Author Topic: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword  (Read 13617 times)

Offline Yashichidsf

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Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« on: January 30, 2013, 09:28:28 AM »
Recently I made a video showing what happened if you got both the Triforce and the Master Sword before beating Tower of the Gods. You can watch it here if you want. I heard it sparked a tiny bit of interest so I decided to document some of how it's done and such.

First, I pondered: is it possible to get the Triforce before the Master Sword? I tested a few things, and, sure enough, it was. Unfortunately, getting Triforce before Master Sword resulted in a dead end at the Master Sword, much like Early Master Sword on its own. The Dark Nut fight started and I killed them, but couldn't pick up the Master Sword or leave Hyrule at all.

So I then thought: what if I combine EMS with Early Triforce? Maybe that could resolve the dead ends. As evidenced by the video, it did, but only up to a point. I was able to progress through the entire game having not killed Gohdan up until I entered Hyrule for what would usually be the final time. It wasn't Hyrule 3, though; it was still black and white and the statue of Link wasn't destroyed. What wasn't shown in the video is that defeating Gohdan and ringing the bell gives you nothing. The bell rings and the warp to Hyrule doesn't appear (it's already there, after all). I believe there is more the discover about combining EMS with Early Triforce, but haven't gotten around to experimenting with storage shenanigans.

Some people were more interested in how I got the Triforce early as opposed to the effects of it, so yeah. Considering you don't have the Hookshot yet and I wasn't willing to zombie hover to do some things, there was a lot of door storage involved.
To get into Overlook (NE of DRI), I got chest storage and sidehopped up one of the pillars, the leafed my way across to the platform with the hole in it. I had to leaf pump iirc.
To get into the Cabana (S of ToG), I just got door storage from Windfall and sailed there. Jumped through the door, then used the low% route for the sewers wherein you don't use the Skull Hammer.
To get into Stonewatcher (SE of Greatfish) I had to get door storage from Windfall, sail to it, do some bomb boosts to get up, and then I jump slashed through the big stone head. Doing anything but jump slashing got me crushed every time.
To get into Savage Labyrinth I just got door storage on Outset and leafed through the island until I landed by the stone head there. For whatever reason I had to land really close to it or I fell through the island.
To get into Diamond Steppe I got chest storage and sailed to the part of the island that's higher up. I jumped out of the boat and used the leaf to land on part of its structure. Walking around a tiny bit made me clip through, so I swam beneath the water and, naturally, it put me up there by the hole.
Unless I'm forgetting something I did everything else normally and just collected the Triforce after that.

Then I of course got EMS using the low%'s route for FF2. Look that up if you don't know it.

If you've got any questions, feel free to ask! :)
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Offline Gords

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 12:58:19 PM »
is the only known way of activating the Hyrule 1 cutscene where you draw the master sword by defeating gohdan with out going to hyrule 2 or 3 first?

Im interested in playing around with this but i have to learn some of that low%/door storage stuff first.

On a side note i just saw your other vid of getting past the first iron boots switch in Wind temple. might be better to do it your way than the way i did it in my vid, less risky.

Offline Razor7581

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 02:20:05 PM »
Out of curiosity, what happens if you complete the ToG, get the MS normally, do early triforce, and then go to FF2 and go to "Hyrule 2"? Would this overcome the dead ends?
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Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 05:12:29 AM »
As long as the warp doesn't disappear yeah, it probably would. But at that point it's not a very early Triforce and wouldn't be very interesting. Could be pretty cool if you could destroy the barrier if you do it like that though! Unfortunately if that was the case there would still be the Hookshot roadblock in getting up to Ganondorf :(
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Offline Abahbob

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 11:55:29 AM »
From what I've found, the warps don't determine where you go. It depends on the items you have.
Hyrule 1: not sure yet, probably just no master sword.
Hyrule 2: master sword
Hyrule 3: triforce (full master sword may also work)

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 12:31:31 PM »
It could also be that certain cutscenes have triggers in them, since beating Gohdan and ringing the bell leads you directly into Hyrule. I guess that would be pretty hard to test, though. :c

