Author Topic: Any% Segmented  (Read 14464 times)

Offline TLoZSR

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Any% Segmented
« on: October 07, 2012, 02:06:10 PM »
Hey guys, I decided that I wanted to take up the daunting task of segmenting this game. I really want something to play on the days I can't do rta. So, I wrote up a route, it's still a little rough, but feel free to check it out and give me some input on it. I plan on starting up within the next week, I'll keep this thread updated on my progress.

Here's the link to my route. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tLIIPrqbUJkBVJ4tqz7N0urpE5iZ-xC5kFHxLhnulRU/edit

Thanks :)

Playlist

Segment 1 - 1:18
Segment 2 - 1:42
Segment 3 - 3:09
Segment 4 - 3:50
Segment 5 - 2:14

Total time: 0:12:13
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 07:43:10 PM by TLoZSR »

Offline PurpleSunDeryl

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 08:00:11 AM »
Segmented...not a bad idea.  :)
<PurpleSunDeryl> Keep practicing, then you'll remember the game like the back of your end.

Offline Kazooie

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 08:56:33 AM »
GO FOR IT!!!! This game needs a speedrun finally! I'll follow this for sure and give you feedback! Don't quit! :D
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Offline Nook

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 09:27:23 AM »
GO FOR IT!!!! This game needs a speedrun finally! I'll follow this for sure and give you feedback! Don't quit! :D
People including TLoZSR speedrun it almost every day day on twitch :). Also what might be cool as a future project would be a team segmented.

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 01:08:05 PM »
Thanks for the support guys! There's a few people currently running this game, the biggest of which are me and testrunner. We have both been doing any% rta, on Japanese. I've been running this game for about 8 months now, so obviously I don't plan on giving up. I just got my quality test on sda cleared, so I might start up tonight.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:42:26 PM by TLoZSR »

Offline Nook

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 03:08:59 PM »
I assume you be you using the Japanese disc?

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 06:42:02 PM »
lol, autocorrect is awful, I edited my last post to make it readable.

Now, yes, I am going to be doing this run on japanese, not really sure of a goal time, I don't know how far this game can be pushed. It will be cool to find out.

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 04:08:53 PM »
hey guys, so last night I started, the first couple segments are like a minute long, so I got those two done up pretty quickly.

Segment 1 - 1:18
Segment 2 - 1:34

Offline fourtoe

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2012, 12:17:03 AM »
First two segments are pretty slick. I was just thinking the other day that all the Zelda SRs I've been watching are single segment. I like those because of the commentary but I like precision of segmented SRs. You don't think you can get a lot shorter time than Para's SS?

I might just try and do a 100% segmented if I ever get the hardware to record it properly...

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2012, 06:08:38 AM »
First two segments are pretty slick. I was just thinking the other day that all the Zelda SRs I've been watching are single segment. I like those because of the commentary but I like precision of segmented SRs. You don't think you can get a lot shorter time than Para's SS?

I might just try and do a 100% segmented if I ever get the hardware to record it properly...

The thing with single segment is that a lot more people enjoy them, because they tend to show off the overall skill of the player much better than a segmented run. Now, I'm not really sure how much time can be taken off of this run just from little stuff, with a run this long, a little more optimization goes a really long ways. 100% would be interesting, you should check out twitch.tv/indykenobi He does (did) 100% rta. He's been gone for a few weeks though :(

Offline Kazooie

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 10:08:14 AM »
I have been always wondering is it really faster to jump off from the bridge? I mean if you run past left side of the bridge and them jump down to ledge there and then jump off to void. That would mean you don't need to run up stairs and then jump off. I don't really know if it's faster but have anyone noticed it, you can make link respawn to other side by just jumping from left side of stairs?
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Offline fourtoe

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 07:49:22 PM »
The thing with single segment is that a lot more people enjoy them, because they tend to show off the overall skill of the player much better than a segmented run. Now, I'm not really sure how much time can be taken off of this run just from little stuff, with a run this long, a little more optimization goes a really long ways. 100% would be interesting, you should check out twitch.tv/indykenobi He does (did) 100% rta. He's been gone for a few weeks though :(
Yeah I've watched all of those. His route seems perfect, too. He was also a great player but randomly sucked at the pumpkin walking game :P

Looking at your route made me realize that I can't just use the one used by Indy, cause I can use saves and the BiT warps back to Skyloft as well. I can also probably speed up the rupee collecting, too.

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2012, 07:29:38 PM »
@Kazooie, I didn't know that, but I timed it out, and it's still a little slower, it takes a while to actually jump down there.

