Organizing things (OoT Site)
mzxrules:
So I've talked a little about this with Nate and I want to share more about how feel the Ocarina of Time site should be organized.
One of the problems that is going on right now with the Ocarina of Time site is that there are so many tricks and so many pages that we need to work out a system of keeping things organized so that tricks are easier to find, and setups are not duplicated across multiple pages.
The way I see it, I feel like we should try to organize tricks by the location (the scene) they are performed in.
Take a trick like entering the Forest Temple without the hookshot for example. There are two ways to do that: you can either enter from sacred forest meadow, or you can utilize wrong warp. The setup for entering from Sacred Forest Meadow should be stored on the http://zeldaspeedruns.com/oot/region/sacred-forest-meadow page since the trick starts in a single scene, while the wrong warp setup would be stored on a wrong warp page since such a wrong warp can start in a few different scenes.
Then in the Forest Temple page, you could link back to these two pages since they are relevant to the forest temple page.
However, I also feel that pages like Forest Escape would suffer since every trick listed within that page would end up being moved out, meaning most of the content of the page ends up being links.
Thoughts?
nathanisbored:
Maybe setups that are specific to an area and NOT already on another page with more value. Like you said, Wrong Warp page is more valuable for storing info on Wrong Warp to Forest, but it can still be referenced on the Forest Temple Page. I also think the Forest Escape page is more valuable for listing info on the forest escapes, but each setup can still be referenced on the page for the scene it takes place in.
Basically, choose whichever page the setup has more value in, and then put the setup on that page (but still reference it (and link to it) on other relevant pages). There might be cases where it isn't clear which page is better though, I'm not really sure. Where should Fishing Pond Early go for example? Does it deserve its own page? It probably has more value on the BA section than it does on the Lake Hylia page at least.
nathanisbored:
I want to change a lot of things with the BA section:
1. Update and move Swordless Link page to BA section. This page will have info on the different methods of achieving blank B, the utility of blank B, and any side effects. I'm working on this page atm. Maybe Unrestricted Items could have it's own (technique?) page, since it's technically not exclusive to swordless link thanks to wrong warp/underwater Down A.
2. Change "Windy B" page to "Ingo's Minigame" page. Include info on getting stick on B from entering, info on getting swordless from exiting, info on dying/returning to FW inside the corral, info on windy B (including new info like temp B stuff from the ganon fight). Possibly link to Epona Early page, explaining that the minigame is not necessary to get Epona. Maybe info on the race, idk.
3. Make Stick on B page. The main reason for this is that it is one of the few items that you can get on B without doing BA, and there's a page for every other one (except kokiri sword as adult). Info about N64/iQue crash here, what you might use stick on B for (other than RBA of course), other relevant info.
4. Change "Minigame items on B" to "Keeping Items on B". Include info on Temp B, what happens to non-sword items upon death/savewarp/etc. Explain how the Sword Flag affects things. Explain under what conditions Temp B will be restored to the B button. Effectively this would be a Temp B page (it practically already is), but it wouldn't be called that because people who want this sort of info wouldn't think to look under a page called "temp b" if they know nothing about it. This would have been a useful page when Moltov was routing All Dungeons with RBA.
5. Change "Quickswap Sword Deletion" to "Sword Oddities". Include info on the Sword Flag, what happens to highlighted sword items when you savewarp with a non-sword item on B (sword deletion/creation), Maybe reference things like dying in post Ganondorf rooms which always puts MS on B. Explain that MS is not put back in the inventory after a savewarp on 1.0. Explain what happens to MS when you enter the Ganon fight initial cutscene. Other relevant info.
6. Remove Odd Potion BA page. Move versatility info to the Bottle Adventure page instead. Also link to a new (technique?) page called "Trade Item Duplication" which would explain how to get Odd Potion on C as child.
7. Child BA page? This may not be necessary, as this info could probably just be added to the BA page.
8. Make "Special Items on B" page. List and include info on any item that has notable effects/differences when on the B button. Info on trying to BA minigame items would go here. Info on the versatility of FW on B would go here. Info on Sold Out on B would go here. Info on Unlimited Big Poes would go here. List or reference also Blank B (link to swordless link page), Stick on B (link to page), bottle on B (link to page). Explain that trade items are not removed from B when you trade them. Include the item value for each item listed on this page.