The main thing I've been thinking about is storing some of the cutscenes inside the Master Sword room (namely the Dark Nut one), maybe this would allow you to pick up the Master Sword?? Unfortunately I don't think there is anywhere to Wind Waker dive in there without hitting the trigger and I really don't want to use Forest Water lol
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Offline Abahbob

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 02:42:25 PM »
I was screwing around with the Map Select a couple days ago and found out kinda how Hyrule works. All the "Setups" I guess are:

Warp Arrive - This is the setup where KoRL is
Outside (Afternoon 0) - Hyrule 1
Outside (Afternoon 1) - Hyrule 2
Outside (Afternoon 2) - Hyrule 3

Inside (Afternoon 0) - Hyrule 1 inside
Inside (Afternoon 1) - Hyrule 2 and 3 inside

Sword Room (Afternoon 0) - Hyrule 1 before master sword
Sword Room (Evening 0) - Hyrule 1 after master sword
**I believe this is what causes that one crash. Afternoon has the cutscene when you get close, evening doesn't. Evening still shows the master sword if you haven't gotten it though, you just can't pick it up.

Sword Room (Afternoon 1) - Hyrule 2 room with King of Hyrule standing there giving the "Can't call Tingle" text. Same effect if you store the cutscene before. Probably because whenever you go inside it sets the flag for Evening.
Sword Room (Evening 1) - Hyrule 2 with no on inside the room.

Sword Room (Afternoon 2) - Hyrule 3 before the Darknut Fight
Sword Room (Evening 2) - Hyrule 3 before the Darknut Fight

Sword Room (Afternoon 3) - Hyrule 3 after the Darknut Fight
Sword Room (Evening 3) - Hyrule 3 after the Darknut fight

These are the internal names for the setups through the Map Select, I gave the notes myself. I'm not sure if this "Afternoon" and "Evening" thing actually reflects the time of day. I think it just means "Before" and "After" the main event has happened. Although the day/night thing holds up with the Master Sword in Hyrule 2 thing. An interesting thing is whenever I loaded into Hyrule 3, since you don't have any items, whenever I left the main room and went back in I had all the enemies for Hyrule 1.

It's also worth mentioning that I don't think the Helmaroc fight directly sends you to Hyrule 2. It probably has to do with the Ganon cutscene giving you the master sword, so that sends you to Hyrule 2 because you have it. If you have the triforce, you go to Hyrule 3. That's the workaround for skipping KoRL to get past the softlock in Hyrule 2.

PS: The Moblin blinking thing isn't really them blinking. It's just the closest Moblin starts with his eyes closed, and opens them whenever you walk in.

Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 08:19:45 AM »
There is actually a WW dive spot in the MS chamber. I don't know excatly where but I'm 110% sure I got storage right there by doing a WW dive.
Yeah, I know about a spot in the chamber, but the only spot I know of can't be gotten to before the Hyrule 2 MS cutscene.
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Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 03:59:24 AM »
You can get storage inside of the chamber anyway. The platform all of the statues are situated on can be used to do this. Also, the Zelda transformation cutscene is activated from outside of the chamber. I haven't tried to store that away, though.
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Offline Yashichidsf

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 04:25:07 AM »
I've thought of some new things to mess with in regards to this. I might do some testing later. Just so I don't forget: ring Tower of the Gods bell from outside (hopefully skipping Gohdan; if that doesn't work I'll have to beat Gohdan and see if the game doesn't dead-end afterward), try to skip Molgera altogether (will be surprised if this works at all). I want to exhaust every possibility of this.

