Author Topic: ST Research and discovery thread  (Read 67282 times)

Offline pok3monrocks

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Re: ST Research and discovery thread
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2013, 07:25:26 PM »
It only took a couple of  years after the game was released, but I think I found a Fraaz strat that saves about 20 seconds. You can use the boomerang after each spin attack skipping him from going into the second elemental phase. (Only saves time on phase 2 + 3?)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMPdtzn6ERM

Also you can cause one of the smaller versions of him to spit and the cutscene of him breaking the torches will cause the spit to freeze in air. This will allow you to instantly inflate or deflate once phase 2 starts.

Offline benstephens1000

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Re: ST Research and discovery thread
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2013, 12:20:13 PM »
"tsmart yashichidsf wild dumb bitch" -Isaacordorica 2012

Offline Pedalpowertoast

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Re: ST Research and discovery thread
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2013, 02:25:17 PM »
Ive seen that before... not on my game though :p
http://www.youtube.com/user/Pedalpowerluigi

Using a slow version on purpose is your choice, but you will get no sympathy or agreement from me.
Lol

Offline JaggerG

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Re: ST Research and discovery thread
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2013, 02:33:13 PM »
Okay, so I did a bit of timing for portals, and discovered it might be easier to time routes in general using simple mathematics!

All times assume top speed and no lag.
- Upon creating a route, your cursor snaps to a grid. Every location, area transition, and cross-section/turn also snap to this grid, though they may not look like they do because of their shape.
- Each "click" is 12 pixels on the map. Turns make this a little strange, since they curve around to skip a click.
- Each straight click takes very close to 8.5 seconds (lag not considered).
- Going from Ocean Temple entrance to ToS is 22 clicks, including 11 turns, in about 174 seconds (I think I beat the pirate ships fast enough to prevent serious lag).
- 11*8.5=93.5, thus the remaining time is roughly 80.5 seconds.
- 80.5/11=7.5.
- This is absurdly precise, but holy crap this can make timing routes a TON easier, except for the entire lack of alternate routes deal. But still, last point:
- Every extra turn you take (as opposed to making less turns) saves a second. Because of the nature of grids, it also forces you to turn again to get back on track, thus saving another second. So really, every improved routing decision saves 2 seconds. QED.

(Additional note: ToS entrance trigger/starting point lets you click one space past it. Keep that in mind if you time to/from there.)
More ideas on routing to come later, but yeah, poor game has almost no train routing. :^(

EDIT: Tried going reverse along the south end of the Ocean tracks. Each click took 11.5 seconds, thus just less than a second per pixel. Then again, maybe it's not 12 pixels per click. Maybe it's 11.5 pixels?

EDIT EDIT: Double checked the middle of the forest realm crossing each turn. Definitely 12 pixels per click. Although I also noticed fade-out transitions through the forest actually give you a boost (2 rapid pixels once it's completely blanked out). Possibly half a second bonus time saved. Neat.

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Completely trivial info, but just for funsies, I calculated a couple trips early on.
-First trip from Aboda to the castle is about 2:33.5, plus the dialogue and stalling for train positioning (non-stop route adds 17 seconds).
-Ice Sanctuary to Ferrus is 2:10
-Fastest no s+q route from Ferrus to Ice Temple is roughly 4:15, by reversing to a stop at the springs (entering and leaving costs 20 seconds, ignoring the cutscene because getting it here skips it later). Reversing just past the turn so you can go straight is more like 4:17ish if you don't mess it up, and looping around so as to not reverse at all takes about 4:19.
-Save/Quitting after Ferrus and thus driving from Sanctuary to Temple is 2:58, plus the time it takes to save/quit.
-Sorry pok3monrocks, I just had to. Accidentally taking the upper path to Goron Village before Mega Ice cost 1:18.

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Dec. 02 EDIT
It looks like picking up the Anouki immediately before going to Goron Village for the freight cart is 17 seconds faster. On top of that, remember that Passenger Aggravation strategy MrSparkle suggested? Looks like Anouki Village is 34 seconds closer to the Springs than Goron Village. If you can get the Anouki upset enough so you can just slam on your brakes once after getting the freight cart, it's possible it might be a couple seconds faster than going straight to the springs Nope, just timed it, it takes about 45 seconds at best to get back on the train after kicking him off and teleporting.