9. Move Fishing Pond Early page to a different section (Lake Hylia area strategies?). Instead link to this page on the Steal the Fishing Rod page and possibly the Bottle on B page (people reading this page would want to know this if they plan to use the fishing pond method).
10. Remove "Lift the Archery Guy" page. This information belongs in the Upgrade Oddities page.
Feedback? I feel like most pages in this section are currently not visited because of how it's organized, including the "Minigame Items on B" page, which probably any speedrunner should visit since it's an important thing to know for RBA/BA related stuff. Cloudmax said awhile back the page was very enlightening to him, but he never knew it existed because the title of the page was misleading. I just think this section could use an overhaul.
mzxrules:
Quote from: nathanisbored on January 10, 2014, 06:43:40 AM
1. Update and move Swordless Link page to BA section.
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3. Make Stick on B page. The main reason for this is that it is one of the few items that you can get on B without doing BA, and there's a page for every other one (except kokiri sword as adult). Info about N64/iQue crash here, what you might use stick on B for (other than RBA of course), other relevant info.
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8. Make "Special Items on B" page. List and include info on any item that has notable effects/differences when on the B button. Info on trying to BA minigame items would go here. Info on the versatility of FW on B would go here. Info on Sold Out on B would go here. Info on Unlimited Big Poes would go here. List or reference also Blank B (link to swordless link page), Stick on B (link to page), bottle on B (link to page). Explain that trade items are not removed from B when you trade them. Include the item value for each item listed on this page.
So there will be Blank, Stick, Bottle on B pages, then the rest will be covered in Special Items on B? I think that could work.
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Unrestricted Items could have it's own (technique?) page
Yes. Should definitely be put under techniques.
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2. Change "Windy B" page to "Ingo's Minigame" page. Include info on getting stick on B from entering, info on getting swordless from exiting, info on dying/returning to FW inside the corral, info on windy B (including new info like temp B stuff from the ganon fight). Possibly link to Epona Early page, explaining that the minigame is not necessary to get Epona. Maybe info on the race, idk.
I don't like the Windy B terminology because starting the mini-game is what causes the hud's state change. Not sure if it should just be a Lon Lon Ranch page.
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4. Change "Minigame items on B" to "Keeping Items on B". Include info on Temp B, what happens to non-sword items upon death/savewarp/etc. Explain how the Sword Flag affects things. Explain under what conditions Temp B will be restored to the B button. Effectively this would be a Temp B page (it practically already is), but it wouldn't be called that because people who want this sort of info wouldn't think to look under a page called "temp b" if they know nothing about it. This would have been a useful page when Moltov was routing All Dungeons with RBA.
I like the name change/broader focus. Sounds good.
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5. Change "Quickswap Sword Deletion" to "Sword Oddities". Include info on the Sword Flag, what happens to highlighted sword items when you savewarp with a non-sword item on B (sword deletion/creation), Maybe reference things like dying in post Ganondorf rooms which always puts MS on B. Explain that MS is not put back in the inventory after a savewarp on 1.0. Explain what happens to MS when you enter the Ganon fight initial cutscene. Other relevant info.
Sounds good.
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6. Remove Odd Potion BA page. Move versatility info to the Bottle Adventure page instead.
Sound's good.
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Also link to a new (technique?) page called "Trade Item Duplication" which would explain how to get Odd Potion on C as child.
Don't forget to add Broken Goron's Sword, check the R&D thread.
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7. Child BA page? This may not be necessary, as this info could probably just be added to the BA page.
There isn't a whole lot that is radically different about child BA, at least nothing known so far. The only difference really is what scene setups / npcs are accessible.
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9. Move Fishing Pond Early page to a different section (Lake Hylia area strategies?). Instead link to this page on the Steal the Fishing Rod page and possibly the Bottle on B page (people reading this page would want to know this if they plan to use the fishing pond method).
Yea, that fits into that sort of thing.
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10. Remove "Lift the Archery Guy" page. This information belongs in the Upgrade Oddities page.
Agreed
nathanisbored:
Quote from: mzxrules on January 10, 2014, 09:57:55 AM
I don't like the Windy B terminology because starting the mini-game is what causes the hud's state change. Not sure if it should just be a Lon Lon Ranch page.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I'm not really worried about the title of the page atm, so it can probably be changed if need be.
Anyway, I updated the Swordless Link page, although it's kinda badly written because I'm tired. Maybe I'll work on more of these pages tomorrow or something.
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