Also, I want to try to get all pieces of the Triforce before even having obtained Ballad of Gales. That way the warp to Hyrule might possibly appear before Tower of the Gods does.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:15:49 AM by Yashichidsf »
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Offline Moon

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 12:01:17 AM »
To get into Stonewatcher (SE of Greatfish) I had to get door storage from Windfall, sail to it, do some bomb boosts to get up, and then I jump slashed through the big stone head. Doing anything but jump slashing got me crushed every time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am currently trying to get the Triforce before getting the Bombs, Blue Pearl. (Great-fish cutscene will be done only to get the last Triforce peace)
So is this possible without bombs lets say for example with the Tingle Tuner?. (Always get crushed...)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 09:34:37 PM by Moon »

Offline Razor7581

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 01:33:37 PM »
To get into Stonewatcher (SE of Greatfish) I had to get door storage from Windfall, sail to it, do some bomb boosts to get up, and then I jump slashed through the big stone head. Doing anything but jump slashing got me crushed every time.
I found that it is much easier to take advantage of the door storage, by using it to run part-way up the trees and then using the deku leaf to get up the ledges. This seems to rule out the timing required for bomb boosts when your screen is black.
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Offline Matti

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 04:25:49 PM »
Tried getting the master sword normally then getting the triforce then beating FF2 to get to Hyrule. This seems to dead end too (given our current tricks knowledge).

When you get to Hyrule it's hyrule 3. On entering the castle the electric barrier disabling cutscene plays (having done fights skip) which shows both electric barriers being removed. You can go through to the barrier without issue though the barrier breaking cutscene won't play (which is no surpirse as I'm fairly certain it's the cutscene where link leaves the master sword chamber after beating the dark nuts that enables the barrier being broken cutscene). On going back into the castle the electric barrier blocking the way to the barrier will be active again.

The issue with this instance of Hyrule is that the statue of the hero of time is closed. The triforce puzzle blocks are still sunk into the ground, though the statue is still closed and there doesn't seem to be a way to open it. Unless we find a new way to get into the loading zone for the master sword chamber it's another dead end The Wind Waker can add to it's collection.

Out of curiosity I tried going back to the overworld through the yellow light warp. The warp dissapears when you exit it back at the sea surface. What's really weird now is the overworld seems to be in a state which is a mixture of pre and post hyrule 2. FF2 is still FF2 (as opposed to FF3 without the enemies) but going through the loading zone to the Helmaroc boss room causes a crash (the room is no longer there to be loaded). On warping to Mother and Child, though, the pre hyrule 2 text appears, so you can't get the fire and ice arrows and it's therefore impossible, having done this route, to beat the Wind and Earth temple and see if the warp might open again.

EDIT:

Okay, so I used the mega jump cheat to get to the master sword chamber loading zone; the result was pretty much identicle to what happened in your video Yashi. Zelda's there, get the mighty dark nut cutscene and then when you try to exit the chamber for the first time you get the weird half hyrule 2 cutscene. The only (though interesting) difference was then when leaving the chamber the second time there was still no initial cutscene, though running to the barrier entrance the electric barrier was still there and it dissapeared upon link coming into range of it's disabling trigger. Also, when leaving hyrule this time, the fire/ice arrows cutscene will play.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 05:54:39 PM by Matti »

Offline Abahbob

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 11:07:58 PM »
I tested triforce before Hyrule 1 and triforce before Hyrule 2 ages ago. Also, on J it may be possible to skip fire and ice arrows, but TAS only. As has been said before, the things needed for the barrier to break are:
Full MS
Triforce
Electric Barriers down CS
Mighty Darknut fight.

So you still need the Full MS. You can get up to Hyrule 3 normally, hack the Full MS to anything else, and you won't be able to break it.

Offline Matti

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2013, 09:19:47 AM »
Just finished up this route by beating the Earth and Wind temples after comeing back from Hyrule 2.5. Once you've done this the 3rd warp will appear, but you still can't break the barrier. Seems like the "running up to the electric barrier" cutscene will only play after you first beat the Darknuts and if the Hyrule 2 master sword chamber cutscene doesn't want to play (i.e. if you actually play the game in the right order).

Offline TrogWW

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2014, 12:06:02 PM »
I think we need to look over the flags for the barrier again.
Entering Hyrule 2 normally, then enabling full Triforce (with cheats) allows me to fight the Dark Nuts and beat the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYZH1GddImU&feature=youtu.be

Full MS and full Triforce are NOT requirements to break the barrier. The only flag (I believe) is that the cutscene of Link running up to Hyrule exterior after the Dark Nut fight is triggered.
The flags for that cs (I believe) are:

   Electric barriers enabled in hyrule 1
   Full Triforce.
   Dark Nuts dead.
   Link statue open.