I just found a problem with my original segment 2, I actually screwed up and didn't do the BiTSave after the corrupt file making, so I re-did segment 2, and I'll get it uploaded soonish.

Offline Kazooie

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2012, 07:14:49 AM »
Okay, you are right about that it is slow to jump down there and might be slower because of that. Can't wait to see more segments! Keep up to good work!
My stream and youtube channel. Be sure to check them out and leave comments. Have fun!!!
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Currently working on: DKC3 105% segmented speedrun and racing games

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2012, 08:51:10 PM »
Re-did segment 2 to fix issues I had with the last one. I've already got segment 3 finished, I'll probably have that uploaded tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtLzDN3xgG0

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 09:10:25 AM »
I hope no one has a problem with double posting...

I got segment 3 uploaded to youtube, still working on segment 4, as it's longer and has some luck involved.

Segment 3 - 3:09

Offline Kazooie

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 01:41:11 PM »
Great segment. I didn't see any relevant mistakes in it. Keep it up!
My stream and youtube channel. Be sure to check them out and leave comments. Have fun!!!
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Currently working on: DKC3 105% segmented speedrun and racing games

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 09:03:43 PM »
Great segment. I didn't see any relevant mistakes in it. Keep it up!

Thanks! :) Segment 4 is proving to be a challenge, the race is really difficult to get a good time on. Also my capture card ended up breaking over the weekend, just got a replacement, so I've started working on this again.

Offline fourtoe

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2012, 06:13:57 PM »
If you don't mind TLoZSR, I'm gonna use your google.docs route as a template for a segmented 100% speed run. I think it's doable and the save warping can definitely shorten a lot of parts.

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2012, 09:17:31 AM »
If you don't mind TLoZSR, I'm gonna use your google.docs route as a template for a segmented 100% speed run. I think it's doable and the save warping can definitely shorten a lot of parts.

Go for it! Keep in mind though that that isn't completely correct, I've already split segment 2 on the route into 2 segments. But anyways, good luck!

I've been running RTA this weekend, but I'll get back to segmented today probably, hope to crunch out this 4th segment :)

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2012, 08:27:43 PM »
Having a ton of trouble getting a good sailcloth race, it's so much rng, don't worry though, I'm still working on it :)

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2012, 07:42:53 PM »
Triple post incoming!

Anyhow, I finished segment 4, and segment 5. Next segment we make it to the surface :D
Sorry for the long wait, I was busy with RTA, and segment 4 was a bitch to get.

Segment 4 - 3:50
Segment 5 - 2:14

Offline i_turo

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2012, 05:50:07 AM »
Hey TLo!

I have been following the Skyward Sword forums for a very long time now and I also practice speedrunning the game casually myself,
but I never registered because I had nothing really constructive to say :(.
I thought that I could give you some feedback for your segmented any%run, so I created an account and here it is:

In general you always maximize out the stamina meter and your text is also really fast.
(Just that I don't have to say it for every single segment again =))

Segment 1)
You did really quick rolls and I like your strategy for running up the box. (first looking back and then start running)
The only thing that is improvable is the angle of your jumps. You can go far more diagonal here to save some way.

Segment 2)
Your stamina use at the killing post was amazing, but I just feel that you didn't use the optimal strategy here.
(Maybe you could run up at the right side of the pillar and the jump down instead of running around it and run up from the backside)
In Bit the first B press was unnecessary, you could have simply held A instead.
Also the save selection with the pointer looks a little slow, I think using the control stick simply looks more professional. XD
But on the other side your deleting timing was really at the limit. Good job!

Segment 3)
Definitively nothing to criticize. (Maybe you could have Z + A jumped over the fence next to the instructor)
I have to point out your awesome stamina strats and a very good jump angle in the cave.

Just a question: How do you exit the goddess statue without z-targeting? Because I always z-target to align with the exit and then turn around.

Segment 4)
Like you said this segment is so much RNG.
(So not maximizing out the stamina at the rolls is acceptable XD)
Also pulling out the sailcloth at the last frames looks pretty cool.

Segment 5)
Again selecting the Start-button with the control stick looks faster.
Really cool strat in the goddess statue(the second roll after skyward strike), I will definitively use this in my next runs.

Don't you lose time with not splitting up this segment? (Sorry, I have no idea of segmented timing)

All in all your run is great so far and I hope you will not give up and finish this amazing project with segments of the same gameplay quality
as the first 5!


Maybe you could add a detailed description of the used glitches(for example Bit) under your youtube videos, so that people, who don't know speedrunning skyward sword still understand what you are doing.

Hopefully I can catch your stream once =)! (I'm from Europe, so the timezones don't really match :S)

PS: Are you planning to use the puzzle skip? :D (I know it's slower, but just for entertainment?)