Regarding big keys: although using gusts to push the key around isn't faster in general, there are several temples it might be better for. Turns out you can use the key to attack the hands. One gust can double-hit them for a kill, making it reliable in Forest Temple, Ocean Temple, and one of the floors in ToS (the one you sketch a Z into the door on).

For the spiked vines in Ocean Temple, instead of pulling out one thorn and rolling through, you can also pull them both out and go through a door. They disappear once you come back, useful for the first fishhead room. Not sure if it's faster, but if you just snap them off, you don't take damage at least.

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HEY! RABBIT LADY! YES! It's a REALLY long detour because traveling any place is really long, so the time it takes to pick her up after ToS4 pretty much nullifies the time it saves teleporting from the Fire Temple to the castle. It's also longer than the time it saves teleporting from the Sand Temple to the castle. But if you KEEP going back to her and picking her up again, the detour is cut at least 30 seconds shorter each time.

Even stupider idea: I'm trying REALLY HARD to make Gate A (from Anouki village to near the castle) and B (from behind the trading post to near the springs). They're currently each a minute longer by themselves, but maybe if I pick her up THEN, I can save time teleporting from the Ocean Temple, too? Problem there is I have to leave her there before picking up the Anouki (likely picking him up before Tos4 if I do teleport).


Dec 4 EDIT
Nope, I miscounted the amount of times you go back to the castle. First of all, backtracking from the Ocean Sanctuary AT ALL takes for-freaking-ever. I even considered dragging along the chief of a village as I activated B (you only need to shoot the gem to activate them, not actually travel through them), and it came out at least 6 minutes LONGER, considering the trip from the Ocean Temple to ToS, ToS to Anouki Village, and ToS to the dark realm.

As for the Bunny lady, the detour to get her as you pick up Mega Ice is about a 3:05 detour, then about 1:30 to teleport from Fire Temple to the castle and back to ToS saving 2:55 (currently +1:40). Then you teleport from Sand Sanctuary to the castle; that is, assuming you didn't scare her off during the trials. Freaking cannons. That costs a bit over 50 seconds (+2:30) to save a massive...1 minute, 30 seconds. Yup. Alternatively, you could also spend another 30 seconds to get her back on your train so you can later teleport to save 13 seconds, unless you're unlucky and have to detour because of demon trains. Note: the teacher is much closer than the bunny lady, but scaring him off doesn't give you the option to teleport.

Long story short, mission failed spectacularly. :^(

But I don't come completely empty handed. You can save maybe 20 seconds on the final trial to get into the sand temple by taking out the entire east side first. You have to manually angle the shots for the southmost one, though. Main problem is, you probably need to stop the train to make sure you hit them, and you get totally pummeled around that corner.

Also dumb glitch: I sent Phantom Zelda after a red stalfos, and it backed up into a corner and kept dodging, then apparently became invincible for several minutes. I tried moving Zelda, but she kept attacking. At one point, he started taking a couple steps to the side, and still couldn't be hit. Eventually my slashes finally decided to make contact. No video, sorry.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 10:03:45 AM by JaggerG »

Offline JaggerG

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Re: ST Research and discovery thread
« Reply #84 on: December 05, 2013, 07:52:31 AM »
Got some videos for you guys, but the quality is terrible. You can get the gist of them, though.

Sand Temple Entry strategy. Pretty risky, but definitely faster than going around the entire pyramid. Alternatively, if you feel like playing it safe, you can turn there to shield yourself from the bombs on the north side.
Sudden hard lock. All I did is try to enter the Ocean Sanctuary. I previously had Linebeck decide not to shout in glee at all, and I spammed the horn for the dolphins as usual. Obviously probably useless in a speedrun. >_>

Offline pok3monrocks

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Re: ST Research and discovery thread
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2013, 04:03:13 PM »
It actually might be faster to skip getting the Bomb Bag before Ocean Temple. I probably go time it. My theory is it's slow to get it during the Escort  Quest because of the Chaos Train Patterns and you will have a high chance of getting Beedle after Ocean Temple. However it might not be fast as the Boss Fight in Ocean Temple turns into a 3-4 Cycle. In theory it might only save ~40 seconds. Again I'll time it soon when I get time away from school.