Therefore, full Triforce is always required. But in my video I show that even when disabled with cheats the cutscene still plays.
What makes this potentially significant is that the full Master Sword is not required.
The problem is having the statue open.
This needs to be looked at more in depth. If there is a way to enter Hyrule interior with the statue open and full Triforce then I believe barrier break early is possible.


Also strangely, I can leave Hyrule and reenter if I obtain the full Master Sword. Then for some reason when I reenter Hyrule the barrier has already been broken.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 12:15:36 PM by TrogWW »

Offline wooferzfg1

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2014, 04:20:02 PM »
We've done some research and come to the conclusion that the only trigger for breaking the barrier is watching the cutscene with Link running towards the electrical barriers along with these barriers disappearing. However, we think this cutscene triggering depends on a set of flags:

Hyrule 1's electrical barrier disappearing cutscene must play (this cutscene can play in Hyrule 2 if it is delayed by doing Hyrule fight skip). This cutscene is triggered by pulling the Master Sword and then defeating all of the enemies (or the game checking in Hyrule 2 and finding out that they are gone).

In Hyrule 2, the cutscene in the courtyard playing along with the Tetra turning into Zelda cutscene must play.

In Hyrule 3, the Mighty Dark Nuts must be defeated.

Interestingly enough, the flags that are used for Hyrule 2 are the same flags that are used for advancing the game past FF2 (spawning Medli at Dragon Roost and allowing Link to obtain the Fire and Ice Arrows). Beating FF2 does not actually trigger these things.

Here's an FAQ made by Ace on all this new barrier stuff: http://pastebin.com/EX3m5hfB
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 03:48:11 AM by wooferzfg1 »

Offline Razor7581

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 07:52:36 AM »
Here's an FAQ made by Ace on all this new barrier stuff: http://pastebin.com/EX3m5hfB
I have one more question since it's been a long time since I've messed with this. Completing the triforce doesn't open up the portal to hyrule, does it?
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Offline wooferzfg1

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2014, 09:52:13 AM »
I have one more question since it's been a long time since I've messed with this. Completing the triforce doesn't open up the portal to hyrule, does it?

Opening the portal to Hyrule requires beating Wind Temple, not just having the Triforce. This is because the Triforce can be obtained before beating Wind Temple in a casual playthrough (by leaving the temple after getting Hookshot)

Offline wooferzfg1

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2014, 03:35:47 PM »
CryZe found the flags for all of the Hyrule events using memory addresses (like Cosmo), so now we know for sure what the barrier triggers are.

Flag for breaking barrier:
- Watch the Link running to the electrical barriers cutscene in Hyrule 3
 
Flags for cutscene with Link running to the electrical barriers in Hyrule 3:
- Pull the Master Sword
- Watch the Courtyard cutscene in Hyrule 2
- Trigger the Tetra transforming into Zelda cutscene
- Defeat the Mighty Darknuts

Also, it is very interesting to note that the flag of entering the Helmaroc cutscene at FF2 actually determines whether or not most cutscenes will crash. For example, the Delivery Bag Cutscene crashes if the flag for entering Helmaroc has been triggered, and Puppet Ganon and the cutscene for breaking the barrier will crash if entering Helmaroc has not been triggered.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 05:15:28 PM by wooferzfg1 »

Offline CryZe

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Re: Early Triforce + Early Master Sword
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 07:36:41 AM »
The triggers for the Cutscene which warps you to Hyrule 3 after getting the triforce shards are:
- Have a fully charged Master Sword
- Have all Triforce Shards
- Watched the Tetra to Zelda Transformation Cutscene
(- Watched the FF2 Helmaroc Cutscene to prevent crash)

Neither Wind Temple, Earth Temple nor any of the songs are checked though.