(Sorry for my bad English, but I try my best and hope that you can understand it)

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 02:07:22 PM »
Hey i_turo!
Thanks for the response. Let me go over what you said segment by segment:

Segment 1:
-I'm sure I could save time with more optimal jumps, but it's really not that huge of a deal.

Segment 2:
-I've actually tried different strats for the killing post (my favorite was running up the right side, then sidehopping off. Unfortunately that didn't give you enough height to be damaged) I have done running up the right side and off on accident, and what happens is that you hit the ground further away from the vines. Running to the back side of the post takes a fraction of a second longer, and it lines you up with the vines better. Although now that I think of it, I could have went up the right side for the last jump. Oh well, what's done is done :\

-If you run around with the file select open, the game tends to lag in areas, which is obviously not what I want happening, in general, it's a good idea to not have the file select dialog open while running around in BiT. Plus, the B press didn't cost any time :)

-Save selection with the pointer. It's more of a personal thing regarding what method you use for BiTSaving, I prefer to hit start with the pointer, because you already have to use the pointer for save, and when you hit save, it actually creates lag that's difficult for use the analog stick with. Either method is good, but I prefer to point at it for some reason.

-My deleting was pretty amazing here :)

Segment 3:

-I have seen some people do a hop over that little ledge, but I suck at it, and it's easier to get a roll right away if you don't.

-After the cutscenes after getting the sword, just hold straight down on the analog stick, you should run straight out

Segment 4:

-I almost missed that sailcloth here, I was so scared xD

Segment 5:

-I don't think you actually lose time without splitting this segment, and here's why:
----Segmented timing for each segment starts when you hit start on the file select. It ends when you hit save. Now, if I were to split this into 2 segments, I'd have to start timing as soon as I started the file, so basically, that time is already including in this segment too. And I just didn't want to have 2 really short dumb segments in there.

Puzzle Skip:

-This may be the most awful trick in this game, it took me 2-3 hours of straight attempts to get it, so it's really hard, and it doesn't save time, so no, it won't be used. The goal of my run is to be as fast as possible, entertainment is a secondary goal :)

I tend to stream pretty late for U.S. streamers, you may be able to catch me sometime. I'm on the west coast of the U.S. which I think it -8 hours to CET

Thanks for the reply again, and don't worry about your english, it's better than a lot of native speakers :)

Offline i_turo

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 03:05:19 PM »
Hey tlo! It's me again!

Thanks for the goddess statue strat! It works perfect now! :)

I didn't know that the lags in BiT are caused by the open file selection screen and by using the control stick to navigate. So using the pointer is definitively the better way for a segmented speed run.

This time I will tell you my strats / ideas before you have finished the segment XD.
I'm sure you know most(if not all) of those, but anyway here are my very little tricks you don't use in your WR RTA:

*) You should jumpslash into the spike and the kikwi rescuing cutscene because you can start charging the skyward strike immediately afterwards.

*) You should jump / jumpslash(or maybe even high jumpslash) into into the air streams to save some travel up distance.

*) I think rolling into the door cutscene is only faster if you do it perfect because the trigger zone extends to exactly one roll away from the door.

*) After the slope you can take the perfect route(like running into the pillar on the left) because the cutscene trigger extends to the very left of the doorway and will trigger before you actually crash with the pillar.

*) Last and most important:
I would do it like Parax, save at the Gorko statue.
The reason is simple: If you roll into the first mushroom and than save + quit you have to roll into the same mushroom again.
(This happened to me back in December when I was learning the route with replaying and splitting up Parax's test run segments)
And saving at Gorko takes less time than running to the statue and then to the mushroom.


Let's see what you can do with this segment :) !
I'm looking forward to see it! Good Luck!

Offline fourtoe

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2012, 08:19:38 PM »
I only just saw Indy's SS Any% that has the AC trick. Then I realized that that trick is probably why this run hasn't updated. Sorry guy! I say you should still do it...if it is the case that the AC sequence break is what has halted your run (or is the main reason why you've stopped doing it for now).

Offline TLoZSR

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Re: Any% Segmented
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2012, 11:13:42 PM »
I only just saw Indy's SS Any% that has the AC trick. Then I realized that that trick is probably why this run hasn't updated. Sorry guy! I say you should still do it...if it is the case that the AC sequence break is what has halted your run (or is the main reason why you've stopped doing it for now).

Hey fourtoe,

Don't worry, I still plan on finishing this run, the new clip definitely shook things up a little, then I ended up doing a lot of marathon prep for sandython, but I'm gonna start getting up some more segments soon :)