Warp to Kakariko and take crack behind Sahasrahla's house + warp from Woods to Vacant House, take crack and walk to blacksmith.

Maybe we could take out the "walk back to blacksmith" and "walk to House's door" part since they're in both and are pretty much the same. Activating the House vane or not wouldn't matter, as long as it's the same in both timing. It would be nice to know the time it takes to activate a weather vane (Short, or long with extra take a break text).

If someone wants to time this today, go ahead. I'll do it sometime tomorrow or Sunday if not. :)

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2013, 10:51:53 AM »
I just realized, it's probably better (not faster) to do tower of hera before tower of gales.

Against the boss in tower of gales, you jump into the pit intentionally at certain points so you can refill stamina, to abuse bombs/arrows more. By doing tower of hera, you have an extra heart container to use, making this easier.

Although you could say the same about the boss for tower of hera too; depends on which boss you have more trouble with, ultimately.

Offline RheaultWnage

  • Site Editor
  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 107
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2013, 10:41:15 AM »
I timed it and Zander's route is about 10 seconds faster.

Offline kirbymastah

  • Regular Guay
  • Posts: 33
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2013, 06:23:10 PM »
I actually had a practice partial attempt where I got an extra 50 ruppees from lucky drops before buying bombs+tornado+hammer. If zander's route was faster by at most 3 seconds, then it'd be worth getting hookshot early and taking rheault's route; unfortunately it's not quite the case :/

Now, looking at the early hookshot route pre-Lorule, early hookshot from lucky 50 ruppees (aka no silver ruppee in kakariko) will roughly break even with non-early hookshot, and it certainly makes things a lot easier too. Up to the runner if the runner wants to add a conditional I guess, and it's rather rare to have an extra 50 ruppees too =/


Also, very minor strat but...

You know the small key you get in Ice Ruins, where you have to light four torches (with 6 green penguins) to have it fall on a higher ledge? I timed how long it takes to go from collecting the key, to the intersection of the thin bridges in the southern room.

Strat 1: After the small key, merge into the right wall, and dash down the thin bridge (Basically go back the way you came from below)
Strat 2: After the small key, immediately fall off and walk manually south until the intersection.

Strat 1 takes about 7 seconds. Strat 2 takes about 5.5 seconds, assuming there are no penguins. So strat 2 is ideally faster, but taking into account penguins, you'll probably get hit once and lose about a half second to one second. If you killed all the penguins beforehand to be safe, then yes, strat 2 is definitely faster.


LORULE ROUTING  - DUNGEON ORDER

So as of now, the starting dungeons are definitely:

1. Thieve's Hideout
2. Skull Woods
3. Ice Ruins

1+2 give you two easy master ores to temper your sword as early as possible. Thieves' hideout also gives at least 200 ruppees (more from the red statue miniboss fight), essential for purchasing the rest of ravio's stuff before skull woods.

After Ice Ruins, I checked the order of the rest of the 4 dungeons. The obvious thing is that Desert Palace must be before Swamp Palace, since the titan's mitts allow you to take the fastest route with the bomb flower. So ultimately, at a first glance, it shouldn't matter.

However, so far, I think it's fastest (by like one second) to do desert palace then dark palace right after. The reason is, at the end of desert palace, assuming you did the boss key skip, you're going to have the tornado and sand rods equipped. Both of those are needed for the stealth skip right before dark palace, skipping an item equip screen.

It's very minor, but one second can make a difference :P I'm not sure if when you do turtle rock / swamp palace matters (Besides desert sometime before swamp), that might just come down to preference.

So unless I'm missing something, the routes with "equal timing" for the latter half of Lorule are:

-Desert, Dark, Turtle, Swamp
-Desert, Dark, Swamp, Turtle
-Turtle, Desert, Dark, Swamp

I'm also thinking about making a pastebin of the current up-to-date route so people can reference it easily and understand why it's routed like that (along with easier options too); think I should start one up?


EDIT:

Another minor strat I want to share, in desert ruins, that won't be quite intuitive. In the room where you're supposed to spin attack the four switches, there are two beamos at the bottom. The game intends for you to raise the sand to block their laser.

An easy way to not have to raise the sand, while still going at dash speed, is after hitting all four switches, drop down, line yourself below the bottom-right switch, then just dash down. You'll bonk the wall, but upon bonking the southern wall, you'll literally jump over both beamos lasers, then you can just continue through the door.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 07:06:30 PM by kirbymastah »

Offline FriiedPorkchop

  • Deku Scrub
  • Posts: 10
Re: [SPOILERS] - Any% route
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2013, 10:37:42 PM »
unless I'm missing something

After freeing Irene from her painting in Desert Palace you get more textboxes everytime you warp with her. Before Desert Palace, the broom only has one textbox while after desert palace you can get 1-3 textboxes. I dont know how much time this actually wastes but its probably not optimal to do Desert Palace as soon as possible.